Chávez may end Venezuelans right to play baseball in US

[CatWoman]

George Bush and Hugo Chávez share something even deeper than their mutual loathing. Baseball is as much a religion in Venezuela as it is in the United States and the two leaders are both fanatics.

However, baseball fans in both countries fear that President Chávez may deprive the American game of one of its prime assets — the flow of rich talent from Venezuela.

At stake are millions of dollars invested by some of the biggest American teams in training academies in Venezuela and the thwarted ambitions of youngsters.

Venezuelans go to the polls next month with Mr Chávez, who models himself on Fidel Castro, another baseball obsessive, in pole position to win another six-year term.

One of the greatest concerns among the middle class, who increasingly steer their sons towards baseball academies rather than academic college, is that Mr Chávez will close the domestic professional league and restrict the rights of sportsmen to play in America. Ron Rizzi, a scout for the Los Angeles Dodgers, has served the game for 39 years and has been coming to Venezuela to watch players for the past decade. He said: “Chávez is so anti-US that he may inhibit players’ ability to get there. If he wins the election they might have to come out on a boat.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2470616,00.html

[Kagemusha]

1. Chavez may. Or he may not. This article is complete speculation

There's nothing here saying Chavez WANTS to do this, or that he INTENDS to do this, or that he WILL do this, only that he MAY.

What a stupid excuse of a news article. (Edit: That's a knock on the Times.)

[Robbien]

9. Yeah, what nonsence. This article is all about some scout's supposition

Ron Rizzi, a scout for the Los Angeles Dodgers supposes Chavez may or may not do something.

That is the crux of the whole article.

Don't know if the US media can sink any lower.

[stepnw1f]

2. self-deleted

[rockymountaindem]

3. I think they meant "baseball fanatic"

No cause for alarm, being a fan of baseball myself but not a fan of either Bush or Chavez.

[Trajan]

4. In all honesty ...

Its says he is as BASEBALL fanatic, not a 'fanatic' ...

[scarletwoman]

5. This entire article was pulled out of the writer's ass.

NOwhere in this stinker is there any evidence offered of Chavez making ANY statement or move toward doing such a thing.

One might just as well write an article speculating that Bush is so anti-Chavez that he will forbid Venezuelan baseball players to play in the U.S. Making shit up can work both ways.

sw

[Kagemusha]

20. I tried saying much the same thing but I bow to a superior effort.

Well put. :)

[scarletwoman]

28. Actually, I think your post is more succinct and to the point.

I just didn't see it until after I posted.

Just another example of great minds thinking alike. :D

sw
:hi:

[k_jerome]

6. Bush and Chavez share more than baseball and mutual loathing...

they are both idiots.

[ret5hd]

10. Please, enlighten us as to the extent of Chavez's idiocy...

(and i am sure that i don't need to request links)

[k_jerome]

11. It is my opinion. As are most things on a discussion board.

Is Chavez your uncle?

[ret5hd]

12. An innocent request for info elicits such venom???

My, I do believe I have the vapours!

[k_jerome]

13. no venom, just a little jab. Sorry to offend. nt.

[Wilms]

14. Well around here, Chavez gets pretty high marks.

Higher than some Dem presidential hopefuls.

But he's probably not perfect. So what prompts you to refer to him as an idiot?

[k_jerome]

16. his big mouth...

the dumb comments he makes. He will go the way of his predecessors - bullet in the head in a coup. The only smart thing he has done is latch onto another idiot to distract his country from the fact that he carries on the policies of those that came before him.

[Wilms]

18. There have been a few quotes he may (or may not) have been smart to edit.

But in what way does he carry the policy of his predecessors?

[Judi Lynn]

49. If he carries on the policies of those "that" came before him, why did the

opposition, which has always been in charge, attempt to overthrow him? Any ideas?

They could have saved themselves some trouble, since he, as you say, has been carrying on their own policies.

[ret5hd]

15. My offence I can handle, thank you...

but the basis of your "opinion" of Chavez continues to elude me.

