Jim Webb delivers a face to face smackdown on the chimp

[Virginia Dare]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/28/AR2006112801582.html

How's your boy?" Bush asked, referring to Webb's son, a Marine serving in Iraq.

"I'd like to get them out of Iraq, Mr. President," Webb responded, echoing a campaign theme.

"That's not what I asked you," Bush said. "How's your boy?"

"That's between me and my boy, Mr. President," Webb said coldly, ending the conversation on the State Floor of the East Wing of the White House.

-snip-

I'm not particularly interested in having a picture of me and George W. Bush on my wall," Webb said in an interview yesterday in which he confirmed the exchange between him and Bush. "No offense to the institution of the presidency, and I'm certainly looking forward to working with him and his administration. leaders do some symbolic things to try to convey who they are and what the message is."


OH SNAP!! I would have loved to have seen the look on that little monkey's face. You're not in Kansas anymore shrubby.

Senator Webb, :yourock:

[Nimrod2005]

1. Man, I look forward to many many more of these kind of stories!!!

That's the America I love...

[underpants]

2. Hahahaha

Good job Jim!

[vi5]

3. Absolutely awesome...

This is what we need more of. Good for Webb.

[sinkingfeeling]

4. Super smack down, Senator Webb!

[malaise]

5. Great smack down Senator Webb

:yourock: :yourock:

[crim son]

6. I would have been enraged by the Pretzel's "That's not what I asked

you." Rude sonofabitch.

[livetohike]

24. Typical arrogant bastard

Maybe I would have added, "How's your girls' vacation going in Argentina?"

[Donnachaidh]

7. the more I read about Mr. Webb -- the more I like him!

Especially when he makes Chimpie uncomfortable! Go Webb Go! :headbang: :yourock:

[goclark]

30. He is my kind of Democrat

Don't start crap but no how to speak upp for your family and your beliefs!

[demnan]

8. Hey, Webb kicked ass!

I'm glad he's an ass kicker and not an ass kisser!

[Orsino]

9. Smackdown? Sounds like a mere snub, and a rude one.

Not especially helpful, either. While * has certainly earned rudeness, how did Webb think that his deliberately unresponsive answer to a civil question is going to help matters? I'm glad he opposes the damned war, but Duh Prez operates on glad-handing. * is no politician, and Webb is; I expected better at one of their first meetings.

[beachmom]

13. Actually, Webb wants to get down to business and dispense

with shallow pleasantries. In light of the fact that our troops are dying every day and his son is in the line of fire, it is Webb who was correct to call bullshit on Bush's fake interest in his son.

We need truthtellers in Washington DC. Not glad handlers.

[Orsino]

22. Unfortunately, we also need the cooperation of some of those...

...glad-handers. While I appreciate the sentiments that must lie behind Webb's behavior, it sounds as though he mishandled the encounter, unless he believes that * is suddenly willing to listen to and cooperate with hostility.

[riderinthestorm]

35. Bu$h isn't ever going to "listen" or "cooperate"

He will never be a partner with the Congress and especially not with the Dems. We are way beyond any veneer of civility that you feel a person should show to this pResident.

[Orsino]

43. It's Webb's choice.

He can put a veneer of civility on his interactions with *, or he can encourage * to dig in his heels even more.

[CoffeeCat]

14. You nailed it...

..."Duh Prez operates on glad-handing. * is no politician".

That's spot on. Junior wouldn't know how to negotiate if his
life depended on it. He thinks 'compromise' is a brand of hand soap.

He operates solely on ass kissing. He uses the presidency to bully
and manipulate people. He's like the Scott Farkas ("A Christmas
Story" reference") of DC.

He's the epitome of petulance and immaturity. What did we expect...
diplomacy, intelligence and consensus building?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Virginia Dare]

15. He was a lot more civil than I would have been...

Bush is not a king or a supreme dictator and it's time people started making that perfectly clear to him. His feeble mind is not real receptive to subtleties.

[yellowcanine]

17. What about Bush's snarky response to Webb? Webb responded as a father.

He was not rude. He addressed Bush as "Mr. President." Bush should have recognized that Webb was responding as a father and said something along the lines of "yeah, me too." rather than getting on his high horse and snapping at Webb. How long are people going to make excuses for the inability of Bush to demonstrate a modicum of sensitivity?

