Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Bobby - some comments

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 04:17 PM
Original message
Bobby - some comments
During the last, chaotic scenes, I wished that I could concentrate on both RFK's excellent speech and on the images on the screen.

I hope that someone can point me to his speech - even a text only - about our responsibilities to work and live and accept each other. About the damage and danger of considering those of different race and beliefs to be of lower worth. Because while today we all condemn overt racism, we have, every day, in the highest offices of government, those who consider the ones of different beliefs to be not worthy, even dangerous, "supporters of the enemy" etc.

And RFK visiting areas where the mining were being closed, expressing concerns that we, as a nation of wealth, have to help the miners. And expressing concerns about deep poverty, again in the midst of wealth.

I was interested in the lives of all the characters there and following them made it easy not to sit in dread, waiting for the inevitable, shocking end. Because, from the moment "Bobby" enters the Ambassador Hotel - where the only doorman greeting him was the retired doorman played by Anthony Hopkins - that sense of dread was getting into overdrive.

For me, personally, the point where I felt a tightness in my heart was the image of Bobby talking, but the only audio was Simon and Garfunkel's "The Sound of Silence." It just reminded me of the days of my youth, when the future was wide open for whatever I wished to dream about and the present which, of course, is different.

As we left the movie theatre, my spouse asked: when was the last time you've heard a president talks like that? That's really a no brainer. Even the Gekko in that Geico commercial is more articulate and coherent than Bush. No, my question was: when was the last time a candidate talked from the power of his conviction? I think that even Goldwater and Nixon had their beliefs and opinions and stood before a crowd and talked. No handlers, no pollsters, no concerns about sound bites, about what would be pulled out of a whole speech to make it to the evening news, and the blogs.

The only candidates these days who do talk like that are the ones on the late "West Wing" and having Martin Sheen in the movie as just one of the guests added poignancy to this notion.

I think that many compare this movie to last year's Crash and I agree. In both movies, no character is all evil or all angelic. Those that we think are honorable show us to behave in dishonorable way, and vice versa.

- I smiled when one of the character confused Iowa and Ohio. Having once lived in Iowa I am well familiar with this. Idaho sometimes gets into that mix.

- And I smiled when a campaign worker introduced the new "punch card" ballot. Warning the people to make sure that the hole was fully punched, not to have paper remnants that the company making those called... "chads."

- During the movie we tried to see whether we recognized all the actors. Took us a while to recognize Helen Hunt, for example, as Martin Sheen's "wife."

- Sirhan Sirhan is not even mentioned by name, and, of course, not the fact that he was a Palestinian and that the shooting took place a year after the 1967 war when Israel, after being attacked by Jordan, Egypt and Syria, took over the West Bank and Gaza, then under Jordanian and Egyptian rule and today the territories of Palestine.

- We realized that we did not remember the details of that event. We did not remember that many others were shot, in addition to RFK. It was frightening that Sirhan shot several bullets before he was stopped. Rosey Grier, as the one who tackled him, was not mentioned, either.

- Was Humphrey not on the ballot at that primary? The results showed Kennedy, McCarthy and Lynch. (The Republican primary had Nixon, Rockefeller and Reagan).

- Was there really an important Dodgers game that evening?

- How young Walter Cronkite and "correspondent" Mike Wallace looked..

All in all, recommended. I think that I saw a DU thread about someone not wanting to see the movie. Yes, it reminds us the shock and the sense of loss that we had then, at least, those of us who remember.. but, I think, it can instill us with hope. I want our next president to be someone who talks like RFK, who thinks like RFK, who cares about the poor and the sick in our society, who believes in the power and duty of government to help, to intervene, to be there for those of us in our darkest hours. A government that can inspire us to work for the betterment of the common good and of our communities.

I want our next president to be someone of whom we can be so proud, even if we disagree with some of his decisions; but at least we know that this is an honorable man who sees his mission not as coming from his god but as someone to make us proud of being part of the same planet, the same community to which he belongs.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. all I read was "During the last, chaotic scenes"
you really should put spoiler alert in the title, thanks
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. How is that a spoiler?
Edited on Mon Dec-04-06 04:38 PM by Lurking Dem
The movie is a docudrama. We all know how it ends.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU9598 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Spoiler?
It's in the history book ... don't look there if you don't want to know what happens.

I saw the movie last night. I was haunted how RFK's words ring true today as much as they did in 1968. I didn't expect much from the movie due to discussion here on DU and reviews in the press. I was very moved and thought the movie was great and one that I will see again.

