Please DU--lose the "Sleeper Cell" ads

[wtmusic]

I find this shit really offensive. Racist, stereotypical, intolerant fearmongering. Scary brown ferners and airplanes. Isn't that a bit...beneath us? :eyes:

[azurnoir]

1. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you

I was appalled at the premise of the show, be afraid, be very afraid. Sweet Jeebus,like we need more of that

[ixion]

2. second that

thanks! :applause:

[bryant69]

3. I think it's a valid premise for a show

Depends on how they handle it, but the reviews haven't been too negative.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[wtmusic]

4. How they "handle" it from a Muslim's point of view

"In fact, the Showtime special unknowingly and ironically emphasizes this fear-inducing ignorance while attempting to educate the public about Islam. During the "making of special," the strong, comforting but purposeful narrator informs us that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, with 1.2 billion faithful worldwide, and up to 6 million practicing in America. Then, the narrator's voice turns deadly serious and foreboding, and the voice warns us "The number of terrorists? Unknown."

(Cue hysterical shrieking and mass panic now)."

http://www.altmuslim.com/perm.php?id=1629_0_25_0_C

[bryant69]

7. So we should pretend that Muslim Terrorists don't exist?

Would that make Muslims more comfortable?

Bryant

[wtmusic]

9. No, we should acknowledge that terror doesn't exist.

The concept of "terrorism" is blind jingoism used to justify conquest.

When we kill them it's "war", and it's good. When they kill us it's "terror" and it's very, very bad.

[bryant69]

10. Well that's not going to happen

But your agenda seems clear.

Bryant

[wtmusic]

11. Enlighten me

What's my agenda?

[bryant69]

12. Are you one of the LIHOP/MIHOP faithful?

Should check that first.

[wtmusic]

14. Strike one.

So people who feel minorities deserve a fair shake tend to be wacky conspiracy theorists, is that the gist?

[bryant69]

18. I feel the minorities deserve a fair shake - that has nothing

to do with this.

You are making an equivilance between our soldiers invading Iraq and Afghanistan and, at least in theory, avoiding civilian casualties with the people who attacked us on September 11th in such a way as to maximize civilian casualities.

That suggests an agenda to me.

Bryant

[wtmusic]

19. They would have preferred to attack us militarily

(and have--USS Cole) but they did the best they could with the resources at hand.

Contrast that with the firebombing of Fallujah, which, given our resources, could have been entirely avoided.

[bryant69]

21. Like I say - you have an agenda

It's not an agenda I intend to get behind.

Bryant

[wtmusic]

22. And you're "agenda" is more valid than mine because...

it's yours! :eyes:

[bryant69]

23. Well I can firmly say I'm opposed to civilian casualties

Since you justified 9/11 I guess you can't. You're ok with killing American civilians if they really can't find any military targets to hit.

Bryant

[wtmusic]

25. And you're ok with firebombing Fallujah

and killing Iraqi civilians? Is that how the logic works?

[bryant69]

26. No - because I oppose the war in Iraq and wish we weren't there

I think the firebombing of Fallujah was a terrible mistake and I wish our troops hadn't done it.

I guess I should have clarified that earlier.

Bryant

[The Stranger]

16. You go from supporting a lying, hate-inspired show to a non-sequiter about whether someone "exists"?

That isn't even good rhetoric. Actually, that isn't even bad rhetoric. It is humorous to watch, once it is shown for what it really is.

Whatever it is . . . Is it argument?

[novalib]

42. TERRORISM CERTAINLY EXISTS!!!

And the BIGGEST Terrorist Orgnaization in the WORLD has its headquarters in the UNITED STATES -- in a SUBURB of WASHINGTON, DC!!!!!

It's called the PENTAGON!!!

[The Stranger]

13. Oh bullshit. It is a show intended to demonize one subset of the population.

Only one group of people are considered "sleeper cells," and they are judged so based on their race and/or their religious beliefs.

