LAT: Airman Is Shot After Brief Chase - Cont.

[951-Riverside]

I believe this story is very important and to let the story itself just simply go away and die just doesn't do it justice.

Originally posted by "question everything" in LBN

From the Los Angeles Times

Airman Is Shot After Brief Chase

A deputy's shooting of a car passenger in Chino was videotaped. The man was wounded while apparently obeying the officer's order to get up.
By Lance Pugmire and Michelle Keller
Times Staff Writers

January 31, 2006

A San Bernardino County sheriff's deputy shot an Air Force security officer late Sunday night after the airman told the deputy that he was in the military and "on your side." A videotape of the incident, which was shot on a residential Chino street about 10:30 p.m., was of poor quality, showing only a silhouette of the deputy and the face of the man who was shot — illuminated by the deputy's flashlight. But the tape appears to show the deputy opening fire as the man was trying to comply with the officer's apparent order to stand up.

Senior Airman Elio Carrion, 21, had been riding as a passenger in a Corvette that was involved in a brief, high-speed chase with the deputy that reached speeds of 100 mph before the Corvette crashed into a fence, authorities said.

The videotape, shot by Chino resident Jose Luis Valdes, shows Carrion sprawled on the ground and repeatedly telling the deputy, "I'm on your side."

The deputy then seems to shout, "Get up!" after which Carrion appears to lean forward. "I'm going to get up, all right?" he says. The deputy then fires his gun three or four times from about five feet away. "Shut … up, you don't get up …!" he shouts. Moaning in pain, Carrion responds: "You told me to get up."

(snip)

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-highspeed31jan31,0,4417415.story?coll=la-headlines-california

[951-Riverside]

1. Great News! KCAL9 news just reported Elio Carrion is in good condition

Also If you watched the KTLA newscast the deputy continued to verbally assault Mr. Carrion mins after he was shot.

[951-Riverside]

2. Updated Detailed 2 Page Article from the LAT:

Airman's Shooting Sparks FBI Probe

By Lance Pugmire and Matt Lait, Times Staff Writers

Responding to a dramatic videotape of a police shooting, federal officials opened an investigation Tuesday into the conduct of a San Bernardino County deputy who opened fire on a man who appeared to be following the deputy's order to get off the ground.

A grainy videotape of the shooting was repeatedly broadcast on television Tuesday. The quality of the tape is poor, and it is difficult to clearly make out all the verbal exchanges between the deputy and 21-year-old Elio Carrion during the seconds immediately before the shooting.

At one point, a voice on the tape appears to say "stay on the ground." A moment later, however, the deputy appears to tell Carrion: "Get up, get up."

"I'm going to get up," Carrion replied, as he began to rise from a crouch. As he did so, the deputy, who was standing a few feet from Carrion, fired multiple rounds.

Carrion, an Air Force policeman who had recently returned from duty in Iraq, was hit in the chest, shoulder and leg. He was listed in good condition Tuesday at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center in Colton.

San Bernardino County sheriff's officials have refused to release the deputy's name.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-highspeed1feb01,0,7570035.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[951-Riverside]

19. Officer is pos. Ivory J. Webb IV, 45 son of a former Compton chief

A San Bernardino County sheriff's deputy who shot a 21-year-old Air Force security officer in an incident captured by a video camera appears to have violated accepted police tactics and may have committed a criminal offense, experts in the use of force by police said Wednesday.

The experts cautioned that the low quality of the digital recording may obscure some important evidence. But what is visible — the image of the deputy firing multiple rounds at 21-year-old Elio Carrion as he appeared to follow the deputy's order to get off the ground — was shocking, they said.

"It's a criminal act," said Roger Clark, a former Los Angeles County sheriff's lieutenant who routinely testifies in court as an expert in police tactics. Clark has worked both for police officers and for citizens who have sued the police. "He shot an unarmed man who was complying with his orders," Clark said.

David Klinger, a use-of-force expert who teaches at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, and wrote a book titled "Into The Kill Zone: A Cop's Eye View of Deadly Force," said the recording was "the screwiest thing I've ever seen. It makes no sense."

http://ktla.trb.com/news/la-me-highspeed2feb02,0,3338690.story?coll=ktla-news-1

[951-Riverside]

20. Its confirmed his name is Ivory J. Webb IV (fmr football player)

About 8 years ago he was sued by the California Employment Development Department and had to pay them about $2500

[951-Riverside]

3. Video is now available online!

http://www.ogrish.com/archives/soldier_shot_by_sheriffs_deputy_Feb_01_2006.html

Just a little warning this version of the video is blurred, edited and the quality is terrible

[951-Riverside]

6. Video Link #2

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3701021042638173366

High Quality Link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/7gwdty

[951-Riverside]

16. I don't want this thread to turn into a war like before...

If you have something to say be decent to each other don't use insults, don't name call, don't say something negative that you know will provoke another to respond angrily, don't paint someone with a broad brush & don't make wild claims that can't be substantiated.

Thank You.

[Sydnie]

4. just saw that footage on my local news

disgusting! He makes it through Iraq to be shot by a policeman at home. gggrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Neil Lisst]

5. the officer clearly told him to get up, then shot him as he did

If the video had not been running from a neighbor, the truth would have been swept under the rug. The cop got pissed when the guy on the ground told him that he was a military cop himself.

Police are out of control in this country, mainly because the tone from the bush administration has been that you treat anyone accused as guilty.

[Rex]

7. But but but

Cops never do anything wrong, ever! If they shoot someone 26 times then, dammit, the person deserved it in some way, shape or form! Everyone is a criminal that gets shot, run over with a truck, tazered to death, etc, etc by a cop (even if they did nothing wrong in the PRESENT). Something in their past sanctioned a hot led enema! The suspects practically ask to be shot! :sarcasm:

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. It's a break down of discipline

No one is held accountable and anything goes. Both are a dangerous combination.

[951-Riverside]

10. Like CHP Officer George Michael Gwaltney this "officer" is a bad apple

...that slipped through the cracks other officers know how to use self control unlike this *officer* BTW I hate calling him that but thank goodness someone caught him before he could hurt more people.

George Gwaltney Case

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

9. He forgot to put the magnet next to the videocam before returning to

the stationhouse...

[951-Riverside]

11. Actually a citizen caught this on tape. n/t

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

13. Wow, so it was a Rodney King scenario? I'll have to watch, now...

[sandnsea]

12. I saw that on KTLA

It's just shocking. In many ways, more shocking than the Rodney King beating because it was just so ruthless, the cop just shot him. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it.

[Tesha]

17. Get used to it.

Every time one of these goes down and people *DON'T* immediately rise
up in revolt at the local police station, it enables several more similar
"police actions".

Tesha

[sandnsea]

18. I know

And to think Alito ruled that cops can use deadly force pretty much whenever they decide they can. Damned scary. :scared:

[High Plains]

14. Police violence is a serious problem in this country.

There are people on DU who reflexively defend every police shooting (although they seem to have scuttled away from this one now) and, sadly, they are representative of majority opinion in this country. It is almost impossible to get a cop indicted on a bad shooting, let alone convicted, because Joe Juror is just inclined to believe anything they say.

"I thought he had a weapon and I feared for my life"--those are all the magic words necessary.

And can anyone tell me why San Bernadino County can refuse to provide public information like the name of the police officer involved? How does that serve the public interest?

[dogday]

15. Our Local police are getting storm trooper training

No longer will they try to subdue a citizen, they will just taser or shoot... This is the new homeland security method of protecting the citizens of this country...

[benEzra]

21. There is speculation on the High Road...

that the first shot was a negligent discharge by the police officer (finger on the trigger, MAJOR safety boo-boo), and the surprise discharge made him think he was under fire, so he fired twice more. That would explain the incredibly lousy aim (but thank goodness for the bad aim)...

Unless there's a great deal more to the story that we aren't hearing (and I don't see how there could be), the officer is guilty of GROSS negligence.

He was also grossly unprofessional after the shooting. He repeatedly tells the wounded man, who is lying on the ground groaning in agony, to "Shut the f*&k up!! Shut the f*&k up! Shut the f*&k up!"

[phrenzy]

22. boo-boo?!?!

WTF are you talking about? Yeah, maybe that's the story the cop can give.. I was scared by my own firing at an innocent person.. so I had to shoot 2 more times into the guy.

Gross negligence? Umm.. try fucking MURDER

[benEzra]

24. That doesn't exonerate the officer; that's DAMNING to the officer...

WTF are you talking about? Yeah, maybe that's the story the cop can give.. I was scared by my own firing at an innocent person.. so I had to shoot 2 more times into the guy.

Gross negligence? Umm.. try fucking MURDER

That doesn't exonerate the officer; that's DAMNING to the officer. He's toast. Finger OFF the trigger until actually ready to shoot is one of the four most basic rules of gun safety. My five-year-old daughter knows better than that. Police (and civilians, too) get this pounded into their heads during training--don't point the gun in an unsafe direction, and keep your finger OFF the trigger until ready to shoot.

The suspect was lying on the ground and following his instructions to the letter. The gun should probably NOT have been pointed directly at the suspect (a low-ready position would arguably have been sufficient in this case), but more importantly, you NEVER put your finger on the trigger when you're just covering someone and you don't intend to shoot them. Police officers get this pounded into their heads during training (so do we "civilians," for that matter).

The fact that two of the three shots were WAY off target at such close range indicates that it was likely not a deliberate shooting. Nearly stationary target, officer not under fire or anything, it's unlikely that he would miss so badly, unless his firearm skills were simply abysmal. My wife could shoot better than that with her eyes closed.

Who knows, maybe he was trying to deliberately murder the guy and was just an incredibly bad shot. Maybe he told him to get up so he could say he "lunged" at him or something. But I personally think that's somewhat less likely.

If a gun goes off unexpectedly, it's quite startling...bright orange flash, 160+ decibel BOOM. If the officer is already in a fight-or-flight response (which this officer appears to have been), it is entirely possible that he might not have realized for half a second that HE fired the shot.

Here's another incident from just last week--an accidental shooting by a police officer with his finger on the trigger when it shouldn't have been.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/26/AR2006012602136.html

SWAT team member is coming down the stairs with his pistol pointed directly at an unarmed, compliant suspect (safety violation #1) and has his finger planted on the trigger like he's in a B-grade movie (safety violation #2). Predictable result: Boom, he accidentally shoots and kills the suspect.

Although police and firearms authorities were divided yesterday on whether SWAT teams are needed for most search warrants, as is Fairfax's practice, they agreed on another point: Officers carrying guns should not aim directly at anyone or have their fingers on the trigger until they are absolutely ready to fire.

"In my opinion, there are no accidental discharges," said John Gnagey, executive director of the National Tactical Officers Association. Gnagey was not familiar with the Fairfax case but said that in general, "Most of what we see in law enforcement are negligent discharges, fingers being on the trigger when they shouldn't be."

[phrenzy]

23. Cop Apologists...

Waiting for the cop apologists to come out of the woodwork.. How he was "stressed out" and it's an "honest mistake"... Funny, that excuse never works for regular people.

[benEzra]

25. I'm not an apologist...

nor does this excuse the absolute IDIOCY of the officer in question, or his unprofessional behavior afterward. He should go to jail just like a civilian would.

Just pointing out that the incident is somewhat less consistent with an intentional shooting than with an accidental discharge followed by a reflexive response, and that negligent discharges by idiots who willfully violate the most basic gun safety rules do happen.

[Paladin]

26. Cop Haters Will Inevitably Turn Up, As Well

They're already out on this unfortunate incident, down in the DU Guns forum, where law enforcement trashing is a common thing....