[k_jerome]

17. Sorry, I'm not a Chavez cheerleader. Those that are...

befuddle me as well. That is the nature of disagreement.

[ret5hd]

23. But at least (if asked) I can present a cogent argument...

in favor of Chavez. Alas, I have seen no such presentation from you defending your point of view.

And I asked.

[1932]

33. ...and that says a great deal about the relative weight we should give people's

opinions.

I have yet to see a well-argued anti-Chavez post at DU.

Not saying it couldn't happen. But I definitely have yet to see one.

[justinaforjustice]

19. Nonsense!

Chavez has been delivering cheap oil to the poor in several other countries in South and Central America and in parts of the United States, while Bush has invaded Iraq to steal control of their oil. Chavez offered immediate assistance to the Katrina victims in the United States, Bush ignored them and refused Venezuela's offer of assistance.

Chavez is a true Christian and a visionary who has brought free health care, literacy, education, job training and subsidized food to the poor of Venezuela, while Bush has killed over 655,000 Iraqis with his bombs, mortars and white phosphorous grenades, destroyed their homes and businesses and caused unimaginable suffering to millions.

Chavez has not invaded a single foreign country. Bush has invaded two, threatens next to attack Iran and Syria, and has bankrolled efforts to topple Chavez's democratically elected government.

Chavez has made low interest loans to other South American countries to help them pay back confiscatory International Monetary Fund loans which would force them to privatize their resources, such as water. Chavez has taught the Venezuelan workers about occupational health and safety issues by showing Charlie Chaplin films.

Chavez is a brilliant man who cares about human beings, including the Americans that Bush does not care about.

As a dedicated baseball player himself, it is highly unlikely that Chavez would interfere with anyone's opportunity to play professional baseball.

This is yet another piece of baseless, anti-Chavez propaganda propounded by those of the rich elites who fear a leader who is bringing true democracy and human development to his country.

[k_jerome]

21. rah rah Chavez...

as I said, he and Bush are idiots. A bullet in the head from a coup awaits him, as surely as the legacy of a failed president awaits Bush.

[tkmorris]

24. Hmm.....

Justinaforjustice posted reasons, you post one-liners.

Guess who sounds like they know what they are talking about?

[CatWoman]

25. *snark*

:rofl:

[k_jerome]

26. the person you agree with? nt.

[scarletwoman]

32. No, the person who actually marshalls facts to support their argument.

Unlike you.

[upi402]

7. This is HUGH! Forget the collapse of the dollar, the oil bourse...

Our MLB is screwn!!!
:scared: :nuke: :grr: :beer: :wow: :spank:




:rant: :sarcasm: j/k of course

[Missy M]

8. It seems a shame the middle class steer their sons towards...

baseball academies instead of academic college. The chance of someone becoming a big league baseball player in the US is small and I would think they would rather have their sons get a good college education. Other than that this article is pure BS with no real evidence this will happen aside from the concerns of the middle class.

[shance]

22. This is so typical of the rich white male media. While the Bush Administration

is killing thousands of innocent women, children and men in countries internationally. They are acting as if Chavez is committing war crimes like they are.

THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT BASEBALL???????????

What in the world have we become?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Oh, the horror!!! What a monster Chavez is!!

Preventing Venezuelans from coming here to make millions chasing a ball! Curbing the sale of beer and hot dogs! 'Murka is doomed!

[Katzenjammer]

29. Anyone want to bet that this *isn't* propaganda written for local consumption?

The underlying message being "don't vote for Chavez or your kid won't be able to Make Millions Fast".

[Peace Patriot]

30. Chavez has done more for baseball in Venezuela than anyone ever has.

He tells the story of being so poor, when he was a kid, he couldn't afford baseballs. They played with sticks and rocks. So, when he became president, one of the things he was determined to do--and has done--is to create baseball fields and provide equipment to all the poor regions of the country. He once bragged that Venezuela has more baseball fields than any country on earth.

