"PAPER" for President - Dennis Kucinich's H.R. 6200 - autorank/"Scoop"

[autorank]

From: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0611/S00399.htm

The Time is NOW

By Michael Collins

“Scoop” Independent News
Washington, DC
The United States just endured another election that inspired more suspicion than confidence. Two years after the fiasco of Election 2004 in Ohio and elsewhere, four year years after the never investigated mystery of Georgia 2002, and six years after the disgrace of Florida which saw the loser of the popular vote (s)elected President by the Supreme Court; major problems pervade the US election system. The new problems created by computerized voting and tabulation merge with traditional race and class based election fraud in an assault on free, fair, transparent and inclusive elections.

The Democratic controlled House of Representatives may be 10 to 12 members shy on the left side of the aisle due to election irregularities. Jonathan Simon of the Election Defense Alliance just published a major paper demonstrating that as many as three million votes may be missing from the 2006 election. Problems of this sort were anticipated by internet poster TruthIsAll and this author in a three part series in “Scoop” which developed a vote fraud model that identified likely races for those photo finishes that always seem to put a Republican in office.

VotersUnite.Org produced a database of election irregularities from around the country. Ironically, the creator of the database was John Gideon who predicted many of the problems that he logged in the database. A short list of problems with voting machines in2006 includes: vote switching from one candidate to another; candidate names simply disappearing from the touch screens; full or partial deletion of candidate names; and a simple failure of voting machines to operate.

The master foul-up occurred in Florida’s 13th Congressional District. More than 17,000 votes were simply lost. Ironically, this seat was just vacated by Katherine Harris, chief election official and Bush campaign chair during Florida’s 2000presidential election. That race and at least three others remain without a conclusive vote count. A further irony is that the election to replace Harris resulted in a very slim advantage for the Republican candidate with the 17,000 ballots removed from the equation.

Paper for President: House Resolution 6200

Representative Dennis Kucinich, D, Ohio introduced HR 6200 on September 27, 2006. His bill will “ amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to require States to conduct Presidential elections using paper ballots and to count those ballots by hand, and for other purposes.”

The main features of the bill include special rules for Presidential elections.

Presidential elections will be conducted entirely with paper ballots;

Each precinct will include no more than 500 paper ballots per ballot box;

Paper ballots will be counted by hand in the precincts where voting takes place and vote counting will be witnessed by a representative of each political party withal candidate on the ballot “as well as any interested member of the public.”

</ul

HR 6200 takes the logical step of moving Washington’s Birthday
celebration to election day during presidential election years
making it easier for working people to vote.

If passed, the bill takes effect in time for the November 2008
Presidential election.


Rep. Kucinich announced HR 6200 at the
9/06 “We Count” Conference in Cleveland

The Only Viable Alternative for Balloting: A Clear Public Consensus

A Zogby Pollof 1018 likely voters in August 2006 found that 60% are aware of the problems posed by electronic voting, 80% oppose private vendors keeping the operation of their electronic voting devices a trade secret, and 92% support the right of the public to watch vote counting. Other surveys, online and by phone, show that public confidence in US elections is below50%.

Governor, Ohio, 2006

Democrat Ted Strickland crushed former Republican
Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell in the race for
Governor but voting problems remain in Ohio and around
the country (from CNN).

Rep. Kucinich has first hand experience with the devastating problems caused by election irregularities and fraud. He represents a large part of Cleveland Ohio, the scene of massive voter suppression, voting machine problems, and electronic tabulation irregularities in 2004. While Blackwell, the author of many of those problems, was ejected from the political scene after his humiliating defeat in the race for governor, many problems remain that subvert public confidence and deny citizen rights

The most fundamental election system problems are the total absence of anything resembling a ballot and secret voting and vote counting, all of which characterize touch screen voting systems.

Paper balloting has the 85% consistently vote to cease electronic voting of all kinds.

The Kucinich bill currently has 20 cosponsors. It is one smoking gun election fraud scandall away from passage by acclamation given the current distrust of everything electronic and computerized in our electoral system. Hand counted paper ballots do not address two other vipers at the throat of US democracy, race and class based voter suppression and private funding of political campaigns. These twin threats to democracy must be addressed as well. However, hand counted paper ballots for presidential elections will provide greater assurance for those who vote that their vote was taken correctly and counted openly in front of witnesses from the political parties and the general public. Under the Kucinich bill, any US citizen reading this article can request and be granted the right to witness vote counting. It’s about time!

