Your Opinion, Please:

[H2O Man]

I have a few questions that I am hoping DUers will respond to. There are no "wrong" answers; I'm just interested in what people anticipate will result from the Baker-Hamilton Group's report.

{1} Do you expect the Bush-Cheney administration will accept any of the ISG's recommendation's? If so, what ones?

{2} What do you think the response of the new House and Senate should be if the administration refuses to act on the major recommendations?

{3} What do you think the response of the Bush1 fellows will be if the president refuses to accept their recommendations?

{4} What reactions will the public have to the Bush-Cheney attempts to "stay the course"? (I know that the Rendon Group has advised the administration to say they are "looking forward," rather than "staying the course." I don't think anyone is fooled.)

Thank you in advance for your answers.

H2O Man

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

1. My opinion.

{1} Do you expect the Bush-Cheney administration will accept any of the ISG's recommendation's? If so, what ones?

Yes. They will wholeheartedly embrace the subset of suggestions that are vaguely close to their current policy, and pay lip service to the rest. Little substantive change.


{2} What do you think the response of the new House and Senate should be if the administration refuses to act on the major recommendations?

Force him to do it. They can do this, given the political reality of the country at this point.


{3} What do you think the response of the Bush1 fellows will be if the president refuses to accept their recommendations?


Baker seems pretty angry right now, basically saying that nobody has any right to ignore him because nobody else has a better idea. Honestly, I don't think Baker thinks he can work with junior any more. I don't think he sees the point. This is something that's going to be done through the legislative branch, if at all.


{4} What reactions will the public have to the Bush-Cheney attempts to "stay the course"? (I know that the Rendon Group has advised the administration to say they are "looking forward," rather than "staying the course." I don't think anyone is fooled.)

Can you say 25% approval rating?

[H2O Man]

3. Re: #3

There does appear to be some serious tension between Baker and George W. Were I a betting man, I would put my money on Baker.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

5. It's telling...

...that Baker spent yesterday with congress, not Bush. The report was fairly brutal in its asessment of dubya - essentially, "part of the problem, not part of the solution."

[H2O Man]

7. When Bush keeps saying

that he hopes Congress pays attention to the ISG report, it is evident that he either doesn't get it, or that he is so dishonest that it is a waste of time talking to him.

[Hubert Flottz]

17. I saw Baker on TV the other day and he seemed very troubled.

On the day the Iraqi Study Report was released to the public, Baker was talking about it on TV later on in the day. I heard him say a couple of things that made a lot of sense. Baker talked about how America always kept up open and direct communication, between the USSR and ourselves, all during the cold war, even though the USSR was a "FAR GREATER Nuclear Threat," than the government of Iran even dreams of being. Maybe we need to reinvent the big red telephone for the Unitary Unit to utilize. Baker also has said that Bush shouldn't pick and choose the parts of the report that he likes and the simply disregard the parts that he doesn't like.

Nobody in Washington ever asks or cares what the people would like. Even Baker STILL acts like Bush OWNS the country.

[EFerrari]

2. This all feels like a soap opera (PR play) to me.

Imho, what we're seeing is an effort to mitigate the popular anger/irritation with Junior so as to minimize the consequences for the ruling party.

So: 1. No. 2. Noble and passive regret. 3. Headshaking. 4. The people will continue to vote their interests. Whether those votes are counted is another matter.

[H2O Man]

4. There is certainly

a significant number of republicans who hold office who are hoping to lay the blame entirely on the administration.

[EFerrari]

8. And behind then, the coroporate power structure. I think Poppy

was crying the other day because if the decision is made to throw Junior under the bus, his stock goes down.

Now, if Junior can be made to look embattled by the Democratic terrorist loving usurpers, that's another thing. (How can Democrats be obstructionists AND usurpers? :) )

Imho, the decision has been made to leave Iraq while holding on to as many asests as possible. They have to withdraw because it will soon become impossible to justify being there in any way and they can't risk public outcry rupturing the appearance of consent (mandate).

