Requim for a Lightweight

[H2O Man]

It is likely that yesterday will be remembered as a turning point in the American course in Iraq. What is unclear at this point is what direction our country is preparing to go in. It seemed evident when the public went to the polls in November that the vast majority of Americans reject the Bush-Cheney "vision" for Iraq, and it is safe to say most of us had hoped that the Baker-Hamilton group would put partisan interests on the hold, and advocate for the national good. Did they? It may be too early to say for sure.

One of the difficulties they face was summed up perfectly by President Bush’s line: "I urge the members of Congress to take this report seriously." No wonder his father broke down when talking about the measure of a person being their ability to deal with defeat. As one of my republican friends e-mailed me yesterday, "10 more servicemen dead today …. So 1 arrogant baby won’t have to admit he’s wrong."

I saw David Gergen on CNN last night. He noted that Bush has been in a bubble, isolated from reality, for three years now. He said that a growing problem is that his administration is inhabiting that same bubble. I thought of Tony Snow, a man who is so invested in that bubble that he has no more contact with reality than the followers of Jim Jones did in their final hours.

George W. Bush is not stable enough to be trusted to fetch a glass of water, much less run the country. He rants about "victory," though he has no concept of what that means. His measure of "victory" is found in the pre-sorted crowds of republican sheep who cheer him on. If he were given the opportunity to prance about in the uniform he has disgraced, in front of the troops he has betrayed, on that same aircraft carrier, George W. Bush would be convinced it was proof of "victory."

Gergen and others are saying that out of respect for the investment our nation has made, and the horrors that we created, we should respect the Baker group’s belief that we should consider giving it one last shot. That may be. It is worth our sincere consideration. But we need to be frank in discussing what that means, because it clearly can mean different things to different people.

The administration has been quietly proposing a "surge" aimed at confronting the Mahdi army of Muqtada al-Sadr. It is believed that this militia, which is 60,000 strong, is the second strongest military force in Iraq. When VP Cheney was beckoned to Saudi Arabia on November 25, it was to hear their concerns on the threat Iranian-backed Shi’ites posed to the Sunnis. This was further detailed in Nawaf Obaid’s op-ed in the Washinton Post last week.

President Bush had planned to push this issue in his meeting with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. But al-Maliki depends on al-Sadr’s support, and the threat of having that support withdrawn was the reason al-Maliki snubbed Bush. The anticipated lack of cooperation on the prime minister’s part was why the Hadley memo was leaked to the New York Times.

The U.S. military would defeat the Mahdi army in a "surge." But that is not the issue. What the price would be is. At this point, most Americans are not interested in having the Saudi "royal family" define US policy. In fact, the public is growing tired of "royal families," foreign or domestic. The November elections were a clear call for a national policy that represents our democratic principles.

I had read some of the reports and positions of the ISG from June on, before reading their final report. I urge people to take the time to carefully examine it. There is a great deal of important information contained in it. And there is evidence that many of the group’s members had diverse and sometimes conflicting opinions.

I’m a bit less impressed by the presentation yesterday. I felt that it was ½ Warren Commission, telling the public that President Bush was the "lone nut" that got us into the war, but that he is really a "good nut," and that we must ignore the systematic criminal activities of the PNAC/necroconservatives that brought our nation to war. And I thought that the other ½ was an updated version of "The Homecoming," where the Walton family deals with a family crisis by the grace of Grandpa Baker and Grandma O’Connor’s wisdom. I half expected Jim Baker to appear wearing bib overalls.

As Tom Friedman – hardly a progressive thinker – stated on the MSNBC Imus mourning show today, we need to end the US occupation of Iraq. It is one of the major causes of the violence. And we are training the "insurgents." Let’s not give any respectful attention to Tony Snow’s mantra that we need to train the Iraqis. They obviously know how to fight. We should quit sacrificing our soldiers to the president’s delusion and Dick Cheney’s lust for oil.

