Have you ever gone back and read posts of someone who has been Tombstoned?

[trumad]

I've always thought it interesting because it clearly shows how they think and frame their arguments.

For instance, this guy: bigriver

Very short answers that lack any type of context or deep thought.

[ComerPerro]

1. do you mean longtime posters who got banned, or 8-post trolls?

[trumad]

3. I check long timers just to see what got them banned...

But no---it's the 100 post timers that I like to check out.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

5. LOL, it's almost an automatic with me. There's something about those short declarative statements.

The DU'ers who use that particular literary device can communicate nuance in just a few words.

Those un nuanced pronunciations of "the truth" by very newbies get that quick once over by moi....:-) MKJ

[ComerPerro]

14. also, they almost always have no profile

I've noticed that even the most newbie of DUers, if they are sincere, will put some info into their profile while setting up their account. That's partly becuase they sincerely want to be part of a community, and aren't just in a rush to get a UserName/password and start posting.

[Dinger]

50. Yup, That Is A Definite Red Flag

Not all low-post-count newbies are trolls, but anybody with half a brain knows there is a certain etiquette to follow here is you are new.

[bigluckyfeet]

81. I have no profile

and have never checked on anyone's profile here.

[ComerPerro]

8. ok, was wondering. To me, though, I can recognize disruptors right away

there are about three or four different styles they use commonly.

One is they are very careful to try to establish themselves as liberals. "My fellow left wingers", "we democrats", etc.

Two, they will often use the guise of concern to tear down prominent people on the left, "Well, its just that I am worried people like Michael Moore make us look bad when they..."

And then, of course, like you said, they are often very brief. Some of them, you can tell, are in a frenzy to get in as many jabs as possible in as many forums as possible. This is for a few reasons. They are trying to build up post count to try to establish some sort of credibility. And some of them know that there is a certain magic number they must reach before they can post new threads or send PMs...

[Patiod]

51. I have noticed the "we democrats" or "we liberals"

in questionable posts.

The one who left the clearest impression was someone who had a weird badly-drawn image in his/her sig: A stage, with the curtains opened on a garish "Hillary" sign. I kept waiting, and waiting, and finally - tombstoned - a day or two after the 02 elections.

I'm not saying that anyone who is ardently and vocally in favor of Sen. Clinton being the Dem nominee in 08 is a troll, it's just that it sort of sets off my troll-dar when a newbie is.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

35. How do you know who's been banned?

I went to bigriver's profile and saw the tombstone ... clever and comical method of banning.

[rman]

21. some trolls, disruptors manage to hang around for a long time

before being exposed. anyone remember "muddleoftheroad"?

Otoh there are some well known and highly appreciated DUers who have been banned.

[ComerPerro]

24. that's what I was getting at. Remember the 2004 election?

Some people who were well known and well liked, and who never really said anything outside of mainstream for DU and never really caused any trouble, suddenly revealed themselves to be Bushbots.

Kinda sad, because many were donors and had tens of thousands of posts.

Imagine it, to waste all that time pretending to be a liberal on a discussion board, just so you can pull a "gotcha" after the election...


Sad.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. They even donated?

That is beyond nutty.

[ComerPerro]

32. gotta keep up the image

[rman]

31. That's not what i am getting at.

There are other reasons for being banned besides being a bushbot.
There's more than one rule that can be violated.

The banned DUers i refer to are in my opinion not Bushbots, though the fact they have been banned may create the impression that they are. The banning of these people was the beginning of an exodus of sorts of more than a few good long-time DUers, who now hang out on a website that i'm fairly sure is not allowed to be mentioned here.

[bananas]

52. You mean people like benburch and Walt Starr

when you said "Otoh there are some well known and highly appreciated DUers who have been banned."

[johnaries]

59. A lot of outstanding DUer's were "baited".

Another poster would draw them into an argument and get them frustrated and angry enough that they would begin posting things they normally wouldn't and eventually break a DU rule in their frustration. Then a mod would be alerted, and the mod would have no choice but to ban them.

I've see it happen way too many times.

