Gates Hearing Just Gross

[debbierlus]

Bunch of ass kissing (from both sides) of a Iran Contra figure delivered from the Bush 1 administration.

Thanks SO much for agreeing to do this....SMACK SMACK SMACK

It was a sick display. I didn't watch the whole thing, so maybe there was a few tough questions I might have missed (I am hoping)....It disappoints me that the dems did not challenge this appointment. There needs to be a significant change in the tone of the discussion, (led by the democrats) for any real change on the ground.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

1. It's the senate.

They're usually quite polite, even if they hate each other, or the persons involved in the hearing. That's just the way the Senate is.

[bullimiami]

2. gates is from the bfee bastard squad. he is probably competent.

what kind of nominee do you think we are likely to get from w? not anyone really decent.

[itsmesgd]

3. The idea of these guys pretending to ask him serious questions is sick

This whole event is BS. Also, why does everyone hold the ISG up as being holy devined. It is the job of Congress to conduct oversite of the chimp and his dealings- ever heard of checks and balances. It is not supposed to be the job of "friends" of his and his pa. These are the Iran-Contra and Carlyle Group guys. These weak-kneed dems who voted against him in the 80's like Carl Levin, now think he's great because he's following a complete loser in rummy. It's just sick. I'm waiting for one of these dems to get down on the ground and lick his boot.

[blm]

4. Gates is offering withdrawal from Iraq behind the scenes - so expect any Dem

concerned with withdrawal to be in a hard place on this. I feel torn myself because the greater good will come from certain withdrawal,.

If they consider withdrawal their first priority, it will override every other concern, imo. The good thing is that the position is two years at this point, and it will take a long time to get out, but Gates is also declaring no Iran or Syria invasion.

So it looks, from the pragmatic viewpoint, that Gates' entire time will be taken up with getting out of Iraq.

I am sure the REASON is to keep the pragmatic fascists satisfied that their agenda that Bushboy srewed up royally, can get back on track after the problem of Iraq withdrawal is a settled event. But what else can be hoped for at this point? Bushboy is not going to let anyone else BUT his father's people in on these decsions.

[KoKo]

5. blm, why do you think Gates is offering withdrawal behind the scenes?

Did you read Robert Parry and Ray McGovern's articles on what Gates confirmation will mean?

And, Fred Barnes wrote an article saying Bush is ignoring Poppy and Baker Commission. :shrug:

[blm]

6. I heard it from newsroom chatter on an article that WON'T get printed.

And Bush1 is taking charge, or Bush2 would NEVER have put Gates up to replace Rumsfeld at all.

No doubt they are doing it to save their own future agenda, but what alternative does a staunch withdrawal Dem have for the next 2 years? It only leaves us in the position of making sure that the next Dem administration is not part of the CONTINUING coverup for the whole gang.

[KoKo]

9. There are some articles saying Bush put Gates up to continue his

policies and that saying he's "Poppy's" man is just a smokescreen for endless war.

Who knows. I go with the ones who say Gates is just another enabler for Bush/Cheney and will cover the evidence.

Check out Robert Parry's piece and then read Ray McGoverns. They are here on the GD Front page just above this post. They convinced me that Gates is not going to do any changing of policy.

I found the link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2861281

[blm]

14. I am Parry's biggest fan so I know he's solid. But, he may not have heard this

tidbit about Gates and withdrawal since, as far as I can tell, the news organization who had it won't print it.

[KoKo]

16. Maybe they won't print because the source is a GOP Shill?

Or perhaps unreliable in some other way?

[blm]

17. heh...no...more like those who won't print it are the shills on this one.

I've seen them in action before.

[H2O Man]

18. I think that

a number of DUers are not going to be satisfied by a rumor from a newsroom. They might instead read the 12-4-06 TIME article on Gates, by Michael Duffy, that points out that during the first Bush administration, Gates "sided most often with a Defense Secretary named Dick Cheney."

We also know from Seymour Hersch's 11-20-06 article (The Next War) that, "Bush and his immediate advisers in the White House understood by mid-October that Rumsfeld would have to resign if the result of the midterm election was a resounding defeat. Rumsfeld was involved in conversations about the timing of his departure with Cheney, Gates, and the President before the election…."

We should not mistake this exchange of Gates for Rumsfeld as representing progress.

[blm]

20. I can only guess that Gates' was the acceptable segue figure for the two camps.

The neocons and the pragmatic fascists of Poppy Bush.

[H2O Man]

21. That makes sense.

I also should note that your position is supported by the 12-11-06 TIME article by Duffy (Can Bush Find an Exit?), which states that the administration is going to take a "U-turn" that requires something of a "personality transplant" for the president. The article says that the Baker group has "been compared to a family intervention for a substance-addicted cousin..."

It also quotes a commission source as saying, "He is not stupid. But he is stubborn. And he is very dug in. It takes a big person to find a way to walk back from some of this and embrace reality." (page 44)

I guess we'll begin to see tomorrow. Gates' appointment is evidently part of the Baker-Hamilton program. I hope that you are right, and that something positive can come from this. But I am not confident, at this point.

[blm]

22. Heh - as you can well imagine, I loathe ALL BFEE figures, but with a priority for

withdrawal and the certainty that Gates needs to succeed with withdrawal before BFEE can regroup as a force (since Bushboy was such an enormous setback for them) I have to believe that we will get something we need to happen because they have no choice at this point.

[H2O Man]

24. Most early reports

indicate the Baker group has considered four general options. Assuming these reports are accurate, the four include:

1- Get out fast. Although given "consideration," it is unlikely the group will advocate for this option.

2- Surge Forward. This is possibly the Bush-Cheney plan being advocated in the past three weeks. It included trying to meet the Saudi demand (to Cheney) that the US knee-cap al-Sadr's forces. Bush did not appear to convince Maliki to cooperate with this.

3- Train & Retreat. The option, tried in Vietnam, would move US forces back from the cities, and closer to the oil pipelines. I would bet this is what they recommend.

4- Dig in. This is the opposite of "get out fast." Only Bush and McCain seems to inhabit a world where this seems realistic.

[malaise]

13. Link please n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. Wonderful. Where are the spines???

[savemefromdumbya]

10. Santa is bringing the spines for Christmas

ready for the new year! Just watch the fireworks

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. Still don't see why the current folk in there can't have spines now.

[savemefromdumbya]

15. I know

who knows they may have a gun at their heads

[asjr]

8. I just could not bring myself to

watch. I feel the outcome is enevitable. I am tired of watching grandstanding, mutual admiration societies and the media's take on the whole operation. The media are already telling us who to vote for and who not to vote for. And the pundits--both sides--preaching to each party's choir. The public being treated like kindergarteners is pissing me off. And cable is charging me to watch all this crap. We are no longer players in this farce, just onlookers.

[savemefromdumbya]

12. onlookers for now

[stillcool]

19. I know better than to watch this crap..

but could not avoid CNN while away from home. The entire show is pathetic...a mutual admiration group of elitists, portraying nothing of value. There's more substance in a romance novel.

[blues90]

23. It's a sick joke

I watched part of it then threw up . What can one expect , you would think we would be used to this crap .

Anyone looking for a normal job working in a dump goes through more intense drilling than this .

[MzNov]

29. I agree. The Senate's collective mind was made up. This was a

sickening display of just for show and just simply a courtesy (for the rest of us dummies). The Dems are still spineless and pretty much still clueless. We DO NOT have to settle for Gates. He's a corrupt Iran Contra player, still tied to Bush 41, and still there to save Jr.'s behind.

My hope is with a fresh new House of Reps. I think we'll see some real stars coming out in the 110th Congress. The Senate is a giant closed Boys Club, with a few women who have fit in quite well. Their jobs are secure as they all run for President. Every once in a while one of them will give us hope and stand up to the Bush Crime Family, but in the end, it is the same old circle jerk. Quite quite disappointing.

[Lusted4]

25. That scrotum polisher Pat Roberts made me frickin hurl. Where is

the rest of the 9-11 hearing stuff you POS.
Kansas this Kansas that. Fuck Kansas.

[napi21]

26. I guess some of you will call me gullible, but I watched a few hours

ofthe hearing this AM. I have to admit, Gates didn'tseem to pull any punches. I think it was Levin who asked him "Are we winning in Iraq?" Omstantly, Gates answered "NO!" No elaboration, no excuses, just NO. When asked if he was going to talk truth to power, he said he will speak him mind, put forth his ideas, but we do have only one President, and he's the CIF. I wouldn't have expected him to say anything else.

I say give him a chance. From the first words out of his mouth, he was already 100% better than Rummy!

[Disturbed]

27. The Dems are between Iraq and a hard place, again.

Until there is an actual Dem Majority, Dems feel that they must not appear to be weak on Defense. Voting against Gates would place Dems in the position of obstructing "progress" on Iraq. The Rethugs are desperately searching for a way out of Iraq without appearing to admit defeat. This will drag on for another year at least. The Troops will be pulled back to minimize casualties, which seems to be the main complaint. Gates will be confirmed. What will happen next is anybody's guess.

[MzNov]

30. The Dems put themselves there. And I'm pretty sure we can

guess what's next. Of course they'll confirm Gates. No one cares to actually be a leader.

[blm]

28. That's what the senate is stuck with - ANYONE is better than Rummy, but Gates

is there for Bush1 and making it better for the Saudis - and that means withdrawal from Iraq while maintaining a small force close enough to jump in if hostilities turn towards House of Saud.