Friedman said that he imagines Bush curling up into a fetal position, under his bed, after being confronted by reality. Imus compared him to LBJ in his unstable phase at the end of his presidency. That reminded me of Gergen last night, saying that if there had been this type of commission in 1967, tens of thousands of American youth would not have had to die for nothing in Vietnam. I wish that the ISG’s report was enough to end the insanity of the war in Iraq. But, alas, it is not. Ten more servicemen died yesterday, because this president and vice president will not admit they are wrong.

How many more people – American and Iraqi – have to die because of Bush and Cheney’s "mistakes"? It seems clear to me that the IRG report can only be meaningful if we pressure Congress to impeach Bush and Cheney.

[ms liberty]

1. K&R, an excellent essay, as usual. And a question....

It's just a bit off the point, but it's been nagging at me for a while now in the off-moments. My memory is that al-Sadr was not the head of a militia/insurgency/anti-occupation group at the beginning of this disaster. I seem to remember him as being the publisher of a newspaper, and a more or less peaceful dissenter until we shut down his newspaper for criticizing us and the occupation.

Am I right about that, or is my memory of the situation distorted?

[H2O Man]

4. I think you remember

correctly. I think his father had been a religious leader, and that the father's death put the son in a position opposed to Saddam. He was certainly a powerful force in the traditional Islamic society. I'm not as sure about the "peaceful" part .... perhaps patient is more accurate.

It seems one reason that the goal to bring "democracy" to Iraq is being removed from the table is because of the power that brings to al-Sadr, both directly and indirectly. And that brings more power to Iran .... and that is of concern to some who would prefer to have the Persian Gulf be more of a Saudi Arabian Gulf.

[acmavm]

5. He was always a voice in Iraq because of his father. His

father was murdered by Saddam (I believe, but he is considered a 'martyr) and so the son has that legacy to draw upon.

Yes indeedy, he did publish a newspaper. And Jerry Bremer & the boys, in all their glorious ignorance, had the troops go in and destroy everything. And that was when and where Moq's fame and glory got a major boost. He became al Sistani's rival for power in the Shi'ite community. As thing drug on and as things got worse, al Sadr's militancy and militia made him the man to go to and as Sistani is just an has-been now.

[peekaloo]

2. The last line in your post seems to be the bottom line.

End the occupation at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. before any true progress can be made.

:kick:

[H2O Man]

9. Are you watching

Bush on tv now? He is so detached from reality, that he must make rational republicans nervous. The progressive democrats must work to impeach him.

[libodem]

49. Bush seems full on delusional right now

So many lies and so much disinformation. The violence is a 1,000 times worse than reported and the liberal media won't report all the good things happening over there. His mind must be breaking.

[eridani]

50. I think we should push the Repubs in that direction

That's how we got rid of Nixon, no? And Nixon actually had some positive points.

[bryant69]

3. If we can impeach Bush and Cheney

wouldn't we go for something better than the IWR? I mean it certainly contains a lot of good points, but it's kind of unwieldy and seems to have been crafted, in part, to avoid embarrasing the president too much.

Good essay though.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Annces]

6. I got the impression of despondency from the people of Iraq Study Group

As if they don't expect their recommendations will be followed. That was true, what you said about Baker and his grandfather act.

[H2O Man]

8. TIME 12-11-06:

"Even those who back the Baker plan worry about whether there is anyone inside the administration who can carry it out. There is widespread doubt that the Bush team is emotionally or ideologically able to execute a plan that is so at odds with its collective instincts and that many of its supporters might resist."
-- Can Bush Find an Exit?; Michael Duffy; page 48.

[RedEarth]

7. Excellent post.........KR

[immoderate]

10. Good analysis...

And a good read. Thanks.

--IMM

[Jcrowley]

11. Listen/Watch

http://www.democracynow.org/streampage.pl

Today's program.

[H2O Man]

12. Bush is on tv now ....

are you watching him? He is fully detached from reality.

[Jcrowley]

15. No TV

Gave it up 15 years ago.

