OpEd: X-ray naked pics for "TSA Officers in Remote Locations"

[Bluebear]

December 1, 2006 at 12:09:55

XRay Naked Pics for "Officer in Remote Location"

by Dean Powers




Just when you thought they were creepy enough. Just when they cornered one too many of our wives and daughters into a little screening area to start laying their hands on their bodies in the name of "security," it's not enough. These pseudo-officers, high on their tin soldier power, want to ogle our wives and daughters de-robed and vulnerable.

Phoenix Airport will be the first to test a new screening system that only felons deserve to be subject to. The screening system effectively photographs its subject nude.
According to the article, the images are seen by an "officer in a remote location."

You want some middle-aged man looking at a photograph of your 17-year-old daughter without her clothes on? A middle-aged man in a booth by himself?

This is the most odious proposal by the creepy TSA since September 11. I predict it will cause widespread outrage. I believe this airport might even see a boycott.

The TSA isn't satisfied with anything. They've forced us to buy every liquid we use for our hygiene two times: once in actual size and once in three ounce bottles. They've backed up lines and caused headaches and misery for millions of commuters. They're skeptical of 99-year-olds and six year-olds.

This is excessive and these machines will be abused by perverts hiding behind the curtains. I guarantee that the makers of these machines have a nice little financial deal with some corrupt politician in Washington. We shouldn't stand for this, and the airlines should use their bargaining power to tell these creeps, "No."

We will not have a bunch of Mark Foleys watching our wives and daughters from their private little booths doing whatever it is they are doing in there on our tax dollars.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_dean_pow_061201_xray_naked_pics_for_.htm

[MADem]

1. Some bastard will quit TSA and start selling lead lined flying clothes!

Keep your modesty intact! Buy our Leadbelly Brand travel costumes, and keep perverted law enforcement eyes from oogling your form! $Only 199.95, and that includes shipping and handling! One size fits most--don't delay, buy today!

[nashville_brook]

83. you should be able to PURCHASE your own naked pic, like on a ROLLER COASTER

[MADem]

91. Bwahahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!!! Now that's some funny stuff! NT

[upi402]

2. Airline industry, pilots, Dems -all need to inject sanity into this

I mean there were FBI agents screaming about Saudi men only learning to fly -not land.
The Paki's ISI was funneling money to the 9-11 terrorist.
The CIA was onto them to.

So all they have to do is let the pros work their magic and let Gramma keep her damn shoes on!
Argh!
It's like 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' in our government. I don't trust them to NOT be inept. I don't trust them NOT to be sinister.

[nashville_brook]

85. from "Fly the Friendly Skies" to "Relax and Enjoy It"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotes_relating_to_rape

[bobbolink]

94. And "think of England"?

I'm guessing that's what you were getting at.

It will be interesting to see just how much the Murkin public will tolerate.

As the frog boils...

[Bluebear]

118. Snap! nt

[MnFats]

3. creepy, yes, but why is a middle=aged man creepier than

...a young man or an old man looking at these images...
....(I'm probably struggling to refuse to surrender my youth and my middle age, but....)

[yurbud]

5. old man will fall asleep, middle aged will watch, and young guy will run out of the room to...

jump your daughter.

[nashville_brook]

79. it's creepy b/c it's invasive -- not b/c of WHO is looking, male or FEMALE

the fact is, once the image is captured, there's no guarantee that it will stay with the security team.

the engine that drives the "wrongness" of this is that it is INVASIVE. that people don't have a choice. that people are being made into MEAT. you could have the most chaste alter boy or girl scout viewing these pics and sooner or later they are going to CHANGE -- they are going to become part of the TOTAL INFORMATION AWARENESS creepiness that has spawned this nonsense.

it's POWER.

[MnFats]

80. i agree. I was mainly

beefing about my particular age group being singled out.
we're not inherently creepier than anyone else.
but that may be beside the point.

[nashville_brook]

82. i totally agree. the creepiness lies in forcing people out of their DIGNITY

it doesn't matter who is on the other end looking at the pictures. it's a dehumanizing procedure -- for FLYING! to get on an aeroplane. sheesh.

what's next? naked pictures before going into COURT? seems to me this is the next step. how would that impact justice? you must check your DIGNITY at the door before you argue your case. nice.

what have we become?

[orleans]

4. are you kidding? i'm applying for a fucking job! i want to see how

small arnold schwarzenegger's dick really is!!

and cheney's!

and the rest of these hot shit war whores. (i think size will explain so much)






oh, and just kidding about the job.

[yurbud]

7. you can see arnold'S dick on rotten.com

[SeattleGirl]

8. The thing is, anyone and everyone in the government who

thinks this is a dandy idea is someone who does not have to go through the same kind of screening process.

I love what Randi Rhodes said today: Let's have Laura Bush, Lynne Cheney, and Dennis Hastert go through this process, and THEN let's see how enthusiastic the TSA is about this program!!!!

[Bluebear]

13. Ugggh....that paints a picture! nt

[SeattleGirl]

17. And a mightly ugly, scary one at that!

And that was Randi's point.

I am against the death penalty, and think that anyone who is for it ought to have to witness an execution (not trying to argue one way or the other here; just using this as an example). The same goes for this fucking outrageous plan: you want people to be x-rayed to the point where they appear nude? Fine. You first, asshole.

