First Vietnam.. .then Iraq. Will there be a Third Time?

[baby_mouse]

I suppose I felt, growing up long after Vietnam was over and done with, that the lessons learned from it had sunk into the American psyche from the ground level up. I grew up in the 80s with the deep-seated feeling that we had DONE all that stuff with WWII and so on and it was time to grow up now, and for things to get better. What illusions can be sustained about warfare in front of that black wall?

Will it happen again? Will the US populace let some new reincarnation of Johnson or the Neocons wave flags at them, returning when the chips fall right to cast themselves as saviours of America?

[baby_mouse]

1. I'm suprised.

And disturbed.

I thought "Never again" would do quite well.

[drm604]

2. People believed that after Vietnam

and they were wrong. It's hard not to be cynical.

[baby_mouse]

6. Perhaps agressive optimism would prove to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. nt

[drm604]

15. Half the damned country didn't learn the lesson from Vietnam.

All the optimism in the world from the rest of us wouldn't have made a difference.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Probably.

This is why I'm in favor of impeachment.

This talk of "revenge" is bullshit. Noooo, it's not revenge. It's so it doesn't happen again.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

7. Damn right it's not revenge! It is about

accountability for felony crimes.

[baby_mouse]

19. I get that. NT

[iamahaingttta]

4. This IS the "Third Time."

You're forgetting about Korea.
The "war" that keeps on giving.
It's been going on for over 50 years now, and is still not "over."

Of course, these things have been happening now for thousands of years, and will keep happening until the species becomes extinct.

Get used to it, kiddo...

[baby_mouse]

8. "get used to it"? nt

[iamahaingttta]

21. Yes, baby_mouse...

...get used to human beings doing utterly stupid, horrible, violent things to each other and themselves. It's one of the constants throughout history, and it's not going to stop in your lifetime. If you want to be a reasonably healthy, happy and well adjusted individual, you MUST accept the fact that this is true, and do what you can to keep you and yours from falling victim to, or perpetrating the stupid, horrible and violent things that we are ALL capable of doing.

Sorry...

[Solon]

9. Fourth and fifth times...Spanish American war was based on lies itself...

And fueled the idea of "American Empire" post-Manifest Destiny. The Mexican-American war fueled Manifest Destiny itself. We seem to love fighting wars for Empire.

[Buck Rabbit]

12. Giving a pass on 1812?

That one seemed pretty elective to me..

Most of the "Indian Wars" ..

As for lies to make the case for War, Bush I and the babies thrown out of the incubators was a heart tugger...

[Solon]

13. Look at post 10. n/t

[Buck Rabbit]

16. Yes, I see that, Sorry it wasn't there when I started typing my post.

When you type with your nose it takes so long to respond, these things happen. Glad to see we agree.

[Solon]

18. The post you responded to was my "quick response" so to speak...

I immediately thought of the War Lincoln voted against(and cost him re-election), and our second major overseas adventure(Hawaii was technically first, but the Federal Government wasn't COMPLETELY responsible for that till later).

[benddem]

5. hey they are still

ginning up for a war with Iran. Cheney can taste the blood.

[Solon]

10. Vietnam wasn't first...

You could argue that the War of 1812 was first, both sides declared "victory" so to speak, during that conflict. Then there was the trumped up Mexican-American war, then the Constant "Indian wars" of the 19th century, then the Spanish-American War, which helped fuel the Modern Empire, then we fought many different, smaller wars, in Mexico and Central America, to keep our cash flow going. Next, skip over the World Wars, even Korea, straight to Vietnam, same shit, different excuse, and then onto Iraq, not once, but TWICE we fought a war there for BS reasons.

[baby_mouse]

11. Indeed. I was thinking more "in living memory"...

...assuming, perhaps naively, that living memory might prove useful for something.

[Solon]

14. Not really, nothing really changed since soon after the country was founded...

We are extremely Jingoistic, and will go to war with pretty much anyone at the drop of a hat.

[Doctor_J]

17. Read one of Michael Parenti's tomes

The Sword And The Dollar, or Against Empire. These are not accidents, or ill-conceived. They're nothing more than a way of moving money from working stiffs like us to the pockets of the ultra-rich. The American treasury is bankrupt, but Cheney's friends aren't.

[VOX]

20. As long as the military-industrial complex gets buddies in the White House, it'll happen...

Every now and then, these idiots get the idea that starting chaos somewhere in the world is obscenely profitable for them.

As long as that possibility is on the table, there will be additional quagmires, not to mention hundreds of thousands of lives lost. :grr:

[baldguy]

22. As long as America is a military power with few rivals

We will have freepers - and their equivalents - that will itch to use that power, and try to impose their will on a small part of the world.

Sometimes they'll even get elected.

[Disturbed]

24. The Colonization of Afghanistan isn't going real well

either.

[NNadir]

23. It may be that the United States will not be strong enough to screw up in this way.

Generally great powers fall from hubris. When was the last time Japan invaded someone?

I think the damage to US capabilities resulting from the worst President ever is probably irreversible.