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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:11 PM
Original message
WP - Dana Milbank: Liberals turn wrath on Democrats, too

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060131/REPOSITORY/601310362/1037/NEWS04

Activists rally for Bush impeachment
Liberals turn wrath on Democrats, too


By DANA MILBANK
The Washington Post

The new Washington Post-ABC News poll finds congressional Democrats in the best position they've held in 14 years, besting President Bush and Republican lawmakers on Iraq, the economy, health care, immigration, ethics and more.

All of which can mean only one thing: It is time for the Democrats to eat their own.

Right on cue, liberal activists including Cindy Sheehan and Ramsey Clark gathered yesterday at the Busboys & Poets restaurant and bookshop in Washington for what they billed as a forum on "The Impeachment of President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney." But the participants, while charging the administration with "crimes against humanity," a "war of aggression"and even "the supreme international crime," inevitably turned their wrath on congressional Democrats, whom they regarded as a bunch of wimps.

"Does the Democratic Party want to continue to exist or does it want to ignore what 85 percent of its supporters want?" demanded David Swanson, a labor union official who runs "Impeach PAC" and other efforts to remove Bush from office. Singling out Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada for derision, Swanson said that Democrats who do the right thing "are exceptions."

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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. shut up milbank
who cares what you think
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. he did the samething with Conyers DSM hearings
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Cults4Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. the hypocrisy is stomach churning... Dana is no Liberal he's just another
know it all wind tester who takes to the picket fence like anal sex.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. what a ridiculous and dishonest spin!
right on cue?
progressives have been upset with many Dem 'leaders' over the war etc. for a long time.
And why does he equate impeachment with "eating their own"?

what a load...
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samhsarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. the man who denied Al Gore the presidency in Florida in 2000 (Ralph Nader)
I fucking hate Ralph Nader, but if I remember correctly, wasn't it the SUPREME COURT who denied Al gore the presidency in Florida? Dana Milbank is a lying sack of shit loser.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. the man who denied Al Gore the presidency in 2000 (James Harris)
Edited on Tue Jan-31-06 04:58 PM by JHB
James Harris was the presidential candiate in 2000 for the Socialist Workers Party. Had Florida's SWP vote had gone to Gore, it would have beaten Chim-Chim's supposed victory margin too.

So everything that can be said about Ralphie-boy and the Greens applies EVEN MORESO to Harris and the SWP. The SWP is a fringe party even compared to the Greens! So why are you expending the effort to complain about Nader when you should be complaining about Harris?
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samhsarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. As a matter of fact, I was complaining about the Supreme Court.
Edited on Tue Jan-31-06 05:05 PM by samhsarah
Read the post.
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Idioteque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. Aww dammit Dana don't compare us to Ramsey Clark.
Edited on Tue Jan-31-06 04:27 PM by Idioteque
Ramsey Clark is not a "liberal activist". He is a far left socialist nut.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. How about we turn our wrath on Dana Milbank and the other
smary SOBs that kiss up to the power establishment.
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gumby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. Errors?
Edited on Tue Jan-31-06 04:45 PM by gumby
"..and Kerry got only 25 of the 60 needed votes." Kerry didn't need to get 60 votes, he had to prevent the Repubs from getting 60. Milbank is trying to make Kerry look as ineffective as possible.

".. and the man who denied Al Gore the presidency in Florida in 2000 (Ralph Nader). As has been noted, it was the disgraced SCOTUS that put Bush on the throne.

Despicable.

Edit: And Milbank conflated the groups and people he was writing about with the Democratic Party. Yeah, Cindy Sheehan is the same thing as Joe Lieberman. Sheesh.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. The last decade...
...has produced a remarkable evolution in my political thought.

In the late 90s, I was a supporter of people like Ross Perot and Nader, thinking both parties were corrupt and incapable of change. The amount of information I digested about current events was better than average, but still fairly paltry (easy to accomplish when compared to the "mean" of the typical US citizen). As Election 2000 approached, I came around to supporting Al Gore, and during the Recount, discovered that the media wasn't at all liberal and that Al Gore was actually cool as all hell (though his advisors sucked). The first term of Bush "radicalized" me as I began absorbing more information and realized that my "center", while the center of most educated or compassionate people, was to the left of what the media portrayed and the GOP wanted. It was also to the left of where the Democratic Party seems to stand. As 2004 approached, I was a Dean supporter, and when Kerry won the primaries, I supported him. I gave political donations and my volunteer time for the first time in the 2004 election cycle, in the primaries and then in the general.

I'm far worse off today than I was five years ago, materialistically speaking.

After the 2004 Elections and now, I'm finding myself a strong supporter of the Democratic Party, wanting to change it from within. I want it to be a home to "the guys that drive pickup trucks" just as much as I want it to be a refuge for minorities and the GLBT communities. Like many here, I'd like to see the policies of the DLC think tanks and professional punditry de-emphasized. I don't think timid works for us, and "bi-partisanship" has us ill-served.

But I'm not in favor of purges. A fire in the forest burns the sick trees, sure, but it also kills all the rest of the wildlife. Consider that the Republicans planned for and orchestrated their judicial takeover more than twenty years ago. Youthful exuberance has a tendency to push for all right now. That'd be great, but it's highly unlikely. In fact, by pushing for all right now, I think we do ourselves a disservice and make ourselves ineffective.

In regards to Alito, Bush has been in office for more than a term. We've seen the kind of people he appoints. We know every damn one of them has been a Federalist Society prawn, coached and trained up from before they graduated from prep school. But for five years now, Bush and Rove have been blasting at us with scattershot. Five scandals a day, and we want to throw our energy into fighting every single one with 110% of our energy. And dammit, if the man next to me doesn't find THIS fight, THIS issue, THIS day, as important as I, well then, he must be a traitor, or a DINO.

So I could say here, the REAL scandal is that we suffer from a serious weakness in our way of thinking. Believing in democracy, faith in the "goodness" of man, that every person is worthwhile, that every person deserves opportunity and happiness, thinking that everyone has something important to say. They don't think that way. They have no moral inhibitions about denying someone a voice because they are (pick one) a woman, a minority, a gay, a cancer patient, a veteran. If someone disagrees, they should be silenced or ridiculed. We on the other hand have an inherent moral problem with that kind of thinking, as well we should. The DLC was one attempt at remedying this problem, essentially by adopting deception and triangulation as political tools.

So, the question remains, if even 30% of the people STILL support Bush, what are we to conclude?

Are some people just too stupid to vote? If people weren't easy to manipulate, would companies and governments spend millions and billions of dollars on public relations and marketing? Should we really be spending so much of our revenue fixing two bit problems? (Half a trillion to turn Iraq into Iran) Should we really be sitting on our asses waiting for that ONE PERSON that fullfills all our dreams and adheres to all our positions, and tossing any that do not into the fires?

PEOPLE who do the "right thing" are the exceptions, but admitting that runs CONTRARY to some of our fundamental beliefs.

If MOST people do the "wrong thing", why the hell would we trust in a structure of government so easily run off the rails by the "wrong things"?
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. "Besting (them) on Iraq, the economy, health care, immigration, ethics"?
How? What concrete things have been done? Which rancid Republican policies have been thwarted and overturned?

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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Yes, besting them in the polls that DON'T COUNT.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. Are they operating in reality? Do what?
They can't call for impeachment. The person in that position in the House is a Republican.

Could they know what they're talking about before they open their mouths? Is that too much to ask?

We need a majority. What people need to do is help us get it. Work, people, work! When the Dems are in the majority, and they do nothing, THEN bitch.

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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. and just where do the "people" fall into your equation?
Edited on Tue Jan-31-06 04:59 PM by G_j
Of course the people can call for impeachment!!

that is like saying the people could not call for an end to the Vietnam war, or civil rights activists couldn't call for voting rights.


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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Call for impeachment. Okay. Calling for the Dems to do what they cannot
is weird. It's like the thread that's blaming Dean for the failed fillibuster. It does not compute.

Why beat up on those who are not in a position to do what you're asking? Call for impeachment, but then work for that reality. Doesn't that make sense?
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. just take a look at some voting records
that is one reason why people are disillusioned.

also, IMO, the impeachment demands had to start at the grassroots level to build enough momentum and volume to perhaps become a reality someday.
Most good things do start there in a Democracy.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Okay. So their disillusioned. So fight to get the bastards out.
rather than wasting energy on flogging the minority party?

Like I said, I'm not talking about the call for impeachment. I'm talking about flogging the Dems for not doing something they have no power to do. They can take up the call as well, but they can't DO shit.

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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. keep in mind
this is Milbanks' spin, clearly what he chooses to focus on.
Most of these people have been compiling evidence of war crimes, lies etc. against the Bush admin. first and foremost.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. The idea is to make them say WHY he should NOT be impeached.
I'm for putting forth the question over and over, no matter who is in the majority.

lets make them spilt hairs as to WHY he is not impeachabe by their own Clinton era standards.

In doing so the question of whether Bush "lied" gets into the echo chamber.

This whole "we are not in the majority" as an across the board excuse for not fighting is not working for me.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Kinda like calling for fillibuster when you know you don't have the votes
I take your point.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. No, its kind of like calling the Republicans out on their BS for once.
And we had enough Senators to have a filibuster- but a few refused to listen to the base once again.

Kerry tried to shame them in to doing right- they failed to do so.

This whole "we knew we did not have the votes" is the wrong way to look at things- I'd rather TRY to GET the votes, like Kerry did.

You dont win ANYTHING until you try. That has been my theme all along.

Fighting Bush on this or that even though we have odds against us?

I say we TRY IT anyway- the results just may suprise you.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Gotcha
I'm starting to see what you mean. Forgive me. I'm slow. I generally have to be bonked on the head a few times before I get the point.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I'm just saying "dont rule anything out." n/t
n/t
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. Milbank is correct...
Democrats should not be embracing Clark and Sheehen.

And as much as a Bush Impeachment would be nice, anyone who actually believes it is possible with the current political makeup is living in fantasy land.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. ever get tired of being should upon?
I know I do!
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. "right on cue"? Oh that is such bullshit, we have been criticizing our
own forever. And we will continue to do so forever. That is what separates DU from Freeperland and that is a great thing.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
26. "besting them at the polls" ??? The only poll that counts is election day
and Diebold has that locked up.
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