So, please, DUER's if someone makes you angry and frustrated, don't fall for the trap. Just take a deep breath and calm down before you reply. Or, just hit "Ignore".

:hi:

[seabeyond]

70. i find this odd that anyone is so out of control, they cannot accept

responsibility for their own behavior. i so disagree with your posts that a person can actualy be baited and not responsible for self. for me, that is almost offensive. sure make them less. i figure they had something they wanted to say, knowing the trouble it may cause them, and the results that may happened, and still made the choice to do it because it was worth it to them. at least that is me empowering them, instead of creating them as powerless

[elocs]

71. I have used the X a number of times, but small out of the 98,000+ members.

"Ignore" is great for those posters who have no respect for your opinion or none for one other than their own.

[elocs]

69. That's kind of sad when you cannot mention something.

Somehow it doesn't seem very Liberal.

[Mandate My Ass]

55. oh yeah I remember him

:puke:

[pnorman]

61. That's what's been nagging at my mind also.

If they've got a post-count that high, they're almost certainly NOT Freak Republic style "freepers". "Disrupters"?? To me that has an almost witch-hunt ring. It brings to mind a pair of Josephs --- McCarthy & Stalin.

DU is most certainly a Freeper-Magnet, and considering it's size and traffic-througput, it must be a MONSTER job for the moderators. But I'd still like to see some some sort of "second-chance" review here, although I can offer no idea of implementation.

In ANY event, to ME, the sight of a tombstone here is a cause of sadness rather than gleeful exultation.

pnorman

[never cry wolf]

75. There can be a second chance

Many good DUers have been banned for an indescretion and been allowed back in. I know you have to email the admins and make your case and ask to be reinstated but what the criteria they judge by I don't know.

[Kelly Rupert]

76. The guy I know who told me about DU ended up getting banned.

He tried emailing them. They wouldn't even tell him why he got banned. Oh well. Doesn't matter, really.

[elocs]

2. So "tombstoned" is banned? n/t

[trumad]

4. As banned as can be....

[elocs]

7. Thanks, I have heard it being referenced, but not specifically explained.

I have also seen posters who are accused of being a troll or freeper or RWer because their opinion does not line up with the majority. In those cases I have checked their past posts to get a better picture.

[robbob]

29. Check out the user profile of a banned poster

Their information has been replaced with the image of a tombstone, with the epitaph:

"Here lies a disruptor. He disrupted, poorly"

or something like that. Hence the moniker "Tombstoned".

<on edit: "There"/"Their" arg!!! I wish I was a freeper just so I wouldn't have to care about spelling!>

[AnnInLa]

6. What conclusions

did you draw from those tombstoned? Common threads? Were they obvious trolls or insidious?

[ComerPerro]

11. when you see enough of them before they get tombstoned, you'll learn to spot them

[JuniperLea]

15. Hahahahahaha!

Oh yes, the voice of wisdom...

You called me an asshole FReeper the other day just because I didn't agree with you...

Oh, yes... you can tell the difference. LOL!!!

If I am a Freeper, I'm the longest lasting one who ever graced the stage at DU, seeing as how I have been here since early 2002!


:rofl:


:headbang:

[Trajan]

67. LMFAO ...

Thats funny ... well kinda ...

I used to party in Lakewood, by Turnergrove and Stevely .... Went to Long Beach City College and worked at McDonnell Douglas ....

Small world ....

(see ? .. I HAD to check your profile ....)

[elocs]

68. I've seem a poster be called a freeper frequently by somebody who disagrees with them.

Or at least it is strongly implied. When it comes to a difference of opinion, the one who throws up the freeper accustion tag first has lost.

[LWolf]

18. Some are obvious. Some are insidious.

Some aren't trolls at all, but are just expressing an opinion that the owners of the board don't want discussed. As expressed clearly in this sample from the hate mailbag. The disclaimer: the poster in question may very well have been a troll. I don't know who it was, and am not defending their posts. It's the DU response that I am pointing out:

<snip>

Let's Just Get One Thing Straight
From: S M <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:02:24 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Suspension

Its bullshit that you (1) suspended my privileges and (2) didn't respond to my post asking why they were suspended. If you are going to suspend someone for disagreeing with other users on certain issues then go ahead and post a big "NO FREE SPEECH HERE" logo on the web site.

DU RESPONDS:

>>> NO FREE SPEECH HERE <<<


http://www.democraticunderground.com/mail/hatemail_26.html

Not all tombstones are given because people are trolls. Some are given because people espouse views the owners of the site don't want on the board. Progressive/liberal views that have nothing to do with conservative or republican "trolls."

Others are banned because they lost their temper and picked a fight with mods, or with other DUers, too many times, even though they are card-carrying democrats.

[conscious evolution]

74. Others are banned because they lost their temper and picked a fight with mods, or with other DUers

Bev Hrris falls in this category.I was just a lurker when her BS went down.What she did to Andy Stephenson was completely outragous and totally inhuman.

[filer]

9. How do you go back and read posts of others?

Please excuse my ignorance, but I simply don't know.
:shrug:

[TahitiNut]

16. Use the 'Search' function and look for 'Author'

That'll produce the list of threads. One then looks at the thread and scans for posts authored by the individual. (For the mods, at one time, that search was facilitated with a tool similar to 'My Posts'.)

[filer]

20. Thanks.

Slowly but surely I'm learning the ropes.

[trumad]

19. Go to the search icon above

put the posters name in ---click on the search all forums button---then say author only....

[filer]

25. Whew, that's scary.

I'd better be careful what I post. It doesn't just go away, does it. Thanks.
:)

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

36. Yes, you are definitely leaving a record, not a bad thing. The community board is

is cultural marvel.

It's fascinating that this form of communication is so engaging for many, yet of little interest or even threatening to many others.

And, the participation in this type of communication cuts across all socio-economic, geopolitical lines. Hence, freepers are as dedicated to their blogs as we are to DU, DailyKos, C & L, etc.,etc. And, it's a form of communication throughout the world.

And, I always think twice before hitting "Post Message." That little pause has served me well...:-) MKJ

[filer]

60. I agree that that leaving a record is not a bad thing.

From one whose big mouth has gotten him in trouble at times, sometimes strong opinions are better left unsaid. On the other hand, an anonymous forum such as this allows freedom to express opinions I might otherwise keep to myself.

Nevertheless, exercising a little caution before posting will save me excessive wincing, and that causes wrinkles, you know.
:)

[elocs]

72. You are not only leaving a record here, but also on places like Google. n/t

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

79. I guess I think of that record as leaving footsteps. My real self is much better represented by my

written words. MKJ

[TahitiNut]

10. Yes.

It's also how a 'case' is made for/against tombstoning. That particular troll was quite obvious. There wasn't a nationally prominent Dem (e.g. Kerry, Edwards, Clark, Clinton) he didn't bash with a condescending one-liner. As he built up his post count, his posts were scattered and abbreviated. Then, he stalked and stirred the pot with inflammatory posts - a few of which were among the most outrageous I've seen on DU. He never gave even the slightest courtesy to the replies he received.

FWIW, 'bigriver' ran up 110 posts after joining on Nov 6th. Even when folks hide their profile, it's easy to get the date they joined.

[acmejack]

27. The profile is always an annoyance if nothing else.

It seems like a courtesy item. I like to look and see where a person is, you can gather a lot of information from posts when you are able to know those those demographics. Plus, inquiring minds want to know.

[TahitiNut]

28. It's a way of showing courtesy to others, imho.

When someone posts something to the effect "people are angry here" it's only courteous to set the context for "here." I think it's presumptuous and self-centered to employ such references with the likely implicit expectation that only those with whom one has 'bonded' (a clique?) know where 'here' is. I suppose, if I make the effort, I can barely understand 'undeclared' gender, but I really think hiding one's own profile is discourteous/antisocial.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

39. I agree. One can have the bare bones profile, but a least offer some sort

of "face" to those with whom you're conversing.

