Let's talk about Iran

[everythingsxen]

I know for quite a few DUers, Iran is considered to be the wellspring of humanity and goodness since Hugo Chavez declared brotherhood with them. However, I have been watching some Iranian TV on YouTube, and I gotta think that there is a bit more to the overt anti-Semitism in Iran than what some people here have claimed. Quite a few people have attempted to say that Iran's President does not represent them.... while I am sure there are plenty of people in Iran who are good and decent folks... let's watch some TV:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7kqpY8KtKI

Did you like Pirates of the Caribbean? Bet you didn't know you were being brainwashed by Zionist Propaganda! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX-DZk900Ak

Ah those wacky Iranians. It's all just hijinks though I am sure. Islam is a religion of peace and hating the Jews would never be looked upon favorably by the religious leaders of the religion....

Especially not in Iran. They only have contests for the best anti-Semitic cartoon and their President denies the Holocaust happened.

Can you tell how sick I am of hearing the defense of Iran as a good country?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

1. Can you link a post where someone says Iran is some kind of utopia?

What the hell point, exactly, are you trying to make? "We need to bomb Iran now"?

[everythingsxen]

6. I'll get back to you in about 30 minutes

It takes quite a while to sift through the DU archives.

[everythingsxen]

8. Ok, here is a pretty good thread to start with

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2426093#2426101 (Chavez + Iran)

More here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2527970#2527980 (Chavez + Iran)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2523227#2524120 (Chavez + Iran)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2476717#2476751 (Iran specific)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2386558#2386639 (Iraq with some Iranian pepper)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2101954#2102012 (Iran)

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

15. The threads in your links don't support what your OP says.

[Jim Sagle]

2. The key assessment to make is not how bad Iran is, but how much of a threat?

All intelligence estimates I've heard suggest several years before they can make nuke weapons. And there seems to be little evidence that they are beginning such a push right now. So there would seem to be time for a response that is not purely military - once we get this gang of war criminals out of the WH.

[everythingsxen]

5. I don't think we need to attack Iran

however, my main point was that even if Chavez gives them a thumbs-up, they are not nice. (The government and spiritual leadership at any rate; it's hard to get an actual "person on the street" opinion that isn't horribly biased one way or the other)

[scarletwoman]

3. Wow! That strawman! It's so BIG!

It's almost professional -- even Limbaugh quality! Very impressive!

sw

[everythingsxen]

9. Thanks but...

It's actually not a "straw man". Although straw was used in the construction. The first part of it was a skeleton composed of steel, then some wire meshing went over that. I used straw between the wire mesh and skeleton to fill out the structure and give it some better detail. Then I poured concrete over it and put in detail work like facial features.

So, technically, it's a Concrete Man. And I am glad you are impressed by it.

[scarletwoman]

10. Sorry, there's absolutely nothing "concrete" about it.

I've now read through the first 4 threads you posted above (in your post #8 ), and there's absolutely nothing there to back up your absurd assertion that DUers consider Iran to be "the wellspring of humanity and goodness".

There is the usual array of debunkings of disinformation by patient posters striving to inject some solid facts into the conversations. Of course, for the hardcore anti-Chavezists, the facts make no difference.

And arguments against bombing Iran are based on both humanitarian and geostragetic considerations, not admiration of Ahmedinijad.

So what's next? Lefties = Terrorists? You may as well take it all the way and accuse us of being in league with the "Islamofascists" -- you're more than halfway there already with the nonsense in your OP.

sw

[burythehatchet]

4. it takes balls to post that...

or a high threshold for embarrassment

[jhrobbins]

7. Geez guy - you should know with 1000+ posts under your belt...

that any inference that doesn't indict the USA as the source of all global problems will be met with a huge hue and cry. Now I know that all DUers don't think this way, but there is a vocal minority ready to flame the crap out of you. I had the temerity to say that I loved this country and its founding principles and was called absurd, immature and a fool. I know that America isn't perfect and is the source of many problems - national and international, but I sorta look at it like America is a gangly teenager - Ok, so he does steal the family car and gets drunk on Friday night (and occasionally kills some innocent bystanders), but you don't stop loving him; you try and change him and hope he grows up soon.

And the poster that wrote:
'Can you link a post where someone says Iran is some kind of utopia?', reminds me of the tact that Bill O'Reilly uses on people he challenges. When they make a statement that is based on a factual posit, he asks them to cite references, knowing they probably aren't armed to do so, thereby showing them (in his mind) to be wrong.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

16. The posts in the links do not support the OP's bash against DU

[upi402]

11. what the fuck?

since chavez allies with them in a neo oil cartel... IRAN is goodness & light???
:wtf:
IRAN is a fucking theocracy!!!!

Who has made THAT leap of logic. It doesn't follow. Not for me anyway. And nobody I know either.

[scarletwoman]

12. NOBODY made that "leap of logic" -- the OP pulled it out of his

hat -- which looks like a spinning propeller beanie to me...

sw

[upi402]

13. LOL

'Hat' is a far less smelly place that I had suspected!
:rofl:

[Bucky]

14. For the record, Iran is as much a democracy as it is a theocracy.

Yes, it's not my cup of tea. Among other things, Iranian agents of influence played key roles in helping Chalabi help the neocons build a bogus case on Saddam's WMDs. The bloodletting from Shock and Awe and its aftermath is as much on Iran's hands as ours. Iran is a major regional nuisense to our interests in the middle east, but then again we are a nuisense to their interests.

Anyway, there's about a zero percent chance the US is going to attack Iran and the same would have held even if Bush won both houses of Congress this month. We were never going to go to war against Iran: that choice was closed off some time around 2004 when the Iraqi insurgency kicked into high gear.

[upi402]

18. "mullahcracy." -is kinda how I think of it. See Wikipedia

<snip>
Grumbling once done about the tyranny and corruption of the Shah and his court is now directed against the Fear of SAVAK has been replaced by fear of Revolutionary Guards, and other religious revolutionary enforcers.<70> Despite some degree of representative governnment or republicanism in the post-revolutionary political structure (see politics of Iran for more depth), the violations of human rights by the theocratic regime is said by some to be worse than during the monarchy, <71> and in any case extremely grave.<[9>] Torture, the imprisoning of dissidents, and the murder of prominent critics is commonplace. The oppression of women, whose rights were promoted under the Shah, has been common since the revolution. So has the oppression of religious minorities, particularly the members of the Bahá'í Faith, which has been declared heretical.
<end>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution#Post-revolutionary_impact

I see it that way myself, like a Mullahcracy.

[oblivious]

17. Let's look at Iran (before the crazies bomb it to smithereens)

http://conflictiran.blogspot.com/2006/04/inside-iran-city-life.html

Can you tell how sick I am of hearing the defense of Iran as a good country?

Can I tell you how sick I am of the relentless propaganda demonizing Iran and its leaders in an effort to harden the masses to accept the necessity for war.

[Trajan]

19. sheeesh

Fella ? ... Many of us despise the theocratic regime in Iran ....

WTF would I, an ATHEIST, suddenly agree with a bunch of creedal clerics bent on turning the world into a madrassa ? ....

How absurd ....

DU is a community with diverse opinions ..... but the threads YOU presented are like 95% against Iran ....