What's the proof that Osama is mastermind behind 9/11?

[RethugAssKicker]

Serious question... We all seem to take for granted that he was responsible. But exactly what is our evidence?.... Did he actually say he did it?

[savemefromdumbya]

1. Cheney did say that he didn't know whether Osama did it

Osama (call me Tim) the patsie?

[magellan]

2. Quite the opposite

bin Laden denied involvement in the 9-11 attacks, which is unusual -- the perpetrators of terrorist acts are usually the first to raise their hands to things, sometimes even when they aren't really the ones behind a specific attack. It raises their prestige among their followers.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

September 17, 2001

DOHA, Qatar (CNN) -- Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands.

In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said, "The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it.

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said.

"I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders' rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations," bin Laden said.

[RethugAssKicker]

7. Maybe this explains why we really aren't going after him

[magellan]

21. I've always thought this part of his statement was curious

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said.

"Personal reasons" aren't commonly cited as a rationale for terrorist attacks of any scale except perhaps revenge killings. Reasons are usually political/ideological, and groups go out of their way to clarify their position publicly. bin Laden's suggestion that 9-11 was done for "personal reasons" is a very odd distinction to make.

Even odder is his use of the word "people" rather than "brothers" or some other word connoting shared ideological agenda. I doubt this is a mistranslation. It sounds more like bin Laden was saying whoever did 9-11 is a stranger/outsider to his organization or views.

Also, his statement was broadcast on Al Jazeera to all the middle east shortly after the attacks. Check that. bin Laden told his target audience he didn't plan 9-11, and even implied that he had no knowledge of the plan.

That's highly unusual behavior for the leader of a terrorist organization, particularly when your followers are happy that the enemy's been given a black eye. They want to see you with your chest puffed out and promising more of the same, not denying you had anything to do with it.

Then there's this from the Muckraker Report, which deals with a question a lot of us have raised here on DU:

snip...

On June 5, 2006, the Muckraker Report contacted the FBI Headquarters, [phone], to learn why Bin Laden’s Most Wanted poster did not indicate that Usama was also wanted in connection with 9/11. The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”

Surprised by the ease in which this FBI spokesman made such an astonishing statement, I asked, “How this was possible?” Tomb continued, “Bin Laden has not been formally charged in connection to 9/11.” I asked, “How does that work?” Tomb continued, “The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice than decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, Bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connected Bin Laden to 9/11.”

snip...

Next is the Bin Laden “confession” video that was released by the U.S. government on December 13, 2001. Most Americans remember this video. It was the video showing Bin Laden with a few of his comrades recounting with delight the September 11 terrorist attacks against the United States. The Department of Defense issued a press release to accompany this video in which Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld said, “There was no doubt of bin Laden’s responsibility for the September 11 attacks before the tape was discovered.”<2> What Rumsfeld implied by his statement was that Bin Laden was the known mastermind behind 9/11 even before the “confession video” and that the video simply served to confirm what the U.S. government already knew; that Bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attacks.

snip...

The Muckraker Report attempted to secure a reference to the U.S. government authenticating the Bin Laden “confession video”, to no avail. However, it is conclusive that the Bush Administration and U.S. Congress, along with the dead stream media, played the video as if it was authentic. So why doesn’t the FBI view the “confession video” as hard evidence? After all, if the FBI is investigating a crime such as drug trafficking, and it discovers a video of members of a drug cartel openly talking about a successful distribution operation in the United States, that video would be presented to a federal grand jury. The identified participants of the video would be indicted, and if captured, the video alone would serve as sufficient evidence to net a conviction in a federal court. So why is the Bin Laden “confession video” not carrying the same weight with the FBI?

more... http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html

Lack of evidence? The only evidence the US gov't has tying bin Laden to the USS Cole and African embassies bombings is statements alleged to have been made by captured members of the al Qaeda network. He was indicted in absentia with that evidence. But a video tape where he claims direct responsibility for 9-11 isn't enough evidence?

Finally -- and this might just get this thread thrown into the 9-11 conspiracy forum -- but read about the unanswered questions about Israelis inside this country pre-9-11 who were hawking artwork at the DEA and engaging in other unusual behavior, including those detained in NJ on 9-11 with their own video showing them celebrating the WTC attacks.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

22. "Personal reasons"

Weird...I've never heard that quote from him before, but I've always felt that 9/11 was "payback" from sort of botched business deal between Carlyle et al. and some other organization.

