Cindy Sheehan Does NOT Speak For Me

[ruggerson]

I hate this war as much as anyone, and she has my sincere sympathy for her loss, as do all the families that have suffered, both here and in Iraq, in this godforsaken conflict.

But she does not speak for me. When she pulls publicity stunts, she is not representative of THIS Democrat, and I know that there are many others who feel similarly.

So, you hear me, mainstream media?

Do NOT attempt to tar all Democrats because of the actions of one person.

She is ONE person, acting as she sees fit, and she has every right to speak out, even with civil disobedience, if she deems it necessary.

But that is HER decision. And the consequences for her actions should be HERS alone.

She DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ME.

[tularetom]

1. Publicity stunt?

She doesn't speak for me either but lighten up dude. All she did was wear a fuckin tee shirt.

[ruggerson]

10. She was INVITED

and she just metaphorically spat in the face of Lynne Woolsey, who got her the tickets.

Good going!

[karlrschneider]

24. Metaphorically speaking is a crime now?

jesusfuckingchrist, I missed some legislation.

[Telly Savalas]

25. Oh bullshit.

I'd venture to guess Woolsey is proud of her.

[dchill]

33. "metaphorically spat..."

What a concept!

[txindy]

38. So, Cindy doesn't speak for you, but YOU speak for Lynne Woolsey?

Or did Woolsey come out and actually say that Cindy "metaphorically spat" in her face?

I'm betting not.

[RoyGBiv]

45. Nonsense ...

I dare say you don't speak for Lynne Woolsey either. Given your record of tearing at the corners of anything and everything Sheehan has done since she left Crawford, I'm guessing you wouldn't have gotten her tickets had you been in Woolsey's position, which suggests she had at least some clue what she was doing when she did it.

If Woolsey thinks Cindy spat in her face, she'll say so.

From my vantage point, Cindy "metaphorically" spat in Bush's face, which is why she was escorted out like some kid who is considered a trouble-maker and is constantly in the eye of the principal who looks for any small infraction to justify trying to humiliate him or her.

[0rganism]

Excuse me? Was there a DRESS CODE?

Did she know beforehand that WEARING A FUCKING T-SHIRT WOULD GET HER ARRESTED?

You just metaphorically spat in my face with your post. Good going.

[adarling]

172. Cindy is a patriot that we all could learn something from

so get off your high horse people and realize what this woman is fighting for.

[adarling]

174. my first message was meant for all the thread not you

sorry :)

[Pacifist Patriot]

340. LOL! I'm going to guess Lynne doesn't see it that way. But then again,

I don't speak for her.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

247. The SOTU.

The ultimate publicity stunt.

[MrBenchley]

2. On the other hand

whatever Cindy Sheehan has to say isn't nearly as significant as the fact that this gutless fraud in the White House, whose supporters used to gush was so "brave" and "manly," is utterly terrified in public of a middle aged American lady.

AGAIN.

[derby378]

11. Wow. You and I actually agree on something!

:toast:

[baldguy]

48. no - they're afraid of a t-shirt

a middle-aged lady just happened to be wearing it

[cheezus]

3. wow, want to enumerate them all for us?

democrats/anti-war people who get media attention who don't speak for you I mean. Since you complained about her specifically, should I assume that all of the rest DO speak for you?

[AverageJoe]

4. You're right

We all need to sit down and shut up and keep our powder dry. That works very, very well. :sarcasm:

[Cascadian]

5. Oh come on!

This is somebody who has earned my respect for making the stand she has taken. It is more than I can say about certain traitorous and spineless so-called Democratic lawmakers. Cindy Sheehan is the future. I am glad she at least made a galiant attempt to draw attention to the Iraq fiasco and Bush's incompetence.

People who give a damn can no longer play it safe, sit down, and shut anymore. I hope Cindy and more like here never ever play it safe, sit down, and shut up EVER!


John

[Opusnone]

6. Do you speak for yourself?

What have you done to register your displeasure?
I respect your feeling embarrassed for her, but I think she has raised awareness of this illegal war more than any of our illustrious congress critters or senators. And that IS important.

[G_j]

7. they hate us for our t-shirts

ah freedom! :sarcasm:

[GoldenOldie]

13. I'm sure the millions of jews in Europe wished they had someone, anyone

speak for them

Thank God for the Cindy Sheehans. If now is not the time, when will the time be?

[calimary]

236. Good point. VERY good point. And btw, she does speak for me, too.

Another mother for Cindy, here. It's just too bad we don't have more, and more open, gestures of genuine defiance and truth-telling. NOBODY wants to come straight out and say it, it seems, but Cindy. Hell, I even heard joe scarborough, of all people, complaining about that - as in "why don't they just come out and say the war was wrong?"

Everybody else is still too damned busy playing it safe all the time, and just look where playing it safe has gotten us.

[HEyHEY]

268. What the hell is wrong with some of you people?

[Solly Mack]

LMAO!

lololol

[upi402]

40. LOL,

[orleans]

211. that is so true.

especially the one that says:
IMPEACHMENT: IT'S NOT JUST FOR BLOWJOBS ANYMORE

[Pastiche423]

8. You're pissed because of a tee shirt???

Damn, I wish my life was as simple as yours seems to be.

[Raster]

9. She damn well speaks for me!!! Thank goddess she's got the 'nads to do it

The only thing you get from taking the high road is a nosebleed.

[clitzpah queen]

64. 'Scuse me, Rasta, SHE's got Clitzpah! and

Ruggerson needs to go crawl under a rug at this point in time......

[bullimiami]

12. consequences? for doing what was once protected in this "free" country?

give me a break.

[Bonobo]

14. yaaaawn....

[janx]

15. She speaks for herself,

and countless others.

[bpilgrim]

16. ruggerson & BUSH & most of LEADERS don't speak for me

fyi

peace

[Cleita]

32. Thank you.

:applause:

[ruggerson]

42. I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself

and I certainly don't buy the groupthink cult of personality bullshit.

[RoyGBiv]

65. Except for Lynne Woolsey, of course ...

You spoke for her earlier.

[ruggerson]

114. Uh, no I didn't

That was my interpretation of events, and I did not say it was Woolsey's. IMHO, if you're invited to an event like the SOTU, you behave accordingly. There is a time and a place for protest. Those are MY feelings on being civil and responsible. No one else's.

[Liberal Veteran]

124. I bet Rosa Parks didn't speak for you either...

....or the people who did the Boston Tea Party.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you and I am tired of spineless democrats thinking playing nice with these fascists is gonna turn the tide.

[RoyGBiv]

128. Interesting twist of logic ...

But, okay. Whatever you say.

[tyedyeto]

140. What did she do to protest? A fucking t-shirt?

Give me a fucking break. A shirt does not a protest make.

Be realistic here. Do you honestly believe that wearing a t-shirt should get you arrested?

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

171. you're your own man

you and all the others who despise the group think...

:rofl:

[coalition_unwilling]

323. Would that be the group that despises group think? (LOL)

[femrap]

192. what do YOUR t-shirts say? I bet I disagree with YOUR

t-shirts....and since I am in power, I am going to have you arrested.

Ain't america grand?

[otohara]

17. Any Publicity is GOOD Publicity

marketing 101 - you think these assholes aren't marketing us to death????

[Nevernose]

18. I wish I'D had tickets

I would've dropped trou and shown * what I REALLY think of him.

[RoyGBiv]

19. Well, that's lovely.

Good night, Irene.

[verse18]

20. She speaks for the thousands of dead American soldiers

[Telly Savalas]

21. I feel that way about a huge chunk of the Democratic Congressional caucus

Maybe if more of them would at least pretend to be an opposition party, people like Sheehan wouldn't have to go to such extreme measures like...er...wearing a t-shirt with an anti-war message.

[Moochy]

22. My what a brave little toaster

[Andromeda]

23. I think the consequences will be hers,

but she does have a big following. I wouldn't have done what she did but I must say that it sure took guts.

The media is--well, just what it is and they're probably going to paint all Democrats with one brush no matter what we do.

Relax, the world's not going to come to an end because Cindy Sheehan was arrested for civil disobedience.

I just wish more people would do it. :)

[Charlie Brown]

183. No. She was arrested for "unlawful conduct"

and that's complete bull$hit. Wearing a politcally-themed t-shirt is not a crime.

[yellowdogmi]

276. it is now in amerika

Two of the bill of rights down. Eight to go. fucktards.

[Andromeda]

313. Apparently you need to...

polish up on your reading comprehension. I didn't say what she did was a crime and I wasn't dissing her. Geesh!

[The Gunslinger]

26. HOW DARE she wear a shirt.......Send her to the gulag

Her arrest is fascist crap, and I personally dont really agree with Cindy lately. But I'll support her right to wear a shirt with a number on it.

[dchill]

27. OK, then...

she speaks for me. It was a t-shirt displaying the number of soldiers killed Iraq. The nerve.