END

More information on hand counted paper ballots at Count Every Vote.

Appendix:
House Resolution 6200, Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D, Ohio
109th CONGRESS
2d Session
H. R. 6200
(here or here])

To amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to require States to conduct Presidential elections using paper ballots and to count those ballots by hand, and for other purposes.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
September 27, 2006
---------------------------------------
A BILL

To amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to require States to conduct Presidential elections using paper ballots and to count those by hand, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the Paper Ballot Act of 2006'.

SEC. 2. REQUIRING USE OF HAND-COUNTED PAPER BALLOTS IN
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS.

Section 301(a) of the Help America Vote Act of
2002 (42 U.S.C. 15481(a)) is amended by adding at the end the
following new paragraph:

`(7) SPECIAL RULES FOR PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS-
Notwithstanding any other provision of this subsection, in the
case of a regularly scheduled general election for the
electors of President and Vice President (beginning with the
election in November 2008), the following rules shall apply:

`(A) The State shall conduct the election using
only paper ballots

`(B) The State shall ensure that the number of ballots cast
at a precinct or equivalent location which are placed inside a
single box or similar container does not exceed 500.

`(C) The ballots cast at a precinct or equivalent location
shall be counted by hand by election officials at the
precinct, and a representative of each political party with a
candidate on the ballot, as well as any interested member of
the public, may observe the officials as they count the
ballots. The previous sentence shall not apply with respect to
provisional ballots cast under section 302(a).'.

SEC. 3. MOVING OBSERVATION OF WASHINGTON'S BIRTHDAY TO
ELECTION DAY DURING PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEARS.

Section 6103(a) of title 5, United States Code,
is amended—

(1) by inserting ‘the Tuesday next after the first
Monday in November in 2008 and every four years thereafter,
and after ‘Washington’s Birthday,’

and

(2) by inserting ‘in any other year’ after
‘February’.

*************

©Copyright. Please feel free to reproduce and distribute this in any fashion you feel suitable with an attribution of authorship and the publisher, “Scoop” Independent News, plus a link to the article.

From:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0611/S00399.htm

[EFerrari]

1. K&R! Go, Dennis!

:kick:
:kick:
:kick:

[stevedeshazer]

2. Meant for autorank

:)

[autorank]

4. I am that man;) Bon nuit...

[EFerrari]

24. Whatever you said, I agree.

:)

[stevedeshazer]

3. Awesome work

K & R

[autorank]

5. Gracias Senor!!!

[kster]

6. This just keeps

getting better and better, What will the debates be against this? Great work Auto.... :yourock:

[autorank]

23. Hey buddy...this is the best. Dennis Kucinich was on fire in Cleveland

at "We Count" (Sept 30)when he introduced this. I think he hangs back, watches them mess with the alternatives and, when a few big scandals emerge, he and this bill are in the right place. They'll pass it just to punish the officials who've screwed things up so badly.

[galloglas]

49. Debates against this??

Hi Kster,

You wrote: "What will the debates be against this?"

Besides the whining of "It takes tooooo much time!" from the local BoEs (as we sit here with races still undecided after two weeks!), who is to argue??

Who can debate the arguments against HCPBs?? The idiot GOP reps claiming, "It would be toooo complicated??", as if only computers, and not humans, can count high enough??

I hope to God they televise the arguments against it (or Congressional hearings, as may be) just so we can see how preposterous the arguments are!

Any arguments for the invariably and inevitably fallible machines versus the simplicity of Hand Counted Paper Ballots could be demolished, singlehandedly, by any reasonable competent middle school Civics or math teacher. In fact, those teachers could probably delegate the task to their classes.

It is insane to argue for machines in elections, given the record. And the kids in those middle school classes would be the first to point out the obvious. That, electorally, the "Emperor has no clothes!"

In so doing, they would teach us adults a lesson. There ARE no clothes, and there ARE no reasons not to use HCPBs!

[Jcrowley]

7. K & R n/t

[nicknameless]

8. I'd like to see HCPB for Senate, House and Secretary of State offices.

At the minimum.

[autorank]

10. Ola!

Oh, boy, big fight in the Rank household just as I'm answering you...spouse just asked, "What would you think of a Hillary Obama ticket?" -- fireworks;) Nice way to start some time off. The correct question is "What would you think of a Gore - Clark ticket?" When I'm out of solitary, I'll raise the point.