I also had a feeling of fear regarding Sen. Obama. Being from Iowa I have had the privilege of hearing him speak and connect with people here. I fear for our next candidate in 08.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. He dies
It's in the history books.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. Go to the video forum here on DU
Edited on Mon Dec-04-06 04:40 PM by rainbow4321
and search for RKF or Kennedy..there was a youtube link that had a 6 part video of the speech itself and then ongoing video of the crowd as it went from cheering to chaos as word spread of the shooting in the pantry.
Very chilling to watch. Also has news video from that day as the story unfolded/interviews w/ witnesses.


On edit
Here it is:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=5989&mesg_id=5989
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Thank you for that link, rainbow.
Edited on Tue Dec-05-06 12:21 AM by crickets
In the discussion there, Cooley Hurd links to another excellent DU thread about RFK's assassination:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2762695

I first heard Bobby's "Aeschylus" speech in response to the assassination of Martin Luther King (and the entire MLK "I have a dream" speech) while taking a required college speech class. I can't thank that professor enough.

Bobby was already scheduled to speak the night MLK was killed, and his handlers begged him to cancel, given the circumstances. They were worried there might be a riot. He refused to cancel and gave the following speech instead of the one he'd planned:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gigsZH5HlJA

Amazing words, amazing healing message. It worked. There was no violence and everyone went peacefully home to grieve.

Bobby and his like are sorely missed.

ETA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPYNb4ex6Ko (version with video)

Pssst! Who's behind the decline of politics?
http://www.time.com/time/columnist/klein/article/0,9565,1181593,00.html

Posted Sunday, Apr. 09, 2006
On the evening of April 4, 1968, about an hour after Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated, Robert F. Kennedy responded with a powerfully simple speech, which he delivered spontaneously in a black neighborhood of Indianapolis. Nearly 40 years later, Kennedy's words stand as an example of the substance and music of politics in its grandest form and highest purpose—to heal, to educate, to lead. Sadly, his speech also marked the end of an era: the last moments before American public life was overwhelmed by marketing professionals, consultants and pollsters who, with the flaccid acquiescence of the politicians, have robbed public life of much of its romance and vigor.

Kennedy, who was running for the Democratic presidential nomination, had a dangerous job that night. His audience was unaware of King's assassination. He had no police or Secret Service protection. His aides were worried that the crowd would explode as soon as it learned the news; there were already reports of riots in other cities. His speechwriters Adam Walinsky and Frank Mankiewicz had drafted remarks for the occasion, but Kennedy rejected them. He had scribbled a few notes of his own. "Ladies and gentlemen," he began, rather formally, respectfully. "I'm only going to talk to you just for a minute or so this evening because I have some very sad news ..." His voice caught, and he turned it into a slight cough, a throat clearing, "and that is that Martin Luther King was shot and was killed tonight in Memphis, Tennessee."

(more)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. These are really shaking videos... as if this happened just this evening
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtLiberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. "On the Mindless Menace of Violence"
Edited on Mon Dec-04-06 04:57 PM by AtLiberty
RFK gave this speech after Martin Luther King was shot.

On the Mindless Menace of Violence

City Club of Cleveland, Cleveland, Ohio
April 5, 1968


This is a time of shame and sorrow. It is not a day for politics. I have saved this one opportunity, my only event of today, to speak briefly to you about the mindless menace of violence in America which again stains our land and every one of our lives.

It is not the concern of any one race. The victims of the violence are black and white, rich and poor, young and old, famous and unknown. They are, most important of all, human beings whom other human beings loved and needed. No one - no matter where he lives or what he does - can be certain who will suffer from some senseless act of bloodshed. And yet it goes on and on and on in this country of ours.

Why? What has violence ever accomplished? What has it ever created? No martyr's cause has ever been stilled by an assassin's bullet.

No wrongs have ever been righted by riots and civil disorders. A sniper is only a coward, not a hero; and an uncontrolled, uncontrollable mob is only the voice of madness, not the voice of reason.

Whenever any American's life is taken by another American unnecessarily - whether it is done in the name of the law or in the defiance of the law, by one man or a gang, in cold blood or in passion, in an attack of violence or in response to violence - whenever we tear at the fabric of the life which another man has painfully and clumsily woven for himself and his children, the whole nation is degraded.

"Among free men," said Abraham Lincoln, "there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and those who take such appeal are sure to lose their cause and pay the costs."

Yet we seemingly tolerate a rising level of violence that ignores our common humanity and our claims to civilization alike. We calmly accept newspaper reports of civilian slaughter in far-off lands. We glorify killing on movie and television screens and call it entertainment. We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire whatever weapons and ammunition they desire.

