Mexican pretender Calderon can't be sworn in in public because

[EFerrari]

the people will not let it happen! They won't allow him to appear in public. He was sworn in IN SECRET at the Presidential Palace -- reported this morning on Democracy Now.

John Gibler reports disappearances of APPO protesters in Oaxaca. There is a list of 300 people - 200 leaders of APPO and 100 foreigners -- that are being sought by the "authorities" - not sure if Oaxaca state police or feds or locals, probably state police. These people are pre school workers, nurses, university students and farm workers - working people not professional organizers.

Gibler says that he has been there for months and has not seen 100 foreigners in Oaxaca violating the law. (Probably spin.)

Bush was supposed to attend the inauguration but no one knows if there will be an event because yesterday fights broke out in the Mexican Congress. :evilgrin:

John Gibler reports that the whole nation (Mexico) is highly aware of the uprising in Oaxaca. He also reports that the press and the Mexican government have lied in all kinds of ways about Brad Wills' death in their attempts to blame APPO for it but their lies have been debunked because APPO wasn't using firearms and because the tape Brad shot itself disproves these false allegations.

Denver Post: Mexican leftists say no deal on Calderon's inauguration
http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_4675686

Here's a pix of the brawl in Congress yesterday:


Reuters: Bush's father to attend Calderon inauguration
http://mobile.reuters.com/mobile/m/FullArticle/CPOL/npoliticsNews_2006-11-28T172444Z_01_N28249917_RTRUKOC_0_US-BUSH-MEXICO.xml
(Have fun in the closet, Poppy!)

AP story from Thursday about the tensions in the Capital:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061130/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_new_government_10

Viva Mexico! NO STOLEN ELECTIONS!

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[mod mom]

1. Let the voters decide! Thanks sfexpat for posting this.

[EFerrari]

2. NO STOLEN ELECTIONS!

:hi:

[John Q. Citizen]

3. The Mexican oligarchy trembles at the shadow of their own people!

[EFerrari]

4. John Gibler: Human Rights Observer Held Incommunicado in Oaxaca

Human Rights Observer Held Incommunicado in Oaxaca Prison

By John Gibler

Alberto Cilia Ocampo, a thin 21-year-old university student and regional chess champion from Mexico City, came to Oaxaca to document cases of forced disappearances and other human rights violations on Monday.
Little did he know that within hours of his arrival, he would become the next case.

http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2006/11/80142.html

[Adelante]

5. It's done

Calderon is inaugurated. You can stop pretending otherwise.

[Benhurst]

8. But will the tyrant be able to govern?

[EFerrari]

10. The elites can't really count on BushCo any more, can they?

A very interesting situation and I'm afraid, a very dangerous one.

[Adelante]

11. That has nothing to do with my response to the OP

Which is completely inaccurate since Calderon was inaugurated this morning in the Chamber of Deputies, despite the best efforts of the PRD to stop it happening. George Bush Sr. was there.

As to your question, I would say yes, even with the opposition, since 80% of Mexicans do not support the PRD and AMLO. It remains to be seen, but that's my guess.

[EFerrari]

17. My OP is not inaccurate. They were unable to hold a public

ceremony because the public did not allow it.

And, I wonder, if 80% of Mexico doesn't support this action, where the heck all these people are being bussed in from?

lol

[Adelante]

26. Not true, simply not true

However, your disregard for reality is now clear, so enjoy. :hi:

[orleans]

50. either cnn or msnbc reported he was sworn in at MIDNIGHT

do they always conduct their business in the middle of the night?

what the hell was up with that?

reminds me of bush appointing his cabinet before the 2000 election was DECIDED

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. He wasn't

he was sworn in this morning... after reading the mexican press accounts on it, and yes FOX was there too

[nolabels]

64. Yea, the enjoyment that Mexico has a government that is in shambles.........

with no real way to govern and with eroding support of others from around the world because of stolen elections.
Some way to run a government :shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. Hmm eroding support

so how many nations have broken diplomatic relations?

[nolabels]

74. I cannot substantiate my view about the erosion of support..............

lets just say it's a gut feeling about people who know what is really going on. It took six years to unseat the Republicans in congress (mostly from grass root movement). The establishment now knows Mexico is also unstable in the political arena and will stay away as far as extensive investment goes. The majority of the corporate spoon fed people might be in the dark but that often does not impede the way things unfold south of the Rio Grande.


Democracy and Revolution: Latin America and Socialism Today
Friday, Oct 13, 2006
(snip)
Here it needs to be pointed out that Latin America has an outstanding tradition of popular armed struggle which long predates the Cuban revolution, having its roots in the Independence Wars of the early nineteenth century. It is based on a concept of popular collective insurgency which has nothing to do with militarism or with the ‘individual right to bear arms’ of the US Constitution. The idea of the people taking up arms to achieve liberation is central to Latin American political culture, and it by no means excludes other forms of struggle and participation. It embodies a distrust of institutionalized politics and a radical rejection of all forms of paternalism: rights are gained by struggle, whether armed or peaceful, and not granted by benevolent authority. It is intimately linked to the concept of popular sovereignty, that sovereignty really does reside in the people as a whole and not in the propertied classes or in any hereditary group or privileged institution. The people, moreover, constitute themselves as political actors by collective mobilisation, not merely by passive reception of media messages or individualised voting. The secret ballot is undoubtedly regarded as essential, but as inadequate unless accompanied by mass organisation and mobilisation; and this will ideally be peaceful but may encompass an entirely legitimate recourse to arms if faced with repression or arbitrary authority. Hence the resonance of the term ‘revolutionary’ tends to be positive, unlike in contemporary Europe or North America where it has come to be associated with irrational violence or dogmatic sectarianism. For the same reasons, ‘democracy’ in Latin America is popularly associated with collective rights and popular power, and not just representative institutions and liberal pluralism. The concept is also indissolubly linked with the rights and cultures of oppressed ethnic and social groups, with indigenous, black and mestizo empowerment.
(snip)
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1852

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Was he inaguared in the chamber of deputies

yes or no

That is the question.

if the answer is yes, then the ceremonoy WAS public

[Wiley50]

37. The presidency passed at The Pines at one minute to midnight

fox passed the sash to the military

For those who read spanish:

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2006/12/01/index.php?section=politica&article=003n1pol


Now. If there was another ceremony this morning in Tribune de San Lazaros (mexican congress)
in was for the TV cameras and lasted only 4 minutes

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oaxacastudyactiongroup/message/1994


Felipe Calderon took the oath of office as president of Mexico this morning in a ceremony that lasted four minutes. The house of legislators came to blows several times before he arrived, and the shouting continued throughout with a pause for the national anthem.

The PFP surrounded the building.

The video camera showed Arnold Shwarzeneger approaching the chamber, smiling as if he were about to be interviewed as a star presence. I think the whole thing ended before he got in the door.


This editorial in La Jornada tells the true story and ramifications:

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2006/12/01/index.php?section=edito

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. For those of us who read Spanish

Calderon did not assume the duties of the Presidency until he was sworn in this morning

The ceremony was highly unusual, but Calderon was swon this moning.

Thanks

PS what should make you nervous was that power was trasfered to the armed forces for a few huors

Hell's bells here is what he read to the nation last night... (with translation, and Ed note, this is a public adress, therefore no copyright in it)

Mexicanas y mexicanos:

Muy buenas noches.

Al recibir del presidente Vicente Fox la oficina presidencial inicia el proceso de toma de posesión de la Presidencia de la República.

Since I have recevied the Presidency from President Fox the process of the transfer of power of the Presidency of the Republic begins

Más tarde me presentaré ante el Congreso de la Unión para rendir la protesta constitucional, tal como lo establece el artículo 87 de nuestra Carta Magna.

Later I will be before the Congress of the Union to take the oath of office, as established in article 87 of our Magna Carta

Apelo al respeto a la investidura del Congreso, a la necesidad de fortalecer la vida institucional de México y al patriotismo de los legisladores para que todo se haga con pleno respeto a la Constitución.

I am asking that the Congress's investment is respected, to the necesity of strengheting the Institutional Life of Mexico and the patriotism of the law makers, and that all is done with full respect to the Constitution

No ignoro la complejidad del momento político que vivimos ni nuestras diferencias, pero estoy convencido de que hoy debemos poner punto final a nuestros desencuentros y a partir de ahí, iniciar una nueva etapa que tenga como único objetivo anteponer el interés nacional por encima de nuestras diferencias.

