Do you remember? Cover of Time magazine, March 3, 2003.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

And, inside that issue, less than two weeks before the bombing of Baghdad, was an article describing the views of the American public,"The Doubts of War"...there was never support for this war, except for the lunatic fringe and the PNAC cabal. (bolding mine, red comments all mine)

Bush and his war council are dismissive of the idea that public opinion matters on a question as momentous as this. Asked last week what he thought of the size of the antiwar demonstrations, the President scoffed that worrying about that would be like "deciding, well, I'm going to decide policy based on a focus group.

dismissive, scoffed at the will of people.
>snip

But the nation's appetite for waging war against Saddam is significantly lower now than it was only three months after 9/11, when 73% were in favor. The closer we get to war, the more questions Americans seem to have about it. And one of those questions is whether or not, as Bush argues, the war would make us safer. The poll makes it clear that the President has yet to convince a nation living under an orange alert that waging war would better protect Americans from terrorism.Quite the opposite: 56% said sending U.S. military troops into Iraq would increase the number of al-Qaeda attacks in the U.S.

more evidence that they wanted the people very afraid.
>snip

In the post-9/11 world, pollsters suggest, Americans especially don't want to go it alone because they fear it could stir up hatred and makes them an easier target. "They talk about it in very emotional and very real terms," says Democratic pollster Ed Reilly. "Their great fear is that by prosecuting the war without any allies we are essentially inviting a period of terrorism here at home."

But White House officials are convinced that even if the U.S. cannot get the U.N.'s seal of approval, they can assuage public concerns by assembling enough countries to form what they are calling a Coalition of the Willing. "Once the public hears the names of 12 countries they recognize," one says, "they will be reassured."

"Coalition of the Willing"? Didn't it sound as weak and tepid then as it does now?

>snip
Concerns like Dietz's may be why 61% in the TIME/CNN poll said they believe a war with Iraq would weaken the economy. Such worries also help explain why Americans don't seem to have much appetite for a long war--or a long cleanup. The cost of a prolonged engagement may be why half said the U.S. should stay in Iraq only as long as it takes to stabilize the country rather than undertake the much lengthier task of completely rebuilding it. "If it's long, it won't be good for anybody," says restaurant owner Moragianis, who adds that the real problems may start when the shooting stops. "There are a lot of different groups in Iraq and the world that are going to cause trouble for the American military."

How did this happen? The voices were out there. We need to look back at the (poor) selling of this war and ask ourselves how the cabal still managed to shove this nasty piece of work down our collective throats.

AND MAKE SURE IT NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

MKJ
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/0,9263,7601030303,00.html

edited, for an atrocious grammar mistake.

[Drum]

1. Kick & Rec!

:kick:

[JuniperLea]

2. K&R!!!

Oh yes. I remember. There are a great number of us who never changed their minds about this war and still think it's a crony money making death machine.

But we're too stupid to understand...

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

3. I remember being in an almost fugue state of disbelief. That this president could be called

"popular" that people "trusted in him" and that we were going to launch a pre-emptive war, just because that was what he wanted contributed to that state. And, I honestly felt that I was alone in my concerns and the rest of the country had gone nuts. (I hadn't yet come across DU).

Public discussion was quashed and anyone saying this was a bad idea was ridiculed and marginalized.

"We, the people" are mocked by the so called leaders in government. I hope and pray and will work to insure that we, the people have the last laugh. MKJ

[JuniperLea]

9. I've been at DU since 2002

And it was a great comfort to me in early 2003 when the madness went full tilt... and I somehow knew there were far more people out there who thought like I did... and even more than there were posting on DU. And now, we know there are still far more who are fed up and got off their tuchasses to vote!

[orleans]

46. "fugue state of disbelief" is a good way to describe that feeling...

that's something du has taught me (and air america) is that i'm not alone -- no matter what i'm thinking and feeling, i know now that i'm not the only one. (helps me feel less crazy i guess. lets me feel less politically isolated)

[Quantess]

52. moronic

I was always against the stupid INVASION. It was just a great annoyance to me at the time.