I suspect that this vile piece of crap propaganda from the rightwing London Times is aimed at any good vibes Chavez may have created in Venezuela and the world, by his devotion to baseball and commitment to the poor and THEIR enjoyment of and training in the sport, prior to the December presidential election.

The poster upthread who says that "Chavez is an idiot" is typical of the hit and run anti-Chavez posters at DU. They NEVER have anything to say. Not one fact. At first, I thought these posters were just clueless and brainwashed by our war profiteering corporate news monopolies, whose lockstep propaganda hits on Chavez are laughable, to those who know anything about the subject, and lethal to those who don't. But I'm beginning to think it's something else. A stealth psyops campaign by Exxon-Mobile? By the Bush-purged CIA? By USAID (which is ILLEGALLY funding Chavez's political opposition with OUR tax dollars and plotting another violent coup)?

The MO is too repetitive. Whenever a Chavez thread arises, in they come. Chavez is an idiot. Chavez is a dictator. Chavez is no better than Bush. One and two-line hits. No evidence. No facts. And when they're challenged, they either disappear, or change the subject and stir up a distracting side argument, or offer a one or two line lame defense ("just my opinion").

Thus reasonable and factual discussion is seeded with lots of anti-Chavez subject lines and statements, that are completely uninformative but may have an impact on uninformed lurkers who want to be educated on the subject. It's the rightwing mode. Repeat a lie over and over and over again, and it becomes common currency and some people--too many--think there must be some truth to it, because they read it/see it/ hear it everywhere.

Some of these anti-Chavez posters may be just clueless, but I think many of them are not. I think they are paid operatives.

This current anti-Chavez's poster's repetition of the phrase "bullet in the head" is very disturbing, especially so close to the anniversary of JFK's "bullet in the head." As Chavez so aptly put it at the UN, "you can smell the sulfur."

Why imagine this fate for a democratically elected President, who has done so much for the poor, inflict this image on us, and then repeat it? Is it to inure us to the idea, so that, when they try it again in Venezuela, it will be ho-hum news? Just another "banana republic" in turmoil?

Why does the poster not post any information about Bushite/oil elite plots in Venezuela, and condemn them for it, as they deserve? Why does he just dully predict this horror, and treat it as inevitable--as if Hugo Chavez deserves a "bullet in the head" because he is "an idiot" and just like Bush?

It is a sickening and poisonous post.

[scarletwoman]

31. Thank you, Peace Patriot. Excellent post!

It's a good question: are the anti-Chavez posters just that clueless, or are they hired guns (so to speak)? It gets so tiresome, year after year, countering the lies and right wing propaganda over and over again. And there always seems to be a fresh supply of posters ready to take up the "Chavez is a dictator/thug, etc." meme even as the old ones fade out of DU.

And none of them has ever evinced the slightest inclination to be educated as to whys and hows of the corporate media distortions -- why the stories spun in our press about Chavez are serving the interests of the ruling capitalist ownership class, which fears the empowerment of the underclass above all.

There are few, if any, DUers who have any trouble grasping the fact that corporate media organizations routinely distort and disadvantage Democrats and progressives. And new DUers who may start out not being savvy about it works are quick to pick up on it and recognize it for what it is once it's pointed out to them.

But no anti-Chavez poster who has repeatedly had demonstrated to them how this very same distortion process is used against Chavez has ever, to my knowledge, had a light bulb go on over their head and exclaimed, "Ah! Now I see what you mean!"

Nope, they just doggedly repeat the lies and the right wing talking points in thread after thread after thread. What's in it for them? Why are they so invested in drumming out the same tired propaganda over and over?

They're not offering any vision of how Venezuelan democracy could be made better if Chavez were out of power. All they do is try to tear Chavez down. Why?

I suppose it's going to only get worse as we get closer to the December Venezuelan election. I'm going to keep a close eye on how many new and newish posters show up spouting the right wing talking points.

Thank you again for speaking out. This nonsense has gone on far too long around here. I want these people to fully account for what they say and why they are saying it.

sw

[CatWoman]

34. couple things YOU should know

I am NOT anti-Chavez. I happen to both like and respect him. When he spoke up at the UN, that absolutely made my day.

I got this story from the Huffington Post (it was originally linked there), and thought it would be interesting for discussion here.

And I am NOT a "he"

[scarletwoman]

35. Hey, Catwoman, the post wasn't about you! Heaven forbid!

The "he" being referred to is the guy who posted reply #6 in this thread -- read that one and all his subsequent posts and you'll see exactly what Peace Patriot was talking about.

Peace,
sw

[CatWoman]

36. oops

nevermind :)

[scarletwoman]

38. LOL!

And wow! I'm IMPRESSED that you found that wonderful pic of Emily Letilla so fast!

sw

[ret5hd]

45. So what would it take to set this propaganda operation up???

( i've posted these ideas before, but no one payed attention, so if it seems silly, not paying attention again will not hurt my feelings :) )

1 paid operative : what, maybe $40,000 yr, if that

5 dial-up accounts (different IP addys and domains, ya know) maybe $15 apiece per month for a total of $900 per year

wow, for a grand total of about $100,000,000 a year (pure chump change to corporatists) you could hire 25 operatives using 125 dial-up accounts and countless usernames on different boards.

Figure a minimum of 50 postings required per day and you have 1,250 postings per day on the subjects you've hired them to cover...

"Gimme some anti-chavez this week. Throw in a little bashing of the Kennedy assasination theories. Next week we'll concentrate on the voting machine conspiracies and the 911 conspiracies. Remember, wherever you go, spread hate and discontent."

Cheap, cheap cheap. Cheapest PR you could buy.

[Judi Lynn]

46. I can't begin to imagine WHY an American would ever be able to get so

wildly hate-filled about a democratically elected leader in another country, without knowing anything whatsoever about him, that he would take time out of ANY day to plague message boards trying to demonize the man. The death references are simply beyond the pale.

I've only seen that urge to murder Venezuela's president acted out in things like this photo of an "opposition" march in Caracas in this filthy poster:

Anyone who sees murder as a solution to any situation he doesn't like is deeply perverted.

[USA_1]

37. THE ARTICLE'S PREMISE IS TOTAL MIERDA

It's just another attempt to demonize Chavez as I'm sure most of you have figured out by now.

[scarletwoman]

39. Of course it is! And everyone but one person on this thread knows it's "TOTAL MIERDA"

For some reason, there's always certain people around here that work hard to repeat all the bullshit, no matter how many times it's refuted.

Always glad to see that someone else gets it -- welcome to DU!

sw

[LoZoccolo]

40. I tend to be pretty anti-Chavez, but I think this accusation against him isn't solid.

It's basically reporting on a rumor circulating about him. I don't really see any evidence to support it.

[scarletwoman]

41. I honestly don't even see any evidence of a "rumor".

There are no quotes, no citations, nothing but one writer's own speculation.

Looks like nothing more than simple pot-stirring to me, but if I missed the "reporting on a rumor" part, I'd be happy to be shown it.

sw

[LoZoccolo]

42. Here.

One of the greatest concerns among the middle class, who increasingly steer their sons towards baseball academies rather than academic college, is that Mr Chávez will close the domestic professional league and restrict the rights of sportsmen to play in America.

[scarletwoman]

43. Pretty thin. Who was speaking for "the middle class"?

This is basically on a par with the Faux News technique of "some say..." We are never told who, specifically, is actually saying whatever it is.

sw

[LoZoccolo]

44. I guess it doesn't matter either way to me.

I'm just more likely to believe a rumor got spread because we see things like that happen all the time here as well (like right-wing forwarded emails or push polls).

[Judi Lynn]

47. I'd like to know more about this British sportswriter who has decided to start

dishing out anti-Chavez crap in his column. He just may be wasted plodding along there in sports, when he could become a great right-wing propaganda mouthpiece, cranking it out every day, by turning to politics full time.



Chavez!

[Judi Lynn]

48. Adding a photo. Or more.