Dennis is just a little ahead of his time and I think he's positioned to get this passed. There will be some serious findings from Conyers committee and the uninformed but powerful will freak out like they did just before 2006 (Pelosi and Hoyer's last minute efforts for emergency paper ballots and changes in election contest rules). It makes perfect sense. Can you imagine the SoS folks complaining? Can you imagine the "who cares what you think" from everyone else? How do you spell "p u b l i c s e r v a n t ?"

It's time!!!

[nicknameless]

14. Ruh-roh.

Hillary - Obama? How can you relax when your blood pressure is soaring like that? ;)
How about Gore - Edwards?

Yes. If the truth about these election-rigging devices ever comes to light, the uproar will be deafening.

It's about time these public servants were forced to comply with the law.
And can we reverse those last nine raises Congress gave itself?

[autorank]

22. Gore-Edwards...sweet!

The boss would go for that. We both went to see Gore at Constitution Hall in DC on 1/16/06. He rocked the house, 8-12 standing ovations, the man was masterful. We were sitting next to a right wing weenie reporter and his 'cubs.' They never stood during the many ovations. Wife did not know who he was. Thinking he was just a lazy guy, she looked down at him (he's meek) and said, "What's your problem, get up and cheer." :rofl: He was stunned that anyone would apeak to him that way. He left right after that. I'd take the boss 10 to 1 odds, TKO in the first. Apparently winger thought so too. When they can't lock you up and have others torture you, they're really not so tough;)

[nicknameless]

25. I remember your great OP about that event.

Hadn’t heard about the reich-winger, though.
I’d happily put money on your wife decking the guy. :)
Yep. Bullies are cowards.

[Gelliebeans]

9. K&R

:kick:

[msongs]

11. muy bueno, mr kucinich, but will it pass? I know our county will hate it since

here in Riverside county CA they are STILL counting absentee votes for the first time, not considering any recounts yet.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[autorank]

21. His bill makes much mor sense than the alternative.

The alternative has language on paper trails for inherently corruptable voting machines and audit criteria which may or may not be accepted by states and courts.

Why not make the voting, counting and auditing real easy - modern paper ballots, which can be counted in a real hurry.

Thanks for you comments. Hope they get hip to the new deal out there. It is about time!

[puebloknot]

12. Blame Canada...

...for the inspiration for this bill. They use paper ballots, hand count them, and the deal is done in short order.

Thanks for this article. Little ray of hope here.

[autorank]

18. Did you hear ... Canada changed it's national anthem...

After they eased up the laws on certain plants, they changed the opening lines from

"Oh Canada" to "Wow Canada" ... subtle but meaingful differnece;)

Canada and England...other places as well.

Why waste time putting "lipstick on a pig" with "paper trails" for voting machines that stink up
the place...pointless.

Back to basics, HAND COUNTED PAPER BALLOTS + public financing (no private money) and no race / class
based voter suppression. They we're totally covered.

:hi:

[Ellipsis]

13. One last encore I see before your departure...

and House Resolution 6200 is a good one to go out on. ...and may I say "Paper for President" has a nice ring to it.


Now scoot, and take that well deserved vacation.

:toast:

K&R

[autorank]

17. I'm on my way but I think so highly of Dennis K, I'm expressing THANKS!!1

:toast:

[understandinglife]

15. "NOT ONE LINE OF SOFTWARE BETWEEN A VOTER AND A VALID ELECTION."

Recommended.

Thank you Mike,

Bob


BE AMERICA. --- [/b

[autorank]

16. Don't you just love that snip from electoin night Blackwell-Strickland

What an ass kicking Strickland handed out. Blackwell thought he was God, thought he could stand elections on their head (Special measures, 11/05 where he refersed amost exactly lose to win margins of 60% - 30% to 30% - 60% and nobody peeped, except us;

Oh how mighty they thought they were and how weak they are in the face of real opposition.

IT'S ABOUT TIME, wouldn't you say.

Great holiday to you and everybody!!!

[understandinglife]

20. "Oh how mighty they thought they were and how weak they are in the face of real opposition."

That is the real lesson of 7 November 2006, as well you know Mike.

Hell, you wrote the sentence!! :thumbsup:

The only folk in denial are the beltway pundit cocktail weenie crowd and the media whores (gender-neutral semantics) who service them.