[H2O Man]

16. Good choice.

It isn't a pretty thing today.

[Joanne98]

13. The Walton's.. It's all just a made for TV movie anymore....

We have destabilized the entire region and it can't be stopped. The toothpaste is out of the bottle. I'm sure they are very concerned, especially about the possible overthrown of the "Royals" in the region, but it would probably be for the better. I say, bring the troops home and see what happens. They can overthrow their "Royals" and we can overthrow OURS! It will be a better world in the long run.

Did anyone happen to see the House vote to condem France for naming a street after Mumia yesterday? It's pretty bad when our out-of-control elites start to supervise "street naming" in other countries. They need to be horsewhipped.

[H2O Man]

14. Friedman said

that the violence might surge for a brief time when we leave, but would likely decrease in a short time. We are the cause of a huge amount of the current instability. And speaking of instability, George W. is putting on a fire-works display of it at this press conference.

[Joanne98]

20. I usually never agree with Friedman but I think he's right....

It only makes sense that the fighting will stop after they all realize that they are just soiling their own nest. If we leave they will get a sense of ownership back. Maybe Bush should read some of his old "Ownership Society" speeches. :)

[Me.]

17. A Tragic Benchmark

will be when the service people who have died for this vainglorious cause reaches 3000. And sadly, at the rate things are going they will. I wonder what the American reaction will be to that?

My impression of Baker yesterday was of someone disgruntled, so my assumption was that the meeting with junior didn't go as well as hope. And here he is today giving the same old terra speech. Clearly certifiable. The only good thing that can come of all this is that as junior goes down, and he will, the entirety of Poppy's network will go with him. Their boy has brought down the house.

I heard Friedman this morning and mostly wanted to slug him. If he said "Shame on me" in reference to his gung ho war days, following up with lame nonsense of wanting people to have democracy, I would have gone to NJ and done so. Pulitzer prize winner indeed, I wonder if he's still going to spout that "world is flat" nonsense. It occurs to me we are all living in a bubble of one sort or another. Ours was to believe that people who governed or wrote Pulitzer prize books knew what they were doing or were smarter than us. Clearly, they're not.

The one thing Friedman was right about was the training of the Iraquis. He said they all. obviously, know how to shoot guns already.

[H2O Man]

19. When Bush says

that he "urges the members of Congress to take this report seriously," Baker has to realize that the person he put into office is out of touch with reality. Two nights ago, some of the guests on a MSNBC show were saying that many of the fellows from the Bush1 group hold W. in contempt. The more he clings to his "victory" shit, the more this contempt will grow. And there may come a time when George finds that those who give can take away.

[Me.]

21. Failure Is Not An Option

Right. When's he leaving?

And what's with McCain?

[H2O Man]

24. Bush is a failure ....

to such an extent that his father broke down weeping.

McCain continues upon the path he took that has led to him snuggling with Bush and humiliating himself with Jerry Falwell.

[Me.]

37. It's Like Exchanging One Nut For Another

McCain for president. And while it might seem as the extremes between them are greater, to my mind it could be like exchanging cyanide for arsenic.

[seemslikeadream]

18. You know we're ALL waiting to hear those words

:hi:

2506 "I'm waiting to hear the words 'I was wrong' Dick Morris, 4/9/03
Tue Jun 20th 2006, 03:59 PM
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/seemslikeadream/109


"Tommy Franks and the coalition forces have demonstrated the old axiom
that boldness on the battlefield produces swift and relatively
bloodless victory. The three-week swing through Iraq has utterly
shattered skeptics' complaints." (Fox News Channel's Tony Snow,
4/27/03)



"The only people who think this wasn't a victory are Upper Westside
liberals, and a few people here in Washington." (Charles Krauthammer,
Inside Washington, WUSA-TV, 4/19/03)



"I will bet you the best dinner in the gaslight district of San Diego
that military action will not last more than a week. Are you willing to
take that wager?" (Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly, 1/29/03)