[Pithy Cherub]

28. Cindy DARES to take on King George - that TOTALLY works for me!

Cindy is Cindy and I applaud her for doing what is necessary to get America to wake up!

[Cleita]

29. She was wearing a T-Shirt.

If that was subversive, how about no T-Shirt and the message spray-painted on her naked upper body. Now that would be a stunt and I hope you realize how silly your reasons are.

[bigtree]

30. she did good!

she speaks for me. shake em up Cindy!

[Pirate Smile]

31. This was an extremely passive form of civil disobedience.

If she stood up, slashed her wrists and flung herself off the balcony during the speech that would be one thing, but this was just a T-shirt.

I'd be surprised if Lynn Wolsey is very upset - or even surprised.

[Cleita]

36. Yes, she is doing civil disobedience, something the rest of

us should gear up to.

[Charlie Brown]

This was NOT civil disobedience

civil disobedience involves intentionally breaking the law. Cindy did nothing that was illegal.

This is f****** outrageous.

[txindy]

251. Agreed. There was nothing illegal.

Security created a media frenzy, though. This will last for days, possibly weeks.

Way to go, security! :toast: Not what you had planned as an outcome, surely, but..... :patriot:

:rofl:

[xiamiam]

34. ok

[Junkdrawer]

35. The SOTU is about suits, dresses and polite applause. A reminder...

about dead 20-something kids is just tacky, I guess.

[RoyGBiv]

59. Yeah, it's fairly irritating ...

Various commentators were talking up the "pageantry" of a SOTU event, suggesting that it was a time for all people to put aside their differences and celebrate the wonder that is America, i.e. sit down, shut up, and be a good little sheep.

Funny thing is neither those talking heads nor most of the American public seem to realize the President is exercising a Constitutionally mandated duty by giving a SOTU address, and the intent behind it was in no way "pageantry" or putting aside any differences. It was intended to compell the leader of the executive to come before Congress and answer for his actions and for the state of the union.

Bush didn't fulfill that duty and never has. Of course, to be fair, few Presidents have since, maybe, Carter. Carter got raked over the coals for doing so.

[RapidCreek]

Beautiful post!

RC

[BushOut06]

37. I agree wholeheartedly - that bitch pisses me off just by living

I mean, how dare she present her opinion. She's opposed to the war in Iraq, wants to bring our troops home now - what kind of looney left wing commie crap is that? How dare that goddamned bitch think she can actually show up in Washington and demand accountability? :sarcasm:

[lildreamer316]

39. Nice disabled profile.

(bet I'll be deleted for that).

[mmonk]

41. Did she ask to speak for you?

[LSK]

43. WHY DONT YOU WAIT FOR THE FACTS 1ST

NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE WHAT HAPPENED YET, BUT YOU ARE QUICK TO CRITICIZE HER?!?!?!

[movonne]

44. Why not...What did she do that was so bad, wearing a t-shirt..while

ann coulter can go out and say horrible things about liberals and I don't hear the repugs saying she doesn't speak for for me..

[Berserker]

56. T-Shirt with the number of American dead

and she gets arrested? What country do we live in? How dare she tell the truth she should keep that a secret so the American people don't know the truth. SHE SPEAKS FOR ME.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gregorian]

47. Maybe you don't really know Cindy Sheehan.

She has done more for us than you might know. Walking the halls of Congress, pleading with our representatives to do the right thing. Sacrificing her life to end this nightmare. Working towards impeachment.

I heard her with Johnson's attorney general, Ramsey Clark, where she spoke all of our talking points. She talked about how Bush isn't even elected. He has multiple unconstitutional strikes against him, before we even start to talk NSA.

I will not cower to the conservatives. It's time we stand up tall. Speak out. Wear clothing in protest. Do the inappropriate.

Do the inappropriate.

[understandinglife]

49. I would be honored if she ever considered speaking for me.

Peace.

[Not a robought]

50. "So, you hear me, mainstream media?"

Uhhhhm, yeah.... no. Don't think they really care about your interpretation of what she represents.

[slor]

51. How dare you!

You worry about the media tarring "all Democrats because of the actions of one person". Guess what, we are in a war that is going to destroy our country eventually, one that this media promoted, and this is your worry? Being associated with Cindy? You had better wake up, my friend, because believe me, that is the least of our problems.

[ruggerson]

67. I dare

because I have the right to my opinon. Just like Ms. Sheehan does.

As you have a right to your mock indignation.

[Not a robought]

104. For someone concerned about the rights to opinions

You sure do an impressive, albeit cowardly acrobatic position on her consequences for allegedly wearing a T-shirt. Media 1, You 0.

[unschooler]

52. Where can I get a shirt like Cindy's?

Shrubbie needs to see those EVERYWHERE he goes. :evilgrin:

[Lifelong Protester]

184. first one who sees where the shirts are available...

let us know here! Peace out, and goodnight NSA....

[recoveringrepublican]

244. I second it, let me know if you see one.

[stepnw1f]

53. BooHooHoo...No, She Speaks for the Rest of US!!! (nt)

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[951-Riverside]

122. I'll say it AGAIN She speaks for me and MY family!!

[graywarrior]

57. At least fill out your profile like the rest of us do.

[dogday]

58. Do you have a child in danger in Iraq?

If not, then shut up... I do and I am going to tell you what hell it is to worry every damn day about my only son. She speaks for me, she speaks for a lot of mothers who have lost their son due to this unjust war and mother like me who don't want to be in her position.

So unless you really know what it is like, then you don't know squat....

[ruggerson]

74. I have every right to speak out

just as you do. So keep on speaking your piece. But telling someone to "shut up" ain't really the American way, ya know.

Peace.

[Cults4Bush]

85. Quit making this a free speech issue, its not.

You posted some serious flamebait there for the classiest act of civil disobedience seen in decades. Im not gonna jump your shit here but please stop with the faux indignation. You were 100% aware of what kind of shit you were going to illicit in response.

[ruggerson]

93. Sure it's a free speech issue

look at all the personal attacks and the cult of personality hysterics because I posted that she doesn't speak for me. I didn't tell HER to shut up, nor would I, I was telling the mainstream media not to tar all of us with one brush. A message, it seems, some want to squelch.

[RoyGBiv]

101. No, it's not ....

You have not been denied your right to speak. I am denying the validity of what you said. Of course I want to squelch a message I think is ridiculous, but I do so by indicating how I feel about it, not by forcing you to shut up.

[Cults4Bush]

118. You said it much better than I here...

Thank you.

[ruggerson]

121. The post I was responding to

told me to "shut up."

I don't know how you infer that I then cannot appropriately respond that I have every right to convey my thoughts, as does the poster in question.

My original OP had nothing to with free speech, it was about the media attempting to tar all Democrats with actions of one individual.

[RoyGBiv]

142. And?

How is one poster, who is not a moderator or administrator or anyone who has any power over your ability to speak, infringing on your speech by telling you that?

Trust me when I say this. If I really and truly wanted to silence you, the *last* thing I would do is tell you to shut up because I know quite well that guarantees that you won't. This is not a criticism. I'm much the same in that regard.

My point and I think the point of others who have commented on this tangent is that you've gone away from the issue and twisted it into one that tries to make you out as a victim of an attempt silence you or force you into a group mentality. Heaven knows I don't agree with a lot of what is said in this forum by a lot of people, and I often go against the majority grain and pay dearly for it with jabs and barbs. I was in a distinct minority yesterday, for example. But in my interactions with those with whom I disagree when they are in the majority, I do not and will not accuse them of something so inciting as "group-think" or attempting to silence me. When I face these groups of people who disagree with what I say, I am facing an opinion held my a large number of people. That by itself doesn't make them wrong and me right, which is what the "group-think" insult attempts to convey. Reasonable discourse does not advance in this manner.

[ruggerson]

159. Well that's valid

and I tend to respect those who speak their mind with intellectual honesty regardless of who may or may not agree with them. If this is an unpopular opinion, so be it. It doesn't change my feelings one bit.

[Telly Savalas]

181. It'd be nice if they'd "tar" the Democrats by accusing them of

supporting rational policy in Iraq.

[femrap]

204. do you have a family member or friend who has been killed in this war?

If you don't, maybe shutting up is good advice...maybe you could LISTEN instead.

You think this war of death is ALL ABOUT YOU? Your ego needs to step down and take a rest. The msm is not talking about little ol' you.

I wish YOU had one tenth the courage and empathy that Cindy Sheehan has...and if you did, you wouldn't have posted what you did. Your post almost sounds bushian....arrogant...just like him.

[RoyGBiv]

97. Well said ...

I have gone beyond annoyed and straight into bored with people becoming all indignant and whining about attempts to suppress their speech when in fact what is happening is that people are disagreeing with that speech and the validity of the criticism made.

No one has deleted the initial post. While I think it is nothing but pure flamebait, I personally didn't even alert on it and never would. Of course the original poster has the right to speak, and I have the right to say I think what was said is crap.

[ruggerson]

103. trust me

no indignance here. just mild amusement that a post about the MEDIA response to this woman raised so much ire. And my point that I have a right to my opinion was in response to a post telling me to "shut up." Can't get much more about free speech than that. Can ya.

:)

[RoyGBiv]

117. Will all due respect ...

I cannot view your comments on Sheehan in the vacuum of a single post. While ostensibly your OP in this thread was about media response and a demand that you be counted as an individual who is both a Democrat and someone who does not necessarily agree with all Sheehan does or says, your comments on her actions in the past, and about which we have come to blows before, color my view of those remarks. Maybe that's a problem on my part. Maybe it's simply the result of association and awareness of people's opinions behind the face of their words and should not be avoided. Regardless, *your* speech is not being suppressed here, and you know that.

As before, you had a point to make, and I believe you made it badly. You could have made the same point without the context given by the subject line, which came across as a polar opposite copycat of other threads supporting her actions. I believe you did that intentionally, fully aware of the reaction it would generate, which you then could come along and criticize as "group-think."

[ruggerson]

130. If you think

I thought out the OP and then thought out the reaction the OP might get, and then went back and tailored the OP to give me another argument to buttress the original one, knowing in advance what the reaction might be.... you must think I'm Karnak.

I wrote what I wrote briefly, quickly and out of frustration with the MSM. It ain't calculated. It's how I feel. So sue me. <shrug>

[RoyGBiv]

144. No ...

I just think you've been around DU long enough and are intelligent enough to know how people will react to certain strings of words.

[ruggerson]

149. Well maybe they should actually read the OP

then and digest it before getting all hysterically bent out of shape.

Just a suggestion.

[RoyGBiv]

161. Yeah, sure ...

Headlines mean nothing, and they especially mean nothing when they have capitalized words in them that fly directly in the face of what others had been posting just moments before.

It's our fault. We can't read. You're misunderstood, just as you were misunderstood the first time you went off on a rant about Sheehan and then claimed innocence when hundreds of people interpreted your remarks in exactly the same way but which you later claimed was incorrect. I'm sorry I cannot take your words at face value. I've seen too much of a pattern. Same story that time ... group think, freedom of speech ... not what I said. Okayfine.

I'm going to bed now. I've said my piece. You may have the last word.

[ruggerson]

175. Uh, right

I had not read any posts other than the one in LBN which said that she was arrested for unfurling a banner.

The OP was a reaction to that. It's a little bizarre that you keep attributing motive and strategy to me that go way beyond what is a simple expression of opinion.

But, hey, whatever rocks your fictional boat.

[sciouscience]

309. no offence personally towards ruggerson but...

this is no longer worth discussing or even reading on as i admittedly have not nor will not, so anyone still reading i heartily recommend a new thread and to anyone who has posted beyond this, may those posts be archived in perpetuity!

[janx]

169. Oh, so now it's the media response, yeah?

Cindy Sheehan is a large historical figure, no matter what you or the media make her.

She is marvelous.

[dogday]

316. So speaking of things you know nothing about

makes it alright. You still have no clue, unless you have a vested interest in this war, with a child involved, then come back and tell me about Cindy's feelings and then tell me about yours and how it feels to worry that one day your child might die and then does in Cindy's case.

It is people like you who have no idea what it feels like to give life and then have it taken away because of lies and misconceptions and deciet... No recourse to fight this feeling of helplessness.

[Cults4Bush]

79. Dogday! Raise your voice Mom, People need to know that she was speaking

for a lot Military Moms.

Seriously please consider doing a thread thanking her, I'll kick that thing to hell and back for you.

[neoblues]

60. While she probably knew it woudn't be well received,

I doubt that she did it as a "publicity" stunt. In any case, you seem to be strangely 'sensitive' to be embarrassed over such a minor instance in which Democrats might be 'villanized"--especially when Democrats are likewise villanized to much more egregious degrees almost daily. At least Cindy actually stands up for what she believes and has the courage to express her views (and her views are properly Democratic) while most of us quietly complain. We need more people like her.

[Berserker]

61. Publicity stunt?

You just watched the BIGGEST Publicity stunt on the planet.

[sludge man]

62. My son is in Iraq right now

and Cindy DOES speak for me!

[dogday]

63. Right on Sludge Man, so is mine

I hope everything is ok with your son... My thoughts and prayers...


edited to Welcome the Sludge Man To Du ....

[Disturbed]

72. Bravo for her!

Has she ever claimed to represent the Dem Party or Dems?

[AZBlue]

320. My thoughts & prayers go out to you & Sludge Man & your families!

May you both see their smiling faces again soon!

[G_j]

66. thank you! , and welcome to DU

god speed your son home safe and sound!

[Raster]

68. Bless you heart and your son's too. Your son should not be in Iraq.

Welcome to DU. You have friends here.:hi:

[Solly Mack]

70. Best wishes to you and your son!!!

Cindy speaks for this military wife.

[lildreamer316]

76. Sludge man..

please feel free to join other families like you in our Miltary families support group.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=356

Welcome!
:hi:

[sludge man]

81. Thanks, I'll be there.

[LSK]

87. welcome to DU!

I pray your son comes home safe.

[faithnotgreed]

253. right on sludge man - were glad youre here

all our best to your son and family

[liberaltrucker]

305. A belated Welcome to DU, SM

My prayers for your son's safe return:patriot:

[Berserker]

69. Better see this thread

and see how she don't speak for you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x287495

[bigwillq]

73. CINDY SPEAKS FOR ME!

:bounce:

[mitchum]

75. Well, she does speak for me, but with a lot less profanity...

than I would use.
BECAUSE I TRULY DESPISE THE GODDAMN SHIT-EATING VILE NAZI SCUMBAG MOTHERFUCKERS WHO ARE RUNNING THIS COUNTRY!

[samhsarah]

182. sounds like YOU speak for me, mitchum

but I think you left out fucktard asswipe fascist vermin.:+

[deutsey]

77. Um, I think she's speaking out of conscience, not as a Party functionary

More power to her.

Though, I take your point about the media turning her into a spokesperson, what with personal conscience not being something they can grasp.

Fucked up times we live in, aint't they? :evilfrown:

[midnight]

78. Cindy Sheehan

Cindy is so courages in all the ways she makes people notice the lies being passed off by our govt. Does anyone know what she said?

[RoyGBiv]

92. Welcome to DU!!!

:hi:

[Junkdrawer]

80. Malloy is going apeshit over this post...

Malloy speaks for me... :thumbsup:

[sheelz]

82. Malloy speaks for me too!!!!

Give em hell Mike!

[RoyGBiv]

86. Go Malloy!!!

:toast:

[Canuckistanian]

88. Gotta agree with him

There'll be LOTS of criticism about this from the RW talking heads tomorrow.

[Individualist]

89. Loved what Malloy said!

:)

[LincolnMcGrath]

94. Malloy put words to my thoughts as well, on this issue.

Roger Stewart for Iowa Senate :grouphug: :loveya: The LOWDOWN on CLINTON :hug: :hi: Elesha Gayman for Iowa House

[LittleClarkie]

91. Malloy reads DU?

Hi Mike :hi:

[deutsey]

112. Malloy goes way back with DU

His wife/producer used to post here frequently, in fact.

[samhsarah]

185. He mentions DU or random posts from DU all the time.

[deutsey]

110. What's he saying?

[Junkdrawer]

127. About a five minute incredulous rant....

It will be here later:

http://www.whiterosesociety.org

[slaveplanet]

145. Malloy is just pounding ruggerson

better say uncle

[Balbus]

324. Mike Malloy is angry about something?

Damn, that's a shock. :wow:

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

84. I'm waiting to see what she actually did

Right now, looking at the Reuters photos, I don't even see a tshirt.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[truth2power]

95. Well, she STILL speaks for me!!

[liberalhistorian]

Agree totally, ruggerson,

and thanks for having the guts to post this. She totally lost me when she actually met with Chavez, which was nuts. This was just stupid and it makes us all look bad.

[libnnc]

106. what on earth did you expect her to do?

Sit there quietly and wave like a good little grieving mom?

Good Lord!

So what, she met with Chavez. I'd like to meet with Chavez. She's a citizen and she can meet whomever she pleases.

[Spazito]

107. No surprise there n/t

[samhsarah]

187. What is wrong with her meeting with Chavez?

Is Chavez an enemy of America? I must have missed that. I know Chavez doesn't like Bush, but neither do we. Does that make us enemies of America?

[MODemocrat]

96. She does speak for me

How could any of those damned republicans be embarrased or feign embarrasment when they are the most corrupt and no good administration in history? I'm tired of people taking up for Bushgang at every turn. She lost her son in this damned worthless war for oil, I don't blame her for anything. How much more should she give to this now fascist country?

[Spazito]

98. Interesting, I am not even American and she speaks for me

Guess what....the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq affects more than YOU and she speaks for many, many people not just in the United States. Given your response, I am sure she is glad she isn't speaking for YOU.

[Clara T]

99. Me neither!!!!!!!- I speak for myself!!!!!!

And I support Cindy Sheehan 100%!!!!!! But I have been taught to get in the way of criminals even if it means endangering myself. I have been taught to speak truth to power. I have been taught to protest and point out injustice. That's how it goes in my family.

So I support ALL THOSE who have been protesting the Bush Junta 100%!!
I support ALL THOSE who have been arrested protesting the Bush junta 100%!!

Sitting on our hands gets us nowhere! Petitions will accomplish NOTHING!!
These people in DC DON'T CARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[omega minimo]

100. THE WHOLE FUCKING SOTU WAS ONE BIG "PUBLICITY STUNT"

"But she does not speak for me. When she pulls publicity stunts, she is not representative of THIS Democrat, and I know that there are many others who feel similarly."

Grow up, Ruggerson, and "many others who fell similarly."

[haydukelives]

102. Cindy speeks for me

[Hippo_Tron]

105. You don't think it would've been great if she had ruined Bush's speech?

All she was doing was wearing a t-shirt. Now could you imagine how funny it would've been if they had arrested her during the speech for a t-shirt on live national television. Bush's speech would've been ruined and they would've looked like idiots for arresting a woman for a t-shirt.

If this is the real story, I'm pissed at Cindy for not being smart and waiting until the speech.

[messiah]

108. The DLC is out in full force

[bvar22]

109. We do.

[chookie]

111. Publicity stunt?

I did not know what Cindy did before I read your post. Your post was such a strong condemnation that I figured she must have done something really revolting. I researched it, and found out that she was removed from the gallery when it was discovered that she was wearing an antiwar t shirt.

Are you upset about *that*? Really?

You'da really been pissed off by Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King -- now there were a couple of troublemakers!

I am quite shocked by your strong condemnation of this non-violent action taken against the war. What do you think civil disobedience looks like?

I bet Condi, growing up in ALabama, used to tell people that MLK didn't speak for her....

[SmokingJacket]

113. So you support the war? nt

[LittleClarkie]

139. False dichotomy

Saying that either you support Cindy or you support the war is like Bush saying either you support him or you support the terrorists. You don't have to agree with everything the woman says, even if you are a war protester yourself. And the OP clearly says that he does NOT support the war.

That said, we don't even know what the hell happened. I want to hear her side of it. Right now, it reminds me of the 2004 Bush rallies. All that fuss for a harmless tshirt.

[Liberal Veteran]

115. So she doesn't speak for the invertebrate wing of the party...

I can live that.

She does speak for me and many other democrats who have a spine.

[Ariana Celeste]

116. She speaks for me.

My SO's stepdad is out there hauling fuel right now. Has been for over a year.

He's a good man who loves his country and loves his family. He has a good heart. He volunteered to go out there because he is a Gulf War vet. And he felt it was his duty to be out there with all of our young soldiers. His heart is in the right place. I support him and all of our men and women- and they need to be brought home NOW.

[Liberal Veteran]

119. Playing nice with the repubs has been a fucking disaster....

...and you condemn this woman for have a spine?

[tyedyeto]

120. There's a dress code for the SOTU? She wore a T-shirt for God's sake!

She was NOT arrested for speaking out of turn. Her only crime was to wear a t-shirt that the POTUS decreed unappropriate. As an invited guest, she should be able to wear whatever she damn well pleases.

To the OP, I don't give a shit if she speaks for you. But you better realize... when there's no one else to speak, they'll haul you away just for posting on this website whether you agree with Cindy or not. That is the reality of today.

[jonnyblitz]

123. CINDY SPEAKS FOR ME! jonnyblitz , USN 1984 thru 1994 nt.

[Liberal Veteran]

125. She speaks for this veteran too....

Bravo Cindy!

[jonnyblitz]

155. ...

:thumbsup:

[deutsey]

126. Aren't you afraid of being associated with the likes of her?

:sarcasm:

[jonnyblitz]

154. hell no!! give me her over these timid moderate DEMS any

friggen day. :hi:

[Liberal Veteran]

164. Timid my ass.....the word is "spineless".

This country is in such a mess because of spineless democrats who keep thinking if we just play nice and polite, the republicans will reciprocate.

[bpilgrim]

131. BM3, Pilot Rescue Swimmer 84-88

peace

[jonnyblitz]

I was SK1.

:hi:

[RoyGBiv]

297. Salute ...

:patriot:

[Beelzebud]

129. And you don't speak for me.

So take your friendly fascism and stuff it up your ass.

[FXDS]

132. She Speaks for Me!

Being nice to these bastards doesn't cut it.

[Beelzebud]

133. LOL You have brought on the wrath of Mike Malloy.

She speaks for her son, not the SPINELESS.

[Cetacea]

143. Yes, you should call into his show. Be brave, like Cindy.. eom.

[Individualist]

147. Malloy rocks!

:woohoo:

[Pacifist Patriot]

342. What did he say for those of us unable to listen?

[robbedvoter]

134. She definitely spoke for me tonight!

[antonialee839]

135. She speaks for many with loved ones killed and injured in Iraq.

She speaks for this mother.

[Generic Other]

136. Ruggerson, Malloy just called you a "dumb ass" on his show

He read your thread. And said of course Cindy didn't speak for you, she spoke for her dead son.

[Liberal Veteran]

150. And Mike Malloy DOES speak for me on that.

:D

[Individualist]

168. I heard that too

:rofl:

[Zen Democrat]

137. She's speaking FOR HER DEAD SON! Not for you or me -- but Casey.

[redherring]

138. She doesn't speak for me either

Although I opposed going to Iraq because I knew this sort of guerilla warfare would arise, we are there now and we need to fix the mess we have created. America can't just leave a country in a mess and let Iraqis clean up what we messed up. That's immoral in my humble opinion. Plus, I really don't want a Taliban-style government in Iraq.

[Zen Democrat]

151. Gee, that would be great. But Bush fucked up and there's no way to fix it.

We could stay there 20 years and things won't get better -- we'll just lose 50,000. It was a huge and tragic blunder, brought about by deliberately deceiving the American people.

We're not fighting terrorists. We're fighting Iraqi insurgents. Do you know what that means? It means we're fighting Iraqis who want us out. It's called quagmire. It's what many of us warned would happen in 2002. It was opening Pandora's Box and there's no way to close it.

At some point we will cut and run. It's another Vietnam, but with much worse consequences. The only question now is how many more will die before we leave. But, leave we will, and it won't be a stable democracy when we do.

This horror didn't have to happen. But Bush foisted it upon us with lies, lies and more lies.

[tyedyeto]

162. Interesting post

"Plus, I really don't want a Taliban-style government in Iraq."

I believe it's already there. The fundamentalist Muslims in Iraq already have the majority after the last elections. They have ruled that Islamic Law will supercede anything the newly elected Iraq government wants to enact. Can you say "Iraq Taliban"?

edit for spelling

[chookie]

180. "Guerilla warfare?"

She did not lob a molotov cocktail or commit any other violent act. She didn't even disrupt the speech.

Okay, you feel strongly that we should stay in Iraq to straighten it out, but does that mean that everyone who disagrees with you should either shut up or be jailed?

[femrap]

216. You better start worrying about the Taliban-sytle government that

we have here in America....didn't you hear that 5 states introduced legislation TODAY that would ban ALL abortions unless the mother's life was at risk. NO EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPE OR INCEST....

Welcome to the American Taliban! Time to Wake up and smell the fascism!

[bloom]

141. Anyone who goes along with her arrest for wearing a t-shirt

is out of his or her fucking mind.

[donheld]

146. Oh poor you

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

148. while she doesnt speak for me either

in that i find her approach rather odd. i also dont see why so much of a big deal is made of one unarmed grieving mother.

[FreedomAngel82]

152. So speak for your fucking self

As Mike Malloy said THE ONLY PERSON SHE SPEAKS FOR IS HER SON! SHE DOESN'T SPEAK FOR YOU. FIND YOUR OWN VOICE! I do stand with Cindy Sheehan and have found my own voice just like she and the rest of the anti-war protestors found their's. God speed and bless her.

[meisje]

153. A poorly planned stunt

[Liberal Veteran]

157. Hardly.....notice what everyone is talking about?

It ain't Chimpy's empty words.

[meisje]

166. only giving msm more ammo and the dems will take the hits

[Liberal Veteran]

173. So what? In case you haven't noticed, even when we play nice and polite...

....we get trashed by the right wing media.

So maybe it's time for us to stop worrying so much what "they" will say and make a stand.

Do you think the folks at the Boston Tea Party said, "Shitte! Ye Old Town Criers will use this against us tomorrow throughout the colonies!"?

[Lars39]

176. They arrest a Gold Star mother for wearing a t-shirt with the # of dead,

I'd say the administration should be worried about how this appears.

[Telly Savalas]

186. What ammo?

What did she do wrong?

[Vanje]

224. That "stunt "made national news within minutes

What have you done this evening?

[Atman]

156. Yeah! NO STUNTS! Like, no purple band-aids! Right?

Damn her! How dare she. The republicans would never do anything like that.

(Remember the Purple band-aids).

[FreedomAngel82]

160. And the purple fingers

[upi402]

178. Really! good point. those phony bastards

[noamnety]

158. The number of dead BELONGS in the SOTU speech

That's PART of the state of our union. It's incomprehensible that referencing the number of troop casualties is considered a crime at the State of the Union Address of a country that's engaged in a war.

Just incomprehensible.

[QC]

163. ruggerson does NOT speak for me.

Sorry, but I'm with Cindy on this one.

[uppityperson]

165. She speaks for herself. I stand with her. That is all.

[tsuki]

167. No shit. Cindy speaks for Cindy. If you've got something to say,

then say it.

[Rainscents]

170. What Cindy Sheehan does, it is NOT for you...

She is doing for her DEAD son! She has more guts than all the Congress and Senates put together! BTW, she speak for ME!!!

[Charlie Brown]

177. Do you believe that expressing political opinions is "a publicity stunt?"

Cindy was arrested b/c the Capitol Police did not care for the political dimensions of her shirt.

You're okay with that?

[Name removed]

179. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

188. That's nice. I'm anti-war and she speaks for me...

but, as another poster so aptly said, with a lot less profanity.

[fooj]

189. Ruggerson...does this look like a "publicity stunt" to you?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x287495

Me neither.

Peace.

[samhsarah]

196. Whoa, Ruggerson, looks like her "stunt" is missing the props...

Where's the f*cking tee shirt?

[poverlay]

190. What's more American than wearing a T shirt? You know it's over when

we're arrested for wearing a T shirt and the American public is to stupid, lazy, and uncaring to rise up in protest. I think it illuminates the current administration's true intention perfectly.

I'm wearing softpants to my next business meeting...

[Balbus]

191. Does it hurt lugging around balls of steel like that?

Bravely said.

[scarface2004]

193. wrong!!!

you ain't no dem. she most definitely does speak for us!!

[Daphne08]

194. I would not have done what she did tonight, but I find it appalling

that they arrested her.

Why are they so afraid of her?

I think THAT is the question we should be asking.

[oldgrowth]

201. There afraid of the Truth!!

[autorank]

195. She probably wouldn't want to;) n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

197. Cool. She sure as shit speaks for ME.

I'm proud of My Representative for inviting her to the speech, and I'm appalled that our dear so-called leader can bloviate about freedom being on the fucking march while someone is hauled off and arrested -- for a t-shirt.

[NoAmericanTaliban]

198. Capital Building or Reichtag?

The capital police was probably waiting for her to do something so she could be removed. Wearing a t-shirt with the number of troops killed (including her son) in Iraq is a first admenment right. This may work in her favor, big news item tonight & on all the scrools including CSPAN- just had a segment on CNN about it. Might make the talk show ciruit & be interviewed wearing the shirt. Sales of shirt will go up. If anyone should be arrested its the war criminal giving the speech. Remember when Chilabi was present in the special vistor box behind Laura a few years ago. Now there is someone who should have been arrested.

The Right will try to demonize her & make her into a major criminal, but all they will do is give her more attention for her to get the anti-war message out. The more they hate her the more effect she is having.

[upi402]

205. right on, and welcome!

:toast:

[The_Casual_Observer]

199. What stunt? What T-shirt?

There were WMD east, west, north, south of Baghdad too, as I'm sure you were convinced.

[samhsarah]

200. lol. good one.

and the insurgence is in its final throes.

[helderheid]

202. until you've walked a mile in her shoes, I don't give a fuck if you think

she doesn't speak for you.

[seabeyond]

203. shoot to kill.....ask questions later. the man at the airport

and so many on this board validate, justified, they were afraid what he might do. better dafe than sorry. not for that man. this is what this nation is..... shoot first.... and that is shoot first, to kill

[scarface2004]

206. cindy! cindy! cindy!

we love you! we need you! you're great! history will reward you!

[Name removed]

207. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

208. Whatever.

Do you know her? Have you ever taken the time to meet or talk with her. No? You're one more person who's all about talking smack w/o putting in the effort. Please, don't waste my time.

She's a great person and I respect the fact that she's doing something when many others (look in the mirror, you know who you are) are not.

Forbid your concept of the Democratic Party should be tarnished by someone such as Cindy.

OMG! I think I almost laughed myself to the point of passing out. :spray:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

246. Hello??

I'm still waiting for a reply? Where are you? :P

[buddysmellgood]

209. But she does speak for the TRUTH

[RapidCreek]

210. At least she is speaking....what the hell are you doing?

I don't care if she or anyone else wore a t-shirt proclaiming anything at all....we live in free country...one incidentally the State of the Union was being given for. One in which a womans freedom of speech was just violated in an ugly way. Says allot about the state of the Union....and you, doesn't it?

She speaks for me....some dude wearing a "Bush is Great" t-shirt is speaking for me in one regard....he might be a fucktard but he believes in freedom of speech.

If Bush had a brain in his head he would have stopped the cop and told him that violating a womans rights would not be tolerated. But he doesn't.....not really.

RC

[ruggerson]

217. Working to get congresspeople elected

who will pass legislation to bring the troops home.

I thought that was a fairly decent strategy, but, hey, to each his/her own.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

223. Who?

Talk to me, I'm all ears.

[ruggerson]

234. People such as

Paul Hackett, Francine Busby, Coleen Rowley and various groups which support a broad array of likeminded candidates.

And what are you doing?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

245. I'm an active anti war activist (see my previous post you ignored)

Beyond that I won't lie... I don't have an anti-war candidate within my state...but I'm honest about where I live and who I am, unlike some who want to hide behind pretend activism. Other than the time I've spent with Cindy (again, have you met her?) and the time I've actively spent spreading my views via my voice against this war, I guess I'm a nobody.


Face it...you don't know me, but I am very active in the anti-war movement. Not a pretender (like some who like to cast stones while living in a glass house).

[ruggerson]

252. Look bud

I work my butt off, as time allows, to get progressive Democrats elected, and I honestly don't need to prove my bona fides to you. But, you asked.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

259. You my dear are the one claiming props..

Not I. If you're gonna make the claim then prove it. I can. :hi:

This is my life, sad as that may be. And this is my future, it's not something most people want to share. I'm not playing a game with you nor anyone else. To be honest I fail to see how this is entertaining to anyone. If you want to talk the talk, fine. But don't get bent if I'm willing to take it beyond that and walk the walk.

Oh, I'm also a female, just like Cindy, one more thing she and I have in common.

[ruggerson]

263. Ok

buddette, then. :)

[RapidCreek]

228. Me to

I'm sort of tired of the statesmanlike approach though. The fucker I got elected just voted for Allito...that would be Senator Johnson. Guess he was being statesmanlike. I'll bet 3 people in the state of SD know this....allot more would If I wore a t shirt proclaiming the fact however.

Thing is.....that is a decent strategy as you suggest....but only decent. Obviously the woman has quite allot more affect than you...I've heard her message and I know who she is...and I know it because I turned on the TV, like every other person in this country has done. Who the heck are you what the hell is your message?

[ruggerson]

237. I'm glad you think she has a positive effect

let's hope you're correct.

[FreedomAngel82]

266. So you're against free speech eh?

You don't like Cindy going out and doing her thing because you give a damn about what assholes think? Gee, very democratic of you.

[ruggerson]

283. No, I give a damn about winning elections

I want DEMOCRATS elected. Her issue is ending the war. I support that wholeheartedly, but I also care about a whole host of other issues: health care, environmental concerns, fixing the education system, appointing judges who actually think there is a right to privacy in the constitution.

She doesn't care about whether Democrats get hurt in her crusade. She has every right to be concerned about HER issue, and I have every righr to be concerned about a whole slew of other things as well.

[leftstreet]

212. The corporate media won't LET anyone else speak out against war

There are tons of people so angry about Iraq they'd gladly speak out in their own voices with their own methods, but the corporate media won't let them. By making Ms Sheehan the "only" war protester in America the debate falls to 1) do you approve of what she did, or 2)do you disapprove of what she did.

They have us talking about Cindy so we won't talk about the war.

[yellowdogmi]

213. She speaks for me.

I was appalled the week * would not meet with her but went biking with Lance Armstrong. * is a chicken shit bastard for not facing this woman. God bless her for her courage to speak out when so many are silent.

[foreigncorrespondent]

214. That's ok...

..the DLC doesn't speak for me but I tolerate them. That is more than we can say you do for Cindy.

As Malloy said a short while ago on his show, no she doesn't speak for you, she speaks for her dead son.

[ruggerson]

222. That's great

I never said she didn't. I just said she didn't speak for me.

His comments are a red herring and have nothing to do with what I wrote in the OP.

If I'd said "Cindy doesn't speak for her son", then he'd have an argument. But those were not my words nor my sentiments.

I've never listened to him, but now that he has apparently twisted what I wrote, maybe I'll call in.

[FreedomAngel82]

270. She does NOT speak for you

She speaks for three items: Her SON, herself and the truth. I'm sure Cindy could give a damn about if she pleases you are not. The only thing she's after is the truth. Not you.

[foreigncorrespondent]

272. Maybe you should actually...

...read between the lines of what he is actually saying: i.e... At no time has Cindy ever stated she is speaking on behalf of ruggerson from DU.

You need to get a grip on reality!

[ruggerson]

288. No but that's the way the media plays it:

and already has. Tweety was on the air right after the speech giving the line about how "this hurts Dems". Others on CNN were saying the same thing.

I don't want to give them any ammunition towards demonizing Democrats any more than they've already done. I mean really, what is the deal? I can't write my thoughts, because this woman is some kind of annointed sacred cow? I mean, talk about getting a grip. This is almost like a mirror image of what the religious right does.

[Vanje]

215. Ruggerson Does Not Speak For Me.

Dammit!

[Name removed]

218. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

232. Winston was the protagonist, and a victim of the system

if you're going to compare yourself to a literary figure, it is usually better to pick the right one.

[file83]

267. I wasn't comparing myself to Winston - I was comparing the moderator here

to Winston Smith. I posted a totally benign comment and the moderator deleted it, hence my post about 1984 and the Ministry of Truth. But this one will probably get deleted as well, so I don't even know why I even bother with posting at this website anymore.

[LittleClarkie]

282. I knew who you were referring to. Winston was sort of a victim

I suspect your post wasn't as benign as you think it was. For one thing, if you want the mods to delete something you alert on the post, you don't announce it right in the middle of the thread. That will get you deleted.

[file83]

293. Yeah, but that comment you read was a response to them deleteing...

...a previous comment that was simply me saying that I thought ruggerson was an idiot for flamebaiting everyone - so I get deleted - whatever. Who cares.

[LittleClarkie]

295. Well there you have it. You called him an idiot. That's not benign.

That's insulting. And it will be deleted every time.

Read the rules. Seriously.

[earth mom]

219. Cindy speaks for me and MILLIONS more-make no mistake about that!

And since NO ONE else is doing jack sh*t about the criminals in office, we should do NOTHING BUT support someone like Cindy who has not only sacrificed her son for this horrific and illegal war, but has thrown her own safety on the line!

Seriously, do you even hear what you are saying?! It is attitudes and words such as yours that are dooming this country and it's people to the neocons in office!

Cindy deserves our respect and support and nothing less! :applause:

[radio4progressives]

220. oh waaaahhhhhhh - Cindy SPEAKS FOR ME IMPEACH THATBABY KILLING RAT BASTARD

NOW. So, get over it.

[Name removed]

221. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ruggerson]

227. So anything you disagree with is flamebait?

talk about fascism. unbelievable.

[RapidCreek]

233. Well you make an Anti-American statement and refuse to

back it up with anything resembling sense.....that is generally considered flame-bait, though I myself hate that term and would never offend anyone by removing their ignorant remark because I believe in freedom of speech, unlike you.

[ruggerson]

241. Where did I say anything anti American

or opposed to free speech?

Give me the exact text please.

[RapidCreek]

281. That's easy, good god read your post!

"But she does not speak for me. When she pulls publicity stunts, she is not representative of THIS Democrat, and I know that there are many others who feel similarly.", you said.

You accuse her of publicity stunts. Why is it a publicity STUNT? You state quite clearly that her zeal to express herself does not meet with your approval that she does not represent you. She demonstrates her American heritage more than any other person in attendance at the State of the Union because she is speaking out. That is what made America what it was once and is no more. What we have now is a dictatorship, the sooner you recognize that fact the more likely you are to succeed in fighting it. Perhaps you don't want to for some reason.

RC

[ruggerson]

296. Saying she does not speak for me is Un American?

I don't follow your logic in the least. I believe I wrote that she has every right to speak her mind and protest as she sees fit.

That's what Americans do.

But, if in the process, her strategy works to the detriment of the Democratic party and progressives in general, no, she does not speak for me.

Americans also are free to disagree with each other.

How you deduce that the OP is "un American" is a mystery.

[LittleClarkie]

243. That's no less annoying than when Bush Co. does it

If you do not support Bush, you are unAmerican.

If you do not support Cindy, you are unAmerican.

Nah, if he doesn't support Cindy, he disagrees with you. Dissent is allowed in America... for the moment... even if unpopular.

[RapidCreek]

290. No if you frown on freedom of speech you're Unamerican

I don't give a rats ass if he doesn't support Cindy. I'd defend a fucktard with a "Bush is Great" t-shirt with eqaul vigor if he was treated in the same fashion.

[LittleClarkie]

291. It is his own freedom of speech that he is exersizing by expressing his

opinion, however unpopular.

"America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating, at the top of his lungs, that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free, then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest." Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free."

[RapidCreek]

310. Indeed it is

and I'm free to call him Unamerican. I'm also free to elaborate on WHY I say so. He drew first blood calling a womans RIGHT to express herself a publicity stunt.....something that stinks as rationalization for what ensued as a result.

RC

[LittleClarkie]

312. Indeed, both of you are free to be as wrong or right

as you wanna be, as long as you keep it within DU rules, that is, keep it civil.

I'm more of an agent of free speech in the thread. I don't have to agree with the OP. In fact, I could violently disagree with the OP, and still uphold his right to express his opinion. And you yours.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I wait to hear what Cindy says happened. Because I suspect this one was inadvertent. She was just wearing her normal tshirt, and it offended.

To me, that would be far more poignant than a planned protest. Her, just being herself, with a president talking about freedom, unable to tolerate a tshirt that merely counts the dead. God forbid with this administration we should count the dead, or see a casket.

But then, I still think her most successful, and beautiful, and effective, protest was Camp Casey. A vacationing president and a greiving mom. I doubt she will duplicate that kind of power again. It was a moment in history. If she does nothing else, she will have done that.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

235. Defend who you are and what you stand for

You're the one picking and choosing who you answer. To the average person that looks as if you're scared.

See my previous reply.

[LittleClarkie]

238. Who he is? A DUer, one you disagree with.

And this thread would be twice as long if he responded to everything.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

248. Was I speaking to you?

No. Go play your games someplace else. :hi:

[LittleClarkie]

284. If you want to have a private conversation with him

go to PM. Otherwise, I'm not playing games, unless you consider standing up for the free speech of someone with an unpopular opinion to be a game.

"America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating, at the top of his lungs, that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free, then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest." Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free."

[Lone_Star_Dem]

294. Then don't use some pathetic argument such as the length of a thread

Don't waste a post complaining about the length the thread would grow to if he were to answer those speaking to him. You did not start the thread, he did. That makes the length not your business, right?

You considered that an argument on the point of the OP? Or even my reply to the OP...Don't' kid me, OK?

You had your chance at engaging me in relevant conversation and chose to play some lame internet game.

Sorry, I'm not interested.

[LittleClarkie]

299. In a 200 plus thread, you're jumping up and down because you

were not the lucky winner, reply-wise. Of course he's picking and choosing who to reply to. So do we all.

Sorry my posting style does not meet with your approval. I'm not enamored with yours either.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

302. I'm not the type to trash you as a poster

I don't play those games, my life is full and I don't waste time trashing people on the internet. OK?

I like intelligent conversation.

I'll not reply to you again, when ignore is working again you'll be gone from my sight once more. I'm sorry your life is the way it is.

[LittleClarkie]

304. You know nothing of my life

I, in turn, am sorry that you find it necessary to bully.

[ruggerson]

239. What previous reply?

and there are hundreds of replies here. I aint' gonna answer each one.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

250. Then don't bring your twisted concepts here...

Really, what did you expect?

[ruggerson]

256. Jeez, last I checked, I didn't have to kowtow to your dictates as

to what is or isn't politically allowable here.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

260. Then don't speak to me

Seriously, if you don't like what I'm about ignore me. I will always oppose pro-war butt kissing, accept it or not.

Trust me there will be zero tears shed on my end. :)

[ruggerson]

261. I don't believe I addressed you in the first place

but I have no aversion to doing so. Just telling you that you have no control over what I write or think.

Cindy Sheehan's goals are admirable and ones that apparently you and I share. But she has no concern if she hurts Democrats while pursuing her goal, because her goal is one thing: to end the war. To that end, she is single minded.

I wish to end the war. but I also wish for a whole host of other things, including a huge win for our side in '06 and '08. To my mind, THAT is the single most important thing for the future of our country. Iraq is part and parcel of that agenda.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

279. You addressed me when you posted to this board

Trust me, I'm a small price to pay for a DU membership. Hell, most folks like me.