Not sure if I'm right but maybe this is what '68 would have looked like with handlers and media consultants.

[Virginia Dare]

20. I think you are on the money with that one...

pun intended.

Poppy has been entrusted by the corporate overlords for many years now. His son is screwing up royally and they're not happy. Poppy's now trying to get it all back, but it's a lost cause. His benefactors can't be too happy about all of this, to say the least.

[blm]

18. I have to agree with this - Bushboy is being overruled by the big powers who

need their agenda maintained and furthered in a quieter way, much as they experienced during the Clinton years.

Bush's violent incompetence set their agenda back and left it open to greater exposure and scrutiny that they thought they had beaten through Clinton's tenure.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Always glad to discuss things with you, H2OMan

1. Bush-Cheney accept any of the ISG's recommendations? Since the headlines for the NY Times online edition says Bush won't follow two key provisions, I'd say basically no. If there's some recommendation that is basically cosmetic, they'll do that so they can claim that they follwed the recommendations.

2. If Bush refuses to act upon recommendations, the House should basically shut down the money pipe and simply stop funding for the war effort, especially money going to the contractors over there. This will take political courage, and I don't know if we have anyone other than Dennis Kucinich who is that courageous. The Senate should hold investigations into how the war has been waged, and call on the members of the Baker Commission to testify, thereby keeping the fact that Bush is not taking the recommendations seriously in the news.

3. Baker et al will probably look to Poppy Bush to decide what to do next. The ball is really in his court to try and make his son see the light. This isn't good, as their relationship is terrible.

4. If Bush tries to "stay the course" and Congress acts against him, the public will, I feel, start demanding impeachment. If Congress goes along and does nothing, I fear that come 2008, everyone will be thrown out of office.

[H2O Man]

10. The president seems

so hostile to any advice, that I do not think he will be willing to accept the help he is being offered. I believe that the ISG's recommendations are not strong enough, but that they likely recognized that Bush & Cheney would reject anything else outright.

I expect that when the public becomes more fully aware of the role that Saudi Arabia has been playing, they will resent Dick Cheney even more than they do today.

[bryant69]

9. I'm completely fooled

Looking forward sounds totally different from staying the course. In staying the course you move forward while going in the same stupid direction. In looking forward you stay in one spot while looking in the same stupid direction. They are totally different.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[cassiepriam]

11. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior:

1} No, some attempts to pretend, but in reality no.

{2} Cut funding.

{3} Bush will be thrown to the wolves by his own party,
and it is happening already, that is why poppy was crying.

{4} Lower approval ratings, big Dem win in 08.

Edited to add: go to the grocery store and buy the latest
tabloid Globe. Bush has been tossed off the train by his own people.

[Me.]

12. #1 Is Easy

A big fat no. Given apples or oranges they will choose bananas

#2. As they can't cut funding without appearing to not support the troops I think Pelosi, Reid and all the dems should be in front of the cameras, a real pr "surge", holding their feet to the fire

#3. How angry will Baker get with them before he starts delivering horseheads to their beds is the real question. This is a power struggle in so many ways.

#4. The American public is, I think, running out of patience. This admin has 6 months tops before calls for impeachment becomes universal. Sooner if things get worse. Also, how many people are aware, do you think, that one of the study's R's is to ship federal workers from DC to Bagdad? If that begins to happen in any number, well...In fact it might be good for them to try and enact this little noticed R, because such a draft will really pull the wheels off the wagon.

[Patsy Stone]

13. Morning!

1) No. The fact that he's already said he's going to use it as a Chinese menu is problematic, since one of their first suggestions was "Don't use this as a Chinese menu". That says to me that he's paying them lip service and plans to shelve this immediately. The cynic in me says he'll follow only those suggestions which still afford him the opportunity to keep an eye on the oil.

2) Even though they have decided to form a "bipartisan consultant group" in the Senate (Lieberman and Collins) to make sure that they stay on him about this, they are going to have to pass legislation (and/or make him veto it) to actually get any of the stuff done.

3) A good deal of head shaking and a hearty "Well, GHWB, we tried, but your boy seems too arrogant and stupid to take the graceful exit/humanitarian suggestions we gave him. Pass the martinis, please."

4) Hopefully, a call for impeachment, or a good deal of public dressing down in articles and news reports.

I also liked the Cliff's Notes version of the report in this thread. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2875814

[Virginia Dare]

14. He's beyond delusional now...

he will ignore it, forcing Congress to impeach him. Thus, the meltdown by Poppy the other day, he can see it coming.

[Annces]

16. I agree with this one - he will ignore the problem

Can they hold out for 2 more years of same? I don't know.

[spanone]

15. Bush* will force Congress to cut funding to end war. Blame Dem Congress on ensuing violence.

Blame Dem Congress on loss of war. Blame Dem Congress on chaos. The Blame Game. That is all Bush* knows. imo.

[ms liberty]

19. K&R -

I don't really expect them to actually implement any or many of the recommendations. I think they'll make noises about looking at them, and try to make it APPEAR that they're going to implement some of them, but like everything else they do it will be a PR effort only.

I think the House and Senate should do what I've wanted them to do since Day 1: investigate and impeach those criminals. As far as the war and the ISG recommendations, I really am not sure what they CAN do about tactics and strategy. I think they can really only control the purse strings, no? It may come to cutting off funds. I'm open to suggestions.

I expect the Bush41 fixers to wield their power behind the scenes. I think in the end they'll probably engineer the removal of them both - Bush and Cheney. I think a number of variations on that theme are possible, depending upon how stubborn the Bushco's are.

Have you seen the post this morning that Bush is down to 27% approval, 71% disapproval? I expect it to bottom out...I think it could go down to about 18 - 20%. The overwhelming majority of Americans have come to their senses, and no longer trust the propaganda they're being fed. When it comes, I think impeachment would be greeted with relief by most of the US.

The variable in this is that these people are capable of doing something stupid to try to pull out of this, i.e. an attack on Iran or a terrorist incident. But I think it's clear that the powers behind the 'throne' want to cut their losses, and that possibility is becoming less viable. Daddy's friends, the real power brokers are on the scene, and that changes the dynamics.

I haven't really thought about this in depth, or in an organized way, so what I've said above is pretty much off the top of my head.

[mdmc]

21. Here is my take sir

1. Yes. They have no other choice, and they need to act soon. I am not sure what they will do, but I am sure that Saudi Arabia will be in agreement with the course of action w. takes.

2. ISG doesn't really offer anything good except Ait offers a reality based picture of the real Iraq, and B it admits that the neo-con "stay the course" tripe has failed.
The Senate and House must hold w. accountable. The public will also have to do the same.

3. Silence. They know that the neo-con plan is not as good as their own new world order. They know w. is a failure. They will be silent.

4. Public reaction will be muted. Once Bush is gone, this will be Washington DC's war. The next pres will need to get us out of this. I only hope the public will remember those that enabled Bush to do this, and those that opposed this war. If this happened, I would be satisfied.

Thanks for the OP. Peace and low stress

[Lilith Velkor]

22. Yay, questions!

I like the ones with no wrong answers. :)

OK:
1. Hell no!

2. I think they should already be engaged in full-on attack mode on multiple fronts regarding domestic policy, then whip out the supoenas when they drag their feet regarding the war.

3. I have no idea. I put nothing past those guys.

4. :wtf: :argh:

[Junkdrawer]

23. I think it's Big Oil's "Stick it to W" Trojan Horse...

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-juhasz8dec08,0,4717508.story?coll=la-opinion-center

At this point, anything Dubya opposes instantly gains uncritical support.

[Ganja Ninja]

24. Here's my answers.

1. No.
2. Impeachment.
3. Work behind the scene toward impeachment.
4. More Anger.