"What's he going to talk about a year from now, the fact that the war
went too well and it's over? I mean, don't these things sort of lose
their--Isn't there a fresh date on some of these debate points?"
(MSNBC's Chris Matthews, speaking about Howard Dean--4/9/03)



"It is amazing how thorough the victory in Iraq really was in the
broadest context..... And the silence, I think, is that it's clear that
nobody can do anything about it. There isn't anybody who can stop him.
The Democrats can't oppose--cannot oppose him politically."
(Washington Post reporter Jeff Birnbaum-- Fox News Channel, 5/2/03)



"Now that the war in Iraq is all but over, should the people in
Hollywood who opposed the president admit they were wrong?"
(Fox News Channel's Alan Colmes, 4/25/03)



"I'm waiting to hear the words 'I was wrong' from some of the world's
most elite journalists, politicians and Hollywood types.... I just
wonder, who's going to be the first elitist to show the character to
say: 'Hey, America, guess what? I was wrong'? Maybe the White House
will get an apology, first, from the New York Times' Maureen Dowd. Now,
Ms. Dowd mocked the morality of this war....

"Do you all remember Scott Ritter, you know, the former chief U.N.
weapons inspector who played chief stooge for Saddam Hussein? Well, Mr.
Ritter actually told a French radio network that -- quote, "The United
States is going to leave Baghdad with its tail between its legs,
defeated." Sorry, Scott. I think you've been chasing the wrong tail,
again.

"Over the next couple of weeks when we find the chemical weapons this
guy was amassing, the fact that this war was attacked by the left and
so the right was so vindicated, I think, really means that the left is
going to have to hang its head for three or four more years."
(Fox News Channel's Dick Morris, 4/9/03)



"This has been a tough war for commentators on the American left. To
hope for defeat meant cheering for Saddam Hussein. To hope for victory
meant cheering for President Bush. The toppling of Mr. Hussein, or at
least a statue of him, has made their arguments even harder to defend.
Liberal writers for ideologically driven magazines like The Nation and
for less overtly political ones like The New Yorker did not predict a
defeat, but the terrible consequences many warned of have not happened.
Now liberal commentators must address the victory at hand and confront
an ascendant conservative juggernaut that asserts United States might
can set the world right."
(New York Times reporter David Carr, 4/16/03)



"Well, the hot story of the week is victory.... The Tommy Franks-Don
Rumsfeld battle plan, war plan, worked brilliantly, a three-week war
with mercifully few American deaths or Iraqi civilian deaths.... There
is a lot of work yet to do, but all the naysayers have been humiliated
so far.... The final word on this is, hooray."
(Fox News Channel's Morton Kondracke, 4/12/03)



"Shouldn't the prime minister and all of us who thought the
war was hasty and dangerous and wrongheaded admit that we were wrong? I
mean, with the pictures of those Iraqis dancing in the streets, hauling
down statues of Saddam Hussein and gushing their thanks to the
Americans, isn't it clear that President Bush and Britain's Tony Blair
were right all along? If we believe it's a good thing that Hussein's
regime has been dismantled, aren't we hypocritical not to acknowledge
Bush's superior judgment?... Why can't those of us who thought the war
was a bad idea (or, at any rate, a premature one) let it go now and
just join in celebrating the victory wrought by our magnificent
military forces?"
(Washington Post's William Raspberry, 4/14/03)



"This will be no war -- there will be a fairly brief and ruthless
military intervention.... The president will give an order. attack] will be rapid, accurate and dazzling.... It will be greeted by
the majority of the Iraqi people as an emancipation. And I say, bring
it on."
(Christopher Hitchens, in a 1/28/03 debate-- cited in the Observer,
3/30/03)



"Speaking to the U.N. Security Council last week, Secretary of State
Colin Powell made so strong a case that Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein
is in material breach of U.N. resolutions that only the duped, the dumb
and the desperate could ignore it."
(Cal Thomas, syndicated column, 2/12/03)




Until the philosophy,
Which holds one race superior
And another inferior,
Is finally and permanently
Discredited and abandoned,
Everywhere is war.