[bryant69]

15. Gosh I wonder why that is?

What could explain that correlation? Why it must be racism and religious bigotry. Certainly there's no other reason people might think that most terrorist sleeper cells contain Muslims.

Bryant

[The Stranger]

17. You better believe it is Racism and Religioius Bigotry.

Are you openly supporting that here?

[bryant69]

20. Is it bigotry to point out that the people who killed nearly 3000 of us

on September 11th were Muslims and from the Middle East?

Is it bigotry to suggest that al-Qaeda operatives if they are in the United States (and many believe they may be) are made up of Muslims?

Finally is there a difference between saying that Muslims are generally terrorist (which certainly is bigoted) and saying Terrorists these days are often Muslims (which seems far less bigoted, but a simple statement of fact).

Bryant

[wtmusic]

27. yes, it is

because it's been pointed out ad nauseum, to the point of inducing general anti-Muslim hysteria. Last thing we need.

[bryant69]

29. And round and around we go.

So we just pretend that Muslims Terrorists don't exist, right? So as not to arouse anti-Muslim hysteria?

Bryant

[wtmusic]

45. I imagine I'm a US soldier in Iraq

with only good intentions. I'm there honestly trying to help the Iraqi people. Then one day I notice there's a new Iraqi TV production called "The Torturers", featuring sinister light-skinned Americans with waterboards and rubber truncheons. An exciting new series about Abu Ghraib! (they've thrown a brown-skinned torturer in the cast to make everything PC). And suddenly my Iraqi friends aren't so friendly.

Get the point?

[bryant69]

48. I do but I don't agree with it.

You don't censor the truth, even if some people might find it offensive.

Bryant

[wtmusic]

50. Censorship is an entirely different issue

Censorship is a mandate. There's no mandate here--the only issue is sensitivity. There are probably many things you could pick out statistically about minorities, some not particularly flattering. Does not speaking out about them constitute censorship?

And would you approve of "The Torturers" being broadcast in Baghdad, while US troops are being picked off by sniper fire?

[bryant69]

51. Yes I would

Or at least I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. If I watched it and concluded that the whole purpose to whip up hatred of Americans I would want it off the air - but if it were a more nuanced look, a serious drama, exploring what kind of people end up as torturers than I don't know that i'd much to say.

By the same token if this show were an open and shut racist tirade you'd have a clearer case - but that's not the impression I've gotten from reading the press on it.

Bryant

[wtmusic]

52. The point is that most viewers would not be as objective as you

To deny that the general effect would be to make American soldiers' jobs more dangerous is just unrealistic.

[bryant69]

54. That's an interesting take

People are too stupid for the truth?

I can't go along with you on that one.

Bryant

[wtmusic]

56. You are looking for nuance

most aren't.

[bryant69]

57. So we should restict ourselves to Seseme Street Homilies until

everybody grows up?

Bryant

[wtmusic]

59. No, we should restrict ourselves to gross oversimplifications

That your cup of tea?

[bryant69]

61. Ah Gross oversimplifications - like instead of saying

Most Muslims aren't terrorists we say Terrorists aren't Muslims?

Bryant

[wtmusic]

62. The show is saying, "most Muslims aren't terrorists"?

Funny, I didn't get that at all. How did you arrive at that?

[bryant69]

63. I'm tired of this.

Good luck in your future endeavors.

[wtmusic]

64. backatcha

:hi:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. Hey, I know.

How about a show about second generation Japanese Americans determined to sabotage the US during WWII. Nothing racist at all.

:eyes:

[bryant69]

36. Except that it would be a cultural non-sequiter

The culture isn't fighting World War II right now.

Bryant

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. Are you familiar with the term "japanese internment?"

Because it's the same sort of endemic bigotry going on here.

[bryant69]

38. I am familiar with it

Are you calling me a bigot?

And are we locking muslims up in internment camps?

Didn't we just put Kieth Ellison in the house of Representatives?

Bryant

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. "are we locking muslims up in internment camps?"

Indeed we are. Guantanamo. Abu Ghraib. Various secret prisons in former soviet bloc nations. Etc.

