Look Who Was Behind the Mexican Inauguration!

[Wiley50]

There He Goes With That Fucking Fascist Salute Again!



And Also to See Who Was Not









(Thanks to cal04 for the crowd pics)

[Greyhound]

1. K & R

:kick:

[Wiley50]

33. .

[Peace Patriot]

2. My browser won't download your first photo. Who is it? n/t

[Wiley50]

4. Here's a link to the site where I got it.

http://zapote.radiolivre.org/

Do you see it now?

What browser do you use?

[UTUSN]

6. I can't see the pic either, but if it's CALDERON, the salute is Mexican

and is observed by all Mexicans, not "fascist". So much for the knowledge base of the violence mongerers. And if AMLO were being sworn in as the LEGAL victor, HE would be using that selfsame salute---not to mention putting on the same presidential sash, singing the same national anthem, and otherwise performing the same rituals.

[EFerrari]

8. You owe Wiley50 an apology for that accusation. And, btw,

are you always so ready to describe what you cannot see?

[UTUSN]

9. Neh, No apology. & I clicked on the "Properties" tab of the red X

and the label included "CALDERON" in the name. Too bad the negative heat has been so bad between you and me in these threads. I recall that we have agreed many times before regarding the Minutemen and other such topics. Looking forward to our resumption of friendliness. s'long.


P.S. The underlying point of my post is the FALSE information that the Oaxaca posters and you in your recent posts about the inauguration have been putting out. Your thread's o.p. contained the following misstatements:

1. “pretender” - FALSE.

2. “can’t be sworn in in public” - FALSE.

3. “THE PEOPLE” - the PRD does not speak for the Mexican PEOPLE.

4. “will not let it happen” - FALSE.

5. “They won’t allow him to appear in public” - FALSE.

6. “was sworn in IN SECRET” - FALSE.

7. “Bush was supposed to attend” - I will verify

8. “no one knows if there sill be an event” - FALSE.

[EFerrari]

31. Go to the Democracy Now! website and read the transcript

for the Friday broadcast before you now call me a liar and add me to the growing list of people to whom you will owe an apology.

[doublethink]

10. Uh here's a link .....

It's a fascist salute .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_salute. But I'm not saying that it might not have a history of being a Mexican Salute too (and in this context has nothing to do with fascism?) but could you please furnish a link to this claim? I'm just trying to learn a bit more about it? Just as the swastika had better intentions before Hitler adopted it (another link ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika) the 'fascist salute' and 'swastika' were both dropped by just about everyone after WW2 because of the obvious connotation of the meaning they adopted in our world. Just asking for a LINK to why the Mexican Government didn't drop it too after WW2 or it's basic history of a "Mexican Salute" ..... I can't find anything on that, thanks and all the best. Peace. :hi:

[UTUSN]

14. All I can do is Google like anybody, but it's a RomanSaulte, not a fascist salute

Just on page 1 of the Google search, I couldn't see anything about the history of the Mexican use of it, but the link below shows Mexico as "forgotten ally" in WW II, of the U.S., that is. Not of the fascists.

And, yes, whenever I've seen the Mexican office holders being sworn in and using that salute, it has always given me pause, over the COURSE OF MY LIFE.

The Nazis adopted the ROMAN SALUTE, just as they ADOPTED the swastika. That doesn't make the Romans, the East Asians, or the Mexicans FASCISTS.

As for the link below, does the highlighted part sound familiar?

*******QUOTE*******

http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/slenchek/slmexicoww2.html

Mexico - Forgotten World War II Ally

By Shep Lenchek © 2001
.... Elected in July of 1940, the new President did not take office until December of that year. During the five month hiatus the right wing forces of the defeated candidate, Almazan, continued to struggle to overturn the election results. His followers in the U.S. started buying arms and agents of the fascist Spanish Falange headed for Mexico to foment subversive activities. Elected to a second term, President Roosevelt, always a friend to Mexico, used both the F.B.I and U.S. military intelligence to assist the Mexican Army in their struggle against the pro-Almazan forces. ....