WAR

Until there is no longer first class
Or second class citizens of any nation.
Until the color of a man's skin,
Is of no more significance than
The color of his eyes,
I've got to say "war".

WAR

That until the basic human rights,
Are equally guaranteed to all,
Without regard to race,
I'll say "war"

Until that day the dream of lasting peace,
World-citizenship and the rule of
International morality will remain
Just a fleeting illusion to be pursued,
But never obtained.
And everywhere is war.

Until the ignoble and unhappy regime
Which holds all of us through,
Child-abuse, yeah, child-abuse yeah,
Sub-human bondage has been toppled,
Utterly destroyed,
Everywhere is war.

War in the east,
War in the west,
War up north,
War down south,
There is war,
And the rumors of war.

Until that day,
the african continent will know no peace
There is no continent,
Which will know peace.

Children, children.

Fight!

We find it necessary.
We know we will win.
We have confidence in the victory
Of good over evil
Of good over evil

Fight the real enemy!

Bob Marley

[bleever]

23. This response deserves its own thread.

:thumbsup:

[H2O Man]

25. It sure does. n/t

[renate]

48. yes it does, and it would be K&R'ed to the moon

:applause:

[brer cat]

30. Very powerful and moving post.

[riderinthestorm]

22. I was chilled to read that the B/H report recommends "more advisors and trainers"

for the Iraqi Army. I know they qualified that by stipulating that they weren't advocating more troops, just a re-allocation of the present number of troops but my guess is that this will be the section that Bu$h seizes upon to force his confrontation with Moqtada Al Sadr.

The "trainers and advisors" will be embedded (cough) with the Iraqis to train them during this fight.

I was stunned to read that the B/H report recommends withdrawal by April 2007. Fat chance, I thought. Four months away? This Admin has been ostensibly working to "train" the Iraqi Army for a couple of years now - "to stand up so we can stand down", and suddenly it's all going to be okay in 4 months?!

Were you surprised to hear the depth of disaster that is the police force? I read it as irretrievable - it is so corrupt, riddled with infiltrators and death squads, it's hopeless.

[H2O Man]

27. I wasn't surprised.

The police/death squads are not appreciably different than those the Reagan/Bush1 folks trained in Central America a generation ago.

[bleever]

26. Thank you for this incisive look at the whole situation.

The same logic that applies to the need for Rumsfeld's resignation applies to the impeachment of Bush and Cheney.

[bridgit]

28. wait a minute, Friedman and the whole chorus up to & including the neocon...

dog-pound was screeching for a war path & entry into Iraq as the only thing that would stabilize the ME i.e. whatever takes the focus off of Israel is good for the ME; this is a great read of your's H20 Man, and i'm k&r'ing it after i post this, but here's my question for you for now...

are they all coming back home now still feeling a little drunk & wobbly, used & abused; these Friedmans & neocons & whomever else had their heads stuck up their collective ass, because the focus simply always comes back around to the I/P issue regardless?

whatever made bush's handlers, his 'yes men' his, "nice shot mr. president" dweebs ever think that they could give THEE likely most important task of this new millennium to so psychotically unbalanced a sociopath as g.w. bush

there certainly seems more nuance to me, than just having the lack of intellect to be willing to sign any paper that is slipped beneath your nose

bush is in a bubble, a haze of ignorance for that matter; that is where he prefers his life be lived, so that to the detriment of this fragile world, he has never been made to live outside it perhaps that time is now

:kick:

[H2O Man]

29. The necroconservatives believed

that they were so much smarter than everyone else, that they could complete their agenda with an empty shell of a man fronting as "president." And despite the general belief that those necroconservatives are out of power, we can see that they still have an agenda to promote, and they are still willing to clap and cheer if Bush allows Cheney to do their work.

