So, what happens if we actually train the Iraqi army?

[BeyondThePale]

The experts keep suggesting that training the Iraqi forces will bring stability to the country and secure the government. Maybe it is just me, but this seems ridiculous. I see at least two (not mutually exclusive) disastrous outcomes: 1) the trained and armed forces become the agents of ethnic cleansing and/or civil war, and 2) once again we wind up fighting a force that we trained and armed. This is yet more madness.

[still_one]

1. what army are you talking about?

there is a civil war going on in Iraq right now

The Sunni and Shia will compromise on this

[BeyondThePale]

14. ok, the individuals to whom we are giving weapons and training

[Old and In the Way]

2. It is rather counter-intuitive, isn't it?

I'll bet when they were busy dividing up the oil fields before the invasion and dreaming about all the money that they'd make, no one in the Executive Echo chamber thought about about something like the fact the Iraqi's might actually resist an occupation.

[ANHG]

3. Opition three - maybe the Iraqi force will provide enough security

to support democrcacy.

[Richard Steele]

4. Bwahahahaaaaa!!!!!!!

Good one!

[ANHG]

5. Not Possible?

[Ron Green]

6. Not likely.

[ANHG]

9. Agreed! But possible!

[BeyondThePale]

13. It just doesn't seem possible to me...

The army will be composed of Sunni, Shia, and Kurds. They will likely be battling with Sunni or Shia or Kurdish militia. The question then is where will their loyalties lie?

[GreenZoneLT]

7. "Training" vs. culture

That's actually a very good question. The major emphasis right now, even before the ISG report, is increasing the trainers embedded with Iraqi troops. The hope is that we can indoctrinate the new Iraqi Army with professionalism and national patriotism that overcomes their tribal and sectarian loyalties.

Of course, as Hillary noted, hope is not a plan. I haven't seen anything detailed enough about the training to make me think they'll be able to create an army that is able to step in the middle of sectarian fighting without taking sides. Oh, well, might as well be optimistic; assuming the worst won't help.

The police -- fugeddaboudit. As Gen. McCaffrey said recently, they are a disaster. The Iraqi Army's probably going to wind up fighting THEM.

There's no danger of us having to fight the new Iraqi army as a body. One, they're barely armed; they have rifles and machine guns and that's about it. The major worry I have is that after we leave, the Iraqi army will splinter along sectarian lines, and the old Baathist professional army members will shift over to the Sunni insurgency. The Shiites have the numbers and the arms from Iran, but the Sunnis have the best fighters, including nearly all of the Baathist officer corps.

The worst, and quite likely scenario is U.S. withdrawal followed by a Balkan-style meltdown, with Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia all picking a team to arm, and Turkey muscling in on Iraqi Kurdistan. Thanks, neocons! Way to transform the Middle East!

[Botany]

8. After all this time there is 0 zero zip nada less than 1 .....

.... Battalions (600 - 800 men) that can fight on their own in Iraq.
A large % of troops we train wind up shooting @ us or other Iraqis.


We have about 175 Battalions in Country right now.

[justinaforjustice]

11. We Are Training Those Who Will Shoot Us

All that the "training" of the police and the military in Iraq has accomplished is improving the skills of those who are attacking, not only our soldiers, but each other. It is quite absurd. Bin Laden must be in danger of dying from laughter. Not only has Bush been his best troop recruiter, but he's also using US taxpayer's money to train the Al Qaeda fighters, as well as all the other fighters in Iraq.

[twilight_sailing]

10. The Iraqi Army has no weapons.

They are not a real Army at all.

Imagine the Iraqi Army trying to defend Iraq from foreign invasion. They have no artillery. They have only a few cargo planes; no bombers, no fighters, no attack helicopters, no C-130 gunships. They have no armor; no tanks, no armored personnel carriers.

What would they defend their country with?

Their only mission is to shore up the puppet government and they can do that with men and rifles only.

[malaise]

12. Of course it's ridiculous

The Iraqis want the occupiers out of their land.

[NNN0LHI]

15. We have been "training" the Iraq army for almost 4 years now n/t