Discourteous is a perfect description. MKJ

[annabanana]

53. It's kind of like wearing mirror sunglasses...

It's a "I can see you, but you can't see me" vibe that I find disturbing. It seems like a low-grade power-trip.

[Mugu]

82. They may not know that their profile is not viewable.

I didn't realize that one needed to enable the profile. I had filled out all of the fields that pertained to me (no ICQ, or AOL, or home page, etc.) but the other day I finally tried viewing my own profile I found that I needed to enable it.

Regards,

Mugu

[seabeyond]

33. though mine would show amarillo texas.... it certainly could

provide a lot of information on myself.... the way i see and experience things. that being said... though i show amarillo, i moved here from california. ergo... due to lack of information (being califorian) the information can be totally off the mark

[TahitiNut]

44. Well, I addressed a congruent concern I had in my profile.

Even though born & raised in this area, I really feel most 'at home' in the SF Bay Area ... where I lived for the first 2 years I was on DU.

[ComerPerro]

34. I like to see at least male/female and location

[JuniperLea]

12. I think that's a tactic to get post counts up

So when they go for the jugular, there are 1000+ posts. I think the real telling factor is 1000+ posts in a very short period of time. You can rack up the numbers very quickly with non-substantive posts.

I've been here since 2002 and I've been called a troll... I had to LOL irl about that one:) Some people just can't stand a differing opinion.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

22. I know I've been accused a couple of times, can't remember exactly why

except that I was engaging in spirited exchanges with other DU'ers and that was kind of pulled out as a taunt..."yeah, that's what a FREEPER would say" or something similar.

That's a good indicator, to me, that I am inadvertently assisting in the creation of a "deleted sub thread", so I'll usually stop, well right after I respond with a :rofl:

MKJ

[Poll_Blind]

13. You can learn a lot, for lots of different reasons, by reading old posts.

Not necessarily by TS'd people, but sometimes that's interesting too. I do the same thing with old news stories. Sometimes you get unexpected and interesting insights into a person or topic that way.

PB

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

26. I do that with old news stories, too. I have followed certain posters over the last

2 plus years, but some of their posts that were inspirational to me at the time would be amazing to revisit.

I have a few of my own I'd cringe to reread, although I have tried to be honest about my views and feelings. There's one overwrought post, in particular I'd like to have back...:-) MKJ

[Melynn]

17. Trolls and moles are so juvenile

They have the mentality of a 14 year old. "I really got those guys, hee, hee, hee". Whatever.

[seabeyond]

23. this is my thought. i fooled them. .... say what, wasnt playing

easy to win when another isnt playing the game. so clever... rollin eyes

[DemReadingDU]

37. what is ignored?

I have seen a few replies lately, posted by someone called ignored, and posting a message called ignored.

can't search for this, but every now and then, it's there.

or maybe I'm dreaming :eyes:

[NMDemDist2]

41. you have a poster, or posters on ignore, you can see your list

in your "options" settings


:rofl:

[DemReadingDU]

46. Thanks! It was an oops!

:rofl:

[TahitiNut]

42. It keeps you from seeing another DUer's posts. Just click on this icon ...

... in any of their posts and their posts will be filtered from your view.

Personally, I don't use it. Never have.

[DemReadingDU]

45. it was an Ooops!

I've been around for a couple years, and never even knew that was an option!

[annabanana]

57. I have used "ignore" in fits of pique, on occasion. . .

I usually repent in a day or so and "un-ignore" again.

(Sometime when I relent and un-ignore someone, I find them deleted, or tombstoned...)

[TahitiNut]

62. For a while, I put 'nuke' candidates in my Buddy List.

There's really no other use for the Buddy List that I can see, so I thought I'd keep track of the folks who I'd alerted were nukables. (Just for the record, I DON'T alert on people through mere disagreement, no matter how strongly.) I batted 1.000. Dozens and dozens over a period of a few months, and every one of them were tombstoned, the overwhelming majority within the same day but always within a couple of weeks at most. I'm not aware of a single person for whom I've "voted 'nuke'" that hasn't been - even though I may have come close to being banned myself (or given a 'time out') when I lose it on some particularly outrageous and despicable attacks.