[tblue37]

4. They convinced a bunch of craven Democratic politicians that

they would suffer in the midterm elections if they could be painted as unpatriotic cowards for standing on principle and not supporting the war resolution, which was going to get passed anyway. And of course the MSM was there to help them do that smear job, so the Dems did have reason to fear such a result.

Of course, they voted for the IWR for cowardly reasons, and they ended up getting smeared and defeated anyway, so they sold their souls for nothing.

[Toots]

5. How many Dems voted for IWR?

"How do this happen? The voices were out there. We need to look back at the (poor) selling of this war and ask ourselves how the cabal still managed to shove this nasty piece of work down our collective throats."

How indeed?
How many Democratic Senators voted against IWR? :shrug: Are those same Senators still in office?
How indeed?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

8. Exactly. Boxer, Durbin, Feingold, Levin, here's the list.

:cry: Wellstone.

I think this group shows that it's a good thing to stick with your principles and beliefs and the US Constitution. MKJ

Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (D-FL)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)

[mcg]

14. and the Representatives voting against H.J.Res. 114 ...

http://www.brainshrub.com/voted-no-war-iraq

of those voting against, 6 were Republicans and 1 was Independent

House of Representative members who voted against H.J.Res. 114

Abercrombie
Allen
Baca
Baird
Baldacci
Baldwin
Barrett
Becerra
Blumenauer
Bonior
Brady (PA)
Brown (FL)
Brown (OH)
Capps
Capuano
Cardin
Carson (IN)
Clay
Clayton
Clyburn
Condit
Conyers
Costello
Coyne
Cummings
Davis (CA)
Davis (IL)
DeFazio
DeGette
Delahunt
DeLauro
Dingell
Doggett
Doyle
Duncan
Eshoo
Evans
Farr
Fattah
Filner
Frank
Gonzalez
Gutierrez
Hastings (FL)
Hilliard
Hinchey
Hinojosa
Holt
Honda
Hooley
Hostettler
Houghton
Inslee
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E. B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Leach
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender
Miller, George
Mollohan
Moran (VA)
Morella
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Paul
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (CO)
Udall (NM)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson (CA)
Watt (NC)
Woolsey
Wu

[Tatiana]

31. Again, I have to ask the question...

How was it that these fine Senators didn't allow themselves to be 'misled' (lied to)?

[Warren DeMontague]

44. Same way a lot of us who protested the thing before it started knew it was bullshit. nt

[exlrrp]

58. YAY !! WYDEN!!!

As an Oregonian, I'm proud of our Democrats, Wyden and Defazio especially
A quick brag:
OR governor: D
Senators: 1 D, 1 R (the D is senior)
Congrss: 4 out of 5 D
OR House: D Majority
OR senate: D Majority

We think this is a fair balance of power here in OR, a great place to live (bring galoshes)

[Martin Eden]

6. Russ Feingold spoke out strongly against it

Here's a link to the speech he made before the IWR vote:
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/feingold1.html

[symbolman]

7. Great post

as for the Dem senators, let's not forget that they were given FALSE info as well, something I wish they'd take up as RETRIBUTION now that they are in, the cherry picking was beyond the pale.. Durbin was told next to nothing, didn't believe that they were told by Tenent, demanded MORE and was handed a White paper written BY the White House full of LIES..

It's not like they're innocent, but they WERE Bullshitted.

[FredStembottom]

10. I can't help but think, though, that the BS merely gave them cover

....to fold up under the anxiety of being called "unpatriotic".

[symbolman]

11. Yeah, there was the standard Rovian ploy

but MOST of them really didn't KNOW if there were WMD.. although Hans Blix had handed over a 700 or more page report that said it was ridiculous AND Bush had Kicked out the Inspectors, AND Bush offered no way out of course..

Float three feet above the earth through only the power of your mind of we INVADE. etc.. :)

Hand over something you DON'T HAVE or we invade.. as I recall.

[FredStembottom]

13. True. One can never over-estimate the bizarre level of genuine

....ignorance that seems to pervade the halls of Congress. That's been one of the major revelations that DU has (unfortunately) given me!:crazy:

[electron_blue]

16. I don't get it. I'm not a political wizard, so how come I was never fooled?

Note that I'm not claiming to be any genius here. I am certainly not, so how was I never even remotely convinced this was real, and yet the politicians who got to vote on this, were so easily fooled?