That having been said, pick your battles. If you honestly think that somehow Cindy is what's wrong with the Democratic Party, well, I can't help you. I deal with people (granted they're Republicans, but they're still people) everyday who can't see the forest for the trees. If you choose to think as they do, I know I can't do a thing about that.

Repeat the Republicans talking points for them.

Disregard the death taking place in your name, if you feel it interferes with some political agenda.

I won't hate you.

I've seen the real hell that is war and I know it's not a political talking point. I don't give a damn about political parties. I don't want to see any more death.

To be honest, I don't want you to ever understand where I am coming from.

Peace.

Love your children, if you have them. Hug your spouse tonight and wake tomorrow knowing that those you love will be safe.

[LittleClarkie]

287. Ditto. So why did you ask if you were speaking to ME?

Hmmm?

It's sort of an open board, doncha know.

"America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating, at the top of his lungs, that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free, then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest." Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free."

[LittleClarkie]

229. What, an opposing viewpoint?

Is that the "garbage" to which you are referring?

So disagree already. But as long as he's civil about it, he has just as much right as you to say what he thinks, unpopular or no.

[Avalon Sparks]

225. She Sure as Hell Speaks for ME

She stole Little Chimpypants thunder tonight... whether intentionally or not.

She's been an outstanding thorn in the Dumbest Dictator's royal side.


I've supported her since I read these words she spoke last year:


Hard work is seeing your son's murder on CNN one Sunday evening while you're enjoying the last supper you'll ever truly enjoy again. Hard work is having three military officers come to your house a few hours later to confirm the aforementioned murder of your son, your first-born, your kind and gentle sweet baby. Hard work is burying your child 46 days before his 25th birthday. Hard work is holding your other three children as they lower the body of their big (brother) into the ground. Hard work is not jumping in the grave with him and having the earth cover you both," she said.

"We're watching you very carefully and we're going to do everything in our power to have you impeached for misleading the American people," she said, quoting a letter she sent to the White House. "Beating a political stake in your black heart will be the fulfillment of my life ... ," she said, as the audience of 200 people cheered.

Our country needs a million Cindy Sheehan's right now!

[TInCanCommunications]

230. "Our country needs a million Cindy Sheehan's right now!"

That's the problem.
We only have one.

We all sit here and jump down other people's throats if they distance themselves from Sheehan.

But we're not out there doing it ourselves, making her actions look normal instead of whacko.

[Avalon Sparks]

240. A lot of people went to support her in Crawford!

A lot of people go to protests.

I know I'm guilty though, I haven't really done anything but bitch,worry and try to inform people I know and by staying as informed as possible.

I'm pretty lazy though, and I have never been involved in any groups or activism. When I had more money than I do now I threw money at lots of causes, but not my time.

[Jersey Devil]

226. She never claimed to speak for anyone other than herself

and she has the absolute right to do that no matter who doesn't like it.

[babylonsister]

231. Cindy SPEAKS FOR ME. She got detained tonight? What and who

are fair? Why did that happen?

[recoveringrepublican]

242. Well she helps speak for me. nt

[Fovea]

249. That's ok

You don't speak for me, either.

[ruggerson]

257. kewl

I can live with that. :)

[Darranar]

254. Cindy Sheehan does speak for me. May she continue.

The warmongering criminal in office should not be coddled.

[norml]

255. I'm glad someone there attempted some sort of protest

and her protest, that of wearing a t-shirt, was very low key.

[mnhtnbb]

258. Bush lies, subverts the Constitution of the US

takes the country into an illegal war, but he's wearing a suit and tie so it's ok for him to stand up and tell us some more lies? The POS should be impeached and then stand trial for war crimes. Instead, Cindy Sheehan is arrested for daring to wear a t-shirt with the number of US soldiers killed in Iraq on it!

Good for Cindy. Too bad the Dems didn't all have tee-shirts!

[file83]

262. I like ruggerson. He is cool.

[Name removed]

265. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mr_Spock]

273. He's the nads.

for sure...

[Dr Fate]

264. Me neither-at least not on everything- but I love her anyway. n/t

n/t

[Mr_Spock]

269. Good for you. Now who's pulling a publicity stunt? How ironic.

You're overreacting. Big time.

[ruggerson]

274. If I'm overreacting why are there a number of threads

about how the media is already using this to defame Democrats?

[Mr_Spock]

275. Bah, it's a bunch of crap what they say.

I don't watch that crap anyway, who gives a fuck what a bunch of corporatists think anyway? All they care about are ratings. BFD.

[ruggerson]

277. Unfortunately what they say sways the mushy middle

which is where elections are won and lost.

[Mr_Spock]

280. Yeah, that justifies all this crap in this post huh??

C'mon, people aren't as stupid as you think - most Repukes I know won't even watch the stupid news because they know it's BS and they hate Bush too. Don't believe it just because you see it on TV. And don't assume people watch this crap and have no brains.

[ruggerson]

292. That's why Bush won and we have a Republican congress?

Because people are discerning?

[Mr_Spock]

298. It certainly had nothing to do with protesters like Cindy.

It has to do with a group of people who feel like their way of living is being pushed aside by a progressing nation. They want to go backwards or at least stop the forword momentum. It's called a political pendulum shift and it happens all the time. Many, if not most of the people I know - left, right or otherwise have figured out the act of this illiterate moron in the WH. No, for some reason you care what Freepers think. I don't care what a bunch of political oppositionalists think. They will ALWAYS be there to take the opposing viewpoint. Cindy may even find some sympathy in this "press" you are so concerned about tomorrow morning. Not that I care either way...

[ruggerson]

301. If the press conflates Cindy with Democrats

that plays right into the corporate media's hands when trying to demonize progressives. No one I know gives a rat's ass what Freepers think of anything, but I'm not discussing them, I'm discussing the corporate media, which will use ANYTHING that is laid in their lap to try and stop progressives from being elected. I get irritated when I see ammunition being handed to them. Gift wrapped.

[LittleClarkie]

303. Eh, but that's no reason to not act

because you're afraid of how the media or the RW will react. If there's nothing to react to, they'll just stitch something together out of nothing.

Besides, I'm not even sure she intended to protest. She'd been wearing the shirt all day. She hadn't even intended to go to the speech but decided to at the last minute. I'm thinking the media and the GOP did this thing on purpose.

That said, I also believe you have a right to your opinion, however unpopular it is, and no matter how misguided some folks might see it as being.

[ruggerson]

306. Well she's interested in making her point

which is understandable. But she doesn't really care if it hurts Democrats in general, as long as it makes an anti war statement. Again, understandable, that's her mission.

And when I wrote the OP, it was in response to a LBN OP which stated that according to CNN she had unfurled a banner. Maybe the whole t-shirt thing was entirely innocuous. I suppose we will find out.

[LittleClarkie]

314. Here you go. It's just as I suspected

They overreacted to her normal tshirt. They never even gave her a chance to cover. They freaked.

She just posted this at DailyKos.

"My ticket was in the 5th gallery, front row, fourth seat in. The person who in a few minutes was to arrest me, helped me to my seat.
I had just sat down and I was warm from climbing 3 flights of stairs back up from the bathroom so I unzipped my jacket. I turned to the right to take my left arm out, when the same officer saw my shirt and yelled; "Protester." He then ran over to me, hauled me out of my seat and roughly (with my hands behind my back) shoved me up the stairs. I said something like "I'm going, do you have to be so rough?" By the way, his name is Mike Weight.

The officer ran with me to the elevators yelling at everyone to move out of the way. When we got to the elevators, he cuffed me and took me outside to await a squad car. On the way out, someone behind me said, "That's Cindy Sheehan." At which point the officer who arrested me said: "Take these steps slowly." I said, "You didn't care about being careful when you were dragging me up the other steps." He said, "That's because you were protesting."  Wow, I get hauled out of the People's House because I was, "Protesting."
I was never told that I couldn't wear that shirt into the Congress. I was never asked to take it off or zip my jacket back up. If I had been asked to do any of those things...I would have, and written about the suppression of my freedom of speech later. I was immediately, and roughly (I have the bruises and muscle spasms to prove it) hauled off and arrested for "unlawful conduct."

[Mr_Spock]

315. Yep, read that

I have a bit more sympathy for her - even though I'm not sure why the O/P is so paranoid about an individual being painted as the typical Democrat. If Dems allow that to happen, DON'T BLAME CINDY!!

[Solon]

289. So what does that have to do with Mrs. Sheehan?

Its a damned if you do and damned if you don't moment anyways. A person labeled a "Leftwinger" by the M$M will get something as simple as a simple greeting misconstrued to be something nefarious, so why give a shit what they say.

[GirlinContempt]

271. rofl

this is hilarious

[babylonsister]

278. What did she do wrong? Wear a t-shirt? She speaks for me if

she didn't cross a line, and from pics I've seen, I am not persuaded that she did.
And BTW, FUCK the corporate media! They are not bi-partisan at all.

[me b zola]

285. Cindy & Malloy speak for me

I am sick of post such as yours that are made for no good reason other than to spark controversy. It smells of swift boat.

[LittleClarkie]

286. Andrew Shepherd speaks for me

"America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating, at the top of his lungs, that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free, then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest." Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free."

[elshiva]

300. She speaks for me. Thank God she is protesting.

[Desertrose]

307. Dude, get over yourself. She speaks for me....

and I am grateful she has the courage to stand up & do it.

and FWIW, you sure as hell don't speak for me.

[Nutmegger]

308. For gods sake, this is negative

Sometimes, when the media is against you; when everything is so divided, people have to come up with things of their own.

"Oh well it was improper to wear that shirt to the SOTU" - total BS. Yeah, if Cindy was some bum of off the street and got invited, yeah, a tee-shirt would be inappropriate. But this is a woman who camped outside of Bush's ranch and didn't get one word out of this bastard. This is a women who poses the simple question: "What's the noble cause?" Simple SOTU etiquette ceases to exists when regular protests are ignored by the media and Bush Inc.

Cindy speaks for me and has started a vibrant anti-war movement. I have no sympathy for Bush Inc if the camera focused on Cindy and EVERYBODY seen to the dead.

Frankly, I wish more people would take an interest. I check out the totals daily.

[Name removed]

311. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BushOut06]

317. This entire thread is disgraceful

To have fellow DUers attacking each other so viciously when we should be united after the SOTU is simply disgraceful. The freepers that frequent this board must be laughing their asses off.

[sendero]

322. Oh wow..

... I'm really worried if a freeper gets a laugh! That's easy for them, all they need do is strip and stand in front of a mirror.

If anyone is going to come here and post something that is both idiotic and inflammatory, they should expect to get flamed.

I'm not interested in being "united" with idiots, so forgive me if I tell you that you have even less of a point than the OP.

[BushOut06]

327. Oh wow indeed

I merely wanted to comment on the lack of civility on both sides - I wasn't pointing a finger at the ones flaming this guy, his comments have obviously been outrageous, and many of my other posts have borne this out. So what happens? I get attacked myself! This is exactly what I was talking about!

[sendero]

337. Civility..

.... begets civility. I'm no longer interested in being civil to Republicans, nor anyone here who would smear someone like Ms. Sheehan.

Fact is, there is nothing wrong with thinking that Ms. Sheehan made a mistake. There is nothing wrong with relating that opinion. There is something wrong with "she doesn't speak for me" blah, blah blah, which is uncalled for IMHO. Duh.

I did not intend to attack you personally, although I suppose a fair reading my post would consider it such. Please accept my apology.

[BushOut06]

341. Apology accepted

And my rant is aimed primarily towards those who come on this board with the intention of "disrupting" things. I understand that the OP may very well have strong feelings about Cindy Sheehan. But to come out the way he does is simply uncalled for, and is basically an open invitation to flame away.

[ima_sinnic]

318. so she doesn't speak for you, isn't that special?

why the hell should I or any of us CARE who speaks for YOU? are you somebody important or something? did you get a message from cindy that she was going to make a statement for YOU?
cindy never claimed to be speaking for anyone but herself.
we shall be watching to see your own personal statement/expression against the fascist regime of psychopathic liars. that is, if you can cough one up. somehow I get the feeling you don't have much to say.
anyone who pulls the "respect" card in reference to the imperial fraud now occupying the White House is a little suspect, imo.

[DrunkenMaster]

319. good for you

You demonstrate the true meaning of parrhesia. Really.

[question everything]

321. Thank you! She really needs help

As I have said on many thread here recently, the poor woman is searching for something. Yes, it started sincerely at Crawford. Was a spontaneous move. But after that - being arrested in D.C., talking about the Israeli-Palestinian situation and showing her ignorance, trying to run against Dianne Fienstien - of all people - and now this one.

It is not just one act. These are activities of a sad woman who lost her son and her marriage and is now looking to redefine herself. That's OK. Most of us going through similar stages at one point in our lives. But we do not expect the whole world to be our stage and, worse, do not expect others to pay for this

If you love Sheehan, try to get her professional help. Praising her here is getting to be sheer exploitation. This is something that we, Democrats, do not do.

[coalition_unwilling]

325. We all need help. Have you tried to get her help?

Isn't the fact that 2245 American soldiers have died in Iraq part of the State of the Union? Or are we no longer a Union?

She wouldn't have to wear that T-shirt if the corporate-whore media would keep the U.S. casualty figures at the front of the news cycle each day. They've actually under-reported the true number(s) of wounded by a factor of 2-3, according to John McLaughlin. He reported number of U.S. wounded at 50,000+, but MSM continues to report 16,500+.

And then there are the Iraqi casualties, civilian and military. Bush said 30,000 (a figure IraqBodyCount.net seems to roughly support). However, many reputable sources (such as British medical journal The Lancet and Johns Hopkins U.) have reported civilian casualty figures exceeding 100,000 over a year ago. (Some reports have put civilian casualty total now at 150,000+, although I can't remember precise sourcing for that figure.)

[Pacifist Patriot]

343. Armchair psychiatry or you've had occasion to meet with her?

[Katherine Brengle]

326. Question: Did Cindy Sheehan ever claim that she speaks for every Democrat

or every antiwar activist, or anything of the sort?

She speaks for herself, for what she believes in. She is a woman who paid the sacrifice of her son's life for a war she doesn't believe is right, for a war that has not yet been explained to the American people or to the world.

She has taken her grief and used it to do something productive. She has brought much-needed publicity to the antiwar movement, not just to herself.

Working within the "wants publicity" frame, aren't all of us who make any public declaration of our views guilty as charged?

Am I desperate for publicity when I use the fact that my husband is in Iraq to hook up with antiwar groups like Military Families Speak Out and gain access to information and interviews I might not otherwise be privy to??? No, you use the leverage you have available and you do the best work you can with it.

If people don't like Cindy Sheehan, they are free to ignore her--this is America.

[cooolandrew]

328. Very confused

Cindy is seen as an american hero for the peace cause worldwide, I am more than proud to support Sheehan.

[The Stranger]

329. Find another web site.

You are in an extreme minority here, both ideologically and morally.

[laruemtt]

330. this is truly unbelievable!

how can anyone begrudge her the right to wear whatever the hell she wants, especially after what she's been through? i guess you've also lost a son in iraq. i feel nauseous just reading that anyone could be so hateful toward cindy, who has done NOTHING WRONG!!!! pray you never have to walk in her shoes, and while you're at it, pray for some compassion!

[jonnyblitz]

333. to some , ALL that matters is "how democrats look"

pretty fucking pathetic, eh?

[laruemtt]

335. VERY pathetic. isn't that the old

'image is everything' mantra of the reich? chilled me when i first heard it and astonishes me that there are "dems" who actually embrace it now.

[iconoclastNYC]

331. Joe Liberman doesn't speak for me

The 12 DINOS that voted for cloture don't speak for me.

There are so many more worthy targets. People with real power who undermine our values and sell out the party.

BTW if you feel this way right a letter to the editor. The MSM turns its' nose up at sites like DU.

[Kralizec]

332. Good.

Do the Democrats speak for you?

Who speaks for you?

[Bridget Burke]

334. OK.

You speak for yourself. Who's listening?

[Pacifist Patriot]

336. Nobody speaks for me...

I just happen to agree with most of what she has said.

And I think the use of "publicity stunt" as a pejorative is as meaningful as using "liberal" as a pejorative. People who want to be heard rely on publicity. She wouldn't be any damned good as an activist if she didn't have any publicity.

[Snivi Yllom]

338. you are brave for posting that

so I don't have to remind you that going against the group think here can be intimidating at times.

but it's too late, the MSM is all over this

[Pacifist Patriot]

344. Is there an assumption in there that anyone who agrees with

Cindy's position and appreciates her providing us with an anti-war voice is unable to think and draw conclusions for themselves?

I do not consider last night's incident to be a publicity stunt? Does that mean I am incapable of independent thought?

Why must "groupthink" be trotted out any time there is an obvious consensus of opinion?

[AndyA]

339. I don't think she's speaking for anyone but herself

I don't like everything Cindy Sheehan does, and I can't begin to understand how she must feel at losing her son. Parents aren't supposed to bury their children. I just can't imagine the pain she must have felt, and the hurt when she discovered America was duped into going into Iraq by our leaders.

Cindy Sheehan is trying to fix the problem that she perceives was responsible for the death of her son. Perhaps she isn't going about it in the manner most people would recommend, but she is trying to do SOMETHING.

She's not a professional, she's a grieving mother who wants to be at peace with the death of her son. I think if she really wanted to cause a big stink last night, she would have done something during the speech, not before.

[bluestateguy]

345. Thanks for your imput Mr. Shrum

nt

[davidinalameda]

346. locking

this thread is out of hand