[bananas]

43. Oops! I've done that a few times too - put someone on 'ignore' by accident

You can ignore a user or hide a thread,
unfortunately you can do this by accident if you accidently click on the 'ignore' icon

Go to your user options and check your 'ignore list' and 'hidden threads'

[DemReadingDU]

48. Yep, it was an oops!

Thanks, silly me!

:blush:

[conscious evolution]

73. I know what you mean

I have accidently hit the ignore button without realizing it until I see the DU er named ignore!:shrug:

[JNelson6563]

38. I wish they'd tombstone people for

posting lounge fodder in GD. I so remember when that wasn't the case.

Julie

[seabeyond]

40. here lately te moderators have been doing an excellent job kicking it

to lounge. they use to also lock threads that were dupes pretty aggressively. good and bad in that but i think ultimately it was a good practice i would like to see again. but i have been noticing them sending threads to appropriate room a lot better. i would never suggest a tombstone for that. kinda like execution for a speeding ticket. a little excessive

[JNelson6563]

56. I meant repeat offenders

mea culpa for the poor communication.

I find the arrogance of thsoe who treat GD as their own personal lounge to be rather galling.

Julie

[Dinger]

47. I'd Like To, But Don't Know How

Sounds like fun:evilgrin:

[shanti]

49. that's interesting

bigriver was on my ignore list...which admittedly, is quite large. i went back and looked at his posts and realized WHY he'd been there in the first place!

;)

[creeksneakers2]

54. I'd like to thank DU here

I've often disagreed with the mainstream DU opinion and haven't been tombstoned or even had any posts deleted. The responses I've received were almost all polite and in many cases I've learned something from them. There may be people who were banned simply for having differing opinions but that hasn't been my experience.

[seabeyond]

58. mine either. i try to speak up about ban issue. often i will debate an issue

declare i am not a democrat.... whatever, and i never have issues with the administration. from what i see the people who do get tombstoned are going out of their way to be banned. i dont agree at all that it is a matter of simply disagreeing that gets a person banned. i call bullshit, wink

[Cleita]

66. There's a definite smell of the swamp on troll posts.

It has nothing to do with difference of opinion and a lot to do with how that opinion is presented.

[Octafish]

63. bigriver wrote ''F... Christmas.''

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2790021

That might make some middle-of-the roaders, let alone that great Christian majority, think less of Democratic Underground and Democrats in general.

[Cleita]

64. bigriver got tombstoned?

I was wondering when.

:rofl:

[charlyvi]

65. I miss OldLeftyLawyer.

She was a flinty one, but funny as hell. I wish she would come back.

[Puglover]

78. I miss her very much.

IMO DU is the one who lost when she was TS.

[JackBeck]

77. Boo! Someone I was having a "discussion" with just got tombstoned.

I wonder what caused it to happen.

[salin]

80. Did ya go back and read my posts?

when i was banned?

Bet you didn't know that :D

And no, it wasn't for unmerciless OU over MU teasing ;-)

Back after one really bad pesky freeper invasion, the Admin put in some new autoban features. One feature was if someone tried to post a thread multiple times in rapid succession - the poster would automatically lose their posting priveledges - and earn the tombstone.

Well.... I had stepped outside for a smoke - came back in with my coat still on - went to respond to a post, and the sleeve of my winter jacket rested on return - and served to send my post multiple times...

I couldn't believe I suddenly lost priveledges - took me a few minutes to figure out what had happened. I sent a note to the admin who restored my priveledges in the am (who sent a very nice 'sorry you got caught in the new tech - we are working out glitches...' message to me).

Only one long-timer caught that I was briefly banned - and first sent a note (wtheck did ya do?!) and then ribbed me for a while.

[Moderator]

83. locking.....

If you feel that someone is a disruptor, please
use the alert feature so that the moderators
can evalulate the member. Please don't
start threads that tell people how to catch
a freeper.