[WinkyDink]

114. Literally.....

[northofdenali]

25. Urk. I'll have bad dreams tonight...........

:puke:

My eyes! My eyes! :rofl:

[Heywood J]

120. That's about it.

Just like the Lieberman and Allen floats, anyone who endorses this - Congressman/woman, Homeland Security, TSA, whatever - needs to be followed around by people who point and shout "MARK FOLEY! PEDOPHILE PERVERT! Sen/Rep. So-and-so wants to see your children to be strip-searched!" Etc. etc. etc. with big Mark Foley heads or something.

We'll see how long this goes on with certain Congressmen or Congresswomen not being able to make media appearances unmolested and this being kept in the public eye. How many public accusations of pedophilia will it take for them to back down? Or will it take the destruction of a machine in the field to do that?

[followthemoney]

126. The security guards should be charged with possession of child pornography.

[orleans]

131. "I've had SEX with people who have never seen me naked!"

that was my favorite randi line from friday--maybe my all time favorite randi line ever. everyone in the house burst out laughing when we heard her say that!

[davidinalameda]

12. I doubt that Cheney and Ahnuld will be going through a security checkpoint

Cheney flies on the feds' dime and Ahnuld flies on the state's

[SeattleGirl]

52. If they are okay with this program, given that they do not have to

participate in it to fly, let's see how enthusiastic they would be about it if they DID have to go through it. Hmmmm, me thinks they might not be very okay with it.

[SeattleGirl]

6. The author mentions wives and daughters.

What about husbands and sons? AND LET ME SAY, IN LOUD CAPITAL LETTERS, THAT I DO NOT EQUATE BEING GAY WITH BEING A FREAK OR PEDOPHILE. THEY. ARE. NOT. THE. SAME!!!!

Now, back to what I was going to say, particularly where our children are concerned. I have a daughter, and I do NOT want her being looked at by someone who may be a fucking pervert, oogling her and playing with himself. If I had a son, I would feel the same way.

As for my own self, keep your eyes to yourself, ya freak. If I am to be naked in front of someone, it will be because of one of two reasons: either it is against my will (i.e. rape), or it is by my own choice. YOU. HAVE. NO. RIGHT. TO. LOOK. AT. ME. IN. THIS. WAY. YOU FUCKING PERVERT!

[PassingFair]

93. P.O.V.

Is ALWAYS M-A-L-E

:puke:

It's all about how it will affect men. And their things.

That line jarred me, too.

[Liberal In Texas]

9. Brilliant.

This will so not happen.
They will be stoned.
I predict this will be SO dead in the water.
1984 is close, but not here yet in this fashion.

[SeattleGirl]

11. I SO hope you are right, Lib!

They have really crossed the line with this one. I'd rather walk to my destination than subject myself to this shit.

[Liberal In Texas]

18. Can you imagine your kids going through this?

These images would end up on the internet they will be stored.

Yep, they've crossed the line. That's why it won't happen.

Enough is enough.

[SeattleGirl]

23. Amen, Lib, Amen!

The "War on Terror" has absolutely nothing to do with Osama or Al Queda; it has to do with the government running it's hands all over us and in us. Period, end of sentence. They don't give a flying fuck about the real terrorists. They only care about completing a total invasion of the citizens of this country.

And that, my friends, is the TRUE obscenity in this whole thing.

[Liberal In Texas]

51. Yes, SeattleGirl, I think it's more about subjugating than catching the

"terrists".

What better way than to humiliate us?

It reminds me of the way the Nazi's stripped the concentration camp bound victims when they got off the box cars. They made them strip. It was a psychological method of making sure they knew who the overlords were.

I will NEVER put up with this. I will not fly if there is ever one of thse devices in an airport I have to go through.

I have even been through TSA asking why the wand was going off on my chest. I have pierced nipples and stood in the middle of Eppley Airfield opening my shirt so they could check me out. I'm pretty brazen about my piercings, but I usually wear a suit and tie. I'm a business guy. What's under that suit is MY business. I put up with that...but I will not this!

FUCK THEM!

You are so right....ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

[SeattleGirl]

54. Your analogy of the Nazi's stripping the concentration camp

victims is spot-on, Lib. Reminds me of the meme that a number of DUers have posted over the past few years:

First, they came for the Jews,
but because I was not a Jew......

There are many, many people in this country, in fact, in this world, who have this view. "It doesn't worry me because it doesn't affect me" kind of thinking. Well, partner, lemme tell you, if you don't stop it BEFORE it gets to you, sure as shit, it WILL. Then what will you do???

God have mercy on us, and God give us strength to do what we need to do: stand up to this bullshit and FIGHT BACK!

[Liberal In Texas]

58. Yes. You're speaking to the choir. (And nice that!)

I'm so glad we bounced a lot of the despots on Nov 7, but it's so not done yet.

-Dallas county went BLUE (of all places). WOW.-

I think I might need to watch V again. LOL...

And yes, that "They came..." quote is something I learned about 40 years ago in school. I don't imagine they teach that much anymore.

I'm old enough to remember when they blacklisted writers because either they were lefties or Jews. In this country. I'm old enough to have grown up around Japanese-Americans that were put in concentration camps. I dated one of thier daughters. I was so abashed when they told their stories. I have talked to Native Americans while researching a stupid novel I was writing. We are so far from being a civilized people. The Navajos were and are. We are not.

But SG, I have hope. I think we just might be the people to change the awful course we're on.

I only came to DU in '04 looking for kindred spirits. I think this forum is good for all of us to know we are not alone. To effect change. Perhaps '06 was the beginning. I sure hope so.


(Sorry...rambling...)

[SeattleGirl]

59. No, it's not done yet, but we have instigated a beginning.

And while I totally believe that the Dems we elected DO have a responsibility to do their jobs, we ALSO have OUR responsibilities, the biggest one of which is that we plant our collective boots in their collective asses and push and prod and yell and scream and whetever else we need to do, to get them to do their jobs.

I have hope too, Lib. I have long said that it is not just up to the politico's. More importantly, it is up to US. If this truly is government of, by, and for The People, then We The People must stand up and do our part.

Salute! :patriot:

[Liberal In Texas]

62. Yes, we slog along in the huskings.

But that is EXACTLY where the difference is.

I think I see something like a "populist" movement happening. It's kind of like the '60s.

We had underground newspapers back then. Now we have the internet. It's powerful. I think we can make the change.

But it isn't going to be easy....

Yes, people like you are standing up. This is as important as those students that were gunned down in Ohio during the Nixon adm. (Hopefully, you won't be gunned down...) Many on DU are now more organized and know what's going on just because of DU. Skinner should pat himself on the back! Without DU I would never have met some folks here in Texas that are kindered spirits.

I must say, just talking to SeattleGirl tonight gives me courage and strength. As I hope you find with the rest of DU as well. It's been said, trying to oganize us is like herding cats. We all have our own ideas.

Skinner has no idea what he has wrought.

Andy S, rest his soul, made me take notice. I can't continue the work he did, but damn, he inspired me.

(OK, I'm rambling again...)

[SeattleGirl]

63. I'm glad you have been inspired by me

And I have been inspired by others, here on DU and elsewhere. When I first discovered DU, a few years ago, thanks to a friend of mine, I was only a lurker.

I confess that I allowed myself to be fearful of what the government might do to me, should I sign on. Then, I got angry, first at myself, because I even let myself feel that way, and then at the government, for putting me and so many others in that frame of mind. And in my anger, I thought, "Fuck it!" If they are going to take away my rights, they will not do so without a knock-down, drag-out, fight from ME.

I love and value the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And, having said that, I knew I needed to put my money where my mouth is, walk my talk as it were. And so, I signed up at DU. I've spoken out. I've signed petitions. I've helped campaign. I've registered people to vote. I've gone to caucuses. And I've spoken one on one to people who I felt needed to know and understand what is going on.

I don't want to lose my life, but even more so, I don't want to lose what the Founding Fathers had in mind for this country. We have been losing that vision, bit by bit, but damnit, I'm going to fight to the end to get it back!

[Liberal In Texas]

65. wow...

Just wow...you sound like me. Let me digress...

I didn't get here unti after '04 ... I was kind of passive before that. I mean between the '60s and the 00s... Complacent. 60s firebrand. Then I actually voted for Reagan...once. OUCH!

I couldn't say anything. I had secret service clearance to work with presidents and vice-presidents, governors, senators, ... you get the idea. I had a big time job.

Then...'04...damn '04, when they stole the will of the people. I signed up here and am very outspoken.

(Probably why FOX wanted me out. I had constant arguments with them. I actually hired a lawyer at one point to stand up for me.)

I have lost friends (were they ever friends?) some just deluded by listening to RW radio. Some real neo-cons.
I now stand up for what I believe because I now have the ammo from DU (and elsewhere) to refute the RW talking points.

And man, when you find another liberal in Texas....we double team!

[SeattleGirl]

67. I lived in Texas for a year in the mid-70's

Finding a liberal at that time was next to impossible!

[Liberal In Texas]

70. I came here in the early 80s

It was a time of change. Then it stopped. Now time for another.

Thank your lucky stars, though, that you don't live here.

It's tough.

[SeattleGirl]

71. It was tough when I was there, too.,

Not only racism, but rampant sexism too. I was only 17, but even then, I knew how to put up a fight.

[Liberal In Texas]

73. Yeah. Even until I left the TV station

there were old guys that would the N word like it was just no big deal. I spent my HS and college and 10 years in TV in Nebraska. NOBODY ever talked liked that. It threw me moving to Texas.

And they just started thinking that it would be OK for a WOMAN to like run a camera. Later...of course, things turned aroud fast. (Northern influence? dunno) We had many managers and producers who were women. Not to mention African-American and Hispanic people. It kind of seemed to happen overnight.

[calimary]

108. Uh-huh! In fact, I propose that we make November 7th OUR new

battle-cry/buzz-phrase. They have their screeching "9/11!!!" 9/11!!!" Well, why can't we hit back with ""11/7!!!" "11/7!!!"

They'll howl "...but 9/11 changed EVERYTHING!!!!!" So we answer "Yeah? Well 11/7 changed everything - AGAIN!!!!"

I think we need to make OUR OWN numerical battle-cry/buzz-phrase. Plus, it would hijack their nauseating knee-jerk 9/11 cover, and weapon, and manipulation. They would be far less able to bludgeon us with it as effectively as they have been.

[WinkyDink]

116. We're living in a POST-11/7 WORLD!

[calimary]

123. DAMNED STRAIGHT we are!

Let's roll!

[followthemoney]

127. The security guards will be so busy looking at the hot chicks coming through

that a "terraist" could carry weapons unobserved. Weapons get on planes now because the guards are bored to distraction. Luckily, no damage done.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. Honestly? I'd fly fucking naked if they would keep the lines short and the seats roomy.

I don't give a shit. Anything is better than standing around for two hours, only to have to take off shoes, sunglasses, cell phone, car keys, don't forget the wallet, pocket change... BEEP! Shit, whoops. Take off the belt, too.. at that point, I'm practically naked anyway.