[Swamp Rat]

19. k&r

:kick:

[Swamp Rat]

48. kick

[Peace Patriot]

26. We have bipartisan entrenched corruption involving billions of dollars in

electronic voting contracts, dispensed by Congresscritters through the fingers of local/state election officials and legislators into the pockets of Bushite corporation--a "perfect storm" of boondoggle politics.

I don't think HR 6200 can survive it, especially with Diane "You too can learn to love the Corporate Rulers" Feinstein heading the Senate committee on elections.

I think we need a a backup strategy. I noticed the huge increase in Absentee Ballot voting all over the country (it was 50% over the entire state of California). This was a protest--a boycott of the machines--with the voters trying to find a way around the rigged electronics. It shows that we've done our job in one respect. Word is getting out, big time. But have not proposed a STRATEGY to achieve transparent vote counting aside from Congressional action (which will likely result in a weak, loophole-filled bill, or may get blocked altogether). My proposal is to focus and mobilize this huge constituency of Absentee Ballot voters to pressure local/state election officials, to, a) HAND COUNT the Absentee Ballots, and b) POST the results BEFORE any electronics are involved. These simple, common sense demands--what the AB voters clearly want--are doable. We will thus have started to create a paper ballot system BY DEFAULT. Then it will snowball--for instance, optiscan voters will start demanding that their votes be hand counted prior to electronic entry or tabulation. And voters in states that don't permit AB voting will demand that option.

This strategy circumvents all the corruption. The idiots who bought into this crapass technology--spending millions of taxpayer dollars on it, and thus being defensive about their foolishness and corruption--can keep their shiny new machines for the time being, and use them for mere double-checking of the hand counts and reporting/storing results. We avoid a head-on collision with the powerful electronic voting corporations and their lapdogs.

I don't know how we will solve the problem of human personnel to hand count the votes. If my region is any indication, election officials are downsizing the human element, eliminating poll workers, reducing the number of precincts, and centralizing many functions, as all funds get sucked up by the corporate vacuum cleaners. Dennis Kucinich's bill needs to appropriate funds for paying and organizing hand counters (just as jurors are paid--a pittance, yet, but still it helps to democratize the juror pool). Funds for separating the presidential and other votes will also be needed. The bill will otherwise develop resistance as an unfunded mandate. The bad guys thought nothing of pouring $3.9 billion into the pockets of the Bush Cartel's cronies at Diebold and ES&S. We can surely afford some funds as an incentive to go the other way.

Although there will likely be willing volunteers in many places, in some places there may not be. With the Absentee Ballot strategy, organized groups of Absentee Ballot voters could lobby their states for some funds for hand counting. I'm sure counties are going to cry poor--a bad joke, really, after their profligate spending on the election theft machines--but they will likely do it, and present resistance both for this idea and for HR 6200, if their impoverishment by the e-voting corporations is not solved.

In both cases--HR 6200, and the Absentee Ballot strategy--the popularity of the idea among voters could overcome election theft industry resistance, and produce funding solutions, but we had better think of it now, as we are trying to promote these ideas.

[autorank]

27. Your influence resonated across the blog oh sphere

You know Peace, you were the first or one of the first to enunciate the absentee strategy.

It happened. The public is very hip to all of this and they have a natural cynicism that
serves them well in these matters.

The idea of a constituency of absentee voters is just great. Why not!

In my state, you actually need a reason to vote absentee. We are blithly backward in many
election areas, althought things may bet better. Webb must know that he pated Allen by 5-6
points. He'll not forget.

AAV - Association of Absentee Voters (not to be confused with AAMV - Assn. of Absented Minded Voters)

[nofurylike]

59. you raised widespread consciousness on this, Peace Patriot. i

feel certain that, IF UNITED on this, we can get this passed, regardless the Resistance to it.

it is our having been divided of purpose that ran out the clock on this, every time, so far. there is NO better solution, though i feel there is cause for expanding what is in the bill at this stage. and where HCPB system is implemented, it enhances and increases public involvement in election. that involvement is necessary for other reasons too, including to witness and battle attempts at disenfranchisement, which can not really be accomplished by absentee-only/all-mail options.

on-site witnessed counts...

i feel we must make this happen; must not be divided of purpose again.
(same goes for many other causes now...)

thank you for all you have done and all you do! i believe you reach far out there, and that is what we need most of all!
to be continued...


peace and solidarity!