[bridgit]

33. thanks, but the image of Perle eating lemon crepes at his very own Paris...

restaurant with a great & studied delicacy, over espresso & far from the death he advocates upon others is a disturbing one indeed

[brer cat]

31. I've tried to be open on the impeachment issue.

Getting the troops home must be our first priority. But if * can't see reality, I'm not sure than anything other than impeachment will accomplish that.

Great essay, H20 Man!

[H2O Man]

34. Thanks.

Every day the president's pathology is causing the suffering and death of innocent human beings, and for what? Because he refuses to recognize his errors, and because Cheney is lusting after an oil god. The American people need to remove these people from power.

[The Wizard]

51. Under Section Four

of the 25th Amendment the President can be removed from office for being unable to perform the duties of Office. Then Cheney would be the Don. With Cheney's approval rating hovering in Idi Amin territory, impeachment should be easier than invading and occupying a sovereign country.

[kineneb]

32. we have no more chance of "winning"

then the British did during our revolution. Same circumstances: long supply lines, empire vs. "insurgents", imperial over-reach, lack of manpower.

Never mind Korea or Vietnam. George III (US) is as batty as George III (British).


Those who fail to learn from history...

[Pithy Cherub]

35. Bush and Cheney are anti-democracy

by using totalitarianism and authoritarism in standing stubbornly on a foundation of lies and corruption to claim their flawed horrid viewpoint is just. al Sadr has more influence in Iraq than Amercia after an enormous investment of blood and treasure that will not win the "Noble Cause" as amorphously stated by the Cheney cabal, supported by Bush. They are trapped and have decided to fight rather than accept the last fig leaf offered by a commisson that had no anti-war voices on it. That was his last best shot and he has decided to take the American vestiges of credibility over the Cliff with him to preseerve ego and privilege.

Iraq is now a 2008 issue as those who cling to the hope that implementation of the suggestions will work. I found it interesting that it was an American effort that did not secure any notable Arab Leaders to speak to its probability or viability in favorable tones publicly. ISG reached out and sought information but they were not imbued with dimplomatic authority to broker deals. Cheney runs off to Saudi Arabia and it is a reasonable assumption that he denigrated the ISG's suggestion. Hence, mor mixed mesaages with ISG, Congress and the White House having no purity of message and tone since the belief system is all over the map while a Civil War rages. The Iran=Contra Gates is confirmed but may already effectively neutered by Bush's comments and Cheney's sidebar deal to push for other measures.

This week the neocon publications and mouthpieces will be interesting to watch as they either reinforce Cheney or attempt to reduce the echo from his megaphone. More people's lives are at stake and the bush misdministration is already treating any new ideas as a theoretical academic exercise with no prospects of implementation!

Most excellent H20 Man, most excellent! Stay tuned...

[H2O Man]

42. Bush and Cheney

are a threat to the US and to the world. When Bush becomes so angry and lashes out at reporters for asking him about a IGS study that Condi Rice advocated for, then every reasonable citizen -- and elected official -- must recognize he is an unstable man.

[pat_k]

36. The electorate rejected Bush -- the whole package -- not just his "'vision' for Iraq"

I think that it is not simply Iraq, although Iraq started Bush's downhill. But it is a gestalt around George Bush. it's being a pariah to other countries; it's people dying in what they increasing find is a vain fight; it's massive budgetary imbalances; it's a lack of compassionate conservatism; it's insecurity in jobs; it's the feeling that people have not been leveled with.
-- Curtis Gans, Director, Center for the Study of the American Electorate

When the electorate rejected the Bush "package" (Bush, his administration, and his rubber stamp Congress) as intolerably incompetent/corrupt/extreme, their message was loud and clear: "We want out of Bush-World!"

Impeachment is the ONLY way out.

Americans are torturers NOW. Bush and Cheney are committing their war crimes and conducting their criminal surveillance operation in plain sight. We must challenge every member of Congress to introduce or co-sponsor articles of impeach and make the case. They have all the necessary ammunition. We are long past the need for investigation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3004846&mesg_id=3005369">The Election was about one thing. That one thing is a person. Bush

[LSK]

38. What. A.Fucking. Mess.

I will be buying the ISG report after work.