[SeattleGirl]

14. Not me.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--Benjamin Franklin--

[Warren DeMontague]

24. Eh, first off, that's not actually Ben Franklin. Best you'll get is "commonly attributed to" him.

Second, you're preaching to the choir on that philosophical point. Bill of Rights, Warrantless Wiretapping, the whole nine yards- I agree. Of course, I was against many of these Constitution-burning rampages before it was cool to be, even. Decades ago, back when they were calling it the "War on Drugs" instead of the "War on Terror".

So you'll excuse me if I don't get too worked up at the thought of TSA agents with X-Ray specs. Bottom line is, the fourth amendment has been GONE for quite some time, now, and if you're flying on an airplane, they pretty much have the "right" to disrobe passengers as they see fit, even now. I'm not sure what's more disturbing, the idea that a security person might get their jollies watching passengers on one of these screens (certainly a possibility) or the idea -pretty likely, in my book- that these multi-million dollar pieces of taxpayer funded equipment which are supposed to find "weapons" are really going to end up being used to find the guy with the dime bag in his luggage or coat pocket.

Sort of like the PATRIOT act, actually.

But, my point wasn't about giving up liberty. There IS NO "liberty" left whey one flies anymore, and no freaking joy in the experience, either. And I'm certainly not saying I'd be willing to get x-rayed for "temporary safety". Fuck No. I'd be willing to do it so I wouldn't have to stand in one of those god-damn lines for two hours. Safety has nothing to do with it- it's SANITY, sister.

And you know what? If they had a long line for the people who want to go through the rigamarole of taking coats, phones, glasses, shoes, belts and prosthetic limbs off, and a nice, quick, short line for those of us who would be perfectly FINE with letting some TSA agent ogle our naughty bits in 3-D if it meant that we could take some small smidgen of the interminable, brain-breaking, line-standing, coat stuffing, stroller folding, put laptops in a separate bin HELL out of the friggin' nightmare that flying has become, that'd be okay too.

[SeattleGirl]

29. Sorry, but I still cannot agree with you.

And regardless of whether Franklin actually said that or not, it still holds true. The Fourth Amendment HAS been gone for awhile, and the main reason is, is because of people with the attidue you have: convenience over that which is right.

Look, I hate being inconvenienced. Hate it. Hate long lines. Hate it. But I am NOT WILLING TO GIVE UP MY RIGHTS AND MY PRIVACY just because I might be able to get into a shorter line.

You and I will have to agree to disagree. I do not agree with your opinion of this issue, and I hope that I can change it, but if I can't then so be it.

I have drawn my line in the sand, and I will not cross it. Even if I am left with no choice but to drive wherever I want to go, or walk. I will not give up my body in the name of national "security".

[Warren DeMontague]

32. Fair enough. Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was voluntary.

Seriously- if you have people who are willing to go through the x-ray machine to get through security faster and not stand in line, what's the problem? If you want to go through the old-fashioned security procedures (which are admittedly a pain in the ass and getting worse as they add more shit to worry about, like taking off your shoes- hence the lines) then that's your perogative.

If, however, you don't CARE about being zapped with the x-ray specs, why shouldn't you be allowed to get searched that way?

I'm not saying this is how it would be implemented, but if that's how they did it, I wouldn't see what the big deal was. I seriously doubt they'll be able to do it on anything other than a voluntary basis, actually, because if it was mandatory people would go ape-shit. And rightly so.

Edit: But -excuse me?- don't try to blame me for the fourth amendment being gone. Actually, the reason it is gone is because of the willingness of members of our population (that good old puritan mindset) to foist their own morality on other people, instead of letting people make up their own damn minds about things. THAT'S how we lost the 4th amendment.

[SeattleGirl]

35. I'd not have a problem with it if it WERE voluntary.

What I am angry about is that it's NOT. I am not standing in judgement of you or anyone else who would go through this kind of x-ray procedure on a voluntary basis. My problem is that TSA is saying EVERYONE HAS TO go through it.

In an earlier post, you mentioned male gynecologists. I have had a couple of them in the past, but in truth, I prefer a female. Neither of the males did anything inappropriate, but I am more comfortable with a female. The thing is, I have a choice. Where this program is concerned, yeah, you have a choice: submit to the total invasion of privacy where your body is concerned, or don't fly. That is a bad choice.

I understand the need for higher security, but I would like to know why the government is focusing so much on private citizens of this country, and almost totally ignoring things like port security. As you can tell from my name, I live in Seattle. I'm more worried about a breach of the ports by terrorists than I am about Jane or John Q. Public flying to Vegas for a weekend of fun and frivolity.

Edited to add: All I'm saying is, the priorities of this government are completely out of whack, and totally focused on the wrong target.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Re: Male gynecologists. I think you have me confused with a different poster.

I agree with you. Whether or not *I* think this would be an unacceptable invasion of MY privacy, clearly for some people it would be. That's why it shouldn't be mandatory.

:) I don't think I ever said it should be- I was only saying that for ME, if I had to fly nude to avoid some of the hell that flying has become, I would.

(Edited to add: Also, the point of that wasn't that I think everyone should fly nude to make my life easier, either- although I have often thought that, at this point, between the security concerns and the cramped planes, the most sensible thing might be to just sedate everyone and stack 'em like cordwood in the cargo hold, to be revived on arrival. I've had flights that would have been more FAR pleasant that way)

And you're right about the priorities of the government being completely out of whack.

[SeattleGirl]

40. My apologies. I did have you confused with another poster.

And yes, it should not be mandatory. Like when I go to a Mariners baseball game. I know that if I take a purse, I have to go through the security line and have my purse contents checked. Sometimes I take one; sometimes I don't and can go through the other line. But again, this is a choice. The folks at the airport in Phoenix won't have one except for choosing not to fly at all. And that is a false choice, IMHO.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. Not to disagree with your fundamental premise, which I don't at all:

but according to the Yahoo article, at least as the situation stands now---

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061201/ap_on_re_us/airport_x_ray_screening

The security agency's Web site indicates that the technology will be used initially as a secondary screening measure, meaning that only those passengers who first fail the standard screening process will be directed to the X-ray area.

Even then, passengers will have the option of choosing the backscatter or a traditional pat-down search.

I have no doubt, however, that if they're spending all that money they intend to roll it out on a larger scale. And you talk about "misplaced priorities"- I bet you anything that despite all the talk of "weapons" and "terrorists", this is more about finding the quarter ounce of weed stashed in the Willie Nelson Roadie's underwear than anything else. :eyes:

[SeattleGirl]

46. Another false choice presented by Your Uncle Sam

Backscatter or traditonal pat-down? Monty, I'd like Door #NO FUCKING WAY!

And I agree with you: it is more about finding the quarter ounce. The government's priorities are so misplaced it boggles the mind. Not that I would, or COULD, run for office, but I swear, I could do a better job than these assholes, and I bet a lot of other people could too.

[Warren DeMontague]

48. Right, but you could be presented with that kind of a situation anyway.

I mean, if you fail the initial security screening, they can give you a "traditional pat down" search or tell you you can't fly. That's not just Sky Harbor, that's any airport.

I suppose if someone is more upset about being touched than ogled, they might ask for the x-ray.

[SeattleGirl]

50. Another false choice.

"You may choose to be ogled by some person in some place somewhere by this x-ray machine, or you may choose to let some person unknown to you touch your body in a way that only a true intimate should be able to touch it."

To me, that's like having to make a choice between dog shit and cat shit. Neither is very appealing.

The bigger issue is, how far are we willing to let our government go? How invasive are we willing to let them be? I am not anti-government, but I AM for limits on the reach of government. The x-ray machine issue is but one of many, many issues, many many ways in which this government has overstepped the bounds of where government ought to go.

[ContraBass Black]

122. Except for this, everything I've read says that it is voluntary.

If you don't pass initial screening, there's a choice between this and a pat-down.

[Longhorn]

74. Actually, at least initially, it will be voluntary.

"The X-ray will be used on people who have been designated to go through secondary screening, TSA officials say. This can happen after the first screening or at random.
It is also optional. Those who are subject to more intense screening can choose the X-ray or the long-used pat-down process to search for weapons or prohibited items."

http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/158688

[Bluebear]

121. re: Optional - - they also hid the "terror score" they assigned to travelers

"Here walk right through here, Miss, nobody will take your Xray. Honest."

[nashville_brook]

81. hmmm --- reminds me of a South Park episode

[seabeyond]

84. i was in line always getting beeped. told them, want me to take off bra

i can. right here, right now if it will get me thru this shit without getting beeped. i had a handful of heads turn and the person usher me thru awfully fast.

NO i will not fly, they will not get my money, putting me in the position of walking thru nude. the very basic of my right to not be nude for the public is WRONG. it could not be more obviously wrong. and for one person to say it is ok,.... allows this wrongness. and keeps me off the plane out of protest. i want to be a better people than this. than to sell out the very basis of my right for your convenience, or anothers fear. surely you can stand as a whole against this. wrong in every way

[greyl]

15. How do feel about male gynecologists?

At first, this does seem pretty creepy, but the purpose of the remote location is so the viewer only sees the x-ray image which doesn't exactly provide much detail.

[Bluebear]

16. When a woman goes to a gynecologist she expects to be examined.

When she flies I don't think she anticipates her vagina being viewed. Just a hunch.

[SeattleGirl]

19. Good hunch, Bluebear.

I have had a couple of male gynecologists in the past (though I prefer women). However, they have been professional, and we were in THE SAME ROOM. I knew what he was doing because I was there. This situation is very different. And as far as I'm concerned, the government has no fucking business knowing what I look like under my clothing. If I wanted them to know, I'd voluntarily strip naked, of my own volition. They can go fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned.

[greyl]

20. I don't see a vagina.

Furthermore, you were speculating about viewers being male perverts. I don't think you answered the gynecologist question.

I mean really, do you think that's a titillating picture?

[Bluebear]

21. A. I wasn't speculating about anything, it's not my op ed.

B. A photo does not have to be "titillating" to violate someone's privacy.

[SeattleGirl]

22. 'scuze me, but what is the matter with you?

You think this plan is okay??????????

It's a fucking violation of the most private of privacies. I don't understand. And don't forget; you may not be able to see a vagina in the picture, but you can see plenty otherwise. And, on the same note, the penis WOULD be highly visible. How many men do you know who would be okay with this? Unless they're Long Dong Silver, I would bet that a lot of men would NOT be very comfortable with being scrutinized this way.

[greyl]

34. I don't think that x-ray image counts as nudity.

Would you prefer frisking?

I'm not decided on the issue, and may be just reacting to the over-the-top OP.

[SeattleGirl]

36. It's still an invasion.

I have my reasons for feeling that way, some of which I have shared, some of which I choose not to.

Added: Have you ever had anyone try to do something to you against your will? Something that is very very personal? I have. It's not a pleasant experience, believe me. If you have, but still feel the way you do, well, I can't say I understand, but again, we will have to agree to disagree.