********UNQUOTE*******

[doublethink]

26. Your argument is illogical ... you said ........

"And, yes, whenever I've seen the Mexican office holders being sworn in and using that salute, it has always given me pause, over the COURSE OF MY LIFE." ..... All I can say to this is yes, I agree with you ... WE AREN'T ARGUING WITH DEAD PEOPLE HERE! The only 'symbols' .... 'gestures' etc.. we have to be concerned with in todays world are those that have a cognitive 'definition' or 'meaning' of 'relevant history in our lifetime' ..... of what they represent in OUR WORLD TODAY. Not in Roman times (the salute) or whatever the swastika used to represent in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Odinism. What the Swastika used to represent "svastika, from su "well", and asti "being", thus "good fortune" or "well-being" is IRRELEVANT TO THE LIVING because of WW2! Symbols, Words, Gestures, change meaning with the times. And to THE LIVING (98%?).... IT'S A FASCIST SALUTE, JUST AS THE SWASTIKA DOESN'T REPRESENT IN OUR TIME .... WHAT IT WAS ORIGINALLY INTENDED TO.

Let me ask you something ..... did you know that in Roman times (since we're talking of what dead people care to think) the symbol :thumbsup: meant to kill the Gladiator, send him to heaven and the :thumbsdown: meant to let him live and keep him on earth? In short Hollywood fucked that up and got it back-wards and so .... everyone takes the meaning just the opposite of it's original intent. BUT IT'S THE LIVING, AND NOT THE DEAD THAT HAVE A SAY SO IN OUR WORLD and is who you and me have to either deal with or not, however they ...... THE LIVING ... see it. :) ......

I never said the Mexican people are Fascist. The installed government down there .... however? :) ....


Thanks for the link on the WW2 Mexican Ally ..... very informative. "During the five month hiatus the right wing forces of the defeated candidate, Almazan, continued to struggle to overturn the election results. His followers in the U.S. started buying arms and agents of the fascist Spanish Falange ..... " ... bla bla bla ..... anyway just making the point that Fascist Regimes come out of far Right Wing Policy's ...... always have, always will. Peace.

[Wiley50]

15. Uh,excuse me, but I think the "violence mongers" are the guys in the Darth Vader outfits

and their neo-liberal fascist owners that sent them there.

Poor people defending themselves with rocks and fireworks
against troops with armored vehicles, CS gas and Assault rifles
are not the ones who are the aggressors.
If Gov Ruiz had just stepped down
as the majority of the people have been demanding
these last six months,
it would never have come to this.

Yes, Calderon is a far right fascist
as was Fox before him
as are Bush, Cheney and the evil corporations who back them all.

When the fascist monster is forced to drop it's mask of civility
and show it's face in the use of military repression
We see the True Face of Evil

And the people are all the more beautiful in comparison

You should walk among these true people of Mexico
the next time you visit
and not just the OWNERSHIP CLASS

Now go wash your mouth out with soap

[UTUSN]

17. You have been drumbeating for violence OVER THERE on a daily basis and you know it. n/t

[leftchick]

24. he has been drumbeating for justice

and a fair election result. I thought that was obvious. It is interesting to see you defend a Right Wing extremest like Calderon who happens to be the favorite of the neocons, the CIA and poppy.

[conscious evolution]

29. drumbeat for violence my ass!!

All wiley has been doing is providing DU an ongoing update of the situation there.
Calling on people to support the Oaxacans is not the same as calling for violence.

[Wiley50]

30. And Furthermore.

See those guys way in the back

That's fascistic violence

And that one guy in front

That's uncommon valor

[josewelder]

19. One point

I must agree with you that if Ruiz really gave a damn and wanted to remedy the situation he should have bowed out.

As far as your throwing Calderon and Fox into the same category as Bush and Chenney, I think this is a grave insult to both of them and to Mexico.

I also agree that the general Mexican public are a beautiful people. However I do not feel a need to divide this beauty on the basis of socio-economic class.

[Wiley50]

22. I'll reply to both posts 19 and 21 here

UTSN
I have not be "DRUMBEATING FOR VIOLENCE"
ANYWHERE
I have only been urging people OVER HERE to NOTICE
what's going on OVER THERE
and put pressure on the Mexican Consulates and the press
as that is ALL that has kept that situation from becoming a massacre
because the mexican government sees that the world is watching
If the assault rifles had been used in mass against those demonstrators
with only rocks, this is what it would have been, another 1968 massacre.
You have totally MISSED THE POINT of my posts

I wish people OVER HERE were not lazy and stand up like the people OVER THERE

And

Jose,
The division by socio-economic class is why this is at all happening, I didn't do it.
The Economic wealth of the country is grossly unfairly divided among the mexican people
and is the reason for the corruption and dealing away of the peoples wealth to corporations
at the top and the absolute destitution and hunger and lack of services at the bottom

As to lumping all those criminals in together, that is evident in the common backing of
US and other multinational corporations who suck the lifeblood and common wealth out of society
See post #13 for a good example.

They deserve to all be together at the International Court and in Prison

[newyawker99]

25. Hi josewelder!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Pastiche423]

27. Photo

[Wiley50]

28. Thanks for Hosting plus Link to Video of 11/25 March repression in Oaxaca

http://www.aliveinmexico.org/2006/12/01/november-25th-grand-march-in-oaxaca/

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[goforit]

5. Hey, I just heard Poppy was there! OMG!!!!!

[EFerrari]

7. That's an awful lot of people to have to disappear. K&R

[cal04]

11. The Spirit of Resistance in Mexico City

Opposition in Mexico City streets against electoral fraud and decades of abuse and injustice

The Spirit of Resistance in Mexico City - by Stephen Lendman



The people of Mexico have other ideas, they're now playing out in real time, and as events ahead unfold it may be that Mexican history will be made in the hearts of the people and the spirit they show in the streets they take to and not in the halls of power where it usually happens.


http://santiago.indymedia.org/news/2006/12/61775.php

[roody]

12. That is Betty la Fea behind Calderon.

[cal04]

13. What else could be behind this

The inauguration of President Felipe Calderón provides new opportunities, not just for a country struggling with crime and poverty, but also for Texas leaders and businesses hoping to expand trade and make new political connections.

(snip)
Rob Allyn, president of the Dallas-based public relations firm Allyn & Company, led a delegation of some 40 Texas companies. Mr. Allyn had a consulting contract with the outgoing Mexican administration.

Among the Texas business representatives were the former chief executive of Dallas-based 7-Eleven Inc., Jim Keyes, and executives from Mary Kay Inc. and Hunt Oil Co.

(snip)
That, he said, will continue to make Mexico a great place for U.S. investment. He pointed out that Texas' biggest trading partner is Mexico, and vice-versa.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/local/stories/120206dnintdelegation.284a4ba.html

[mduffy31]

16. Who is the chick with the glasses

that looks like she has a serious case of jaundice

[judaspriestess]

18. thats a telenovela character

Betty la fea, now there is a show on the networks called ugly betty which is based on this soap opera

[Peace Patriot]

20. Gollum is the best symbol of Calderon--little wormy guy obsessed with

the Golden Ring of Power!

----

I finally got the pix, Wiley50. Don't know why. It just decided to show itself. And we're trusting these things with our votes for president? Yikes!

[Jcrowley]

21. Where's the staff from Harvard Year Book?

Mr Calderon is a Harvard-educated former government minister who calls for more foreign investment and greater links to the global economy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5143810.stm

Calderon received a Master of Public Administration from the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University.

And a blast from the past Vicente Fox:

Ash Institute Recognized by President Vicente Fox

President Vicente Fox of Mexico presented the Ash Institute for Democratic Governance and Innovation with a Presidential Award for ongoing assistance with Mexico's Good Government Agenda. The presentation was made at Fox's 6th Annual Innovation and Quality Forum attended by more than 10,000 public managers.

Gowher Rizvi receiving the Presidential Award from Mexican president, Vicente Fox.

Dr. Rizvi acknowledged the vision of Roy and Lila Ash in democratic governance and the role of Kennedy School faculty in providing information on international best practices that were used by the Fox government. Information about the program is available at www.innova.gob.mx, a web site maintained by the Presidency.

http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/ksgnews/awards.htm

Fox received a Master of Public Administration from the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University.

[Fountain79]

23. I think that is their standard salute to the flag...

I could be wrong...

[Wiley50]

32. Kick n/t