This is such a fucking disaster.

[H2O Man]

39. It is.

It is as bad as people on DU have predicted it would become. It's strange how fools like Sean Hannity have said that the democratic left wants things to go bad in Iraq, because they despise Bush. Yet when we read DU in the past 24 hours, there has been an intense amount of emotion expressed -- but not any "happiness" about the disaster.

I can't help but mention a quote from Michael Scheuer's book, Imperial Hubris: " 'We thank God for appeasing us with the dilemma in Iraq after Afghanistan,' Ayman al-Zawahiri said in late 2003. 'The Americans are facing a delicate situation in both countries. If they withdraw they will lose everything and if they stay, they will continue to bleed to death'." (xxi)

[H2O Man]

41. I should add

another quote, from his book "Through Our Enemies' Eyes," which I think addresses the effort to say we should not examine the cause of the circumstances we find ourselves in -- as if we can find a solution without understanding the cause:

"A decade ago, our leaders might have been given the benefit of the doubt for failing to understand the motivation of our enemy. Today, they merit no such indulgence from American citizens. They merit only scorn and contempt. President George W. Bush, Senator John Kerry, Vice President Dick Cheney, Senator John McCain, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, Senator Hillary Clinton, Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, former President Bill Clinton, and their print and electronic media acolytes are, quite simply, lying to Americans. The motivation of these leaders to lie is not for me to say; I cannot see into their hearts and minds. On the basis of easily accessible evidence, however, that they are lying is irrefutable." (x)

[Usrename]

40. To the Hague!

He has no strategic intelligence value!

[bvar22]

43. "The U.S. military would defeat the Mahdi army in a "surge." "

"The U.S. military would defeat the Mahdi army in a "surge." I doubt it.

....ONLY if the Mahdi army stupidly agreed to a "set piece" battle. They won't. They will disappear into the civilian population.

The USSR was unable to defeat the Afghan Mujahadeen militia in Afghanistan.
The USA was unable to defeat the Viet Cong militias in South Viet Nam.
The French were unable to defeat the Muslim militias in Algeria.

I am unable to think of a single instance where an organized Occupation Army has been able to defeat a local militia in the 20th Century.

[H2O Man]

44. You might try

quoting more than one sentence out of context. And, perhaps take the time to look closer at the history you mention. The USSR was indeed able to defeat the Afghan and Arab militias in battles, but not the war. And in the most famous "surge" in the Vietnam War, the US military did win .... but that didn't matter, because at the very moment they won the battle, they lost the war.

[me b zola]

45. k&r

[rosesaylavee]

46. Was only able to see

a little of the press conference with * and Tiny Blur... I couldn't believe that they were still using virtually the same talking points. But what disturbed me more than what they said, was the way they were saying it. They did not appear to be too concerned over the massive loss of life.

These men are monsters.

[illinoisprogressive]

47. what really happens if

Iraq falls totally under? We know Bush cannot handle this and with Pelosi just taking the helm of congress and everything, what happens? It will probably do so very soon. does daddy come in and basically run the country and daddy's friends work to start the clean up while locking cheney in his dungeon?
We must think of this. I do not think impeachment is the issue. It's what happens in the very short term and who runs the place while crazy george is off in his dreamland of iraq fantasy.

[democrank]

52. Yesterday`s Bush/Blair press conference

made my jaw drop. How on earth could they, in this matter of life and death, continue to substitute war rhetoric for substantive, reality-based responses? Are they so disconnected, so out of touch that they believe there is such a thing as a "winning" strategy?

[npincus]

53. depressing as all hell... a crazy, inadequate megalomaniac

is the Decider.... he is pathologically incapable of admitting error or any kind of course correction. Others will have to intervene, if even THAT would work.

Bush Sr. is a DISGRACE. He let himself become a shadow... protecting his own son has sacrificed hundreds and thousands of sons and daughters around the world and here at home.