Hugo Chavez: Filthy disgusting dirtbag

[Proud2BAmurkin]

Wants to hold a referendum on whether to close "subversive" TV stations. I'm surprised he doesn't get along with Idiot Son, they're the same breed of scumbag.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/12/01/chavez.venezuela.election.ap/index.html

[aceman2373]

1. Oh Boy..........

[marmar]

6. You stole my thought....

:popcorn:

Extra butter, please.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

2. Anybody got butter?

:popcorn:

[Adelante]

4. This should be a good one

:D

[Little Wing]

9. Why?

[nam78_two]

I don't like popcorn

:(

[Lurking Dem]

35. Why do you hate America?

:+

[Lost-in-FL]

12. I'll trade you...

beer for a tad of butter...

:beer: :popcorn:






And Bush is just like Chavez, they love the publicity...

[Starbucks Anarchist]

14. Here you go!

:toast:

[Kerrytravelers]

76. A variety of butter and a choice of beers!

:popcorn: Now, move over and share with me!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

80. You got it, KT!

:toast: :popcorn:

[lonestarnot]

86. mmmmm mmmmm mmmmm

:toast: :beer: :popcorn:

[seabeyond]

79. slide on the couch. gimme room. i wanna watch too.... bah hahahah

[originalpckelly]

3. You've just figured this out?

He's a dictator.

He's not a hero.

Socialism is an attempt to centralize power under the guise of democratizing the economy (a goal which I totally concur with, however individual freedom should be championed, which socialism doesn't do.)

[Warren Stupidity]

10. "He's a dictator."

Odd then that he just ran for re-election and won by a landslide. Were the results rigged then? Do you have any evidence that Chavez is a dictator?

[originalpckelly]

16. I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood that whole...

closing down TV channels in Venezuela as an act of tyranny. I mean, they weren't using their freedom of speech were they?

:sarcasm:

I don't know why people haven't figured out that anyone who preaches socialism, and is at the top of a country, is usually not interested in democratizing an economy, but instead is interested in gaining complete control over it and the country in question.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

22. Don't Forget He's Promised If Re-Elected To Do Away With Term Limits As Well.

[Warren Stupidity]

43. Oh that does it - the very hallmark of a stalinist dictatorship.

First they do away with term limits, then they take away my mtv.

[Warren Stupidity]

41. Nothing has been closed down.

My understanding is that Chavez made a remark that he might run a referendum about these stations to see what should be done. Once again, you might disagree with his policies, but referendums and fair elections do not a tyrant or a dictator make.

By the way, we here in the US also view the 'airwaves' as a public good, and while we only pay lip service to that fact, in theory we could also revoke licenses for broadcasters who, for example, participated in a campaign funded and assisted by foreign interests to overthrow the elected government. Yes that would be an outrage against market forces and such, but it could happen here.

The venezuelan economy has in fact been democratized to a significant extent. For the first time in a long time the elites and the big oil companies are not calling the shots and having things their way. Oh horrors, health care, schools, roads, the whole 9 yards of oppressive democratic socialism is breaking out! Tyrant! Dictator!

[originalpckelly]

55. Tyranny can come in many forms, sometimes in the oppression...

by single person or small group, sometimes in the oppression of minorities by the majority.

In the South, African Americans were once (and still unofficially are) subjugated by the majority. Many approved of that treatment.

Obviously, that was tyranny, and that is obviously the type of tyranny going on in Venezuela as we speak.

And I won't be surprised soon, if this tyranny of the majority becomes a plain old tyranny.

It doesn't matter how repulsive the speech, it should be protected.

People should have enough confidence in what they believe to allow those whom oppose them to speak.

[RedCloud]

98. Yes let the mouthpieces for the oligarchy opine

Pssst. And I don't mean TV stations!

But you are talking about a US based TV station or is US biased? Tell me what channel do I turn on in the USA to get Castro? We are so big and brave and unafraid of other ideas? So what channel?

And do you have rebuttal radio stations to counter all the right wing hate talk stations here?