"Are you calling me a bigot?"

No. People who are afraid of sleeper cells and stereotype muslims as terroists are bigots.

"Didn't we just put Kieth Ellison in the house of Representatives?"

The people of Minnesota did. And all across the country pundits and bigots threw a major tantrum about it.

[bryant69]

41. You'd have to prove that the bulk of the people in

Guantenemo were put in Guantenemo simply for being Muslim. Also I'd be curious to know how many American Muslims ended up in Abu Ghraib.

If you check my site you'll see that I attack bigotry - but bigotry consists in saying that Muslims are generally Terrorists or hinting that we need to do something to smack down Amerian Muslims, or saying that you can't be a Muslim and a Good American (as they did in the Ellison case).

It is not bigoted on the other hand to say that Islamic Terrorists are Islamic (as this show does). I acknowledge that this show could be a trainwreck, but that's not the impression I have gotten, from reading the reviews. Rather it's a risky artistic choice that, so far, they seem to be threading pretty well.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. Do you see any abortion clinic bombers in Guantanamo?

any anthrax mailers?

Is Eric Rudolph being tortured at Abu Ghraib?

Is Anne Coulter right when she says "not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslim?"

"Rather it's a risky artistic choice that, so far, they seem to be threading pretty well. "

It's about as artistic as those old superman comic books where he's beating up yellow skinned Japanese people with big buck teeth and thick eye glasses.

[bryant69]

46. They are going though the US courts

Well obviously not all terrorists are Muslim. But Islamic Terrorists, such as those who killed nearly 3,000 of us on September 11th, are Islamic.

I take if you've seen the show? How many episodes have you seen?

It got good reviews at Popmatters --> http://www.popmatters.com/tv/reviews/s/sleeper-cell-060118.shtml and Salon --> http://dir.salon.com/story/ent/tv/review/2005/11/27/i_like/index1.html?pn=2 (starts halfway down the page).

Should all portrayals of Islamic Terrorists be censored?

Bryant

[novalib]

44. Are You AT ALL TROUBLED????

Are you at all troubled by the fact that SLEEPER CELLS EXIST within the GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES??!!

Those sleeper cells want to DESTROY our CIVIL LIBERTIES and KILL PEOPLE overseas!!

Some members of those sleeper cells work in the US Senate (where they swore with their hands on the bible!)

Most (if not all) of them are WHITE, ANGLO-SAXON PROTESTANTS!!!!!!

[bryant69]

49. I see that I've offended you by expressing ideas you don't agree with

You'd better get used to that.

I'm not keen on the Bush Administration or their Republican allies in congress if that is what you are asking.

Bryant

[Gruenemann]

5. Uhh...have you actually seen this show?

In the first season, the cell included a blond surfer dude and an eastern European. Not exactly racist. Fearmongering, maybe. I suggest you watch it before you condemn it. If you do and it's crap, fire away.

[wtmusic]

6. Funny how the blond surfer dude doesn't show up in the ads

Appealing to our baser fears. Haven't seen it, and won't.

[Dorian Gray]

24. That's because he was one of the bad guys

in the first season. Heck, I enjoyed the show. It was interesting, and it made the point blank statement that terrorism has nothing to do with Islam.

[UndertheOcean]

8. All TV is stupid.

n/t

[shadowknows69]

30. As are most sweeping generalizations

:eyes:

[UndertheOcean]

34. Well , I've been trying for 1 year since I got cable to find something decent , Till now nothing

nada , zip .

What little good stuff they show on PBS I can get a 100 fold more from books.

[shadowknows69]

39. As would most anyone

But there are some good documentaries out there and some really good satire in a few comedies if you're one that enjoys a chuckle. B-)

[Jcrowley]

28. Agree

ARABS AND THE MEDIA
by Narmeen El-Farra

Journal of Media Psychology
Volume I, Number 2, Spring 1996

A stereotype is the creation of a biased opinion or view -- an individual will take the behavior of one person and state that all people belonging to that particular group, be it an ethnic, religious or social group, behave in the same manner.  The establishment of stereotypes encourages people to react and behave in a manner that is both judgmental and biased.
The word Arabs is used to describe an individual from the Middle East.  Despite the fact that these individuals are from different countries, with diverse cultures, beliefs and a variety of religions, they are characterized by one term, "Arabs."  The word Arabs reduces individuals and countries to a distinct target,  open to stereotypes and bias.

The Western media has often projected individuals of Arab descent in a negative manner.  Currently,  Arabs are seen as terrorists and murderers due to how the media presents them.  Newspapers use key words such as extremists, terrorists and fanatics to describe Arabs.  According to Shaheen (1984), "The present day Arab stereotype parallels the image of Jews in pre-Nazi Germany, where Jews were painted as dark, shifty-eyed, venal and threateningly different people."  These distortions of the Arab people have created a general mistrust and dislike for Arabs among Americans.

To identify Arabs with terrorism is to classify them as enemies.  In research conducted by L. John Martin (1985), results showed that the word "terrorism" was used by the press in describing events and individuals they disapproved of.  Yet, when describing these same acts by individuals who are not Arabs, the media was careful to appear neutral and unbiased.

A good example of media coverage which presented facts of an actual event in a prejudicial manner was the Oklahoma City bombing.  In 1995, within minutes of the event, news reporters were insinuating that the bombing was an act of terrorists.  Raised with unpopular stereotypes of Arabs, the American public was quick to develop images of Arab terrorists destroying American property.  These views were fueled by the fact that it was a state building containing several government agencies.  For example, "Steven Emerson, a terrorism expert,  told viewers not to believe Islamic groups when they denied involvement."  Furthermore, CNN, a major news channel, gave the actual names of Arab suspects being detained for questioning in connection with the bombing (Alter, 1995).  This type of reporting was a departure from the normal objective stance CNN usually takes of protecting the identity of individuals involved in criminal activity until the facts have been confirmed. It was impossible for the American public to conceive of the word terrorist in application to citizens of their own country.  The word terrorism is synonymous with Arabs.  Yet, the arrest of an American citizen for the Oklahoma bombing forced them to look at mainstream America and its ideologies.  It is the mass media's inability to handle a forced examination of their own people that forces them to look outward for scapegoats.

http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/sfischo/Arabs.html

[shadowknows69]

31. I have no problem with Skinner trying to make a buck

My biggest concern is how it might be viewed by other visitors, particularly since we've now made national media, given the rhetoric of the left being terrorist sympathizers.

[wtmusic]

58. agree

Though many here claim the show is objective what will be perceived is that the left supports terrorism.

[verse18]

32. I love the show.

I can't wait for the new season. To me the show is none of what you describe. Obviously you've never watched it. It's not racist or stereotypical because the characters of this cell include a blonde-headed American, a Muslim from Bosnia (I think) and a former skinhead turned Muslim from France, as well as a African-American Muslim and an Arab. And it has nothing to do with "scary brown ferners and airplanes."

What I like the best is that it focuses on the planning stages of terrorist. They first season of the show we saw the Cell being financed with drug money from Mexico. They stole chemicals from an American chemical plant and the buy explosives from a White supremacy militia. I'm not naive enough to believe there are not sleeper cells in the US wanting to do us harm, whether they're Muslim or rabid White RWingers.

[Connie_Corleone]

33. I guess you never watched the show....

because you're way off base in your description of the show.

[matcom]

47. Options ----> Edit Your Preferences ---->

Display Google ads?
Selecting "no" will turn off Google ads (donor only)

:shrug:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

53. Says the guy with Osama in his avatar.

[wtmusic]

55. I know--it's the Mickey Cap that scares you

Sorry about that!

[sabra]

60. I found the show like "24" but with a message

One episode dealt with Gitmo, portraying a teenager who only became "terrorist" after being swept and held in Git mo for 3 years.

No question, the show has a 24 element, but it also spends a considerable amount of time re: internal struggles and the actual items in your OP.