Too often we honor swagger and bluster and wielders of force; too often we excuse those who are willing to build their own lives on the shattered dreams of others. Some Americans who preach non-violence abroad fail to practice it here at home. Some who accuse others of inciting riots have by their own conduct invited them.

Some look for scapegoats, others look for conspiracies, but this much is clear: violence breeds violence, repression brings retaliation, and only a cleansing of our whole society can remove this sickness from our soul.

For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. This is the slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter.

This is the breaking of a man's spirit by denying him the chance to stand as a father and as a man among other men. And this too afflicts us all.

I have not come here to propose a set of specific remedies nor is there a single set. For a broad and adequate outline we know what must be done. When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered.

We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force. For all this, there are no final answers.

Yet we know what we must do. It is to achieve true justice among our fellow citizens. The question is not what programs we should seek to enact. The question is whether we can find in our own midst and in our own hearts that leadership of humane purpose that will recognize the terrible truths of our existence.

We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.

Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution.

But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.

Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again.

http://www.rfkmemorial.org/lifevision/onthemindlessmenaceofviolence/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thank you. This is what I had in mind
"I have not come here to propose a set of specific remedies nor is there a single set. For a broad and adequate outline we know what must be done. When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered."

How true this sounds today as it was almost 40 years ago.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. I think my mom and I will watch it together.
The day he was shot, we had walked two precincts and were both drop dead tired. I slept though the event. My poor mother didn't. She had her feet up and woke me up with her screaming.

Dear Bobby, we so believed in you. Even us kids did.

It will be hard but I think good for us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. It's wonderful
I had forgotten a lot of the little details. And it is so well made. I am predicting Academy Award nominations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Good to hear.
I'm glad that such an important event? moment? is being put on the books. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
10. Rolling Stone gave it a scathing review.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. Oh I couldn't disagree more with that interview
That writer must not have seen the same movie I did. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Rotten Tomatoes gave it 44%
with the "cream of the crop" higher at 53% http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/bobby/

But if these reviewers, like Rolling Stones, wanted a different movie, dedicated to the life and influence and inspiration of Bobby Kennedy, they can go ahead and make their own movie. Estevez set out to make a very specific movie - of the last day, last hours, of Bobby Kennedy and how this event affected so many people. And I think that viewing a cataclysmic event with the background of mundane events and life can be very powerful. Obviously, I don't know the first thing about movie making but I know that it affected me, deeply, because of seeing how such a regular day all of a sudden became a major point in history.

At least, Joe Morgenstern, the film critic of WSJ said: "Flawed 'Bobby' Still Finds
Stirring Focus on RFK's Killing"

"I thought we'd never hear the end of intimate conversations in the Ambassador's kitchen, lobby and rooms. The problem is not that the conversations are pointless. If anything, they're too obviously designed to point up the issues of the time -- among them racism, Vietnam, the inequities of the draft and the awful impact of Martin Luther King's assassination. What's more, they take so much screen time that Robert Kennedy's impending assassination threatens to become a mere pretext for assorted riffs on the zeitgeist.

Yet some of those riffs are astutely observed and extremely well-written. Most of them benefit from the excellent work of an ensemble cast. (I particularly admired Laurence Fishburne and Freddy Rodríguez.) And the drama gets a sudden charge when Kennedy arrives at the hotel. It's amazing how everything starts to change at the very moment of his arrival, even though we know we're watching a stand-in. For those of us who remember that terrible year, it's more amazing that we still have so few defenses against the horror of the event, and the death of such bright promise."



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. I want to see this...
I was only a few years old at the time. It looks very good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
12. So basically, you want our next president to be shot after winning the CA primary?
Because that's what happens to honorable men who get within a stone's throw of the Presidency.

Everyone knows that electing the American President is only slightly more honorable (if less accurately tabulated) than American Idol.

Putting someone with actual merit and wisdom into that mix will just confuse people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Don't worry. As soon as someone will appear to be a winner
he (or she) will be surrounded by secret service..

Perhaps we can have someone who can fashion his message in short sentences, fitting for the American Idol crowd, but also will have a track record of more thoughtful and deeper thoughts to which some of us can go to really get to know that person.

Of course, anyone who can speak coherently and in complete sentences would be a breeze of fresh air after what we have endured in the past six years and two more to come.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. JFK was surrounded by secret service too.
There are men more powerful than the President in the United States. A candidate angers them at their own peril.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC