Pope Benedict in Turkey (freedom for me but not for thee)

[dsc]

said the following:

You know well that the church wishes to impose nothing on anyone, and that she merely asks to live in freedom," he said. In the courtyard of the 160-year-old Holy Spirit Cathedral, the Pope then released several white doves into the sky.

end of quote

I can relate. I don't seek to impose anything on anyone. If you don't want a same sex marriage by all means don't have one. If you don't want to perform a same sex marriage by all means, don't. If you don't want gays in your church, by all means ban them from your church. But don't, Benedict, tell me I can't have a same sex marriage. Don't, Benedict, tell me I can't have a job for which I am otherwise qualified. Don't, Benedict, allow anti gay bigots hide behind your doctrines and bash me. Benedict, I want to live in freedom. Why don't you want to let me?

[whyverne]

1. Cause I'm a Nazi,

Bless you, Benedict

[dsc]

2. cute

[robcon]

3. Projection

dsc: "...But don't, Benedict, tell me I can't have a same sex marriage. Don't, Benedict, tell me I can't have a job for which I am otherwise qualified. Don't, Benedict, allow anti gay bigots hide behind your doctrines and bash me. Benedict, I want to live in freedom. Why don't you want to let me?"

What are you saying, dsc? I'm all for same sex marriage, but I find NOTHING objectionable in what Benedict says. He argues against same sex marriage. I argue for it. Some people agree with him, some with me. What's the problem?

We have to get the people to agree with us - not the courts, not the civil authorities in some municipalities or states. We have to do a better job than Benedict.

[dsc]

4. It is hypocritical to say the least

to argue for freedom for oneself but taking freedom away from others.

[robcon]

5. Huh? Again, you're projecting what you wish he said, not quoting.

Benedict argues that the definition of marriage is man-woman. I'm not threatened by someone who disagrees with me. Why are you? i.e. why are you saying he is taking anything away from you?

[dsc]

6. He is saying he wishes to live in freedom

and doesn't want the turkish government, to take his freedom away. Then he shouldn't be trying to take other people's freedom away.

[robcon]

11. What freedom is he taking away?

Is it your opinion that you are free to marry a member of the same sex in America?????

[dsc]

13. they are in MA where they are currently trying to take it away

They also are in Spain where this very Pope told marriage officials (secular ones) to refuse to perform such ceremonies.

[TheMadMonk]

8. Not at all. Benedict's words quoted in the OP are a demonstrable lie.

The church (RC) does seek to dictate what an individual not under the sway of the church may or may not do, where that person's choices conflict with church doctrine.

And historically the church has been extremely violent in its attempts to dictate to non-RC's.

The leopard might have changed its spots, but until I see something other than words to support that premise, forgive me if I don't believe that it has.

[robcon]

9. Benedict is an influential man who disagrees with me.

I think the notion that he is trying to "take away" something (dsc's post) we've never had is a case of self-martyrdom/self-pity - not rational thinking.

We must make our case to the people. They, of course, will be influenced by Benedict and others who agree with him, as well as by those who think marriage should be broadly defined. We have to overcome Benedict's point of view with rational thinking - not pretending that he is taking away that which almost no American has ever had. Benedict is not an enemy - he is on the opposite side of this issue - among others. He is on our side on other issues, torture, Iraq, etc., IMO.

[dsc]

12. They are currently supporting Romney's attempt to take away

marriage rights in MA and shut down their adoption agency when the government required it to place children in qualified gay homes. What part of that behavior isn't telling people how to live.

[sweetheart]

7. turkish genocide of kurds and armenians

Do you ever wonder regarding the primacy of some issues when in a nation like turkey?

If you don't respect an obvious cult and an odd cult leader, why give any credence
to what any old scientologist says in a second world country?

[robcon]

10. Armenians...that's like coming to America and talking about genocide...

of the American Indians. It's an interesting thought, but certainly not the first thing a pope or foreign leader should discuss on American soil. Just as the Armenian issue should not be the first thing to discuss on Turkish soil - unless, of course, one wants to disengage, not engage with the Turks.

[sweetheart]

14. exactly

Not discussing those things, but using generic language about freedom,
likely was indirectly discussing those things, and not gay marriage.