Between the selection of targets, the windfall that someone made shorting stocks and the lack of religious zealotry amongst the alleged hijackers, it's always seemed more like some sort of Mafia-style payback.

"Those are some nice towers you got there. Be a shame if something was to happen to one of 'em..."

[progdonkey]

14. I don't buy that...

When you have a local terrorist group that wants to say, "We're here and we have the capability to do damage to the government, so listen to our demands," yes, it would be unsual for them and/or their leader to deny carrying out an attack.

But that's not bin Laden's goal. His goal this whole time has been to goad the US into invading Muslim countries, so he could unite the Muslim world against the US (thanks, Chimpy). Denying that he was behind the attacks was more likely a ploy towards the Muslim world, so as to say, "Hey, they're trying to pin this thing on me, which we know was an inside job carried out by Israel. Just watch, now they're going to use it as an excuse to invade our Holy Lands!" You wrote that admitting to an attack raises the terrorists' prestige, but in bin Laden's case, denying it not only raises his prestige (the US is so scared of this guy, they're pinning every attack under the sun on him to try to get him!), but also makes him a rallying figure ("the US is out to get me and the rest of the Muslim world will be next if we don't stand together!").

9/11 was a very low-tech and unsophisticated attack carried out by an increasingly irrelevant terrorist group as a last ditch effort to get the US to launch retaliatory attacks on Muslim countries. That they were actually successfull in carrying out their attacks speaks much more to Shrub's complete and utter incompetence and idiocy than to their genius and ability to wreak havoc.

[magellan]

23. That's an undeniable possibility too

Since 9-11 I've felt that Bush** played right into bin Laden's hands with everything he's done. My only problem with that is it still doesn't explain the evidence suggesting there was more to the plot. It's evidence that the 9-11 commission failed to address, raising questions that victims' families still want answered. See my post above: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2860800&mesg_id=2861967

Also, bin Laden did finally claim responsibility for 9-11 in 2004. If the assumption is he was playing a game by denying it previously, then maybe it wasn't working out for him. Or...maybe in the absence of anyone else claiming responsibility he saw the benefits of doing so, since most everyone in the world believed he was behind it anyway.

[htuttle]

3. In addition: In high profile criminal cases...

...good police work demands that a case be made on the basis of direct evidence, even in the presence of a 'confession', since it is so common for others seeking fame, etc... to claim responsibility for them.

In other words, whatever Osama said -- we shouldn't just take his word for it. The perception that he was behind 9/11 has increased his power and fame many times over (among those whom he's concerned with impressing).

None of that was ever done in the case of 9/11, in any case.

[Dhalgren]

4. The short answer is "no", there is no proof. The "evidence" is in

the "intelligence" leading up to the attacks. Also, we all have this image of Al Qaeda as some sort of formalized agency, like "Cobra" ala "G.I.Joe", but from all I have been able to read on the subject it is a much looser, less structured group. It isn't even on the level of a MAfia family, like the Bushes, but more of a funds channeling thing...

[sabra]

5. the FBI hasn't even charged him yet...

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

[april]

6. go to site ..very interesting how bush & co organized War

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1203-21.htm

[gasperc]

10. where's the 7 page paper Rhodes was reading

last night on her show, it summed up my suspicions about the war but then again it kinds told us what we as liberals wanted to her, it was interesting

[gasperc]

13. looks like this was it

[Junkdrawer]

8. Why, Fat Osama fessed up, of course...

:rofl:

Silliest psyop video...ever.

On edit: Link to archived "Fat Osama" thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1719399&mesg_id=1719399

[davekriss]

12. Darn!

I opened this thread to say the very same think. Of course, it was the fat Osama, the one with the puffy cheeks and shortened nose! That's the guy! So, case settled; the world no longer needs the "white paper" Condi and Colin promised the world, the promised incontrovertible evidence, since after all we've got the fat Osama saying he dun' it on grainy CIA videotape.

[pberq]

9. Pakistani ISI used to attempt to pin 9-11 on OBL and al-Qaida

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/KUP209B.html

<snip>
A mere week after the destruction of the World Trade Center, authorities were gradually building toward an official announcement that would definitively link Osama bin Laden to the events of September 11 - a wire transfer of $100,000 to lead hijacker Mohamed Atta. To an increasingly skeptical public, here was the "smoking gun", a bona fide money trail that would demonstrate how al-Qaida planned and financed the operation.

On October 1, 2001, the press revealed the pseudonym of the al-Qaida operative who allegedly passed on the funds to the hijackers. Days later, CNN revealed that the pseudonym belonged to a 28-year old Pakistani militant, a former student at the London School of Economics named Omar Saeed Sheikh. Yet on October 9, the Times of India reported that Omar Saeed was in fact acting under the authority of General Mahmud Ahmad, the chief of Pakistani intelligence, who had spent the morning of September 11 in deep discussion with Sen. Bob Graham and Rep. Porter Goss (now the co-chairmen heading up the "independent" investigation into 9/11). An intricate disinformation campaign was now set in motion to control any damaging fallout that might have implicated elements of the U.S. government in the events of September 11.

[npincus]

11. Khalid Sheik Mohammed is the purported mastermind NOT OBL

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/09/60II/main524947.shtml

This has been widely reported since March 2003. Remember the fat slob captured in his pajamas with his big belly hanging out? Now he's secreted away, in US custody, being tortured somehwere.



CBS) Osama bin Laden may still be at large, but the man captured in Pakistan last Saturday was even more important than bin Laden in the planning and execution of the Sept. 11 attacks.

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was apprehended in his pajamas just before dawn in a suburban home near the Pakistani capital of Islamabad. American authorities will have many questions for him because as, Bob Simon first reported last fall on 60 Minutes II, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was not only the mastermind of 9/11, but America’s most lethal enemy for more than a decade.

Just how important he was in the campaign to bring America to its knees only started to dawn on U.S. investigators last spring. Around that time, a reporter for the Arabic news channel Al Jazeera was summoned to Pakistan for a meeting with the men on the inside.

Not only did Al Jazeera reporter Yosri Fouda interview Mohammed, whose role in the plot only became clear to American intelligence last spring, but he also spoke with Ramzi Binalshibh, Mohamed Atta’s Hamburg roommate, who was originally slated to be one of the four pilots leading the attack.

[pberq]

16. Robert Gates just said that OBL was responsible for 9-11

[npincus]

17. listening to that

I belive he's speaking broadlyin terms of the al qaeda movement with OBL as figurehead.

[pberq]

20. Exactly. That's the myth that they must maintain at all costs

See my post #9 above

[Duer 157099]

24. Agree. He and his nephew Ramzi Yousef.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzi_Yousef

Not sure if they were acting loosely independently of bin Laden, or what.

But, since bin Laden is the figurehead of the group they all associate with, he's ultimately responsible I guess.

[Drops_not_Dope]

15. From the Telegraph - uk.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/11/wbin11.xml


Osama bin Laden with journalist Hamid Mir during the interview for a Pakistani newspaper


Bin Laden: Yes, I did it

In a previously undisclosed video which has been circulating for 14 days among his supporters, he confesses that "history should be a witness that we are terrorists. Yes, we kill their innocents".

In the footage, shot in the Afghan mountains at the end of October, a smiling bin Laden goes on to say that the World Trade Centre's twin towers were a "legitimate target" and the pilots who hijacked the planes were "blessed by Allah".

The killing of at least 4,537 people was justified, he claims, because they were "not civilians" but were working for the American system.


It is significant that throughout the video he uses the personal pronouns "I" and "we" to claim responsibility for the attacks. In the past, he has spoken of the attackers only in the third person.

[Catherine Vincent]

18. I know this isn't proof but during an interview, President Clinton

said this looks like the work of Bin Laden. I figure if he thinks it's Bin Laden, it's not far from the truth.

[twilight_sailing]

19. White Papers

After 911 Colin Powell promised the American people that we would get to see the White Papers concerning the attack, which were supposed to prove Osama did it.
That, of course, turned out to be a lie.
The White Papers were taken to Blair. He then joined the war effort.

[leftyladyfrommo]

25. Osama said he did it.

And taped it. I saw one tape pretty early on where he and his buds were all sitting around laughing and yelling "praise Allah" over the Twin Towers. I don't remember him actually saying he did it in that tape. But there was another tape not too long ago where he says he did it.