[Bluebear]

39. But we should err on the side of YOUR discomfort.

If the poster doesn't find the pictures "titillating" enough or "nude" enough, too bad. Some people do.

[SeattleGirl]

43. Yes, some people do.

But the bigger issue is, whether there is a pervert sitting on the other end of the x-ray machine or not, it's still a complete violation of one of our most private things: our bodies. I should not have to literally bare myself in order to get on a plane.

I believe that this Administration is full of sexually repressed people, and that they way they express that repression is in the homo erotic torture at Abu Ghraib, and in things like these x-ray machines. Have you noticed (and I'm sure you have, Bluebear), how preverted THEY seem to be? As one of my profs used to say, "If you stuff a part of you down far enough, it will eventually leak out your fingertips." Meaning, you can pretend you don't have sexual feelings. pretend you are "pure" and all that shit, but eventually, those feelings, being stuffed deep inside you, will twist and turn and pervert themselves, and they WILL out themselves, one way or the other. In this particular case, I really don't care to be part of their sexual release. I'd rather my "partner" be one of my own choosing.

[greyl]

42. But, it's anonymous.

The viewer doesn't know who you are, or what you look like other than in the x-ray.

Maybe their will two lines, so that it can be a choice. One, you pass through the current security, the other thru the x-ray.
I'll bow out of this one by saying I'd much rather have all of the luggage and cargo x-rayed first.

[SeattleGirl]

47. The x-rays aren't for luggage and cargo. They are for YOU.

If you choose that, fine. Me, no way. No way in hell would I volunteer for that. What's next? Literal nudeness and body cavity searches for anyone who *dares* to board a plane? My friend, we are headed straight to hell, and we are allowing it if we allow this crap to go forward.

[nashville_brook]

77. that's not any x-ray image i'm familiar with -- BOOBS!

just b/c it uses xray technology, doesn't mean it's analogous to a medical xray that shows BONES for the purpose of healing.

-- this image shows a depersonalized human form. it's CREEPY in the extreme to imagine someone in a "remote location" looking at flying customers in this way.

[Bluebear]

95. Thank you. nt

[nashville_brook]

78. it is invasive -- that's what makes it titilating for CREEPS

[roseBudd]

89. It would be if she were a little slimmer in the hips and thighs...

The breasts are fairly attractive.

The baldness is disconcerting, for sure.

[lostnfound]

96. It's an embarrassing and undignified picture.

And that is enough.

[ck4829]

101. That particular image is reduced in quality

That device discussed is capable of showing the anatomy of a person.

[ck4829]

103. Here is the enhanced version of that photo

You can see more of the person.

[Warren DeMontague]

109. Gives a whole new meaning to "I'll put a cap in your ass", doesn't it? nt

[nashville_brook]

76. whether it's a male or female TSA'er doesn't matter to me

it's still needlessly invasive.

and there's a BIG difference between a medical exam and a "security" exam.

[WinkyDink]

Doctors are a totally different topic. Even men might agree that they'd

regard a female doctor differently from a regular Jane looking at their parts.

[followthemoney]

128. Yea, this is no worse than spy cams in public washrooms. Who cares if ..

some guy is looking at you and beating his meat. And then looks up your secret terrorist profile. And find out where you live. And peeks in your window without you knowing it. As long as it is anonymous, right?

[Hekate]

26. Wow. The Muslim militants were right: Americans really CAN look thru your women's clothes!

Does anybody else remember that little gem? Back when the US forces were taking over Iraq, one of the rumors that went around over there was that Americans could play Peeping Tom with their high-tech goggles and whatnot. It was a rumor designed to play on the fears of men and women about women's modesty being violated.

And the MSM kind of reported it like, "Silly religious fanatics. That wouldn't happen."

And now it has. To us.

Hekate

[SeattleGirl]

28. Yes, it has, Hekate.

Only the asshats who designed this program think it's okay because it was designed by 'muricans. I am so enraged by this, I can't even think straight. I'd rather punch the asshole running the x-ray machine than voluntarily go through it.

Enough is FUCKING ENOUGH!!!

[zalinda]

27. My question, is how far is the next airport?

If people in the airport know this is going to happen and don't want it, won't they go to another airport or give up flying all together? I know this has dampened my enthusiasm for flying.

zalinda

[Warren DeMontague]

30. "Enthusiasm for flying"? You mean you had any left?

I've been rating the experience slightly above a root canal for several years, now.

[Liberal In Texas]

55. If it's a 2 day drive, I consider flying. Across the Atlantic...well.

I remember a day when I used to show up at the airport, buy a ticket, and jump a jet.

Sometimes they were pulling the jetway back and I had to literally JUMP THE JET.

No more. We have lost so much.

I just talked to an AA flight attendent friend of mine tonight. She has been a stu for about 21 years, and now hates her job.

Something is terribly wrong here.

[SeattleGirl]

56. I don't think I'd want to be a flight attendant in this day and age.

The focus has gone from serving the passengers to being a cop in a flight attendant's uniform. With no hazardous pay.

[Liberal In Texas]

60. It's not only that. The company structure has changed so much that

the employees are treated like crap.

Can you imagine being in a pretty good job for 21 years and in the last 3 or 4 not just hating it?

I thought FOX was bad. I got out. Now this flight attendent who has a degree in medicine is telling me she hates her job as well.

This country is so F*.....d.

[SeattleGirl]

61. Oh, I know, Lib.

I love Flight Attendants. I have never been treated badly by one, and in fact, have been made to feel welcome by all of them. But I know things have gotten tough for them over the past few years, and I feel bad for them.

When, when, WHEN, will companies figure out that squeezing employees to get more profits is as productive as squeezing mercury in your hand? It won't stay there. It will leak out, and you are left with nothing. Initially, yeah, it's the employees who lose, but ultimately, it is the company who loses.

[Liberal In Texas]

64. It's a downward spiral

I hear rumors about major airlines being sold to the Chinese. Oh, that's good.

There are a few good airlines left, say Southwest. But very few.

I've been around people in aviation a lot (just 'cause I'm a wanna-be) and by and large they are professionals that would die before letting a passenger get hurt. They learned their profession either by militrary service or some kind of intensive schooling. I took some flying lessons. These people don't mess around.

Now they're (not only flight attendents, but pilots, ground crew) are treated like bus drivers, clerks, or burger flippers. They are intelligent, educated people with a lot of training. They take you to 40 thousand feet and get you home safely. They do no flip burgers. The know what AGL, APU, clearance delivery is, and what that red thing on the on-board radar at 0200 degrees means. They know how to baby a sick aircraft to a safe landing. If they are in a crash, they'll make sure you make it out of the aircraft even if it means they might not.

The corporations in this country don't know the kind of assets they are squandering. The assets are their employees. Worth more than gold.

[SeattleGirl]

66. And more's the pity that corporate CEO's cannot see the true

value of their employees. I hate bad customer "service". Someone who is valued by their company is more likely to rise to the level of turning around and valuing the customers they are there to serve.

And when I say "serve," I do not mean that in a derogatory way. I work in a field where, while there are strict laws and rules that govern it, there is still a big "customer service" component about it. And for me, that is just as important as the laws and rules; more important, actually.

In the end, you don't get ahead by looking out only for yourself; you truly get ahead, in ways monetary and otherwise, by treating those who work for you in a decent and humane manner.

As far as the TSA goes, and the airlines too, if they insist on going ahead with this obscene x-ray program, they will pay, in the end. They. Will. Pay.

[Liberal In Texas]

68. Seattle...

I guarantee this will never happen. You can quote "LibInTexas".

I have been around the PR and media game long enough to know a fiasco when I see one.

This is the most ill-concieved stupid piece of crap to come out of our beloved President * and his minions.

As you said, "Enough is enough."

People will only put up with so much. Then it's over.

The tide of public opinion will overwhelm them.

...But let us not stop it there. We have a Constitution.

I am looking forward to when the truth comes out in the hearings next year.

[SeattleGirl]

69. Thanks, Texas!

This is indeed a fiasco in the waiting.

And very ill-conceived, indeed.

Thanks for fighting the good fight. And yes, we have a Constitution, and I for one am not willing to let Junior and the Gang forget it!

(I am excited about the hearings....)

[Liberal In Texas]

72. And thank you for fighting that good fight.

Without DU or the internets tubes we may never have talked.

I hope if nothing else, we give each other strength.

Just to know there are people out there like me! What a wonderful thing.

I've, of course, read your posts for a couple of years...it's the kind of thing where you get community from.

Like I said, Skinner really has no idea what he's done here. a

Even though we don't always agree...the herding cats thing...we kind of know there is a sense of one-ness...Seattle and Dallas don't seem that far apart.

Peace. P

[SeattleGirl]

31. That would certainly be a choice for a lot of people.

But for others, it may not be a choice (going to another airport).

The thing is, this program has got to be stopped in its tracks RIGHT NOW.

[Gwerlain]

33. Some idiot wants to be stuck starin at my extremely un-svelte bod...

go for it. Keep your hands to yourself.

[SeattleGirl]

37. I think the idiots ought to find another source of entertainment.

I just feel that this is wrong on so many levels.

[Bluebear]

41. Hey my uncle works for TSA in Los Angeles, I have Jessica Alba's screen!

She is so hot I would DO her!!! :eyes:

Can you imagine the celebrity "souvenirs" that some people will posting on the internets?

[jelly]

97. Unconstitutional

I wonder whether the policy can be contested as an invasion of our constitutional right to privacy. I find it horrifying and creepy.

[Gwerlain]

45. I think you're right, but I also think that a lot of people...

make a bigger deal over this than it deserves.

Write a letter to the TSA every time you go through the airport, and copy all your congresscritters. Let's have an in-ves-ti-ga-tion. :D

[SeattleGirl]

49. I will be writing letters to my Congress Critters, but not AFTER

I submit to this. BEFORE. And I will NEVER submit to it. EVER.

And I will disagree with you: IT IS A BIG DEAL. Not only to me, but to a lot of other people. Long as we lay down on the job, as long as we acquiescence to this kind of crap, then the government will take that as consent to what they want to do. Look at my sig line, and you will get an idea of where I'm coming from. I respect your right to your opinion; I respect my right to my opinion too. And there is no way I will change that opinion. The government has stepped so far over the line, it's obscene.

[Gwerlain]

53. I support and applaud your decision.

We pick different battles, but the war is the same.

[SeattleGirl]

57. Dang, I responded to your post, but accidentally deleted it.

What I was saying was that yes, we pick different battles, depending on our POV. That POV may be different than that of the person standing next to us, but if we are all focused on the war in front of our eyes, and work together, we will win.

[Joanne98]

75. How do we know the "officer in a remote location" is even in this country.

Wouldn't it be funny if they out-sourced the "looking at Americans naked" job? A bunch of men in another country laughing at naked American bodies. It's time to start beating up conservatives.