I am not going to ingore the compex plolitical moment that we live and our differences, but I beleive that today we have to end them and startin today, we need to start a new stage that will have as its only obuective to put national interst ahead of our personal differences.

Deseo que la ceremonia de toma de protesta esté apegada a la ley y al respeto de todos y cada uno de los mexicanos que con su voto han dado lugar a esta nueva etapa que hoy inicia.

I hope that the oath of office ceremony follows the law and respect for all and every Mexicoan that has given way to this ceremony by their vote


Estoy asumiendo la Presidencia de la República y con ésta el mandato legítimo de servirte por los próximos seis años y ser Jefe de Estado y Jefe de Gobierno.

I am ssuming the Presidency of the Republic and with the legitinate landade to serve for the next six years as the head of state and head of government

Sé de la complejidad de las circunstancias en que estoy recibiendo el Gobierno de México, por eso desde hace unos minutos he ordenado a mi Gabinete recibir del gobierno saliente las secretarías, cuyo funcionamiento continuo es indispensable, las tareas más urgentes para que la acción de Gobierno no se detenga.

I understand the complexity of the cirumstances that I am receiving the Governemt of Mexico, that is why I ordered in the last few miutes that my government recieve the command of the cabinet possitions essential to the continuing fuctionaing of the government so that work cannot stop. (Essentially these are Defense, Nvay and other security aparaturs which speaks volumes to the depth of the crisis)

Igualmente, del Presidente Vicente Fox recibí la Bandera Nacional como símbolo de responsabilidad que se transmite para seguir trabajando por todos y cada uno de ustedes.

Just the same, I received from President Fox the national standard, that is a simbol of responsosibity that is transmited to continue to work for all of you.

Como mexicano quiero expresar mi más sincero agradecimiento a Vicente Fox, quien acaba de cumplir su mandato con lealtad, honestidad y trabajo para el bien de México.

As a Mexcian I want to express my sincere thanks to Vicente Fox, who has finished his term with loyalty, honesty and work for the well being of all Mexicans

Acepto el compromiso de ser el Presidente de todos los mexicanos sin distingo, sin importar su preferencia política, la religión que profesen, su origen étnico, su condición de género, su nivel de ingreso, su posición social o el lugar donde vivan en nuestro querido país.

I aceept the the duty to be the President of all Mexican, without distingition, It does not matter their political view, their faith, their national orgiing, their income, social poisiton or where they live in the country

Hoy concluye un largo camino e inicia otro.

One large road is finsihed and we have started a new one

Invito a todos los mexicanos a construir un nuevo capítulo de la historia nacional.

I invite all Mexicans to build a new chapter in the history of the country.

Yo creo en un México ganador, fuerte y seguro de sí mismo, orgulloso de sus riquezas naturales y de su historia, de su cultura, de su identidad y, sobre todo, fortalecido con el carácter invencible de su gente.

I beleive in a Mexico that is a winner, strong and self assured, proud of its natural wealth and its history, is culture, its identiy, and above all else, srenth in the invincinble character of its people

México que es capaz de superar las adversidades y lograr para todos, un futuro diferente y mejor.

Mexico is Capable of overcoming all problems for all, and create a better future for all

Desde mi Gobierno seré el primero en demostrar con acciones que ese México distinto, es posible.

From my governent I will be the first one to prove by actions that there is a better Mexico Possible

A eso los invito, a construir un México distinto y mejor, un México ganador.

I invite you to join me in creating a succesful and different Mexico, a Winner

Les agradezco mucho su atención y hasta pronto.

I thank you for your attention and we shall see each other soon



(Don't blame the messenger here, I just trnaslated here)

[EFerrari]

9. Show me the pretense, WesDem. Then, go show it to the

people who have driven the election thieves into their holes.

[Adelante]

14. As I've pointed out, sfexpat2000

Calderon was inaugurated this morning in the Chamber of Deputies. He is the President of Mexico. It may hurt you to see the truth, but there it is.

[EFerrari]

16. Nothing to do with hurting me. My family has seen too many

upheavals in government for idealism or wishful thinking, to be honest.

This guy was inaugurated in an unpublicized, heavily guarded "ceremony" because he doesn't have the consent of the governed.

Ceremony depends on agreement and as of this moment, he doesn't have it, inaugurated, beatified or named block parent. That's a very big problem for the oligarchy that he represents.

[Adelante]

20. He was inaugurated in the Chamber of Deputies

This morning, about an hour and a half ago, in full view of anybody with a television. It was broadcast on every single news channel in Mexico. Get a grip. You are wrong in your OP.

[EFerrari]

21. You get a grip. My OP is accurate. How many members

of the electorate were present?

And, btw, who owns every single news channel in Mexico?

[Adelante]

25. Your OP is WRONG

The electorate is never present at this ceremony. As I said, the PRD tried everything it could to stop the ceremony. However, the ceremony proceeded with a legitimate quorum. Fox was there to transfer the presidential band. George Bush Sr was there. Your OP is WRONG.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. No members of the electorate

are EVER present in the inauguration ceremony in Mexico.

As to who own the Media in Mexico, except for channel 13, privately owned

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

31. I sense happiness in your post. -nt

[Adelante]

40. I just give you the truth

The happiness is what you read into it.

[rman]

42. There's no truth in your suggestion that the OP was pretending

that Calderon would not be inaugurated.

[Adelante]

45. You have a point

I apologize to sfexpat for using the term "pretending."

[EFerrari]

95. The transcript of the Democracy Now! report is available at their

site. That is a source I trust. Whatever misstatements made are mine, not theirs.

www.democracynow.org

[Adelante]

123. I'll give it a shot, sfexpat, on Calderon's "secret" ceremony

Your conclusion from what you heard on "Democracy Now."

Mexican pretender Calderon can't be sworn in in public because the people will not let it happen! They won't allow him to appear in public. He was sworn in IN SECRET at the Presidential Palace -- reported this morning on Democracy Now.

From the transcript, it's perfectly understandable how you made this interpretation based on the sources. I read Jornada almost every day. Its viewpoint is similar to DN's viewpoint. I think they are both wrong in how they report on Mexican politics in that there is too much wishful thinking and not enough objective analysis. Jornada does the same thing La Cronica does from the other side every day: tell its readership what it wants to hear.

AMY GOODMAN: Early this morning, outgoing Mexican President Vicente Fox transferred power to Calderon in a midnight ceremony at the presidential palace. Then, Calderon addressed the nation.

-snip

AMY GOODMAN: David Brooks, can you talk about the significance of what we're seeing right now: in the streets, major protests; Calderon, hidden away, taking power; and the reports in congress right now, riot equipment seen laid out?

Just how "secret" was this event? Personally, I knew it at 5AM when I rolled out of bed and checked the news sites, but I go to bed very early. John Gibler was watching a soccer game with friends and it came over the television when, as Goodman tells us, "Calderon addressed the nation."

AMY GOODMAN: And can you talk about the reaction to the unprecedented midnight ceremony in the president's residence last night handing over power to Calderon?

JOHN GIBLER: Initially, shock and laughter. People -- I was actually somewhere where people were watching a soccer game on television, and immediately the television screen just switched to the national anthem being sung and Fox standing next to Calderon, both of them looking kind of stiff.

So Calderon went on television, issued press releases, addressed the nation, desperately trying to keep it a "secret" that he had received the presidential sash at the Pines from the outgoing president?

This is how it works: The outgoing president is the president until midnight - at one minute past midnight the incoming president is the president. He can do an Irish jig in the middle of the night with the outgoing president if he feels like it. He receives the power of the presidency, no matter what, automatically. The sash is a symbol of that power, nothing more. There is no law against Fox passing the sash separately of the public ceremony in Congress. The Congress does not get to approve or disapprove. The Congress gets to witness a public transference of power on behalf of the people of Mexico, not because the Congress has a say in whether or not that power has or not indeed been transferred. The Constitution calls for a statement in front of the Congress from the incoming president that he has accepted the power symbolized by the presidential sash. That's it.

So why did he do it?