I don't buy that they were fooled. Politicians are, by and large, NOT a gullible group. I think they knew it was b.s. and went along with it anyway for reasons I don't understand.

[symbolman]

20. Durbin in an interview, said he was was bound by law

to NOT reveal some things he knew and as well things he DIDN'T know, if you can wrap your mind around that, strange as it sounds, in some ways the discussion is cramped, due to security reasons, made up by the BushCo guys..

Remember, THEY were not getting invited to the White House for any info at all, while the right wingers were getting an earful, of propaganda of course ;)

[Malva Zebrina]

60. I cannot accept this excuse much.

If they were duped and "bullshitted" what does that say about those who NOT duped, or refused to be duped? Are they smarter, had better investigatory instincts and devices? Are they morally and ethically better than those who were "duped"

I think that excuse is nothing more than a political ploy--playing a game--for after all, suppose Bush really did conquor Iraq, with few Anmerican deaths,in a matter of weeks-- then where would their political careers be--hey riding the high. Their political judgement was poor indeed--unless of course they really were for a war with an idiot as Commander in Chief. It was a stupid vote on the part of them all--Hillary who has never addressed her stupidity in voting for it nor has she come clean about it, and Kerry, who after that vote, was essentially cornered into that corner he put himself into and could not discuss the slaughter going on in Iraq and the consequences for more years of slaughter because of his stupid vote.

[The Count]

12. I forgot the media acknowledged this fact....us, the "focus groups" I remember

I also remember that around invasion time, the only dilemma in the media was "do we bomb them right away, or do we wait for the UN wussies to agree with us?"

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

27. Yep, even NPR jumped on the war cheerleading bandwagon.

Now, they're CNN lite. :eyes: MKJ

[nicknameless]

28. NPR has been milquetoast since the 1994 rethug "revolution" Congress threatened

to withdraw federal funds.

[The Count]

57. yet, they still consider it the "commie" station

When Sam Seder said he wasn't on the air more than a couple of years ago, the freeper said: "but what about Public Radio?" ("our"equivalent of hate radio in their minds)

[nicknameless]

62. The faaaaar reich-wing considers anything left of faux news to be "communist".

These are people who howl and plug their ears when the truth is uttered. They are deranged.

[electron_blue]

15. I have never forgotten that there was never broad public support for this war.

I also remember being sickened as many friends of mine, Dems all, who fell in step with supporting Bush because "I believe it's important to stand behind the President in time of war". I felt like I was in the twilight zone.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

17. Yes, I remember the "support the president" crap coming from the most unlikely people.

:shrug:

I was the out lier. MKJ

[jelly]

40. I too had that unreal sense of having "slipped into the Twilight Zone" in 2003 . . .

I was consumed by a feeling that events were unfolding that were sinister and wrong, yet everywhere I turned there were people acting as though it was not just inappropriate but almost immoral to express doubt concerning the president's plans in Iraq. That I'd entered the Twilight Zone seemed such a fitting analogy to express how I felt yet I wondered whether I was being too melodramatic or idealistic. It's somehow comforting to learn that you happened upon the same analogy to describe how you felt. It really *was* that messed up.

[Quantess]

49. Self edit. Sorry.

[jelly]

50. okay

[Quantess]

54. Know what? I'm just an overall skeptical person.

Don't mind me.:hi:

[Quantess]

61. Jelly, I apologize.

I shouldn't have been so snarky. I was mad about something else, and I was kind of a jerk to you. I'm sorry. Welcome to DU!

[jelly]

66. thanks . . .

Mostly you confused me. Believe me, I've been a strong opponent of the Iraq war since before it was "in" to oppose it, and as a fan of John Stuart Mill's ideas, I've been tearing my hair out for years over the administration's naked efforts to chill opposition and free speech through the use of name-calling, shaming, and fear mongering techniques. It was really nice to find this board, which is loaded with like-minded individuals. Please disregard anything I might have said that might have suggested the opposite to you. I hope you are feeling better, too. :)

[Quantess]

53. if I met ANYONE who was like this:

not just inappropriate but almost immoral to express doubt concerning the president's plans in Iraq.

I would let their apple cart turn upside down. Maybe he/she needs to meet the real people of the USA.

[acmavm]

18. I was so obtuse that I didn't really believe that we would go to war.

For some bizarre crazed reason I held out the hope that there would be some last minute maneuvering that would prevent us from droppping those bombs on innocent people. I thought that somehow saner minds would prevail.

I was an idiot.

[Clinton Crusader]

19. I kinda like this one...

:evilgrin:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

25. :-)

:applause: My future favorite Time magazine coverage. MKJ

[Kelly Rupert]

21. K&R'd.

Too many freepers claiming "but EVERYONE WAS FOR IT!"

[burythehatchet]

22. corporate media. period.

[Lex]

37. Yes--they were the drum beaters for the war; the backdrop to Bush's

aggression against Iraq.

No doubt about it.

[Quantess]

23. The artist made the pretzeldent look a bit too handsome

and wholesome.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

24. You know, I have been viewing this cover as a propaganda masterpiece.

It demanded participation by the citizenry which they know full well was for naught. The garish Uncle Sam outfit was just the ticket a mere three years ago, allowing the question to be attired with just the right "You're with us or against us" sentiment.

Smarter DU minds than I can probably interpret all sorts of techniques used in that cover.

And, hidden inside, was the fact that most of this country did not want the war. MKJ

[Quantess]

33. Propaganda is right!

The propaganda seemed passable to the masses in 2003, right after :sarcasm: "Mission Accomplished" :sarcasm: .

"....the fact that most of this country did not want the war."

I still adhere to the mainstream belief that most of the country believed the idea that Saddam Hussein was behind 9-11, and that an invasion sounded somewhat reasonable (at first). It seemed that I was among only a handful of people around me, who were really upset about the Iraq invasion. I lived in the city of Portland at the time (yes, my Portland friends are terribly apathetic). Most people at the time REALLY DID seem to support "the war". A great guy I had just met in March '03 turned out to be an ignorant dipwad when we disagreed a week later, over the stupid Iraq invasion.

They believed the hype. The people of the USA believed the lies for a little while.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. But Portland had some amazing anti-war demonstrations

Remember when those people went on I-405 with their bicycles to slow down traffic and staged a sit in around 10th and Burnside, blocking the street?

Thousands upon thousands of people marching and only a few counter-demonstrators.

[jelly]

42. I sympathize

I felt so isolated in my overwhelming sense of horror in those early days of the invasion. Chief among the factors contributing to said isolation was that my husband supported (and continues to support) the war. We married young when we were both rather apolitical, but over the years we found ourselves gravitating toward divergent political views. It is really hard being with someone who believes in something to which you are so passionately opposed. Avoiding political discussions with him altogether is how I cope with the situation nowadays but I suspect we will have to deal with the rift in a more direct manner at some future time.

[Quantess]

43. You've already earned your name, jelly!

Just be cool, and you'll do fine.:hi:
If you can't be smart, then I suppose you were like the others who were fooled by the pretzeldent. The scant few. (upon edit: the scant few who are still fooled by the pretzeldent's dumb shenanigans and dumb words.)

[jelly]

47. Hehe, thanks, I'd rather be cool than fooled!

I have a theory about why everyday people continue to seek some way to defend the madness: because psychologically, some truths are almost too terrible to acknowledge. I should know; I acknowledged that the war in Iraq was an immoral, unjustified disaster and as a result spent a great deal of 2003 seriously depressed. I just couldn't believe what was being done in the name of America.

[Quantess]

48. Yes, neo-cons think they are cool, I'm glad you brought it up.

And maybe they are cool. I just don't know know, because I'm 35 years old.

[Greyhound]

26. The politiwhores shoved it down our throats.

We opposed the war, our representatives wanted it.

Thanks for the reminder.
:kick: & R

[greiner3]

29. The night we (they?) invaded Iraq;

I sent an email to the Hague asking how I could file for war crimes against bushco. They sent back a reply that said I needed to be a sovereign nation to do that. I emailed the German embassy, as I can trace back most of my ancestors there, requesting their help in the matter, but I never received an answer.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

30. I applaud your efforts, even though you're mocking them.

:toast: MKJ

[yorkiemommie1]

32. The yellow ribbon stickers got slapped on cars

and all the 'patriots' drank their daily koolaid and bought the lies. Those of us who questioned were made to feel like traitors. And now, everything we thought would happen has happened, and worse.

I blame everybody who didn't bother to think things out for themselves and jumped on the bandwagon. I know people who STILL talk about the war as if it were some reality show going on over there and not real men and women dying. This war is STILL NOT REAL to some people.

[RagingInMiami]

35. And don't forget all those idiots pouring French wine in the streets

Because France wouldn't help us invade a foreign country. That is when I realized I live in a nation of idiots.

[Lex]

38. And it turns out France was *right* about this war

just as I figured they would be.

Pouring out the wine and freedoms fries and all that was to me some scary, backwards, nationalistic shit.

[RagingInMiami]

39. All that talk about Freedom Fries

And not once did someone stop and realize our symbol of freedom -- the statue of liberty -- was given to us by France.

[yorkiemommie1]

63. yeah and the freedom fries guy

retracted his position.

[yorkiemommie1]

65. oh hey i mentioned that

and it didn't make any impression on the fools.

[yorkiemommie1]

64. there was a restaurant here in our SoCal mall

named 'vie de france' that shut down right after the 'anti-french' sentiment took hold.
my rw brother said it served them right.

my response was that FRENCH people probably did NOT own that restaurant!!

just as in " Stones from the River " people stopped patronizing a Jewish bakery just before Nazism took hold.

[TexasLawyer]

34. focus group

I have thought about Bush's "focus group" comment many times over the last years.

If only he HAD paid attention to us.

[boolean]

36. Two words: Dixie Chicks

Anybody who spoke out against the war before it started was flayed by the corpomedia. I remember it well. You were branded a traitor, a terrorist sympathizer, an America hater, a loony left wing liberal nutjob, a Saddam apologist, a nazi, a sissy, a hater of the troops, etcetera etcetera etcetera!

Clear channel stopped playing Dixie chick songs. BillO was in full "culture warrior" mode. Insanity and Rushy beat the war drums daily. CNN, MSNBC, Fux news, "reporters" asked bullshit "questions". Worldwide protests were ignored or simply discredited. When the war began, major networks got a HUGE ratings jump and made billions of dollars.

In short: Fascism did it's usual work.

[jelly]

45. Natalie should have never apologized.

[NJCher]

51. too many Americans were oblivious

I remember the February before they invaded, I spent several weekends handing out flyers in the cold, rainy parking lot of a nearby grocery store mall. This mall and grocery attracts huge numbers of people.

We had flyers printed up that said to let the inspections play out. That's all we were asking--just let the inspections proceed before doing any rash, dumb ass move.

Well, let me tell you what the response was. Most of the time people just shrugged and walked off. They didn't even want to take the flyer. I had at least two people tell me flat out they didn't care about politics and to leave them alone.

You talk about being depressed. I was absolutely sickened with the reaction from my fellow Americans. No, all they gave a damn about was walking to and from the grocery with huge bags of food that they could put in their SUVs and then drive to their comfortable homes.

The others who did flyer distribution reported similar results.

And this is in a blue state.

Often, when doing this sort of work, a few people will at least thank you for the effort. Not in this case. Not one single person even acted liked they cared.




Cher

oh and p.s. I still think of this guy in a black Jeep. When I tried to talk to him about it, he interrupted me to say, "You don't really know what's going on over there." I wanted to respond, "And you do?" but in efforts like these, confrontations serve no purpose.

I still think of this guy and wonder what he thinks is "really going on over there" now.

[cassiepriam]

55. He lost the gamble, and the world is paying, Not him. NT

[BlueIris]

56. Ah, were we ever so young?

March 3, 2003, a day that for strange personal reasons I remember quite well, (something tells me...it was an "important" day, cosmically) feels like a different universe to me.

[leveymg]

59. Thanks for that list! We must stand by them. They are the heroes of our time.

Makes me proud to be a Democrat to see how many of our elected reps voted against the IWR.