[WinkyDink]

102. Maybe he'll invade the U.S.

[lakeguy]

117. funny, there seem to be a few socialist countries

that are progessive and have some of the highest standards of living on the planet. i guess they don't have things "figured out" yet.

[LA lady]

13. I can't contact my friends

I lived in Maracaibo for many years. I have many old friends there and their email is inaccessible. They are trying to leave the country and I guess were found out.:-(

[originalpckelly]

17. You poor dear. I am sad for you and your friends...

:cry:

SOB! This makes me so upset!

[ret5hd]

20. Oh, what a joke. Did they try the airport? Flights leaving all the time.

[LA lady]

28. Their cedulas were confiscated

They have been trying for sponsorship

[ret5hd]

39. So the problem is the U.S. won't let them in w/o a sponsor???

[LA lady]

56. A cedula is the identity card there.

It is vital to work, travel or obtain a passport. Their hands are basically tied.

[ret5hd]

59. I know what a cedula is...but why do they need a sponsor to leave Ven?

[LA lady]

68. They were trying to emigrate

They had tried to get to Florida but couldn't. I don't want to reveal any more info. Please pray (or whatever you believe in) for their safety. One of the ladies is quite elderly.

[ret5hd]

82. Atheists don't pray, especially for a phony story.

[David__77]

83. Venezuela is a democracy.

Why are they turning their backs on their homeland?

[RedCloud]

100. Are your friends Adecos or Copeyanos?

And how many oil gringos live there in Estado falcon? 5,000? 6,000? Chavez wanted what? 30% of the oil profits to stay in Venny? Yes run!

[still_one]

21. My thought and prayers are with you and your friends

[John Gauger]

45. What did they do to be punished?

Why has the government blocked their emails? Or am I misunderstanding something?

[aquart]

49. Did they cut off their ISP because they were moving?

You know, like electricity and the phone?

[malaise]

38. By definition dictators are not elected

Chavez is about to win another election.

[cali]

84. Of course a dictator can be elected.

It's a total myth that part of the definition of a dictator is that he not be elected.

[cool user name]

61. That's bullshit ...

you've bought the myth that socialism has to be centralization of power or that individual liberties have to be sacrificed.

Nothing can be further from the truth.

Ever heard of market socialism?

[originalpckelly]

72. Actually, I refer you to this excellent article in wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism

Market forces do not a individualist society make.

[cool user name]

87. No because the economy is not the only thing that makes one free.

Socialism is not mutually exclusive with a free, just and democratic society.

The sooner the talking points repeaters quit with that myth, the better off for everyone.

[originalpckelly]

92. I've been fortunate enough to sit and think about nations...

for a while now.

I'm not parroting talking points, because I was once a socialist, and I was damn proud of it too. But I actually thought about power and human nature, and I soon realized the only way to mitigate greed was to use it against itself in a truly liberal economy. (Something which the freepers claim to have created, but really have created the right wing version of socialism.)

[peacetalksforall]

103. He may be a Hero in Waiting - meaning we wait and see - it's too

early to lift him up on the pedestal. But, if you understood who his enemies are - you might defend him for the good we've seen so far.

Miami is a hotbed of displaced Venezuelans - the ones who always dined with the predator oil companies and their elite former employees and executives - Rice, Rumsfeld, Bushes and on + on.

Miami is a hotbed of firmly entrneched Cuban-Americans who hate Chavez because they hate Castro.

Go to Miami and hear how they feel and why and you may find yourself saying I think I like that guy.

Helping the poor learn, eat, and grow in self-sufficiency and esteem may be way too much like Socialism which most in Miami confuse with Communism.

The newspapers are not with him - because they are aligned with the former wealthy, bought exiles of Venezuela and the wealthy who still live there. And don't forget, residencies in Venezuela are pumped up by a huge contingent of Cuban-American activists who live and work there. And we all know what they are working at. He faces an unhealthy press just as we do, but the people support him 'cuz they speak their own voice.

There are two wars going on - and they should be making the headlines in Venezuela

the one where barons want extreme wealth and poverty
the one where most want some form of equality and promise of humanity

[peacetalksforall]

108. Certain factions want to spread hate of Chavez because he

represents a change in South America that says we are not going to be puppets to the U.S. and Europe in business, we're not going to spread the money around, we're not goint into anymore debt for the World Bank and all the other banking associations run by the U.S. (They may even be saying that they're not going into debt to China like the U.S. is.)

[tuvor]

5. I don't think bush would hold a referendum.

[Warren Stupidity]

44. hush, they are very upset about the results. nt.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

7. Definitely A Pretty Shitty Thing For Him To Do.

[xchrom]

8. i like chavez.

[Gman]

11. Why don't you find ouf more about what's going on

before you take the freeper line about Chavez. Is the CIA financing these "subversive" stations? What other trouble is the CIA stirring in Venezuela? The neocons have made it perfectly clear they want Chavez out. We know what the neocons are capable of. My first thought is Chavez is doing the right thing in shutting down the neocons that want him out.

And you give no benefit of a doubt for wanting to hold a referendum. A dictator orders something done, not hold a referendum to find out what the people want.

Chavez is a very great man and is to be admired for what he does.

[originalpckelly]

19. It's sick that someone would make excuses for this piece of shit...

I refer you to LA Lady's post about her poor friends.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. All Your Beginning Points Don't Matter. There's Either Free Media Or There Isn't.

And he isn't a great man.

[happydreams]

46. Free to foment "conspiracies"?

Free to be run by foreign fascists? Fucking Venevision was funded by the Cisneros Crime family which is tight as sardines with the Bushies. Both are hell bent on bringing Chavez down as they tried to in 2002.

This single fact gives Chavez the right to take whatever measure neccessary to shut the motherfucking subversive criminal organization down.



What say you?

[originalpckelly]

57. Do you support restrictions on the free speech of suspected terrorists?

:shrug:

[Cleita]

64. Excuse me but this isn't about terrorists. You are on the

wrong continent.

[originalpckelly]

74. Well, obviously terrorists are as bad as any conservative, or even worse...

or in some cases ARE conservatives, why not apply the same to them?

I mean someone disagrees with you politically is far less dangerous than a terrorist, right?

[alcibiades_mystery]

69. Germany disallows Nazi speech of any kind: is the Chancellor of Germany

a Stalinist totalitarian?

What about those Hutu radio stations that fomented the Rwandan genocide? Kill the cockroaches! Kill the cockroaches! Kill the cockroaches! We have reports of many cockroaches gathering just south of Gisozi! Exterminate the cockroaches! That's just free speech, too, right? Whoever shut those down was just a Stalinist totalitarian, yes? The fact that radio personalities have been tried for war crimes in connection with the Rwandan genocide is an outrage on human rights, perpetrated by the Stalinist totalitarians of the UN war crimes commission, right? If you're going to be an absolutist, well then own it.

[happydreams]

85. They are not suspected, they are a documented

hardcore crime family and THEY own Venevision.

When this fascist chimp running the US is put behind bars I hope that Chavez can bring this to the attention of the US and, with US backing, shut Venevision down as a criminal organization.

[originalpckelly]

90. If I read the story correctly, the stations are not limited to Venevision:

"Globovision, Venevision, RCTV and Televen."

[happydreams]

101. I'll trust Hugo's judgement on the other three. I'm sure they

are one big clove of garlic.

[Cleita]

58. I have to agree with you. Although I'm not as up to speed on

Venezuela's politics as I should be, I have no problem smelling an American spawned rat. They have been meddling in SA politics in the last two centuries by backing the corrupt elite classes who could not survive without our meddling. They think they can get away with it forever.

[happydreams]

70. Here's something:

Google: Venevision+Cisneros.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venevisi%C3%B3n


Here is something I posted awhile back on the Cisneros Crime family

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2217335&mesg_id=2221342

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

93. I Must've Misread The Article. I Woulda Sworn There Were At Least 3 Other Stations In It.

I better get glasses. I guess I was just seeing things when in reality the only station mentioned was venevision.