[nofurylike]

28. YES! yes yes yes yes yes!! thank you for posting this, autorank! nt

[autorank]

36. My pleasure!

I'm that other guy Collins too;)

Isn't this great. Dennis is playing chess. They'll go through a period of trying to get paper trails
out of the touch screens. Then it will be obvious that garbage out is what paper trails are because the "garbage in" is the computer program that can hand you a receipt that says Kerry and tabulate a vote for Bush (seems I heard about that happening). When that fails, Dennis has the goods - make them use Paper for President and they'll be stuck - do we use paper for everything or have a dual system? Paper ballot systems available now are extremely efficient and can be counted quickly. We just look at how England does it or at viable solutions offered here by people developing paper ballot systems.

Kucinich has positioned the interests of the people in a very advantageous way.

[nofurylike]

58. hello and thank you 'both' ;) then! it IS GREAT!

i think paper for all elections, done the way brilliant dennis describes - such that all feel the count is fair. i am convinced it will also get people much more involved in elections and counts, and so, in serving, campaigns and governance. from what i've seen of other countries' paper-ballot systems, people stick around and gather to watch/witness the counting and it becomes an entire tradition. if we also make it a holiday of some form, i am certain more people will become actively involved. we've so dismal a turnout!

just another way it will be the best way, all round.

YAY Scoop! you've really been out there speaking Truth, thank you!!
and Dennis Kucinich! "Dennis is playing chess." yes. grin.
i wish it had been years ago - duh, who doesn't, ah? - but it is urgently necessary we unite and work for this to happen.

i so appreciate your posting such detail about it.

onward!


peace and solidarity, always!

[Rageneau]

29. We should pump Dennis full of steroids and testosterone.

If this streetfighting little guy looked more like Arnold, he could be president.

Too bad he lives in the era of TV and not print-only news.

[autorank]

37. He doesn't need any..at least when I saw him announce this.

He was pumped, controlled the crowd, got his mojo working - brought the crowd to a fever pitch and exited stage left. It was at "We Count", a regular conference for election fraud researchers and democracy advocates in Cleveland and other Ohio cities. These are Democrats who have seen "the horror."
Kucinich was honoring their efforts by announcing this in a big way at their conference. The place just erupted. Dennis may just pull it off and I'm sure he has a larger career. If people see him in person without some network weasel bad mouthing him, he comes across very well.

[In Truth We Trust]

30. K&R HCPB's NOW!

[Joe Chi Minh]

31. Great work, as usual, Auto!

I reckon most Americans with computers must come here, and/or go to the blogs of DU's stalwarts such as your good self, to find out what's happening. We'd be in a sad way without you. A news nucular winter!

[autorank]

38. We have a great leader in Dennis Kucinich.

Thanks for your kind words and they are returned to you for your great support.

Ironically, the "colonies" will be coming to Great Britain to see how hand counted paper ballots for
large elections work. You will be our teachers in this aspect of democracy very soon we hope.

[Joe Chi Minh]

44. He sure is, Mike. We could do with him leading a proper Labour

government here in the UK.

Thanks for your encouragement, too.

[Mnemosyne]

32. k and r! n/t

[autorank]

50. Hi vickiss;) Thanks!!! n/t

[Mnemosyne]

51. Have a nice vacation?

:hi:

[LWolf]

33. "Paper for President" is a go!

Interesting move with Washington's Bday. I guess we might have to call it something different than Bday; maybe election day is just "president's day?"

Still, a nifty way to give people the day off without adding another national holiday to the payroll.

In my state, all ballots are received a few weeks before the election and mailed in, so they are all paper and election day schedules don't interfere. They are counted by machines, though. I like the hand count.

[autorank]

39. Your point on mail in is well taken.

I like that system but who does the counting? It should all be by hand and witnessed.

That provision on "any" interested member of the public. Damn, that tells us that we own
the elections.

Kucinich has provided the legislative version of the Gettysburg address - seemingly sparse legislative
language that, the more you think of it, draws out extraordinary assumptions basic to our belief system and provides a vehicle for change. Just responding to posts to this thread has helped me understand even more the significance of this move by Kucinich.

Cheers!

[bear425]

34. k/r n/t

[bear425]

35. k/r n/t

[Annces]

40. Go Kucinich

He is old style, but in time.