[smoogatz]

21. Where's that coming from?

Webb expressed his feelings directly and truthfully--something Bush doesn't get much from his claque of toadys. He was not rude, neither was he fawning--which is clearly the treatment Bush has come to expect.

[Orsino]

27. Ignoring the question put to him...

...was a bit rude, as was rubbing in *'s face the need to bring troops home. It was a friendly inquiry, if not heartfelt, and changing the subject could have been handled more gracefully. And graciously.

"I heard from my son last week. His unit is facing some hard times, Mr. President, and we'd of course like to see them come home as soon as possible."

[smoogatz]

28. Since when is Webb obliged to directly answer every question put to him

by Bush? It is, in fact, a personal question, glibly asked by someone who could care less about the answer (assuming it's not "great!"). I think Webb's response was entirely appropriate.

[Orsino]

29. But not helpful.

I don't think it was particularly appropriate, either, for a senator hoping to win the cooperation of this president. Deals are made at the dinner table, over a beer, and on the golf course, and Webb may have squandered a chance to begin the process.

[smoogatz]

33. Oh, come on.

Bush has said over and over again that he's not withdrawing the troops from Iraq. He just said it again yesterday, in the face of overwhelming evidence that his entire strategy there is rapidly disintegrating. He's not going to "cooperate" with Dems to end the war.

[Orsino]

36. That's precisely why I suspect that * IS looking for a way out.

Congress will have to let him save a little face, though, if they want his help. Getting snippy with him isn't likely to work.

Recall that every day is Opposite Day with *. While we perhaps can't assume that he's already got contingency plans to withdraw troops, his saying the reverse means nothing. The neocons want eternal war, sure, but they might be talked out of this one.

[smoogatz]

39. Must be nice, living in a happy little dream world.

Bush has said over and over--as recently as a week ago--that leaving equals "losing." The lesson of Vietnam? We didn't lose, we quit. He's never pulling the troops out. He's going to let future presidents figure out the exit strategy. I'm inclined to take him at his word.

[Orsino]

42. Well, there's a first time for everything.

* might actually mean what he says, but he has already proven somewhat malleable on the subject of his Iraq war (in defining what "winning" is all about, anyway). The more he insists on victory, the more it begins to sound like a cry for help. Call it "aggressive redeployment in a rearward vector," and we might sell even him.

Eventually. After thousands more deaths.

[riderinthestorm]

34. Webb's son is a sitting duck because of this pRes, waiting to get maimed or killed

That's the most direct answer to Bu$h's question. Frankly, I would be enraged as a parent if I was asked such a glib question by the man personally responsible for the death and carnage and mortal peril of my son (and the other sons and daughters in Iraq).

I believe Senator Webb was absolutely within his rights to tell Bu$h that his son is not up for discussion or glib conversation in order to score cheap political points. In fact, Webb exercised a lot more control than I would have.

If anyone believes that Bu$h is amenable to discussion about Iraq, the status of the soldiers there, their health or anything - over golf??! a beer?! - than I have to say you are being very naive. Getting the soldiers out of Iraq is going to be a brutal messy business by the Congress, led by the Dems, using blunt instruments like cutting off funding or even impeachment (if they can ever find the cojones to stand up and be a true opposition party). We are way beyond faking "nice" or polite. Webb's comment was utterly appropriate and certainly not even rude if you ask me.

[Virginia Dare]

38. No, that's not why I voted for Webb..

I expect no deals at dinner tables, on golf courses or over beers with the petulant Bush. Nothing was squandered. Bush has no intention of brokering any deals with the Democrats just to be friendly. I repeat, Bush needs to be put in his place, and I fully support Jim Webb as my Senator in doing that.

[Orsino]

45. Well, that was probably the effect of Webb's outburst.

Worthless as far as ending the war, but if it gives us our *-bashing jollies, it might at least be fun.

And ensure that Webb will be left out of as much negotiation as is practicable.

[Virginia Dare]

46. I doubt that...

Bush doesn't have that kind of control anymore, he's answering to Democrats in both houses and Poppy's minions in the White House. Webb has nothing to fear in terms of backlash. In truth, the chimp probably didn't remember it even happening by the next day, and he doesn't read the papers, so he's most likely oblivious to the whole thing by now.