My bad.

[originalpckelly]

95. There you go with those facts!

:grr:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

112. Don't You Just Hate When Those Pesky Things Get In The Way Of Idealism?

[originalpckelly]

114. Well we empiricists will just have to wait until the facts make them...

realize Chavez is not a nice guy.

No one's integrity, no matter how great, can long endure with the temptations of absolute power.

[happydreams]

104. So you give him a pass on Venevision?

[Warren Stupidity]

71. Do you think we have the 'free media'? nt.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

113. I Fail To See How That Is In Any Way Relevant To A Discussion On Venezuala.

This isn't a discussion on 'Who is better: Venezuala or America?", so I don't see why you are debating it as if it were.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

26. True, he might only be censoring the "bad" ones.

you got a point

[enid602]

73. apolitical

I don't think Chavez has to worry about Telemundo's airing of his dirty laundry. Why, Telemundo's parent company, General Electric seems to have barred its US televesion channels from criticizing the current US President. So, you see, they're COMPLETELY apolitical. Just ask Jack Welch.

[JNelson6563]

78. Faux News of Venezuala?

I'm with you Gman, I need the facts before I hope on the Freeper Mindset wagon.

:toast:

Julie

[RedCloud]

107. Exactly... My Bush Cheney loving sicko neighbor

hates Chavez with a passion. Too bad the moron thinks he is from Yugoslavia. I guess Venezuela is not Eastern European enough over at Free Republic. Maybe that will be the next headline to shock us.

Number of times Venezuela has invaded other countries?

USA over 200 and counting.

[EST]

15. Hmmmm...

Because he is po'ed at corporate media-msm-who backed his opponent and aided in fomenting a coup against him, in league with the US meddlers?

Strikes me that this populist leader would be doing a tremendous service by denying broadcast licenses to the faux snooze propaganda right wingnuts of his country.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

24. Like Idiot Son would be doing a "tremendous service" to deny anyone but Fox access

to the airwaves?

Oh man

[IndyOp]

18. I wouldn't believe much at all of what the US corporate media has to

say about Chavez.

The corporate media has been known to lie on behalf of the powers-that-be...

:eyes:

[Wonk]

25. I'd shut down (or at least highly regulate) FAUX News if I could.

Would that make me a "filthy disgusting dirtbag" in your book if I did?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

27. Then would you shut down Limbaugh, Drudge, and any other objectionable source?

just checking. Who gets to stay in business?

[Wonk]

60. Bring back the Fairness Doctrine, make them stop lying through their teeth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine

[originalpckelly]

31. No that makes you Newt Gingrich. (nt)

[cali]

91. Not in mine. But I find your statement pretty

damn disturbing. glad you don't have the power to do anything.

[LoZoccolo]

29. Yep, I've been saying he's a left-wing Bush* for some time! n/t

[Pastiche423]

30. lol

How ignorant.

VIVA CHAVEZ!

[originalpckelly]

34. VIVA STALIN!!

:woohoo: GO STALIN! :woohoo:

[John Gauger]

53. Are you seriously comparing Chavez to Stalin?

Okay, I understand you don't like him. I understand that he has an authoritarian streak. But Stalin killed millions of people. Chavez's crimes don't even begin to approach Stalin's.

[bowens43]

32. So the people of Venezuela don't have the right to self determination?

I am always amazed to see people who are supposedly in favor of allowing the people to chose their government , except when that that government is one they don't like. How conservative of you.

Unbelievable.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

36. So you'd cheer if Bush held a referendum 9/12/01 on shutting down "subversive TV stations"

wow good for you

[Warren Stupidity]

47. We don't have any of those.

It would be nice if we did. They wouldn't keep their license for one day.

[bahrbearian]

96. I now understand you last name.

[David__77]

88. They DID shut down Hezbollah TV.

They're prosecuting someone for aiding its transmission. It's not a bit more "terrorist" than the fascist TV stations supporting cops and other terrorist acts in Venezuela.

[LoZoccolo]

37. People here don't.

The constitution here is written so that even if people go fanatical, there is still minority rights like free speech. In some ways it is anti-democracy. And that's good.

[Cleita]

54. From personal experience I witnessed more free speech

in pre-Pinnochet Chile than I ever have here in the USA.

Just sayin'.

[happydreams]

52. You people don't know shit about what is going on in Venezuela

See reply #46 and arm yourself with knowledge, if that is even possible, before you answer.

[Cleita]

33. I think this says it all.

Chavez was speaking in a joint interview with two state-backed and two private TV stations in the final hours before the end of campaigning.

In our world, that would be LinkTV and CBC; Fox and CNN.

I think whatever he said in Spanish must have been selectively translated into English.

[Lost-in-FL]

42. You have a point

Examples of incorrect translation...

Battery charges will not be filed against the 18 yrs old boy = No le cargaran la bateria al joven de 18 años = The 18 yr old boy's car battery will not be charged. :+

[ruggerson]

40. Ah, but he's a leftwing strongman

therefore there is a sizable crowd at DU who will be inclined to overlook little things like eliminating free speech as long as he socializes everything.

You'd think after living under Shrub's unfolding, encroaching wannabe-dictatorship for six years, that some people would grow a brainstem.

[StrictlyRockers]

48. Viva Hugo!

[aquart]

99. There was free speech in Venezuela before Chavez?

I don't know anything about who was there before him. Or what they did.

[dailykoff]

50. Did CNN sound the swiftboat alarm or what?

CNN is a lying Neocon propaganda channel. Chavez is a popularly elected president who cares a hell of a lot more for ordinary Americans -- including you and me -- than anybody in the frigging White House.

[k_jerome]

51. correct. i've been saying this for a while. nt.

[NNN0LHI]

62. In the USA you are a terrorist if you provide Hezbollah TV to satellite subscribers

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=televisionNews&storyID=2006-11-21T005931Z_01_N20289628_RTRIDST_0_TELEVISION-HEZBOLLAH-DC.XML&WTmodLoc=EntNewsTV_C2_televisionNews-2

Two U.S. men charged with broadcasting Hezbollah TV

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. authorities brought terrorism charges against two men for providing satellite broadcasts of Hezbollah television channel al-Manar to U.S. customers, according to an indictment unsealed on Monday.

Saleh Elahwal, 53, and Javed Iqbal, 42, were charged with providing material support to al-Manar -- branded by the United States as a foreign terrorist organization in March -- the indictment said. Each faces a maximum of 110 years in prison if convicted of all 11 counts.

Both men pleaded not guilty during a hearing in Manhattan federal court. Elahwal was released on $400,000 bail, while Iqbal was released on $250,000 bail.

Lawyers for both men did not comment. The men are due to appear again on January 8.



I bet the Venezuelan people read threads like this and don't know whether to laugh or cry at the odious hypocrisy emitted by some. I notice the very same people who are all interested in this propaganda from CNN didn't have much interest at all in the thread below which affects them directly:



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2771242

Two US men charged with terrorism for providing Hezbollah TV to satellite customers



One would think that the same people who claim to be so interested in free speech in Venezuela would be very interested in free speech in the USA. But they aren't. Funny that, huh?

Don

[happydreams]

67. Damned interesting. Thanks for that. ....

Whatdya have instant recall? :hi:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

63. The U.S. is rated 53rd in press freedom. Tied with Botswana, Croatia, & Tonga.

http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=639

But, we are ahead of Fiji!

[happydreams]

65. What do you anti-Chavez neurotics do...

line up with fingers at the keyboard then one of you starts a thread and you jump on it like flies on shit? Then post LOUDLY to stifle any intelligent reply? :eyes:

[Name removed]

66. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nutmegger]

75. OMG I'm so tired of the LIES

Read the Offical DU Chavez Debunking Thread.

[ChiciB1]

97. Thanks For The Post! Remember, With The Idiot It's ALWAYS About

"getting back!" Neither integrity nor fair play are words that should be used to describe the occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, no reason to work on it now!

Sometimes I see at bit of a King Ludwig complext here, but then I went to see the Castle Ludwig lived in a long time ago! Wasn't too shabby for them times.

[Jim Warren]

77. The organ grinder,

The IAPA and the mighty wurlitzer.

[Tom Joad]

81. Clintons signing of the Telecommunication Act did much to concentrate

power in media monopolies. Maybe it would be better to look at our own problems first?

[RedCloud]

89. Chavez vs. Bush vis a vis Katrina

I only wish Chavez had been our president during those fatal moments. He would not have let thousands die.

How dare you compare the two. Bush II has always let Democratic areas suffer or die. There's the real monster.

[Wonk]

94. It's pretty funny watching all the defenders of FAUX and Limbaugh in this thread.

Just sayin...

p.s. IBTL

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

109. I find it pathetic/obvious and not funny at all. It has no place here.

On a related topic, I also don't like the "in before the lock/zot" last-person-to-post meme, as it also smacks of another website. But maybe that's just me.

[originalpckelly]

118. How would you know about that freeper?

:rofl:

God, I love when we start accusing each other of being freepers and the like.

That's basically the same as freepers calling us terrorists/terrorist sympathizers.

[citizen snips]

105. Viva Chavez!

[originalpckelly]

106. Vivia Kleenex!

Oh, that Kleenex Viva!

[citizen snips]

111. ?

:wtf:

[originalpckelly]

116. Kleenex Viva paper towels:

They're soft and absorbent.

VIVA KLEENEX!

[gulfcoastliberal]

110. If Our Media Did the Same As Venezuelan Media In "Rev Won't Be Televised"...

They'd be shut down and condemned so fast it'd make your head spin.

[Lasthorseman]

115. Actually

and unfortunately all of us are just proles.
We have no idea what problems Hugo Chavez is having in running his country and we have no idea what programs our CIA is currently running in order to take control of their oil.

[happydreams]

119. I call that subversive: Venevision>Cisneros Crime family>Bush

....That's how a cynic might see the Times' April 28 profile of Venezuelan billionaire Gustavo Cisneros. The story included lots of info about Cisneros's business holdings and political connections, but only a passing reference to the fact that he is suspected of having masterminded the failed coup against Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez. As Newsweek, The Miami Herald, and the St. Petersburg Times had already reported, Cisneros is accused not only of bankrolling the coup, but also of promoting it on his TV network Venevisión, and then censoring TV news on the day the coup fell apart....


http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0218,cotts,34381,6.html

...The only thing I found strange and extremely disturbing was a news report on Venevision which talked about a meeting between Ricardo Cisneros (from the Cisneros Group, the largest media group in Latin America and owners of Venevision) and William Brownfield, US ambassador to Venezuela. This meeting happened at Venevision headquarters in Caracas on December 15, 2004 in the company of the president of Venevision....

Brownfield stated that he is very happy with the way Venevision operates and their professionalism … and that the US government fully supports Venevision....


http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2217335&mesg_id=2217352

[Ms. Clio]

120. "Iraqi TV channels closed" -- November 7, 2006

Hmmm, I must have missed the enormous flamebait thread about this:

Iraqi TV channels closed


John Plunkett
Tuesday November 7, 2006
MediaGuardian.co.uk

Two Iraqi TV channels have been shut down in the aftermath of Saddam Hussein's death sentence, accused of inciting violence among viewers.

Press freedom group The Committee to Protect Journalists said it was "concerned" by the decision to close the two Sunni-owned satellite channels.

Security forces raided al-Zawraa TV in Baghdad and Saleheddin TV in Tikrit on grounds they were inciting violence in the hours after former leader Saddam Hussein was sentenced to death, according to the CPJ.

(snip)

The CPJ said the Iraqi government had a record of banning news outlets.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1941594,00.html

[Fenris]

121. Locking.

The opening post was unnecesarily inflammatory, and that fact is attested to by the ensuing flamewar.

Fenris
GD Moderator