[autorank]

52. He was hot the night he delivered this message in Cleveland.

But you are right, he is 'old style' in a positive sense of the word - populist, frank, passionate.

Good times coming!

[Me.]

41. K & R n/t

[cyclezealot]

42. go Dennis.

[plgoldsmith]

43. But first we have to defeat HR 550

which is being supported by Common Cause, of all groups. For more info see the following article:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_nancy_to_061118_stopping_h_r__550_be.htm

[autorank]

53. There's the Conyers Factor

Conyers will have hearings on election issues. Just before the election, he reissued his letter to the media consortium (letter from 2004) requesting the National Exit Poll raw data. Now I bet he subpoenas it. He'll have real whistle blowers in from a variety of voting concerns, I bet. We will get some heavy duty truth and HR550 will look like what it is, "Lipstick on a Pig." Besides, HR550 can pass then HR 6200, which would take it's place for presidential elections. Fun stuff. Keep the faith.

[althecat]

45. Autorank!!!

Damn that formatting is good..... :)

[autorank]

54. althecat!!!

It should, you did it;) ... except for my insert of paper. This sets a record for the fewest errors in an autorank OP (they're mine but very minor).

Thank you again for your support and I'm honored that this is now in American Coup on Scoop


American Coup 2006 News

[galloglas]

46. Suggestion for a wee change, and improvement??

Edit: lame spelling


Pelosi wants to start early... so why don't we?

Let's just dive straight to the heart of the matter (like a cardiac by-pass surgeon) with Kucinich, and save some time in Congress.


Change this part of HR 6200:


(7) SPECIAL RULES FOR PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS- Notwithstanding any other provision of this subsection, in the case of a regularly scheduled general election for the electors of President and Vice President (beginning with the election in November 2008), the following rules shall apply:

`(A) The State shall conduct the election using only paper ballots. :wow:

`(B) The State shall ensure that the number of ballots cast at a precinct or equivalent location which are placed inside a single box or similar container does not exceed 500.

`(C) The ballots cast at a precinct or equivalent location shall be counted by hand by election officials at the precinct, and a representative of each political party with a candidate on the ballot, as well as any interested member of the public, may observe the officials as they count the ballots. The previous sentence shall not apply with respect to provisional ballots cast under section 302(a).'.


:think: to read like this, instead??


(7) SPECIAL RULES FOR ALL ELECTIONS- Notwithstanding any other provision of this subsection,in the case of all regularly scheduled general elections, (beginning with the election in November 2008), the following rules shall apply:


Just a thought. Seems like it would save a few steps later on?

Y'know, to riff an improvement from the Neil Armstrong moon landing line,

"Let's not take one small step for one man's office, but one great leap for the electorate of America's imperiled democracy!"

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[autorank]

55. That's where we want to be bu tit takes away the "push back"

I see this as the Board of Elections reconciliation bill...telling them, do paper and whatever else you like but do paper for #1. They'll whine and cry. At that point, the response would be, fine, you don't like two systems, then go all paper. I'm over reading the implied strategy here but this might be the outcome of the presidential election only line. Events could overtake all of this and it may well be that your language would go in there pronto. It's a very nice piece of writing. Happy Dem Senator from MO day.

Cheers, mike

[galloglas]

56. Thank you, sir, and a Goodly Thanksgiving to you!

But be sure to go lightly with the Turkey Trytophans. They tend to make one nod off during exciting fourth quarters!

As a wee lad, I fell asleep and missed the famous ending of the USC-Wisconsin Rose Bowl of 1963.

That was the one where Ron Vander Kelen established a Rose Bowl single-game record for pass attempts (48), pass completions (33), and total yards passing (401), in a near-miracle, come from behind nearly-winning effort that left Vander Kelen and Wisconsin behind 42-37, as time ran out.

And I snored right through it. Damned turkeys!

[nofurylike]

60. well said. please write that to kucinich. it can be added on. eom

[mom cat]

47. This year I am giving thanks that TIA is alive and back in action,

that Dennis Kucinich, John Conyers, althecat, and Autorank ate raising hell! :headbang:

[autorank]

57. Conyers, Dennis K, TIA...

Thank the Diety for htem and thank you for includingme in their company. Enjoy and keep up the great posts...I'll cya in a couple. CHEERS!!!!

[Vidar]

61. Kudos for Kucinich & autorank.

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. kick