[alfredo]

86. Be sure you middle finger is extended.

A market for lead paint politically themed stickers could be created. "Fuck TSA" written across the tummy would be a good statement.

[spillthebeans]

105. thumbsup

:thumbsup:

[alfredo]

106. Thumbs up what?

:)

[spillthebeans]

107. on your idea

[alfredo]

111. My mind was in the gutter.

[annabanana]

87. Direct flights to Tucson, from now on!

I don't care if I have to get up at 3am to get a flight out on Newark, I'm not going through one of those machines.

This could bring back train travel.

[spillthebeans]

88. Reminds me a bit of Total Recall with Arnold

[uppityperson]

90. Couple of questions

1. "You want some middle-aged man looking at a photograph of your 17-year-old daughter without her clothes on? A middle-aged man in a booth by himself?" Wouldn't a better thing be to make sure people hired to work as these screeners are mature people? Thinking of "oh those men will be tempted so let's put women in chadors" mentality.

2. What will looking at people like this all day do to the screeners humanity? Will they become less and less empathetic?

3. I fly and have never been forced to buy any hygiene liquid twice since I check my bags. Regardless of whether or not this is stupid bs (my opinion it is, more window dressing which is acting counter and pissing people off), how often must you wash your hair in flight? Maybe if you are flying somewhere for a business trip and you don't want to check your bag and the hotel doesn't have shampoo?

[electron_blue]

92. Am I the only one creeped out by this thread being right next to the one on child porn?

good gawd.

[Mountainman]

98. The question is, how much freedom are you willing to give up to feel safe?

How much privacy are you willing to give up? There is no way to completely terror proof the country. I think the level of risk should have something to do with the level freedom or privacy we are expected to give up. I don't think we will ever reach the level of risk where we need the USA Patriot act or NSA spying, or nude x-ray machines.

[SeattleGirl]

99. Giving up freedom will never guarantee safety.

The government continues to use fear tactics to try and keep people "in line", to get them to go along with whatever the government wants. Whenever I hear people say that it's okay to lose some of their rights "if it makes us safer", I just want to shake them and say, WAKE UP! How would doing nude x-rays of me, or of my 71 year old mother help prevent another terrorist attack?

Bush and Co. are still using 9/11 to oppress people in this country, instead of doing things that would actually help, such as securing ports and nuclear facilities, and chemical plants, etc. They don't do any of that, because they are too busy still trying to scare people into submission.

I for one will not buckle under. I will not subject myself to the kind of personal invasion like this x-ray machine would do. No way.

[Mountainman]

100. I am with you 100%. People need to stand up to this shit!

[0rganism]

124. think like a republican lawmaker: what will make 51% of voters *feel* safe?

Actually doing something to enhance safety, well, that's risky. You could wind up spending a lot of tax revenues that could be going straight into kickbacks for your major campaign donors on something that voters might never even know about. Where's the payoff? Who wins? No one except America-at-large, and we can't have that.

Now if you can roll out something easy and ineffective that intensifies the public illusion of safety, that's wise use of funds. Spend a little extra to prime the PR pump, and mobilize the pundit army to talk it up. Lay most of the savings into no-bid contracts and subsidies for the RNC donor pool, pocket the rest, and you're set.

'course, if you can cook up something to, say, illicitly wiretap your political opponents or take compromising pictures of them in airports, that's worth every penny even if it's covert. If it gets exposed, you just call it "an important tool in the war on terror" and allocate enough PR to make sure the public goes for it. Win-win, either way.

[BlackVelvet04]

102. Absolutely disgusting.

I felt violated enough having hands run between my breasts. That was my last flight. This is beyond belief.

[hedgehog]

104. Does anyone know the long term effect of these machines?

It wasn't so long ago that people would get their feet flouroscoped at shoe stores to check the fit! How can we know for certain these machines are safe?

Some random thoughts:

1. Going by the traditional distinction that if there's no body hair it's art and if there is, it's a dirty picture; I'd have to say that these are nudes, not nekkid people.

2. How long could anyone look at these pictures before they get so groggy that they would overlook a bunch of dynamite strapped to someone's body? 1 hour? 2 hours?

[Sabriel]

110. This reminds me why we haven't flown since 2001

Nor do we plan to, unless absolutely necessary.

[Danascot]

112. TSA is a joke and a massive waste of our time and our taxes

Every other week there's a news story about how some reporter dressed as an Arab was able to get something like a loaded AK-47 past security while the TSA was busy searching a toddler's diapers and pawing though a suitcase of grandma's undies.

[WinkyDink]

113. Some videos will get onto youtube, I'd predict.

This is completely outrageous, and ought to be outlawed per the Fourth and Fifth Amendments.

[alarimer]

115. Reminder to self: Don't go to Phoenix

And make sure you never even change planes there.

[Generic Other]

117. That thing will be abused. National Enquirer will buy celebrity x rays

You know it's true.

[Hubert Flottz]

119. Vhat Vill Ve Tell Zee kkkeine kkkinder ?

The Gropenfuhrer and all the lesser Groppenjerkers in the GOP will be hanging out at the airport 24/7 now!

[followthemoney]

125. We could have all seen Clinton's penis... Don't forget the Nature of the beast

GOP stands for Gathering Of Pecksniffs. Pecksniffian is defined as an oily hypocrite.

[tblue37]

129. Wanna bet attractive young females will suddenly

become the new terrorist threat?

[tblue37]

130. And of course this is the same government that thought a

nanosecond's glimpse of Janet Jackson's breast would destroy the nation.

This sort of BS will destroy the airline travel industry.