[Orsino]

47. I hope that you're right. n/t

[MacGregor]

41. If I'm reading this right...

...Webb should have answered how he originally did, except he should've prefaced with some warm'n'fuzzy Hallmark teevee commercial goodness?

Methinks that's not Webb's style (and I, for one, am glad for that).

[Orsino]

48. I believe that it is his style.

He's probably diplomatic enough for it (even * knows how to grit his teeth and smile). He just got ambushed, and lashed out.

[Virginia Dare]

49. Sorry if I'm reading your post wrong...

but if you're implying that Bush got ambushed, he most certainly did not.

If you go back and read the article, Webb pointedly tried to avoid him, and Jr. sought him out. Webb obviously wasn't interested in exchanging meaningless and fake nicities with the man who had sent his son into a conflict that Webb has stauchly and vocally opposed from the beginning, and I can't say as I blame him for not wanting to make small talk with the man, but that is something that a narcissist could never understand, so he pushed it.

[Orsino]

50. No, I meant that Webb was ambushed. n/t

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

40. Webb didn't kiss butt and Jr got snarky

Out dear Truthless Leader is used to having his ass kissed by everybody. When that didn't happen, he snapped at Webb. Pretty much SOP for Truthless Leader.

[w4rma]

26. Bush didn't want an honest answer. He just wanted a "fine" so that he could use it in GOP campaigns.

Bush was rude as heck and was trying to draw out the polite answer he wanted to hear.

Webb appears to have known what Bush was trying to do, or at least he had a gut feeling that something wasn't right. Sen. Webb responded appropriately. Especially as a father of one of our soldiers in Iraq.

[bpj1962]

44. Not a Snub

Webb's comment was not a snub to Bush. Webb has made it clear that he feels that Bush does not give a damm about the troops except for a photo op or to score political points. This is just a case of the school yard bully finally having to back down. Maybe Bush should go to all the parents, husbands, wifes and children of the men and women serving in Iraq and ask them how their Mother, Father, sister, brother, son or daughter is doing and then maybe he would understand what a colossal fuck up he is. Somehow I doubt it. Sometimes you have to put the political niceties aside and say what you feel.

[Retrograde]

54. that's not how I read it

Admittedly, I wasn't there to hear the actual exchange, and I'm going on the transcript and Bush's history of petulant behavior, but my interpretation is this:

Bush: Asks simple question
Webb: Uses opportunity to bring up larger issue
Bush: Petty response because he's not in charge of the conversation now
Webb: Insulted by Bush's pushiness and condesention, ends conversation

I'd say Bush was the one being rude. The president is "on" at all times, and this was a political event. He's been so isolated by his handlers and protected by the lapdog press that when he finally has to deal with the facts of life for most politicians he has no clue.

[CoffeeCat]

10. Thank God, someone has the cajones...

...to stand up to that little toad.

For some reason, slams like this are few and far between.

I don't know what Junior holds over everyone, but if I was within
ten feet of him, I'd surely be giving him a piece of my mind and
using lots of strong language.

I don't understand how those around him contain themselves. He's
a buffet of failure and idiocy.

Kudos to Webb.

[TechBear_Seattle]

11. I rather wish a Senator with kids in the military would ask His Chimpness...

"How are your girls? Get kicked out of any countries recently?"

"How are your girls? Any tabloid cover-stories on Bush family values recently?"

"How are your girls? Still avoiding any semblance of service to the country?"

Come on, play along! :rofl:

[yellowcanine]

12. On WP radio, Howie Kurtz spun this as Webb dissing Bush. Didn't say anything about

the snarky response that Bush gave Webb. Seems to me that Bush could have easily have kept this exchange on a high note by simply saying, "Yeah, me too" in response to Webb's wish that the troops could come home. But to say that Bush would have have to really want that so it appears that his first priority is not the troops after all. On a human level, it seems to me that if you ask a father about his son you don't snap at him because he gave you the "wrong" answer. Bush doesn't understand that and apparently Howie doesn't either.

[Virginia Dare]

16. Webb had tried to avoid him...

and Bush made a point of seeking him out, it was his own arrogance that forced the exchange. I'm sure he figured that Webb would bow down to his supreme commander, and Webb turned the tables on him. Good for him, I want to see more of that. His cockiness is getting people killed.

[yellowcanine]

19. Exactly. It would have been different if Webb had pursued Bush. He didn't.

Bush has long since passed the poing where he gets deference simply for being President. His is a kind of calculated false civility that doesn't hold up when someone responds from the heart as Webb did.

[Orsino]

37. That does alter my opinion.

While it was still undiplomatic of Webb, he appears to have been taken by surprise--and of course he has reason to feel rage.

[blm]

18. Webb is going to go in as a truthteller and corpmedia will try to tear him down

because of it. That is how they earn their salaries - keeping the truthtellers marginalized in some way.

[Leopolds Ghost]

56. Kurtz attacking Webb -- Go Figure. Remember Dan Rather?

It's all about Webb's attack on the Children of Privilege, of whom Kurtz, in his Cleveland Park mansion, is one.

They'll get him for his Wall Street Journal article.

As they said about FDR, "That MAN is nothing but a... a com-ya-nist."

[The Count]

20. Our charismatic leader strikes again - weren't DU-ers telling us how * is sooo

very charming, a quality that Kerry doesn't have? (Quinnipiac tols us, but many here agree). And my brain scrambles: how was the "bush charm" myth able to be sold for so long....What is charm? I mean, a rat may be charming to certain she-rats out there, I guess...

[tsuki]

23. Bush is extremely thin skinned.

Yet, he creates these openings for others to criticize him, as if, to dare anyone to do so.

Bush does have a God complex.

[YOY]

25. A better reply would be "In unnecesary danger due to your arrogance."

But kudos to Webb for being more of a gentleman than I. That's why I voted for him.

Proud to be one of the 7,000.

[quiet.american]

31. Just having to address the idiot as "Mr. President" would set my teeth on edge.

Go, Jim, go!

[Ha Ha Ha Oh Wow]

32. My kid's getting shot at for oil, how are yours?

Oh yeah they're getting drunk and stoned, running naked down hallways in South America. How's that apple not falling far from the tree thing working out for your George?

[Hidden Stillness]

51. I Like Webb More All the Time

First of all, I am just flabbergasted that anyone would think of Webb's reply as "rude." Rude, how? The question was, "How is your boy?" (and you would think that any real President would have gotten some information from staff first, on where the child of the incoming Senator was now, and how that child was doing, in Iraq, just to show some interest and be able to have a real conversation, but no, that would be taking the attention off yourself for 5 seconds, so, no). The answer then was, "I'd like to get them out of Iraq"; seems like a direct answer to me--they are all in danger there, that's how they are all doing!

I have been more and more impressed with Webb, as I learn more. First, the media tried to pretend that Webb is a "conservative"--then you got the populist, anti-rich-corporate editorial by Webb in the Wall Street Journal; and now this. When you are sure of yourself as a person who loves America, then you have no need to worry about reactions to your criticism of its current anti-American presumed "rulers," and Webb shows exactly this courage. It is not "rudeness," it is an early sign that the corporate/neo-con Republican Party is being ushered out the door, by the next wave of history.

[tgnyc]

52. A FACIAL! I'm glad someone in the Senate is willing to dispense with

the meaningless and downright destructive pleasentries and protocol when dealing with a sociopath like George W. Bush.

[AnneD]

53. I stand behind Webb....

He was polite as he needed to be and truthful to boot. Bush used a classic Rove/neocon strategy. Tried to use the imprimatur of civility to bolster his authority. Frankly, I wouldn't be caught dead at a Bush photo op. Why give the man any more power and credibility than he already has. Webb was avoiding the man for that reason. Bush sought the guy out, did a civil 'dig' and got his hand bit. I respect Webb's honesty. I didn't agree with Goldwater but I respected him because he spoke honestly. These are the kinds of people that you can make deals on a hand shake and make them stick. Hurray for the truth.

[Hepburn]

55. A bit more from another article:

He said he meant no disrespect to the presidency during the reception, but "I've always made a distinction about not speaking personally about my son."

In interviews during the campaign, Webb said it was wrong to elevate the role of one Marine over others. Webb also expressed concern that a high profile could subject a Marine to greater peril.

He wore his son's buff-colored desert boots throughout the campaign, but refused to speak extensively about his son's service or allow it to be used in campaign ads.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_Webb_Bush.html

Gawd, Webb is one hell of an honorable man.

:patriot: