RE ISG: Who's going to implement all this? It's NOT Condi's thing!

[napi21]

Candy Crowley was just on CNN. She said info coming out of the WH is that people are asking Who"s going to implement all this? Several suggested the Secretary of State. Comments were then made that first of all she's too busy with other things, PLUS the ME is NOT HER THING. SHE'S an expert in Russian things!

Since when does a Secretary of State have the right or the ability to pick and choose what problems she/he will deal with?????

[Jacobin]

1. nobody wants to touch IraqNam

Whoever gets involved is going to have the stink of that disaster following them around.....of course, Condi already has the stink of Iraqnam on her, but I suppose she wants to pretend she had nothing to do with it

[MADem]

2. When she's screwing the boss, maybe??

:shrug:

[Target_For_Exterm]

3. Since her name is Condi?

Or maybe it's just the general overall unwillingness of Republicans to work more than 2 days a week to preserve their "family time."

[H2O Man]

4. Actually Rice

is the person most responsible for getting Bush to be relatively okay with the ISG, before Cheney and Rumsfeld could get it rejected out of hand.

The question about Rice isn't one of would she want to or not, nor one of her deciding what tasks she wants to do. It is one of ability. There is a serious concern that no one in the administration has the ability to do what the ISG is advocating. Thus, there are going to be serious efforts to get a person/persons appointed to represent the US. That could, sadly, be James Baker III.

[PRETZEL]

5. very true,

Baker would end up being the "best" alternative. And for as bad as it may be I may not be as totally upset by this. We know for sure the history of James Baker, but, at least as far as I can tell, he also seems to be able to weild the most influence with most of the major players in the region. His history with the Saudi's is well documented, but it is a known history for the most part. We also know the history of many of the Bush Sr. associates especially as it relates to the region. They have a great deal of influence. For as distasteful as it is, this may just very well be what is needed at this particular time.

Maybe I'm just being short sighted or naive but if it takes the mafia to stop the killing........

[H2O Man]

6. The one positive

could be his ability to counter VP Cheney's' ties with the Saudi group looking to "reduce" the capabilities of Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi army.

[napi21]

7. Baker is also perhaps the ONLY diplomat associated with this admin!

I can't think of anyone else who has any diplomatic abilities at all!

The problem I see with Baker is that he really is quite old. Does he have the stamina or physical ability to be able to do all this? Meeting with 9 others for a few hours every day forseveral months is a lot different than flying around the world and dealing with people who hate each other.

[H2O Man]

8. Interesting points.

I think that they need a group effort. I think that we can see many US citizens at the grass roots level, from simply reading DU, do not believe that this ISG represents them. It seems unlikely that the people in and around Iraq are going to be invested in the solutions being put forth by George W. Bush's father's friends.

It is probably not realistic to thinbk Baker will not be the head of the effort. Sometimes when people get old, they want to try to make up for some of the shit they've done in life. Maybe he feels some responsibility for his role in putting an unelected fool in office. If that is true, he will reach out to some of the resources who would be far more likely to get the attention of the more radical forces in the Middle East.

[PRETZEL]

9. I don't know if this would be Baker's

"Coming to Jesus" issue or not. Maybe there is a part of him that does feel some regret over his roles in Florida or not. I doubt it.

I think where I may disagree is in the views of the region to Baker's plans. The Saudi's have an extememly strong voice in OPEC (or at least in my opinion). It's my guess that there is alot of pressure on OPEC nations for stability in the region and in getting more Iraqi oil on the market quicker. I think it might possibly be the glue that will hold any truce together. That being said it will take some concessions by both the Shia and Kurds to both include and share with the Sunni's of the riches that would come with having more Iraqi oil on the open market. The question then becomes (or at least in my mind) is whether or not the Sunni's are willing to cede some political power in exchange for economic gain.

[underpants]

27. Rice is as relevant as a typewriter repairman

She has no purpose or at least she has never exhibited any actual ability to do anything. Her role is to be the first to hit the Sunday talk shows with their new catch phrase so they can test it out on focus groups. Other than that she is black a woman and a Republican oh and a legacy (her father was the black opposition to MLK and the Civil Rights movement).

Her status as a "prodigy" on piano came under suspicion recently after she actually played the piano in public at Kuala Lampur.

She WAS a championship ice skater in her youth-the black female iceskating circuit of the early 60's... ...........in Alabama.

[TahitiNut]

10. I wonder if the time is ripe to invite Colin Powell back in.

If there were a modicum of sanity in the Cheney/Bush administration, that'd be a wise choice - "Special Envoy" or some grander title. At the same time, a vestigial amount of common sense on Powell's part would require he refuse.

[H2O Man]

12. He chumped himself.

The UN thing was a fall from grace that he would be unlikely to recover from in time to help with this. As much as I dislike him, there was a time when he could have done a lot of good in the Middle East. But not any more. Same with Dick Armitage.

[TahitiNut]

18. You're probably right ... but Condi is even more disabled, imho.

They just don't have a very deep bench when it comes to diplomacy ... unless it's the 'diplomacy' of the "carpet of gold or carpet of bombs" variety.

I just cant see Iran or Syria taking Condi seriously. Instead, the cultural biases combined with the fact that she's singularly incapable of anything more sophisticated than rhetoric-ridden "my way or the highway" heavy-handedness seems to indicate that the ISG recommendations are still-born. I just can't see this cabal finding the needed midwife for it.

[H2O Man]

20. Exactly.

"Even those who back the Baker plan worry about whether there is anyone inside the Administration who can carry it out. There is widespread doubt that the Bush team is emotionally or ideologically able to execute a plan that is so at odds with its collective instincts and that many of its supporters might resist. Of particular concern to members of the study group is the state of the U.S. State Department. Although Rice has restored some of the department's lost influence since replacing Colin Powell, she is currently working without a deputy, and is having trouble filling that post. Her top lawyer, Phillip Zelikow, is leaving soon, and there is a wide variety of people who wonder whether she -- or anyone else -- could amass the clout to take on both the Middle East and Iraq security talks in the time that is left to this Administration. That's one reason there are growing calls for a special envoy to the region who can hold all the reins in one hand."
-- TIME; 12-11-06; Can Bush Find an Exit?; Michael Duffy; page 48

[PRETZEL]

21. question,

Taking both your and Tahitinut's premise (and April Glasbee comes straight to mind) would the positions of both Syria and Iran be less stringent if they knew that Rice was merely the "face" and that the negotiations (which more than likely would be backed by Saudia Arabia)would be done by someone of Baker or Scrowcroft's stature?

[H2O Man]

24. Yes.

I think that it has to be moved away from the administration. And one major reason is that Rice is not able to deal with either Syria or Iran. It's not realistic. Also, she has not met the expectations of her friends from the Bush1 group. That was expressed rather clearly in the new Woodward book: "Even the president's father had confided that he was unhappy with Rice. 'Condi is a disappointment, isn't she?' the former president had offered, adding, 'She's not up to the job'." (page 420) When Bush1 expressed concern that he was quoted saying this, Woodward attributed the quote to Scowcroft.

I also would note that last night on MSNBC, "experts" were saying that the Bush1 fellows held George W. in contempt. No one more so than Brent, I believe. One of the reasons that the ISG moved to replace Rumsfeld with Gates is because they wanted someone who was stronger than Condi on the inside, to counter the influence of the Office of the Vice President. Look for Gates to pressure Bush to appoint an envoy.

[PRETZEL]

28. I guess I better stay awake as I finish the book,

I'm on pg 430 something and didn't remember that.

[TahitiNut]

25. I haven't read that, but it's interestingly parallel to my thoughts.

I'm guessing that King Hussein of Jordan will be playing a major role in any attempt to stabilize the situation. He may become one of the minor "winners" in all this - gaining some more regional influence.

It's fascinating to me that among the resources that this administration has nullified is the United Nations. This regime is going to get its way in that respect - the increasing marginalization of the UN except when they can (with the grossest of hypocrisies) claim that violations of UN Resolutions are some specious casus belli. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face - the corrupt global predators running this cabal engage in "scorched earth" even in advancing and then place us ALL in a position where we can't retreat/withdraw from our evil follies.

It's no wonder Bolton resigned. People of his ilk NEVER clean up their own messes.

[H2O Man]

29. Good point.

The neoconservatives had to dismiss the UN in order to justify the invasion. Funny how things work out. It is sad to remember how after 9/11, the world was so supportive of this country. The Bush/Cheneyites have done so much damage to the country.

[PRETZEL]

11. Not knowing who said this I'd have to bet that it would be Rice,

but with a great deal of hand holding by Baker. My initial take was that these comments are coming from the Cheney camp who now appears to be struggling for influence. Sadly, Junior's in the middle and doens't know which way to go. I wouldn't be suprised to see by year's end (and the new Congressional makeup) that we'll see the WH making statements that Condi Rice will take the lead in this. This will be their face saving gesture and could also greatly benefit her is she decides to take a shot for the Republican nomination in 2008.

Also, and for what it's worth, the Bush Sr. people seem to have alot of faith in Condi Rice. I believe she was a protege of Baker in Sr.'s admin and for some odd reason still seems to have it.

[H2O Man]

14. She's a protege

of Brent Scowcroft. And that is a very close tie to Baker.

[PRETZEL]

15. thanks

I was sure I had read that she was associated to one of them. Bringing in Scrowcroft may not be such a bad idea either. Same face, different name though.

[H2O Man]

16. At least he

has been a vocal critic of the Bush2 administration in general; VP Cheney in particular; and has a documented history of trying to get Condi to recognize the value of Joseph Wilson's efforts from the beginning.

[PRETZEL]

19. sounds like he could be a good compromise

to lead the implementation. That would be assuming that Junior does indeed decide to abandon the current plan.

[sallyseven]

17. She has ruled out a run for president.

She and bush are going to have a wonderful honeymoon and live happily ever after. Then she is going to wake up screaming.

[Solly Mack]

13. There was an article a while back that Rice was involved already

....it was in LBN a month or so ago.

Here it is:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2620524

[Lone_Star_Dem]

22. Yes, she's had a hand in persuading bush on this issue

However, she's no diplomat and it would appear she knows that limitation. Truth be told, I see her as realizing she's tethered to the mast of a sinking ship and desperate for someone to save her political future.

[Solly Mack]

23. I credit her with being smart enough to know she's sinking with the ship

as well...


Agreed. She's no diplomat...

[NewJeffCT]

26. Well, Bush did name Rice his "unsticker" a few years back

Said that Iraq was a sticky situation and that Condi was his "unsticker"

So, it should be her job - isn't that what secretaries of state are supposed to do?

[H2O Man]

30. In theory.

Sadly, she could not do it, even if she really wanted to.