Nightline: Why don't the Christian Right care about the poor & sick

[Erika]

Why have they tied themselves to a tiny fraction of the population involved in gay marriage and abortion and refuse to consider other Christian issues.

Excellent interview done with Rick Warren.

[1932]

1. Because they think they're poor and sick because god is punishing them

for not being fundamentalist enough.

[liberaldemocrat7]

29. capitalist christians who support irresponsible business practices.

These so called Christians turn away from the abuses of Republican aligned businesses and turn away from the plight of people who need help from the government.

These people will eventually go to purgatory and have to endure questions from Alex Trebek for an eternity.

Mr. Trebek will visit during business hours and go back to heaven each day.

[KansDem]

35. Agreed: "Poor" because they don't work hard enough, and "sick" because of their vices...

...i.e., cigarettes, sex, drugs, and booze.

[TrogL]

67. We had a court case here recently

A rapist got off pretty much scott free. Reading between the lines the judge basically said "this man is rich therefore he must be godly therefore you have to forgive him".

[MADem]

2. Because they are really uninterested in walking in the footsteps of Jesus

They'd rather just hector the shit out of people, look down their noses, wag their fingers, and feel superior. It's WAY more fun to be a scolding asshole than being truly compassionate and worrying about the least of our bretheren, eh???

[raccoon]

28. Right on! nt

[mom cat]

36. Walking in those footsteps is hard work. I am thankful for the

Christians who still try.

[justice1]

3. I've thought about making a bumper sticker.

My God is nicer than your God.

[bobbolink]

49. orr.... The Meek Are Getting Ready

:)

[Jamastiene]

50. Please do.

I would love one of those. It's about time people start sharing a loving, compassionate God in the face of the right winger's real master. I have my suspicions about which master the right wing Christians are really serving. They have become so absorbed in bigotry and hatred that it has now become like a poison to them and they can't even see it.

[liberaldemocrat7]

79. Done.

My God acts more compassionate than your God.

http://www.zazzle.com/product/128437098908975994

[LeftCoast]

4. Because that's not the roll they're supposed to play in the republican outrage apparatus

That's all they are. Just a cog in the rw machine.

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. According to their doctrine the poor & sick haven't been "blessed"

with the good fortune that Jesus bestows upon those who pray & more importantly tithe.

[Erika]

11. I guess it was a Reagan thing

Blessed be the rich. All others are lazy scum.

[Webster Green]

6. They are the kind of people that really got Jesus pissed off...

Bible-thumpers and money-changers.

[Rageneau]

13. He called them 'whited sepulchres' -- pure on the outside, corrupt within.

The Pharisees were the Falwell and Robertsons of their day.

[earth mom]

45. Make ya wonder if any of those so called "christians" ever read the bible

in the first place. :eyes:

[Kagemusha]

7. Ok, I really have to point this out...

This is about the Christian Coalition, right? They're not interested in having THE GOVERNMENT care for the poor and sick, because they want churches to monopolize that. They don't want government competition. They DO want THE GOVERNMENT to intervene to stop gay marriage and abortion, because the power of the state is then being used against their enemies in the culture war.

[Erika]

10. The Christian far right is getting way too loony

Many churches refuse tax payer $ to help their charities because they believe it should come from the hearts of the members. The Christian extremists want to eat up every tax $ they can get.

[OnionPatch]

25. If the poor and downtrodden of the world have to depend

on the "hearts" of those members when in dire need, they may as well kiss it all goodnight.

[gollygee]

27. There's a good reason we can't rely on churches

what if the poor sick person is gay? Or they don't like the poor sick person for some other reason?

Would they or could they try to make someone become religious in order to receive help. Could they deny help to me and my family because we aren't religious?

The government is made up of people elected by us and therefore is responsible to us. I don't want a group of people not responsible to me deciding which poor and sick people get helped based on some archaic idiotic notions.

[Union Thug]

8. Because even though that hate Darwin, they love social darwinisim. n/t

[Erika]

9. The responsibility for the stewardship of our environment

was also brought up, as well as Aid victims. The right winger on the show just said he didn't want to turn off the base by straying from the Religious Right Core values?

Unbelievable. Gays and abortions are a minute part of the population but that's who they are going to focus on as the world's problems. Unbelievable.

[orleans]

12. does nightline do any archives? i'd like to see it. n/t

[zanne]

30. Me too. nt

[SoCalDem]

14. Because St. Ronnie convinced them that "if you work hard, you can be rich"

so ..since they think in only two dimensions, if someone's poor, they must also be lazy...therefore they deserve their lot in life. They see their own shortfalls as "temporary" until they get their prayers answered (or they win the lotto)..

ever listen to some of these people? They have the most convoluted tales of woe..nothing is ever their fault, however.

Extreme-religion allows them to "put it all on Jesus", so they never actually have to shoulder any of the responsibility themselves.

the abortion/gay rights/flag-burning/gun-control/evolution/school prayer stuff? just bloody-shirt diversions so they don'y find themselves paying attention to those empty cupboards, the unemployment, the lack of affordable healthcare, the shitty schools, and all the other REAL problems..

[dorktv]

24. Harpers had an article a while back about how Capitalism started out

as a way of soothing those who wanted to make a boat load of money and not actually care about their workers.

It was pretty interesting that Adam Smith was horrified that people twisted his words to say that if you were poor it was because you were not holy enough and if you were rich-no matter what you did-you obviously had God's favor and could do no wrong.

Funny thing was, was did no one among these people think "ya know, Satan moves against God who told us to help our fellow man...but we do not and we use all of that money for ourselves...AHHHHHHHH We are in league with Satan!" Oh wait, that would require people admitting they do wrong.

[xchrom]

15. short answer: they're not christians.

[Catshrink]

20. I call them "old testament Christians"

those who follow the "law" as opposed to "new testament Christians" who follow the teachings of Jesus.

[Critters2]

68. You'd be mistaken

The law in the Hebrew Bible (OT) REQUIRES care for the poor, widow, foreigner, oppressed. For instance, farmers were only allowed to go through their fields one time at harvest. After that, any grain that was left was to be gleaned by the poor. There are lots of other examples. Most of Jesus' teachings concerning the poor were quotes from the Hebrew Bible.

These Relgious Right isn't made up of Old Testament Christians....They're just not Christian at all.

[Neshanic]

16. It always amazes me the edifice complex that they have.

A fraternity brother of my went Fundamentalist/born again big after graduation. He went to a bible school, and became a minister, then hooked up with one of those creepy people born agains; you know the type, as they talk to you they have this shit-eating grin, thinking that they got the "big" in, and you are not in, but they want you to be what they are.

All their time is spent raising money to build buildings. A new sanctuary, a new auditorium, basically an entire complex. This was described to me as their city, their place, where they can be with other godly types; the kind that hold hands and pray before the car gets started on the trip to the Ralphs.

I asked, what is all this for? Millions of dollars on buildings on expensive Southern California real estate spent for what?

To convert people of course was the answer.

I said that what about the Amish? They meet in a simple meeting hall, or school they built.

The answer again was to bring people into Christ, where the like minded did not have to deal with a vulgar secular world.

So I said, if you are trying to get me to be like you, and think like you, and believe like you, and you want others to also, then why are you building a little born again village that only you and others like you would be comfortable in? I would be more inclined to be like you, or belive in what you belive if I knew your Krispy-Creme and coffee bill was not four grand a month. I then said that the Amish with that horrible schoolhouse shooting had more of Christ IN them, then they could ever build around them to show that they have Christ in them. Those parents of those children killed treated the GUNMANS family in such a Christian way, by people who have a teeter-toter in a school yard, then they could possibly wrap their brains around with their indoor pool.

It's just wrong. I never could understand, and no one can rationalize to me the millions spent on a building, on a belief that they will know Christ better because of it, while the person they follow would give that money away; it can't be rationalized with what they believe and what Christ was.

[jaysunb]

84. They are not Christians !

They're cultist ! the same as Jim Jones or David Koresh....plain and simple.

[leftofthedial]

17. American "christianity" is neither

[PVnRT]

18. Because they're "lazy," so they "deserve it"

Of course, I think that applies mostly to the leadership of the Christian right and their more useful idiots, and not to all of them as a whole. There are also plenty who actually do give a shit in some way or another.

[sarcasmo]

19. It's all about Abortion and the Homosexual agenda, silly.

Kick and Nom


If these nuts would care about people and not issues I would view them differently. I am so tired of their HATE.

[alarimer]

21. Because they are assholes

They are selfish people only interested in their own pathological religion.

[lonestarnot]

22. I have been wondering the same thing for about 6 years now.

[THUNDER HANDS]

23. uh, because the poor don't have money to donate

duh.

really, these aren't hard questions folks.

[Jackpine Radical]

26. The answer is simple.

The poor and sick don't have any money.

It's far more profitable to flagellate their followers into a frenzy over fu... uh, sexual issues.

[hvn_nbr_2]

31. Because they got a bad translation

That instruction "Love your neighbor" came out "Judge your neighbor" in the translation they're using.

[bleedingheart]

32. The "Christian Right" has "interpreted" the bible for their own purpose

not unlike others who have done so in the past and will continue to do so in the future.

[Swede]

33. Well abortion and gay hotbuttons is were the money is.

That is what I got from the show.

[Sapere aude]

34. The Christian right adopted the title Christian. They are not the authentic item.

The Christian right follows the teachings of some men and women not the teachings of Christ IMHO.

I hear them on the radio from time to time and they are always using some old testament passage to prove a point. If I remember my bible correctly Jesus said the he brings a new law. That is to love God and your neighbor as yourself. I don't hear much of that out of the Christian right.

They have adopted the teachings of man and called them the teachings of Christ.

[Norquist Nemesis]

37. One reason: $$$$$$$$$

Those are the big moneymakers. Scare the followers with gloom and doom of the destruction of society and ask for money to fight the cause. Then, see who benefits (profits).

Those "leaders" aren't making the mega bucks and living on lavish estates by the Grace of God. It's on the backs of their minions.

[porphyrian]

38. Why don't they act anything like Jesus at all? - n/t

[FormerDem06]

40. I guess you're talking about mega - churches in this thread...

My church has a modest building that is multi-purpose, we're "Southern Baptist" but we teach things the right way. I.E.:

1. Love the sinner; hate the sin
2. Love your neighbor
3. Care for them; regardless of their beliefs
4. Don't force your beliefs on them, live as an example so they'll ask you what's going on.
5. The majority of our church budget is spent sponsoring "Church Plants" in poor areas (the border with Mexico; the rural South, etc. etc.) Reaching out to the poor and the sick I guess.
6. The church is only about 65% white which is higher than the area's general population (i.e. we're not like some Southern Baptists churches that don't want "those black folks" in the church).

Now that doesn't mean that some of the teachings wouldn't offend some on this board; but our minister preaches that all sin is sin. Abortionists, Adulterers, Liars, Thieves are all the same.

I couldn't go to my Methodist Church anymore, they got to the point of "whatever you want to believe is okay". I'm the type that if I'm going to go to church and spend time pursuing my faith, then I have to go to a church that stands for something. But the really, over the top evangelicals just tick me off.

[porphyrian]

41. Jesus never taught hate, of sin or anything else.

I hate that statement, but I'm not claiming to be a Christian. I'm also suspicious of you saying you don't force your beliefs on people followed by "church plants," which sounds like missionary work to me, and missionary work is always religion-pushing.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time or call you a liar, I'm sure you're basically good people. However, I have yet to see something lastingly-good come from focusing on sin rather doing the right thing - if you're doing the latter, you should be too busy to spend time on the former. That's how I see it, anyway.

[Lerkfish]

44. "love the sinner, hate the sin" is codespeak.

its a semantic way for right wing christians to retain their bigotry but deny it at the same time.
Its used when referring to gays ONLY.
I've never heard it used when referring to murderers, rapists or white collar embezzlers.

[porphyrian]

46. I think I've heard it used for other things, too, but you're not wrong.

I can't stand it when people who call themselves Christians say they hate in the same breath. Jesus would be fucking pissed.

[Jamastiene]

54. Jesus would be hurt by it.

Isn't there something in the Bible about bearing false witness? I mean Jesus never even uttered the word hate or anything similar, did he? That just seems somehow wrong for the right wing Christians to use "hate the sin" as a way to cast stones. They are certainly not without sin. That's for sure.

[porphyrian]

56. Exactly what I was thinking. - n/t

[Jamastiene]

53. I have never heard that phrase used any other way except

to insult GLBT people. I agree that it is codespeak for bigotry.

[NMMNG]

74. Bingo

Because the hateful way they talk about gay people shows they don't even like them, let alone love them.

[Lerkfish]

81. precisely. If they TRULY cared about gay people, they'd accept them

with open arms FIRST and then deal with their sins later, like they do with every other heterosexual who walks in the door.
(personally, as a liberal christian, I don't think of homosexuality as a sin, but that's just me).
Every other type of "sinner", they consider it a badge of honor to have drug them across the threshold of the church, so they can start working on saving them.
And, oddly enough, when their clergy end up hanging with prostitutes, its ok they forgive them. But if its a GAY prostitute.......


I am glad I'm not a right wing christian, the amount of cognitive dissonance would totally screw up my brain after a while.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jamastiene]

61. I'm surprised that anti-Methodist post is being allowed to stand.

Seems as though slamming liberal Christians would be grounds for deletion.

I've seen slams by that same poster against Methodists before as well as Catholics.

[FormerDem06]

88. Were you talking about me?

I've seen slams by that same poster against Methodists before as well as Catholics.
=================================================================

Some messages were deleted above so I wasn't sure. To clarify, I was born and raised in a Methodist Church. My mother-in-law is the Education Director for her District in NC.

My problem isn't with the Church as a whole. There are a lot of good Methodist Churches out there. My problem is that in the churches we had a choice of going to (for distance from our house); all of the ministers were young and just out of Duke University Divinity School.

Why would I have a problem with that? Duke has decided to teach some things that I can't reconcile in my pursuit of my faith. One of the ministers told me that she thought that the resurrection was just a "parable". Another also said that It's okay to sin as long as it does God's will. And they're leading a flock?? Both have just undermined the basic tenants of why the church was formed and why it meets.

When we visit my in-laws we still attend their church and can count on good messages each and every time we visit. It's just our local situation that stinks.

[pinto]

59. Yeah, some OTT evangelicals get to me, as well. I appreciate the long

Catholic history in this hemisphere of nuts and bolts action - "good works" in the religious term - on behalf of those without food or housing, in need of medical care or a simple helping hand - outside of religious dogma, with no expectations attached to anyone.

[Duncan Grant]

64. You realize that Southern Baptists are rabidly anti-gay, right?

I hope you won't be surprised that you have landed on a progressive board. Occasionally a "homosexual" like me will respond to a "Southern Baptist" like you.

I'm writing to ask about the "love the sinner; hate the sin" orthodoxy. I don't understand how a religious person can love me and hate me at the same time. Can you say more about that?

You see, I can't equate lying, stealing, abortion, etc. and same sex attraction as similar "hate-worthy" acts. It seems to me that line of thinking should be called fundamentalism. And fundamentalists are a threat to free thinking people everywhere.

Not to be rude but my sexual expression (and my immortal soul) isn't anyone else's business. And because this is a progressive board (and because the founding fathers were better educated than most contemporary Americans) I felt the need to mention it.

[Lerkfish]

65. yup, see my post #44

its codespeak to "god-fearing" evangelicals to mean its ok to hate gay people, as long as you say you hate what they do.
Oddly, they never hate the lies told by the president, they never hate the pedophilia or abuse of their clergy. They never hate abandoning poor or homeless.

see, its a funny thing. If you believe all sin is sin, then evangelicals would or should spend as much time hating murder, rape, theft, fraud, extortion, etc.
But.they.don't.

They only hate "gayness".

[FormerDem06]

87. Maybe I should clarify we're Southern and Baptist, thus the quotes

We're not affiliated with the SBC.

also

======================================================
I'm writing to ask about the "love the sinner; hate the sin" orthodoxy. I don't understand how a religious person can love me and hate me at the same time. Can you say more about that?

You see, I can't equate lying, stealing, abortion, etc. and same sex attraction as similar "hate-worthy" acts
======================================================

I don't hate you. I don't hate your same sex attractions or anybody else's for that matter. You and anyone else are always welcome in our home and in our church. It is not, nor has it ever been my job to judge you or anybody else. According to my faith that is reserved for a time in the future and not by me.

I've never asked about that particular church stance but I will now (and our ministers have not preached on it in the year and a half I've been attending).

See it's a tough dichotomy for our faith right now. Jesus said "It is meant for a man to leave his family and cleave to his wife (i.e. in marriage)". He also said it was a sin for a man to even look on a woman in lust (or a woman for a man). He doesn't really give us guidance on sexuality except for the passages on marriage and lust.

To me it's a private thing. I'm not in your bedroom, and I'm not your judge so what business is it of mine?

[xchrom]

82. there is no such thing as love the sinner and hate the sin.

sin if your talking about cheating at cards, or bringing a dress home to wear to a party and bringing it back for a full refund springs from being human.

we have confession for that -- and that settles the issue -- or for those christians who haven't got it wrong it does.

there is no sin called homosexuality. that's the way people are -- they way they are made in their bones.
it is nature.

following the principles laid out in the sermon on the mount is more or less precisely what determines a christ like life.
no mention of hate there.

and lastly you can not love the bible more than you love and have faith in christ -- that just makes you an idolater.

[pitohui]

39. because it's about the dollar bill

the leadership does not believe in the christian religion per se, they believe that a large number of stupid, hysterical people can have their emotions controlled by working them up over gay marriage, abortion, etc. -- these are not "christian" issues by the way, i defy you to point me a verse in the bible banning gay marriage or abortion, these are not "christian" issues, these are hate issues -- easy to work up hate against gays, uppity women, and so on

people who are easily persuaded to "come to jesus" and believe in a fundy interpretation of the bible are by definition easy to manipulate and extremely stupid, no person with a brain in their head is going to believe that every word of the bible is literally true, being a fundy is taking a test -- and if you pass the test, you have placed yourself in a category of people who are too stupid to think for themselves

this is a convenient category for your leader who can now manipulate you to howl about whatever b.s. he wants you to howl about while he continues to loot the nation's coffers

if you think the likes of pat robertson or jerry fallwell actually believe in a christian god, well, i've got a bridge, they are in business to enrich themselves by grabbing what they can get with both hands, they are con artists working the best long con ever

[Shakespeare]

42. No, the real headline is the growing divide in the evangelical movement.

And that is a very, VERY good thing. This will ultimately bolster the also-burgeoning Christian left movement, and hopefully, ultimately, neuter the angry, hateful Christian right.

[AspenRose]

43. I hope people were paying attention to your post.

Because I get sick of seeing people here asking 'when are you progressive Christians going to reclaim Christianity?' As if that's our right and duty.

News flash: We can't control what the right does, but we can certainly control our progressive agenda of peace and social justice. That's far more attractive to the average American who needs help, and people are finally seeing the difference.

[rman]

47. they are selfish, which they spin as "personal responsibility"

[Jamastiene]

48. Because they like to poke fun at GLBT people and women too

much. They go so far as to call us demonic and try to harm us.

They have become so absorbed in their hatred that it is now consuming them. Their hatred is their own poison and they are too blinded by bigotry to see it.

[Dragonfli]

51. The Influence of Calvinism

And doctrines such as "The Doctrine of Predestination"
A certain type of christian that believes that the wealthy are "blessed" by god - they just do the math on the 'un-wealthy" and it equates to them as "unblessed" - not of the "pre-destined chosen of god" and therefore less than human - damned in fact - playthings for fire and demons..

Similar to the way Puritans thought. A rebirth in fact of many of their beliefs. All these cults have theological roots with Calvin.

[Critters2]

72. Calvin never taught that election had anything to do with wealth

That's a mis-reading by Max Weber, who was not himself "Calvinist". The Puritans also never taught this. Indeed, the descendants of the Puritans--the United Church of Christ--are the most progressive Christians around.

Fundies are critters unto themselves, with roots in the work of Darby, not Calvin.

[oc2002]

52. Because todays Christians are a bunch of Hypocrits.

They act like they believe in Christ, but in fact they are only using him as a tool to control, confuse, while looking self righteous.

They will all burn in hell for eternity for making a mockery of Christ, if there where any justice.

The elites at the top do not beleive in any of it anyway.

[sentelle]

55. $$$

Its because the poor and sick don't give the American Taliban any money.
so the AT says 'screw em'.

Not very christian of them, but thats why I always thought of them as the anti-christ, perverting the word of god, while pretending to be the word of god....

Are you really asking that question?

[GreenPartyVoter]

60. Because they aren't Christians, they're legalists.

[gravity]

62. Televangilists can't milk money from the poor

[calimary]

78. Good one. However, they do help make more poor.

Bilking gullible people out of their money.

I thought Jesus cleared the Temple of these people by force once. Guess they thought the coast was clear - and they slithered back in.

BTW - Welcome to DU!!!

[crim son]

89. Sure they can.

And they do.

[kevinbgoode]

63. Because they really aren't "christians"

It's just a moneymaking scam started by a bunch of latter-day would-be barnyard revivalists who have access to broadcasting airwaves. They figured out if they use the word "christian" and throw together a few bible verses to demonize someone, they can make some money. It's much easier than working for a living. They are. . .what I call "spiritual prostitutes".

[Megahurtz]

66. Because they're Faux-Christians.

They are very selfish and believe that "everybody deserves what they get".

[Alamom]

69. Because the Christian Left "DOES". n/t

[Odin2005]

70. Because they are Calvinists.

[Critters2]

73. Most of 'em aren't

Most come from groups with roots in the work of either Wesley (they get all bothered about "once saved always saved Christians"--code for Reformed/Calvinists) or Darby (all that "Left Behind" BS). The churches with roots in Calvin, the Presbyterian Church (USA) and the United Church of Christ, are comparatively progressive.

[Codeblue]

71. I don't recall a time when

Cristianity really cared about the poor and unfortunate. I remember learning that the Catholic church used to take in and give clothes and food to homeless children in the major European cities during the Medieval era but under the condition that the children would parade around town letting everyone know how generous and caring the Church was.

They've never practiced what they preach.

[NMMNG]

75. It doesn't rile up the masses like gays and abortion

They can't get their churches filled to the brim and their coffers overflowing over the poor and the sick. Eliciting sympathy is no way to do that. Inciting horror, rage and disgust, however, will do so.


Furthermore helping the poor and sick takes real sacrifice like donating lots of money, and going directly to the sick and poor to give them the aid. People don't want to deal with the "unwashed" and the "diseased" doing those things. Railing against gays and abortion providers/abortion seekers by holding signs and screaming epithets is simple and makes the people feel like they're doing something important.

[Initech]

76. The only god they care about is the almighty dollar.

[Quantess]

77. And about hating "sinners". (no text)

[kdpeters]

80. Because they are not followers of Christ. They're Pharisees.

[bobbolink]

83. Actually, a significant number of them are voicing more and more concern

for poor folk, and also for the environment.

The irony is, that if "liberals" can't start being more caring and supportive of poor folk, they will push them right into the waiting arms of the religious right.

[and-justice-for-all]

85. Because it doesnt pay..thats why.

Those clowns are more intrested in issues that they should not open their jeebus freak mouths about.

And Pat Robertson, once the new rep for the CC told him that he wanted to change focus on REAL issues, told the new guy "No". So they dude didnt take the job.

The CC and the likes are only interested in intruding into the private affairs of others rather then doing what they should be doing with their multiMillions. If they took half of them money they take in, there would not a homeless or hungry person in this country. But, they are too intrested in ushering in a fake apocolypse and meddeling in politcal affairs.

[madokie]

86. Christian Right, care, poor

:shrug:

[BlooInBloo]

90. "other". Sheesh.