I surmise he did it because, if the PRD had been successful in stopping the public ceremony in Congress and this had ended up in the courts, he would have evidence of having accepted the transfer of presidential from Fox at the moment he actually became president. It has nothing at all, as far as I see it, with some sort of illegal usurpation of government in the dead of night. There was also the issue of whether or not Fox would be present in Congress for the ceremony. This was part of the deal-cutting going on between the PAN, PRI and PRD. The PRI said Fox shouldn't be there, it would only disturb the PRD. There was a time when it was slightly possible the PAN might go for this as a compromise. If this had come to pass, Calderon would not be left in the position of NOT having accepted the sash from the outgoing president, since it had already been broadcast to the nation that he had done so.

The idea that "the people" wouldn't allow Calderon to appear in public is complete nonsense. This isn't "the people" - this is the politicians. This is politics. It's about political strategy. In terms of what went on in the Congress all week, since Tuesday anyway, the PAN had a winning political strategy and the PRD had a losing political strategy.

[Joe Chi Minh]

66. Wes Dem. That's my girl! Yee Haa!

"In another column the next day, Clark summed up the lessons of the war this way: "The campaign in Iraq illustrates the continuing progress of military technology and tactics, but if there is a single overriding lesson it must be this: American military power, especially when buttressed by Britain's, is virtually unchallengeable today. Take us on? Don't try! And that's not hubris, it's just plain fact."

*: "BRING 'EM ON!"

[gorbal]

121. So is Obrador

Who decides who is really president? They didn't alloy a full recount of an extreemly flawed election so who knows.

[EFerrari]

6. CounterPunch: Acclaimed Muralist Among Oaxaca's Disappeared

November 30, 2006
The Arrest of Gerardo Bonilla
Acclaimed Muralist Among Oaxaca's Disappeared

By CounterPunch News Service

The impact of Oaxaca, Mexico's struggle is hitting home. Gerardo Bonilla, painter and friend of many in the Austin artistic, activist, and student communities, was one of 149 arrested this past Saturday in a federal police sweep of Oaxaca city that is increasingly targeting the impoverished southern state's artists and writers. At the invitation of UT student Emiliana Cruz, Bonilla exhibited his paintings at La Pena, in downtown Austin, in October of 2003. He is an accomplished muralist and regularly facilitates and promotes children art workshops in different communities throughout the state of Oaxaca. Prints of some of Bonilla's paintings will be on display at the protest. (Click here for for a photo of Bonilla with his work).

"The Mexican army and police forces have arrested and tortured hundreds of innocent protesters. Gerardo's detention symbolizes the Mexican government's all-out attack on local democracy," said Cynthia Perez, >founder of La Pena.

The current situation has long roots. On May 22, seventy thousand teachers started a camp out in the main square of the city to ask for an increase in their tiny salaries. This camp out follows a nearly yearly ritual, and each year it bore some meagre fruit. But on June 14, governor Ulises Ruiz of the Party of the Institutional Revolution (PRI), who was elected two years earlier under disputed circumstances, sent the police in helicopters to put a stop to the teacher's protest. Many Oaxacans condemned this action and organized to form a broader civil group known as APPO (Asamblea Popular de los Pueblos de Oaxaca) Popular Assembly of Oaxacan Communities.

Since then the situation has not been resolved and has turned into an all-out conflict. Last Monday the tension in Oaxaca increased when the Federal police (PFP) announced a "zero tolerance" policy against APPO members and their sympathizers.

http://www.counterpunch.org/cp11302006.html

[mom cat]

7. Viva Mexico, Oaxaca y Obrador! K&R! What a story! It is far from

over.

[yurbud]

13. k & r: if Dems fight next time, maybe GOP will have to do something this pathetic too

[porphyrian]

12. Kick for an end to stolen elections. - n/t

[Judi Lynn]

39. For sure! Calderon will be all over that!

From the last link in the opening post:

"We have to confront crime with vigorous action," Calderon said.
(snip)

He IS off to a rocky start, isn't he!



Felipe's new friend.

[EFerrari]

15. The SF Chronicle, aka my local fish wrap, is calling teachers, nurses

and health care workers "leftist guerillas" -- trying to tie them to the drug lords AGAINST WHOM THEY ARE PROTESTING! Mendacity on display:

Calderon to take office in Mexico today
Some lawmakers camping in Congress to block ceremony

Trapped somewhere between farce, stagnation and tragedy, Mexico takes a stumbling step forward today as Felipe Calderon takes office as the nation's president.

Little is certain about the day's ceremony or the next six-year presidential term. Even whether Calderon will be able to put on the presidential sash is in doubt, with opposition lawmakers camping out overnight in Congress and preparing to physically block his inauguration.

The nation's problems are daunting: Leftist guerrillas are organizing in the south, violence by drug cartels is at an all-time high and political gridlock is likely to block progress in Congress on badly needed economic, political and social reforms.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/01/MNGCRMNCIL1.DTL&feed=rss.news

[mom cat]

24. Economic reforms --- read: draconian neo=liberal oppression of

the poor.

[FogerRox]

29. Drug cartels=CIA=Wall Street

[rman]

47. of course, not a word on RW terrorism organized from up high

History of Dirty Tricks: (Pt. 2) How to Colonize a Larger Country
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2832851&mesg_id=2832851

[mopinko]

18. reminds me so much of jan 2001

*, telling the ss to gun it, and get him past the eggs flying his way.
when people are scurrying like mice to an inauguration, you know they are not legitimately elected. period.

[orleans]

56. exactly. (and well put i might add) n/t

[Solly Mack]

19. Recommended

Love the picture

Elections (along with the courts) are the voice of the people - steal or corrupt either and our voice is also stolen.

[shance]

22. HW Bush attended the reception for Calderon?

More information on who's running the ship.

It's not his son.

It never has been.

[EFerrari]

23. I've got to go walk the monster puppy. Please keep kicked

and add news as you can.

:kick:

[meganmonkey]

27. Will do!

Wow wow wow!!!

Rec'd!

:patriot:

[UTUSN]

28. Uh, what I saw this A.M. was in PUBLIC: Quorum of congress, the

presence IN FRONT OF CONGRESS in session of both CALDERON *and* FOX----and the OATH OF OFFICE, the sashing of the sash, the singing of the national anthem, and the adjournment of the session of congress. This was all in public. Whatever ceremony was held yesterday, the requirements of the Mexican constitution were observed this morning.

Sorry to disagree with you, sfexpat2000, 'cause I've got a soft spot in my heart for you. And just to be specific, what I am explicitly disagreeing ABOUT is the o.p.'s thesis that the oath did not occur IN PUBLIC.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2839934

[UTUSN]

80. What I saw was DEMOCRACY - loud, ugly, democracy n/t

[slackmaster]

33. I'm appalled that so many here state as a fact the election was stolen

The procedures dictated by Mexican law and the Mexican constitution were followed, and determined Calderon to be the winner.

Clearly there was cheating, as there has always been in Mexican elections. But to call Calderon a "pretender" without information to prove it seems irresponsible.

What you are calling "the people" of Mexico is a minority, no more than 1/3 of the population and likely far less.

The present circus will serve only to polarize people even more.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Well reality is not something the locals

want to face

Calderon won by a very narrow margin, but the maneuvers from AMLO really turned many of those who voted for him against him.

I spent the week after the elections in Mexico City due to a family emergency, and it was incredible to see the process in the flesh

[liberalpragmatist]

43. Don't you know?

Anytime a progressive loses anywhere it MUST be because of cheating.

Even here in the US in '06, despite the fact that we won, we would have won even BIGGER if it hadn't been stolen :eyes:

[rman]

49. that's not the reason

It's just what RW-ers say to try and discredit claims of election fraud.

[orleans]

57. sounds like someone needs a refresher course in the 2000 and 2004

election.

or did i misunderstand your sarcasm

[liberalpragmatist]

77. 2000 was stolen

2004 was very fishy and there was plenty of voter suppression but ultimately we don't know because you can't count votes that weren't cast.

And Florida-13 this year was probably stolen as well.

I also support full verifiable voting and a paper trail, plus mandatory, hand recounts when the margin of victory is less than 1%.

But as for Mexico - there do seem to have been irregularities and some low-level fraud in Mexico. But there was a constitutional and legal process and they affirmed that Calderon won.

By all means, if his social policies are bad, confront them and work to defeat him. But I value the rule of law and the judicial process.

[diane in sf]

82. we know it was stolen

because of the discrepancy between the exit polls and the reported vote. Anyone with a modicum of training in statistics knows that every difference between these two should not have gone to Bush's vote count.

[druidity33]

85. whoah there now...

the Mex Supreme Court only did a 1% recount of the precincts that went primarily to Calderon. Whereas Obrador had many pieces of evidence to suggest Election fraud in SPECIFIC precincts and areas... none of which were investigated. This evidence was ignored and the Court refused to go any further in the recount. (of which by the way Obrador gained 10 to 14% of that 1% recount tally, despite those precincts being chosen because of the fact that they were districts that were expected to lean towards Calderon)

According to Obradors camp and other Mexican critics of Calderon, Obrador would have won the election by at least 8% if the votes were counted accurately. You call that "low-level" fraud?

This election cycle had absolutely NOTHING to do with the "rule of law", if you had been paying attention since it started you would know that. And as far as judicial process is concerned do you really think the Mexican judges are playing fair? That they don't have interests that would warrant keeping the Status Quo in place? Maybe you really are a pragmatist, but for your sake i hope you're not as gullible as you sound, because that's a rough combination.

Sorry, not trying to offend, just angry over the situation and some of the comments on this thread.

:shrug:

[liberalpragmatist]

101. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

From what I had read, I had hoped there would have been a full nationwide recount. I don't think the Mexican judiciary are saints, but nevertheless, I do believe in following a constitutional process, which implies sometimes submitting to decisions one disagrees with.

The correct strategy for AMLO and his followers would be to consolidate their support in Congress and use that to prevent Calderon from implementing a right-wing agenda, as well as laying groundwork for 6 years down the road.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

61. No. You don't see people saying Colombia, Germany or Australia were stolen.

When it smells bad, we say "ew." When it doesn't, we don't.

[rman]

48. Here's the evidence

The evidence is in the statistical improbability of last minute results from remote districts coming in at up to 100 to 1 in favor of Calderon, while the first 95% of results were approximately 1 to 1, several % in favor of Obrador.



Note how it took 11 hours to count the last 2.3% that gave Calderon his 0.58% victory - almost as long as it took to count the first 90% of the votes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_general_election%2C_2006

[slackmaster]

53. Easily explained by Mexico's geography and demographics

Support for the left is strongest in the southernmost, and therefore eastern areas of the country.

The PAN started in northern Baja California, which includes the major city Tijuana. BC Norte is still a major PAN stronghold. That part of the country is the most capitalist.

The southeastern parts of the country are in the Central time zone. Because the polls close first, they start returning results first.

Tijuana (in fact all of BC) is in the Pacific time zone, so polls there closed two hours after the first ones closed down south.



The evidence is in the statistical improbability of last minute results from remote districts coming in at up to 100 to 1 in favor of Calderon, while the first 95% of results were approximately 1 to 1, several % in favor of Obrador.

The statement is baseless. It assumes even distribution of party loyalty throughout the country, which is clearly not the case. And there were more than two candidates in the race. It's not surprising at all that the last votes counted went heavily in favor of the PAN.

[rman]

59. It assumes that distribution of party loyalty of 100 to 1

in the very last few districts to be counted is exceedingly unlikely.

I think that's not an unreasonable assumption.

[Greyhound]

62. Sounds just like the repukes excuses for the election anomalies

favoring * almost exclusively. Mathematics and statistics experts say overwhelmingly that this is simply not possible, yet so many are willing to go along because it is easier than doing what is required of a patriotic population to secure their liberty.

Shameful.

[slackmaster]

63. Sounds like 1/3 of Mexico's population has a share of sore losers

Who are trying to steal the election because it didn't go their way.

[Greyhound]

67. Ignoring, for the moment your apparent inability to count and understand fractions,

how does this relate, in any way, to the topic?

I mean thanks for the kick and all, but :wtf:

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. The votes were recounted

also I spent some time IN MEXICO CITY and the behavior by many in the PRD turned off many of their voters.

You and I may argue about the method to the recount but anomalies and anomalous votes were found on both sides

What would have been best is for the election to be nullified, a president appointed for two years and do this all over again

It was not, the election was certified.

It was close, but was certified.

By the way these are not excuses and if you think Obrador will be able to do all his program for the first two years, NOPE, the opposition pretty much holds the Congress, but they are in danger of angering even their followers if they block everything. This is the political reality on the ground, so how are things in your world?

[Greyhound]

73. Same old, same old. I think it is quite clear what class you represent.

So nothing will change in Mexico, the people will continue to be abused, and they will have to continue exporting their surplus population, and the ruling class will continue to grow their ill-gotten gains.

Over here in Greyhound world, I will continue to get along with the south-of-the-border economic refugees, and continue my preparations to get the pack out of the cesspool that is the new amerika, where I can watch the misery expand to the boiling point and explode from a safe distance.

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. What same old

the facts are the ones I gave you

You don't like them

As I said, even the mexican press was asking for an iterim president and election nulification, so exactly what class do they represent? I mean it was not the Jornada, but every major paper in Mexico City.

Sorry if I am not playing your game

By the way... I spent ten years working as a medic in Mexico, not for a private company, but for the Red Cross. I think I have a smidgen better of an idea of what conditions exist in Mexico...

But you keep assuming. I have actually gotten my hands dirty for social justice and continue to do so.

[bicentennial_baby]

65. They must have learned something from PRI

They know all about stealing elections...

[malaise]

102. Then I suggest you study

the sudden switches in the polls.

[slackmaster]

124. My opinion is different than yours, therefore you ASSUME I haven't studied it

:eyes:

[Vidar]

35. K&R.

[chill_wind]

36. Kicking it up! nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Soemtimes they get lost in the shuffle

so here is what he said last night in translation

Calderon did not assume the duties of the Presidency until he was sworn in this morning

The ceremony was highly unusual, but Calderon was swon this moning.

Thanks

PS what should make you nervous was that power was trasfered to the armed forces for a few huors

Hell's bells here is what he read to the nation last night... (with translation, and Ed note, this is a public adress, therefore no copyright in it)

Mexicanas y mexicanos:

Muy buenas noches.

Al recibir del presidente Vicente Fox la oficina presidencial inicia el proceso de toma de posesión de la Presidencia de la República.

Since I have recevied the Presidency from President Fox the process of the transfer of power of the Presidency of the Republic begins

Más tarde me presentaré ante el Congreso de la Unión para rendir la protesta constitucional, tal como lo establece el artículo 87 de nuestra Carta Magna.

Later I will be before the Congress of the Union to take the oath of office, as established in article 87 of our Magna Carta

Apelo al respeto a la investidura del Congreso, a la necesidad de fortalecer la vida institucional de México y al patriotismo de los legisladores para que todo se haga con pleno respeto a la Constitución.

I am asking that the Congress's investment is respected, to the necesity of strengheting the Institutional Life of Mexico and the patriotism of the law makers, and that all is done with full respect to the Constitution

No ignoro la complejidad del momento político que vivimos ni nuestras diferencias, pero estoy convencido de que hoy debemos poner punto final a nuestros desencuentros y a partir de ahí, iniciar una nueva etapa que tenga como único objetivo anteponer el interés nacional por encima de nuestras diferencias.

I am not going to ingore the compex plolitical moment that we live and our differences, but I beleive that today we have to end them and startin today, we need to start a new stage that will have as its only obuective to put national interst ahead of our personal differences.

Deseo que la ceremonia de toma de protesta esté apegada a la ley y al respeto de todos y cada uno de los mexicanos que con su voto han dado lugar a esta nueva etapa que hoy inicia.

I hope that the oath of office ceremony follows the law and respect for all and every Mexicoan that has given way to this ceremony by their vote


Estoy asumiendo la Presidencia de la República y con ésta el mandato legítimo de servirte por los próximos seis años y ser Jefe de Estado y Jefe de Gobierno.

I am ssuming the Presidency of the Republic and with the legitinate landade to serve for the next six years as the head of state and head of government

Sé de la complejidad de las circunstancias en que estoy recibiendo el Gobierno de México, por eso desde hace unos minutos he ordenado a mi Gabinete recibir del gobierno saliente las secretarías, cuyo funcionamiento continuo es indispensable, las tareas más urgentes para que la acción de Gobierno no se detenga.

I understand the complexity of the cirumstances that I am receiving the Governemt of Mexico, that is why I ordered in the last few miutes that my government recieve the command of the cabinet possitions essential to the continuing fuctionaing of the government so that work cannot stop. (Essentially these are Defense, Nvay and other security aparaturs which speaks volumes to the depth of the crisis)

Igualmente, del Presidente Vicente Fox recibí la Bandera Nacional como símbolo de responsabilidad que se transmite para seguir trabajando por todos y cada uno de ustedes.

Just the same, I received from President Fox the national standard, that is a simbol of responsosibity that is transmited to continue to work for all of you.

Como mexicano quiero expresar mi más sincero agradecimiento a Vicente Fox, quien acaba de cumplir su mandato con lealtad, honestidad y trabajo para el bien de México.

As a Mexcian I want to express my sincere thanks to Vicente Fox, who has finished his term with loyalty, honesty and work for the well being of all Mexicans

Acepto el compromiso de ser el Presidente de todos los mexicanos sin distingo, sin importar su preferencia política, la religión que profesen, su origen étnico, su condición de género, su nivel de ingreso, su posición social o el lugar donde vivan en nuestro querido país.

I aceept the the duty to be the President of all Mexican, without distingition, It does not matter their political view, their faith, their national orgiing, their income, social poisiton or where they live in the country

Hoy concluye un largo camino e inicia otro.

One large road is finsihed and we have started a new one

Invito a todos los mexicanos a construir un nuevo capítulo de la historia nacional.

I invite all Mexicans to build a new chapter in the history of the country.

Yo creo en un México ganador, fuerte y seguro de sí mismo, orgulloso de sus riquezas naturales y de su historia, de su cultura, de su identidad y, sobre todo, fortalecido con el carácter invencible de su gente.

I beleive in a Mexico that is a winner, strong and self assured, proud of its natural wealth and its history, is culture, its identiy, and above all else, srenth in the invincinble character of its people

México que es capaz de superar las adversidades y lograr para todos, un futuro diferente y mejor.

Mexico is Capable of overcoming all problems for all, and create a better future for all

Desde mi Gobierno seré el primero en demostrar con acciones que ese México distinto, es posible.

From my governent I will be the first one to prove by actions that there is a better Mexico Possible

A eso los invito, a construir un México distinto y mejor, un México ganador.

I invite you to join me in creating a succesful and different Mexico, a Winner

Les agradezco mucho su atención y hasta pronto.

I thank you for your attention and we shall see each other soon



(Don't blame the messenger here, I just trnaslated here)

[Bridget Burke]

55. Why do you keep posting Calderon's address?

It's hardly remarkable.

Please--tell us why YOU think he's the best man for the job!

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. None of the candidates were the best

that could have run... period... AMLO was no saint, and Calderon has his problems and Madrazo, he is an incompetent boob. This was truly an election where none of the above was the best candidate running.

On edit I posted the adress since most DU'ers DO NOT read Spanish.

you have a problem with that?

[mogster]

44. Good post!

Viva Mexico!

[emlev]

46. Link to today's detailed Democracy Now! segment on this and Oaxaca

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/01/1456203

They do a better job of covering the stolen election in Mexico than stolen elections here.
(I love DN! but wish they'd do better coverage of election integrity issues here.)

[rman]

51. DN seems to be of the school of though

that "it can happen over there but it can't happen here".
Still they report a whole lot more and are a whole lot more accurate on many things than the corporate MSM do.

[Judi Lynn]

52. NY Times: Calderon Is Sworn In as Mexico’s President

Calderon Is Sworn In as Mexico’s President

By JAMES C. McKINLEY Jr.
Published: December 1, 2006



MEXICO CITY, Dec. 1 — It was not pretty, but Felipe Calderón, the new president of Mexico, managed to take the oath of office in congress today, while leftist lawmakers whistled and catcalled and the losing leftist candidate staged a huge protest march down the central avenue of the capital.

Mr. Calderón and members of his conservative National Action Party defeated attempts by the leftist Democratic Revolution Party to block the entries to the congress. With his own partisans crowding the dais, the new president and his predecessor, Vicente Fox, were spirited in by bodyguards through a door near the front of the chamber at 9:50 a.m.

Mr. Calderón quickly took the oath of office, and Mr. Fox handed over the traditional presidential sash and left the chamber. The entire ceremony lasted four minutes.

All the while, opposition politicians blew whistles and held up banners suggesting Mr. Calderón was “a traitor to democracy.”
(snip/...)

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/01/world/americas/02mexicocnd.html?hp&ex=1165035600&en=f7722bf56c57560a&ei=5094&partner=homepage

(Doesn't look like a very happy occassion, and with good reason.)

[slackmaster]

54. At least it's over with now

Here's to peace returning to Mexico.

:toast:

[BluePatriot]

58. Thanks for all the attention to this.

This is so underreported in the MSM and I really appreciate being able to find things on DU about it.

[Bridget Burke]

60. Oh, but everything's OK now!

Let's ignore a bit of midnight skulking.

On September 5, 2006, Calderón was unanimously declared President-elect by the Tribunal with a lead of 233,831 votes or 0.56% over López Obrador. The electoral court concluded that there were minor irregularities before and during the election, but these were not enough to invalidate the election The ruling was mandatory, final, and could not be appealed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felipe_Calder%C3%B3n

Surely, "minor irregularities" can be overlooked in the face of such an overwhelming mandate!

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. Hmm iregularities were found ON BOTH SIDES

that is why the Mexican Supreme Court did not invalidate the election.

Sorry, I followed the whole mess in the Mexican Press where even the press, ranging from left to right, asked for election to be invalidaed if those irregularities were mostly on one side. Alas they were not.

But I am sure you knew that

[livvy]

76. Unless their press is more honest than ours, I would .....

take their reporting with a truckload of salt,


or a very large shovel.



Just sayin'.

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. Their press used not to be better

but now it is far better.

Hell the excelsior, a right of center paper shocked me after 2004... they had a five column two spread page article on what went on in OH before anybody North of the border would speak of it above a whisper, as in two weeks after the election. It was based on their reporters on the ground

[cal04]

75. some pics from Mexico

Opposition lawmakers block the main entrance to the National Congress to try to stop the arrival of president-elect Felipe Calderon


Lawmakers scuffle at the National Congress as as some try to block the arrival of president-elect Felipe Calderon

[Peace Patriot]

78. Thanks for the pix! That's an awesome sized crowd! Calderon represents

the rich, the corporatists, the exploiters. The vast majority of Mexicans are poor, many of them extremely poor, especially the poor indigenous of the south and the poor in shantytowns in Mexico City. It's a no- brainer that Lopez Obrador won. There weren't enough rich people and well-off people to vote Calderon in. So they fixed it in the dead of night, by ridiculous totals coming in for Calderon at the last minute (100 to 1--no way). Stinks to high heaven. They didn't do a proper recount. They just added up the already tabulated results again. They didn't look in the ballot boxes. Then it was all done with central electronic tabulators, as here. (And I heard that Calderon's brother has an interest in that e-voting corporation.)

I have no doubt at all that Calderon does not represent the majority. And the model he is following--of Gov Ruiz in Oaxaca, and George Bush--is very worrisome. What Ruiz and the Fox/Calderon federales are doing in Oaxaca is horrible. They are backing the paramilitary murderers of at least 17 people--and the perps of kidnappings, torture, rapes, disappearances. They are punishing people severely for their entirely peaceful protest.

This is fascism. And the legislators who tried to block this fascist's investiture are heroes!

Apparent disorder is sometimes needed to put things right--and to break the silence that false order tries to impose. I applaud the disorder of these legislators! I wish we had people like that representing us, who will not be silent and will not sit back and remain inactive in the face of fascist rule.

Someone upthread said both sides cheated. Bullshit! The election commission cherry-picked what to look at, and did not do a real recount, because they knew what they would find--that the Calderon cheating was significant, and that Lopez Obrador likely won. This .05 "win" by Calderon is absurd, in those circumstances. Corruption can be the only reason there wasn't a re-vote.

Someone also said that "Lopez Obrador" is no saint. And Calderon is an incompetent. The choices were bad. I'm sorry, but this just isn't true. There is no evidence at all that Lopez Obrador isn't an excellent public servant who works in the best interest of the majority--the vast poor population. What is the basis of saying he is "no saint"? What does that mean? It is meaningless. He is honest like Abraham Lincoln was honest--a true man of the people, not into personal wealth and corruption. He identifies with the poor, and they are the majority.

Calderon is the hand-picked boy of the Corporate Rulers and the Bushites. He is no more representative of Mexico than George Bush is of the U.S. He may hold the sash of office. He may possess the power to CS gas the people of Oaxaca, and smash them up, and disappear them into Ruiz's prisons. That does not make him Mexico's leader, its heart and soul. He is a fraud. And just like the Corporate Rulers did with Bush, they had to force him upon Mexico by nefarious late night schemes wherein the popular candidate loses and the Corporate tool wins.

It's disgusting.

[countryjake]

84. Well said!

[Jcrowley]

110. Yes

Clearly stated and astute.

[MisterP]

79. Calderon will end his term either as a vegetable or a new Maximiliano I

[UTUSN]

81. Have I told you LATELY that I love you?? n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

83. Freepalicious.

[Roland99]

86. Too bad the only thing Frat-Boy had to endure were some eggs hitting the Presidential limo.

[lonestarnot]

87. Wooodamnwhoo! PEOPLE!

Keep that freak in hiding!

[josewelder]

88. Calderon was Sworn in Legally and in Public

I live in Mexico City. I watched my wife deposit her paper ballot into a sealed box. I saw that there were representatives form all parties at the voting station. I spoke with two individuals sent from Canada to monitor the vote. Both explained how in their opinion this was one of the most fraud free elections(I am only referring to the actual voting process) they have seen and how difficult it would have been to manipulate the results.

Yesterday my family and the majority of the people I know(Rich, poor, other)stayed at home for fear that there would be a problem. Schools were not in session, banks and business were closed for the day. It is very easy for you sitting far away to say how wonderful a big problem would have been for the people of Mexico. I have even heard some post on other threads that a revolution would be just great. Neither really seems all that appealing when you are living in the place where the events threaten to occur. I do not think a bloody revolution is the way to go.

I believe that Calderon won. I hope that the PRD coming so close will make all other parties take note that they cannot ignore the lower economic class anymore, that Mexico is now a semi-functional democracy(much like the USA), and that poor people vote and need to be taken care of and taken into account in the party politic, or that party will lose. Hopefully this process will continue and Mexico will continue to evolve socially and economically to become a better place for all Mexicans to live together in peace and prosperity.

[UTUSN]

91. Excellent, reality-based, experiential post & welcome to DU!!1

Thank you for your first hand knowledge, as opposed to the posts that have been WISHING FOR VIOLENCE (far far away from where THEY live).

Yes, there is a small, vocal contingent here of theoretical idealists who see through a filter. Funny, also, how, idealists that they supposedly are, they will ATTACK anybody who attempts to present a different point of view.

The U.S. & the Mexican political system and party alignments are NOT the same. The PAN is NOT the Rethug party. FOX/CALDERON is NOT Shrub. FOX refused to join Shrub's aggression in violating the sovereignty of a country. FOX exhibited restraint in dealing with the civil disobedience in Oaxaca. This Mexican outcome is NOT our 2000.

A post in another thread responded to the description of the relatively placid whistle-blowing, opposition (that ceased while EVERYBODY sang the national anthem): "Sounds like democracy to me." That's it.

Repeating, observers from the European Union and other international entities found that whatever fraud there was was not sufficient to change the result. And to deflate, yet again, another of the canards being repeated endlessly here: The PRD protesters are a MINORITY OF A MINORITY. They do NOT represent THE PEOPLE OF MEXICO. In fact, the PRD has been losing supporters the more AMLO became more intransigent.

[spoony]

93. Welcome to DU and thank you

for your first hand account. I hope that peace prevails in your country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. Thank you for a first hand account

not that this will stop the idealist and theorists from whishing for a civil war or revolution

[undeterred]

89. Was he sworn in on the Koran or the Bible or something else?

Civilization is at stake.

[josewelder]

90. Sworn in

No he was not sworn in on the Bible or the Koran. There is still a legal seperation between Church and State in Mexico. Hopefully this line will not blur. One of my concerns about Calderon is that he will try to give more power to the Church in Society. Mexicans should be wary of this as I beleive it has been one of the main factors in the poor politics of the USA in the last decade.

[undeterred]

94. Welcome to DU!

There is a newly elected congressman from Minnesota who is Muslim and says that the wants to be sworn in on the Koran rather than the Bible, and some of the right wing talk shows were making a big deal out of it. Turns out that when the oath of office is taken, no book is usually used (maybe for president it is?) But people seem to be forgetting that we elect the people to protect the Constitution, not their religion.

I could see it having symbolic value in a less diverse society, at least in times past, but right now its downright dangerous.

[lonestarnot]

96. Thanks for that observation. Church goers have certainly been deceived.

Church does not belong in State business. Our founding fathers had it right. The Unitary Executive has tried to convolute the text of the very Constitution into meaninglessness. We are here to see that that does not happen.

[Nothing Without Hope]

92. K & R for this important post n/t

[UTUSN]

97. Focusing on the o.p. ... at least 8 misstatements regarding the inauguration

1. “pretender” - FALSE.

2. “can’t be sworn in in public” - FALSE.

3. “THE PEOPLE” - the PRD does not speak for the Mexican PEOPLE.

4. “will not let it happen” - FALSE.

5. “They won’t allow him to appear in public” - FALSE.

6. “was sworn in IN SECRET” - FALSE.

7. “Bush was supposed to attend” - I will verify

8. “no one knows if there sill be an event” - FALSE.

[countryjake]

103. Hmmm...are these not Mexican people?

Why are they there, I wonder?

[UTUSN]

105. The Zocalo is a big place, all right (I've been there, have you?), but the #s

who fit there do not equate with the (ENTIRE) "Mexican people." The AMLOistas who blockaded the central business/tourist district for weeks/months pissed off the WORKING people and businesses who couldn't get to their work.

[josewelder]

108. Old Photo

Yes those are Mexican people. However I seriously doubt that this picture is from Dec 1, 2006. It appears to be from the earlier rallies in July, August. SInce then most people here have tired of AMLO and his cause. In my opinon the main reason they have tired is that they have realized that it is his cause and not theirs.

[countryjake]

113. Not an old photo, at all. These protesters don't look very tired to me....

Thousands of supporters of Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador stand at Mexico City's Zocalo square during a rally against Felipe Calderon, December 1, 2006. Calderon took over as Mexico's president on Friday and pleaded for an end to months of unrest over his narrow election win, but a huge brawl erupted in Congress where leftist opponents vowed to block him from taking the formal oath of office. (Daniel Aguilar - MEXICO/Reuters)

Tired of being disfranchised, yes. Tired of pols who do not represent them, yes. Tired of getting up, getting out, & expressing that...nope!

[EFerrari]

104. Go read the transcript at Democracy Now which is publicly

available. www.democracynow.org

Then, get back to me. Why in the world would anyone even try to mislead DU? I don't think that's even possible.

Come on, UTUSN, we can do better than this. How does name calling advance this conversation?

[josewelder]

106. You were wrong Admnit it

Why can you not admit that your opening statement in this thread was wrong?

Why do you imply that Mexico needs a revoultion?

Do you like the idea of blood flowing in the streets in Mexico?

Will you somehow become empowered sitting in your living room preaching what is right while people die here?

Why don't you accept the fact that all sides of the press lie, mislead, or makle errors on occasion in all countries?

Why don't you worry about your own country and stop making opions about a country that you seem to know so little about?

But first off just admit what you posted was wrong, incorrect, not factual, start you argument over on something solid?

[EFerrari]

107. Well, no. Have YOU read that transcript or watched the video?

No.

As far as I can tell, you haven't even read the OP.

And, how in the world do you know what "my country" is?

You don't.

Welcome to DU.

[josewelder]

111. You are wrong admit it.

Yes I read your OP. It is wrong and misleading.

Frankly I really do not care where you are from and never said where you are from. However I can tell you for sure, you are not from Mexico and know nothing about what is has and will happen in Mexico.

Why don't you answer my other questions?

Why don't you admit you are wrong?

Welcome to a world of instant information where people correct false statements made by people like yourself. Welcome to a world that does not lust for revoultion and blood, but rather work for compromise, social evoution and change for the good.

[EFerrari]

114. Welcome to DU. I hope you enjoy your stay here.

:)

[UTUSN]

109. Exactly when did I name-call you? You posted the information under

YOUR handle. Do you bear any responsibility for that? So the "reporting" from that site was wrong? Let's see, first it says that the dude "took power" at midnight and that the opposition is vowing to block the inauguration. The MX constitution says the oath must be taken in front of their congress---it was, and the opposition did NOT block it, and contrary to posts in these threads Mexico did NOT EXPLODE.

As for how "reporting" is done, I distinctly remember David SHUSTER appearing nightly on the Keith show absolutely "reporting" that KKKarl was going to be indicted within two weeks, according to his SOURCES. When it didn't happen, it turned out that his sources were "lawyers with clients in front of the grand jury," ----in other words, OPINION JOCKEYS, not REAL SOURCES who had ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE of FITZGERALD's papers and decisions.

Let's not forget the "reporting" of the London bomber, the one that supposedly ran away and jumped barriers, but was later found to have been shot without those provocations.

So your link was NOT reporting actual events, but somebody's GUESSES about what they THOUGHT was going to happen.

The seven points listed in your O.P. were WRONG. (I haven't seen any link saying that Shrub was going to attend then changed plans.)

Sigh. See ya around on the Minuteman threads where we won't be talking past each other.

[doublethink]

112. Got any links to any of this?

:rofl: My God you get around this board don't you? LINKS? LINKS TO WHAT YOU SPEW?

[EFerrari]

115. The reporter's name is Gibler. He's been on the ground in

Oaxaca for a long time.

And, as to my OP, HAVE YOU YET read the DemocracyNow transcript? Shrub was reportedly going to attend the event according to that report. (I'm not imaginative enough to make that up.) Amy is pretty careful and has a good batting average. I never take any report on faith, of course, but I've found her to be pretty reliable.

Let's cut to the chase. You and I disagree on what is going on here, right? We could probably look at the same report and come to a different conclusion. But, I didn't mean to misrepresent events because, lol, that would be a silly thing here on DU, no? On Friday, even my local right wing fish wrap raised the question of whether Calderon would be able to hold his position.

Whatever. Please go see that report at DemocracyNow! If I misstated anything, that's on me. But Amy is solid, and to my mind, that's what's important. Remember, I cited her as my source so if I egregiously misrepresented her reporting, you could call me on that. But what you have done is really different. You have distorted my post and you continue to do so.

You have called me an ideologue and suggested that I'm calling for violence.

I have family in Oaxaca. This isn't some fucking verbal GAME for me. I want to know *exactly* what is happening, not what I would prefer or what BushCo can manipulate.

Comprendes?

Maybe this will calm down and we can collaborate again but it won't be on the occasion of your calling me an ideologue when I'm waiting to hear if my uncle Raul made it back from the market in one piece.

Fuck me.

[josewelder]

116. Uncle Raul. Yeah right

I think your last sentence in your last post said it all.

[EFerrari]

117. So, who do YOU have in Oaxaca? Anyone?

Are any of YOUR relatives afraid to go shop for groceries?

I think the monumental disregard in your post says it all.

Welcome to my ignore list.

[josewelder]

119. No Uncles

No I do not have anyone in Oaxaca. But as I said before I live in Mexico City and I did not go to the market on Dec. 1, becuase it did not seem like a good idea. Yet you place little smiley faces next to your comments regarding fist fight in the Mexican senate/house. You seem to want conflict here in Mexico.
You cannot answer the questions I posed to you earlier. You mereley dance and avoid questions and truths that have been placed in front of you. I welcome entrance to your ignore list. I will not place you on my ignore list, because I want to watch people like you that post misleading, wrong, and potentially damaging things regarding my home, Mexico.

[Wiley50]

118. I've Got a Link And a Photo From La Jornada in Spanish and English (sort of)

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2006/12/01/index.php?section=edito


Momento en que Vicente Fox entrega la banda presidencial a un cadete del Heroico Colegio Militar, mientras Felipe Calderón atestigua. Con ese acto se da por hecho que el ahora ex mandatario no acudirá al Palacio Legislativo de San Lázaro a la transferencia de poderes FOTO Notimex

Ominoso desfiguro

La medianoche pasada Vicente Fox Quesada y Felipe Calderón Hinojosa protagonizaron un ominoso y extraño ritual nocturno. Marcó la separación del cargo del primero pero no fue una toma formal de posesión del segundo; se realizó en privado, pero se difundió en cadena nacional; se pretendió civil, pero tuvo una marcada presencia castrense; era completamente innecesario, pero parecía forzado por las circunstancias. Remedó fórmulas legales, pero no está previsto en las leyes. Fue una demostración pavorosa de debilidad, pero constituyó una inequívoca amenaza de fuerza; se concibió como un impulso inicial para el michoacano, pero se traduce en un enorme lastre de origen para un ejercicio mínimamente viable de la Presidencia.

Los símbolos están a la vista. En vez de entregar la banda presidencial al presidente del Congreso para que éste se la pasara a Calderón, Fox la depositó en manos de un elemento castrense. Así sea por unas horas, y a reserva de lo que ocurra esta mañana, el máximo emblema de la Presidencia está, pues, bajo resguardo militar. La caracterización de Calderón como jefe del Poder Ejecutivo fue realizada por una voz en off. Llevando a sus últimas consecuencias la realidad virtual en la que estuvo inmerso el foxismo ­y en la que pretendió situar al país­ este ritual fue un show televisivo. Se acentuó, con ello, ese afán ­o esa necesidad­ del grupo gobernante por sustituir a las cámaras del Legislativo con cámaras de televisión. Ante las segundas pronunció el ahora ex presidente su último mensaje político, el primero de septiembre. Ante ellas Calderón tomó protesta a sus colaboradores y emitió un juramento que no guarda relación alguna con la protesta presidencial que se estipula en la Constitución.

En suma, los pretendidos primeros actos del político michoacano como jefe del Ejecutivo federal, una ceremonia desesperada y un mensaje retórico, anodino y ajeno a la profunda crisis en que se encuentra inmerso el país, se llevaron a cabo con el concurso institucional de la televisión y del Ejército. Su estatuto presidencial se fundamenta, hasta ahora, en esos dos factores. Es difícil imaginar una manera más distorsionada de comenzar un ejercicio de gobierno. La Presidencia foxista terminó en una grave descomposición, y el calderonismo llega, también descompuesto, al poder.

Con todo y el ritual de medianoche celebrado en Los Pinos, Calderón no puede eludir la cita con la representación del poder civil ­lo que queda de ella­ y con la realidad. Si llega al Palacio Legislativo de San Lázaro, el ominoso desfiguro de esta madrugada no va a facilitarle una situación que de por sí resultaba complicada, dramática y peligrosa; por el contrario, ha incrementado la precariedad de su situación y lo ha hecho más indeseable para el sector de la sociedad que cuestiona la legitimidad de su condición de presidente electo y la limpieza de su pretendido triunfo electoral.

La acentuada debilidad de Felipe Calderón en las horas previas al momento en el que pretende rendir protesta como presidente constitucional de México incrementa las posibilidades de que el grupo en el poder se vea tentado a hacer uso de la violencia represiva ante cualquier manifestación de descontento que se registre en San Lázaro. Cabe esperar, con todo, que el panismo gobernante no incurra en tal insensatez, porque con ello cancelaría de tajo la precaria vigencia del Congreso de la Unión y colocaría a Calderón a la cabeza de un régimen de facto, un escenario intolerable en el México del siglo XXI.

Hay que recordarlo: la incertidumbre de la hora presente habría podido evitarse si el propio Calderón y las autoridades electorales que pervirtieron la elección hubiesen aceptado, en su momento, un recuento confiable de los sufragios emitidos el 2 de julio.

Now a crude Babelfish Translation but you get the gist:

Babel Fish Translation

In English:
Edition of the 01 of December of 2006
Ominous silly stunt
The midnight last Vicente Fox Quesada and Felipe Calderón Hinojosa carried out an ominous and strange nocturnal ritual. He marked the separation of the position of first but it was not a formal taking of possession of the second; he was made in private, but one spread in national chain; civilian tried itself, but she had a noticeable military presence; he was completely unnecessary, but it seemed forced by the circumstances. He imitate legal formulas, but it is not predicted in the laws. It was a dreadful demonstration of weakness, but he constituted an unequivocal threat of force; he conceived himself as an initial impulse for the michoacano, but is translated in an enormous ballast of origin for a minimumly viable exercise of the Presidency. The symbols are at sight. Instead of giving the presidential band to the president of the Congress so that this one went it to Calderón, Fox deposited it into the hands of a military element. Thus it is by hours, and to reserve of which it happens this morning, the maximum emblem of the Presidency is, then, under defense military. The characterization of Calderón as head of the Executive authority were made by a voice in off. Taking to its last consequences the virtual reality in which the foxismo was immersed ­y in which it tried to locate to país­ this ritual was a televising show. It was accentuated, with it, that eagerness ­o that necesidad­ of the governing group to replace the cameras of the Legislative one with television cameras. Before second its last political message pronounced the ex- president now, first of September. Before them Calderón took protest to its collaborators and emitted an oath that does not keep relation some with the presidential protest that is stipulated in the Constitution. In sum, tried the first acts of the michoacano politician like head of the federal Executive, a desperate ceremony and a message rhetorical, anodyne and other people's to the deep crisis in which is immersed the country, were carried out with the institutional aid of the television and the Army. Its presidential statute is based, until now, in those two factors. It is difficult to imagine one more a way distorted to begin a government exercise. The foxista Presidency finished in one serious decomposition, and the calderonismo arrives, also disturbed, to the power. Yet and the ritual of midnight celebrated in the Pines, Calderón cannot elude the appointment with the representation of the civil power ­lo that is of ella­ and with the reality. If it arrives at the Legislative Palace of San Lazaro, the ominous silly stunt of this dawn is not going to facilitate a situation to him that from by himself was complicated, dramatic and dangerous; on the contrary, it has increased the precariedad of his situation and it has made it more undesirable for the sector of the society that questions the legitimacy of its condition of elect president and the cleaning of his tried electoral triumph. The marked weakness of Felipe Calderón in the previous hours at the moment at which it tries to render protest as constitutional president of Mexico increases the possibilities that the group in the power is itself attemped to make use of the repressive violence before any manifestation of displeasure that is registered in San Lazaro. It is possible to hope, yet, that the governing panismo does not incur such folly, because with it edge papal chancery the precarious use of the Congress of the Union and would place at the top to Calderón of a regime de facto, a intolerable scene in the Mexico of century XXI. It is necessary to remember it: the uncertainty of the present hour could have been avoided if the own Calderón and the electoral authorities that pervirtieron the election had accepted, at its moment, a reliable count of the emitted suffrages the 2 of July.

[josewelder]

120. Wow

Your quite the detective Wiley. And to tell you the truth I thin it is flatering to Mexico that yo would spend time looking these things up; however, what does that have to do with the reality that Calderon assumed power in San Lazaro in front of Congress with a quorum? Why do you people want Mexico to have problems? I really do not understand.

[Wiley50]

122. I Read La Jornada and Noticias Every Morning

I also have many friends in mexico and as I too plan
to live there soon, I want the best for it.

sfexpat did not tell you but that is where her family is now.

To know more of what I think see my posts in the other thread
after you left it.

The sash was passed to the military in an unheard of before ceremony
that was done in case Fox could not attend at La Tribuna de San Lasaro

In fact, were it not for many armed body guards and Priista and Pan coalition thugs
The oath would not have been taken at San Lazaro yesterday.

If Pan did not have conspiracy with the even more evil PRI
Mexico would have more help for the poor

[Judi Lynn]

126. It's completely unique, Wiley50. I've NEVER HEARD of a President

taking his oath of offices under these circumstances.

I hope the rest of his term will not go any more easily for him.

[noconz]

125. You mean..?

They've finally gotten wise to the US propped-up rotating regimes? Cain't be!

[Peace Patriot]

127. Note to josewelder: There is no trouble in Mexico except that caused by

the rightwing fascist governor of Oaxaca and his murderous paramilitaries, and others like him--tools of the rich and of the Corporate Rulers--now with Calderon coming in, with federal troops, on the side of murderers and rapists and kidnappers and torturers, to inflict more brutality on the PEACEFUL people of Oaxaca.

Nobody wants violent revolution in Mexico--except of course the Bushites. But NOBODY on the leftist (majorityist) side of things has been violent--until the PRD tried to keep Calderon out of the legislature, and they did so under extreme provocation, knowing that people in Oaxaca are being MURDERED!

You say you want the poor to be represented in government, and you hope that, because Lopez Obrador did so well in the election (came so close) that Calderon will therefore take a moderate view, and include the concerns of the poor in his administration. This is not how Bushites operate. And Calderon is a Bushite, as he has so plainly shown in Oaxaca. The Corporate Rulers want it all--all the oil, all the profits, all the marbles. They will grant NOTHING to the poor. And their fascist tools, like Bush and Calderon, do not intend to be nice about it. Bush has slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people to enrich war profiteers in a genocidal scheme to control Middle Eastern oil. Calderon's forces are killing people in Oaxaca for the same purposes--Corporate Rule (including one of their main goals--the privatization of Mexico's oil). How many will they kill? How many will they send to secret prisons? How many will they torture? --before you open your eyes.

When I say that disorder is sometimes needed to achieve real order, I do not mean that I want a violent revolution in Mexico or anywhere else. I was simply applauding the spirit of the Mexican legislators in physically blocking Calderon's entrance. If I'd been there, and if I'd had anything to say about it, I would probably have chosen some mode of dramatic action that would not lead to fistfights. (Fistfights are kind of a guy thing.) Perhaps lying down in the entrance (forcing them to remove me)--non-violent civil disobedience. But anger and fistfights in the legislature over this inauguration--while people in Oaxaca are being brutalized--are a quite different thing from violent revolution. They are an understandable loss of temper. In the overall picture, I support non-violent, peaceful protest...always! AS DID THE PROTESTERS IN OAXACA! AS DID THE PROTESTERS IN MEXICO CITY! As have the teachers and small farmers and election protesters everywhere in Mexico! The demand for social justice for the poor in Mexico is a peaceful, non-violent movement. ALL the violence is coming from the right!

Protest itself is not disorder. It is an attempt to achieve order. Fascism is disorder. Stealing from the poor is disorder. Non-violent, civil protest is an attempt to put things right--to create justice. And, yeah, it is sometimes real inconvenient. Imagine how inconvenient it was in the southern United States, in the 1960s, to have civil rights marchers, and bus boycotts, and sit-in's at restaurants INTERRUPTING BUSINESS.

It is sometimes necessary to interfere with business-as-usual--and to inconvenience people--to correct great wrongs. I've been following the Oaxaca and Mexico City protests with great attention, for a long period of time, and they have all been conducted in the spirit of non-violent, civil disobedience, to correct the fundamental unfairness of the Mexican economy. The brutality against the Oaxacan protesters has been horrendous. And it stems from the DISORDER in the economy--the rich getting richer, and the poor getting poorer, and the rich now enforcing that unfairness with violence.

I hope that you will some day understand this, Josewelder. And I hope and pray that justice will be peacefully achieved. I think that what is needed are yet stronger grass roots organization around elections, and election reform. (The same here, in the U.S.) That is our power--the vote. That is why people like Bush and Calderon cheat--because they can't win elections honestly. So we have to work harder on preventing them from cheating. And I hope you get involved in that in some way. If the fascists keep preventing needed change, by cheating in elections, then violent revolution WILL erupt. That's what they want. They know they have the advantage if desperate people turn violent. So let's try to prevent that, okay?--by making our democracies work as they should, to benefit all of our citizens.

[countryjake]

128. recommend reading this post by Peace Patriot...one more kick!