The other side of Habitat For Humanity

[bobbolink]

Since there are so many advocating donations to this organization, I would like for all of you to consider that there are also downsides. I don't have much time to get this writtten, so please excuse typos, etc.

I also used to think that Habitat was wonderful, even though I knew it would never be an answer for me. (No, single people just aren't thought of in Habitat--or anywhere, for that matter. We singles have NO help with homelessness).

Habitat really isn't for homeless people anyway--it's for those who already have jobs and a place to live, just not a big enough place, or ...... Habitat is also for those whose health permits them to give 500 hours of time to building a house. Many of us simply cannot do that. So, it's obviously a niche charity--for a very small group of people.

Now, that wouldnt' be so bad if there were also groups who were as well known and as popular doing a big job for homeless people, especially singles, and were getting a number of them into their own homes. BUT....that's just it... there is NOTHING. There is NO GROUP working for those of us who aren't served by Habitat! We're throw-aways, who can just fade away and....die.

Look, for instance, and what happens to those homes. Once that house is turned over to the new homeowner, it is completely theirs to do with as they wish. They could turn it around the next day and sell it for a huge profit, and that would be fine. How many of these homes are still in the hands of low-income people? How many of these homes are now owned by those who can afford market-rate housing? I don't think anyone even knows, because I know that where I am, there has never been any followup.

Compare that with housing built specifically for low-income people. In five years, that housing is still there and available for those of us without $$$ to invest in housing. In 10 years, it is still there for people like me who have NOWHERE to live, except our car. In 15 or 20 years....there are still people living there who don't have other choices. No so with Habitat homes.

We homeless people feel invisible, and are hurting because we simply aren't considered in these plans.

The image of Jimmy Carter with hammer in hand is very endearing, and I also think very highly of the man.

But, please, consider that Habitat is very appealing to many people, including conservatives, and that we homeless people really badly need the support of liberals and progressives to help us to take care of our needs, which aren't being addressed.

Habitat has all the support it needs... we can use your thoughts on our problems.

[Raine]

1. My father was a regular donor to HH

but got fed up because it seemed like they put most of his donation right back into asking him for more. :-(

[Demit]

5. All fundraising does that.

[OneBlueSky]

41. not true . . . really well managed charities do not spend inordinately on fund raising . . .

and those that do are probably those that you should look a lot closer at when considering a donation . . . I recall, for example, that for years I would get many, many elaborate and expensive mailings from Greenpeace, to the point that I stopped contributing and found other environmental organizations to support instead . . . (don't know if they're still doing that -- this was 20 years ago or more) . . .

there are places online that rate charities by how much of their income they devote to fund raising . . . can't seem to locate a link right now, but if I find one I'll post it later . . .

[OneBlueSky]

42. Charity Navigator - Find a Charity You Can Trust . . .

http://www.charitynavigator.org/?gclid=CPm4r_XmhIkCFTA8FQodZECHLA

[Sapphire Blue]

43. Two links: Charity Navigator & Give.org

Charity Navigator : http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm/bay/search.alpha.htm

Give.org: http://www.give.org/reports/index.asp

[mondo joe]

53. For FY2003, Habitat Intl's spending on fundraising was just 3% of their total

expenses. Administration was just 7%. That's pretty damn good.

Especially when you consider that 76% of their income is from contributions -- not even including in-kind.

[Midlodemocrat]

107. It has always been that low. They are fantastic at what they do.

A lot of donations are in-kind which keeps staff salaries down.

[Sherman A1]

14. Same here

I finally called them and demanded they take me off their mailing list. What I could give was easily eaten up buy the wonderful trinkets sent out to solicit more donations. Now my rule is anyone that sends me any trinkets (address labels, note cards, etc) gets absolutely nothing from me.

[mondo joe]

51. How did your father measure that?

Every non profit has to put some of its revenues back into more fundraising.

It's utterly wise to check that it's a reasonable amount of money, however.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. How would you propose changing Habitat to be a better organization?

[petgoat]

19. I'd suggest projects with a more realistic living standard.

Lower cost, lofts, shared bathrooms and kitchens.

Part of the housing problem is that higher living standards
price poor people out of the market. Fifty years ago a one-bathroom
house was standard. Europeans were used to a WC down the hall.

Indulging in exagerrated living standards only enriches the real estate
profiteers.

[uppityperson]

101. Habitat houses I've seen are modest, small in size & bathrroms.

[Midlodemocrat]

108. Yes, they are. They are essentially the minimum amount of square footage

for the number of members of the family.

[Mythsaje]

3. Maybe there SHOULD be a group

that's acquiring homes and fixing them up...even apartment complexes, if you want to go that far, for those people that aren't part of the Habitat Demographic.

I think one of the stumbling blocks that is that a lot of folks equate homelessness with crime, and don't want such developments in their neighborhood or community. I think it might well be worthwhile to start a project like that. There are a LOT of condemned properties in certain areas that are just boarded up and left like that for years. They're eyesores, and they're obviously neglected. Are they kept by the owners as a write-off, or are they available for back taxes or arguable targets for eminent domain based upon their condition and obvious availability?

You make some good points. It IS something we should be thinking about.

[calimary]

11. I'd like to see that project begun. Because for some truly needy,

it's an apartment that would help most, as opposed to a whole house whose expenses and hassles they may not be able to handle.

I'd push for that. Sort of a two-headed approach. Habitat for Houses. And Habitat for Apartments. BOTH needs are urgent and very legit.

[bobbolink]

56. Locally, 20 acres was donated to Habitat. They have houses planned

and won't consider letting even one acre be for apartments for those who are so desperate.

So, we stay in our cars in the snow.

Kinda like having your nose pressed up against the glass, looking in at people sitting around the fire and singing.

:cry:

[dionysus]

134. Habitat Homes still have a mortgage

it's zero interest but the occupants do have to buy the house you know.

[SharonAnn]

4. Most Habitat loans do not allow resale except under very defined

conditions. Also, they have had to set up conditions for getting "Home Improvement Loans" because owners were being targeted by unscrupulous lenders, with incredible interest rates, and losing their homes.

Habitat does not have all the support it needs.

It is not an "either Habitat or the homeless" situation. We can work on both of them.

We need to do much more to provide low-income housing. The best start that I know of is that we've elected a Democratic majority in the House and the Senate. We need to expand on that and run up the volume on the discussion about the need for low-income housing.

[CBHagman]

49. I had heard that in certain housing markets...

...the families in Habitat for Humanity homes were finding that their property taxes had risen so much due to increasing home values that they had trouble affording the tax payments. Moreover, because there were guidelines concerning selling their HFH home, they could not simply sell and leave the market.

I had also heard that Habitat homes really are simple, more along the lines of traditional pre- and post-war American homes (for example, one bathroom for the whole family), rather than some upscale creation.

I have not personally worked on Habitat projects but will ask a friend who has.

[WolverineDG]

82. You are correct

The families have to pay off the mortgage & also put in "sweat equity," a certain number of hours to build their own & other's houses. They can't just up & sell their homes either, since HFH is the note-holder. I think what most do is sell back to HFH & HFH puts another qualifying family into the home.

As for the house that I helped with: It had a den, small dining area, kitchen, 3 bedrooms & 2 bathrooms, as well as a roofed-over carport (NOT a garage); also there was a small utility room for the washer & dryer & also gave them some storage (not much). You would not be able to confuse this house with a McMansion.

dg

[DrBlix]

98. SharonAnn You Spoke for me

It appears to be "get Jimmy Carter" week since his new book Palestine; Peace Not Apartheid hit the market.
.
Habitat for Humanity is a wonderful program. Yes there is much more we can do to help the homeless but knocking an existing successful program isn't going to accomplish that goal.
.
My recollection is that there are limits on if and when they can sell their home 5 years was mentioned but don't quote me.
.
As for low income rental assistence programs and that does include singe homeless they do exist BUT not enough of them with many states programs now at their limit due to federal budget cuts, so any new applicants are turned away.
.
It doesn't appear it will get any better any time soon.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. kick

[babylonsister]

7. Can you recommend any other organizations, bobolink?

I do intend to contribute this holiday to help the homeless, and did contribute to HH last year. But I too am amazed at all the mailings I get from HH asking for more. I know it's necessary but the volume is staggering. I think more of the money spent for fundraising should be put towards their mission statement.

[bobbolink]

57. THat's just it... there aren't any!! That's what I'm saying!

It hasn't been something that anyone has found to be worthy of their attention.

Everyone wants to say that it's a group working for one small niche need, but then it's dropped, and the rest of us are just left hanging.

Hurrah for those lucky ones.

Now, how 'bout the rest of us?

What are we--chopped liver??

[dysfunctional press]

89. so start an orginization, already.

instead of just compaining that no such organization exists, why not put some effort into getting one started. if it's going to be done, somebody has to do it.

[NMDemDist2]

8. while HH is a great org, I'd like to see our $$$ go to the homeless

that's why I suggested ComicRelief of which 100% goes to homeless charities all over the country

they are focusing on the Gulf Coast/Katrina this year but have ongoing projects in many cities that deal directly with giving health care and food to homeless people

[Sapphire Blue]

9. bobbolink, I'm glad you posted this.

I don't think people realize what it's like to be on the other side, the side that needs help... and to be turned away because you don't fit the criteria, whatever the criteria may be. Meanwhile, those donating money or time continue to feel good about their contributions; they don't see those who are turned away, they may not even know anyone is turned away.

In the case of Habitat, they see the newspaper story about the newest Habitat family moving into their brand new home. They don't read about the family that got evicted yesterday... that story didn't make the paper.

:hug: :loveya:

[calimary]

13. Hear, hear!

There's no way some of us would know the whole story unless those who are TRULY on the front lines share their experiences. I just wish our bobbolink had a bigger pulpit.

[Sapphire Blue]

30. She deserves a bigger pulpit! A MUCH bigger pulpit!

Those who haven't walked in another's shoes don't know how miserable another's journey can be. Some will help when they understand the misery. Others are unwilling to even imagine walking in those shoes.

And some have worn those shoes until they have holes in them.

[bobbolink]

66. Thanks. It takes so much out of me.

I keep telling the clergy here that I'm the wrong one to do this, and there is need for a really good leader.

All they do is remind me of Moses and Abraham and Debrah.

Sigh...

Where do I go to resign this gig???

Really, it's so hard to speak up when it's your own disaster you're talking about!!

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

21. How is it H4H's fault that someone is evicted?

I don't get the connection.
And yes, the way the thing is set up, there are people who do not fit the requirements for working on the house... how would YOU decide who gets the help?

Just stand on the corner and give it away?

[Sapphire Blue]

33. Is it H4H's fault?

How would I decide who gets help? Well, if someone doesn't have a roof over his/her head, s/he would qualify.

Just stand on the corner & give it away? If I could, damn straight I would.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. You think evictions should be publicized?

[Sapphire Blue]

34. Perhaps they should be. Might be harder to ignore the plight of the poor if you're faced w/it...

... whenever you pick up a newspaper or turn on your teevee.

There might be shame involved, though... shame on a society that permits this to happen, permits a significant portion of its population to be homeless.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. And shame for those who have been evicted

which is why I think it's a bad idea.

[Sapphire Blue]

47. Shame for what? For having one's human rights violated? The shame is on the society that allows it.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Article 25:

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. Do you know anyone who has been evicted?

They feel ashamed. Yes I agree that the shame belongs on a culture that ignores the poor. But I also know that the evictees do have pride and they do feel ashamed when they are evicted.

[Sapphire Blue]

90. Yes.

They felt anger. They felt despair. They felt hopeless. Shame? Not so much. They didn't have control over the circumstances which resulted in eviction. Why, then, would they feel shame? To make it easier on society's collective conscience for them being put out on the street?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

52. The only ones who should feel shame are those with power to help

And choose not to.

This is a core mistake in our society. We prefer to blame those who are the victims rather than those who do nothing to help them. If we could change that about us as a society we'd be much greater as a whole.

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. I am not blaming the victims

I just don't think publishing their names in a newspaper is a smart idea.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

67. I understand your intent

I wasn't criticizing it, just exploring the reality of the situation.

Americans have a way of pretending what they don't see isn't real. I know that most in this country don't realize the number of people who lose their homes due to being ill and no longer able to work. As a result we don't have the required safety nets to catch these people when they fall. Instead we let them fall off the radar, forgotten. Then we turn our backs on them when they're living on the streets because that's undesirable to witness.

I agree it seems harsh, but perhaps it's what it will take to make more people realize the enormity of the problem.

[bobbolink]

58. THanks, Sapphire! It's hard to talk about, because some are so ready to flame.

It's not easy to put your greatest vulnerabilities and needs out to be shot down.

Sensitivity and concern are mostly a thing of the past, and most of us just keep quiet rather than speaking up and getting slapped.

:cry:

There are so many of us, and the ones I've talked with feel the same---hurt, drained, no longer trusting in the "goodness of mankind", and ready to throw in the towel.

It's much easier to defend the sacred cow than to care about the ones left out.

Thanks for your understanding.... you don't know how much it means!

:hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

[Sapphire Blue]

92. ...

:hug:

[dysfunctional press]

91. not everything in the OP is true.

"Look, for instance, and what happens to those homes. Once that house is turned over to the new homeowner, it is completely theirs to do with as they wish. They could turn it around the next day and sell it for a huge profit..."

others posters have stated that this is totally false- HFH homeowners cannot just sell their homes and take the money.

[Sapphire Blue]

10. K&R

[jmowreader]

12. Here's what I don't like about Habitat

The program is for people with children only.

It doesn't matter how many thousands of hours of labor you've donated to Habitat, how much money, anything. If you don't have a kid, they won't approve you for a Habitat house.

[calimary]

15. And so we're left with the plight described in the OP.

I'm a mom with kids, so I get that part of it. But what about the singles with no kids - who need the help also?

[REP]

44. Married or Single Without Kids - We Don't Exist

My kidneys are failing, and I am B- (the worst group for tx), and I will get lowest priority on the waiting list. Why - because I'm an IV drug-user? No, I'm not. Because I'm very old? No, I'm in my early 40s. No, I'll get lowest priority because I don't have children (nevermind my kidney disease makes pregnancy a very very stupid idea - if I lived through a pregnancy, I'd bounce to the top of the list).

That's just one example where those who don't have children, either by choice or chance, are treated unfairly. Bobbolink and JMowreader have given another; there are plenty of others.

[bobbolink]

68. You're so exactly right!! But, we just don't count--we're invisible.

If you say you need help, you're pushed away because you're just a lousy single.

But, if you say you can't make it anymore, and are ready to check out, then you're told ..."Oh, no! Your life is important."

Yeah, right.

Shit.

Yanno, I think those of us who are on the bottom and hurting like this have been too polite about it.

There are millions of us... if we decided to make their lives uncomfortable until they listened, things would be different, in a hurry, I bet.

Here's to you...:toast:

[mondo joe]

50. There ARE programs to help the homeless. Habitat isn't the only non profit.

Jesus H. Christ. What don't people see about that?

[uppityperson]

104. No it is not. I have a childless friend who qualified.

[Solly Mack]

16. k/r

[H2O Man]

17. I have had some

experience with working with families who did not quite fit HH's program. However, in both cases, I was able to get some of the guys who are involved with HH locally to help out, outside of HH, on their own time.

No program can possibly meet every need. HH is no different. It meets the needs of a fairly specific group, and that is a good thing for that group. HH doesn't have all the volunteers or resources it needs. People do well in supporting HH.

However, I can say that there are significant segments of the population who are homeless, and who do not get assistance from some of the higher profile programs, such as HH. These people are found in both rural and urban settings. They may be any age, although there are growing concentrations of teens & early 20s, as well as over 50. They may be employed, underemployed, or unemployed; they may be caught in a cycle of those three.

Because some may have substance abuse, mental health, or legal issues, the media has created a myth that most/all do. It's just not the case. It is, in fact, far more likely that they will have a need for dental care than any other type, at least initially. Lack of dental care will lead to other health issues. The "simple" things that many of us take for granted take on a different significance for the homeless.

We are at a point in this country where the homeless population must be viewed as human beings with dignity who are the victims of the 2nd generation of reaganomics. Much like with the flood, the federal government is not going to resolve the problems -- they probably couldn't, even if they wanted to. But while we work to change the government, we also need to be invested in meeting the human needs on the community basis. There are plenty of programs, including but not limited to HH, that help meet people's needs.

I'm concerned about the emergency needs. It's cold as heck here in the northeast, and there are hungry people. That's my concern, for what it's worth.

[EFerrari]

18. I agree with you. It's not as cold out here but it's cold enough

and every day on my beach walks, my puppy finds people living in the low chaparral where no human being should have to live in this country.

/spelling

[bobbolink]

70. Well, that success you talked about depends on having someone who

is in your corner, and twists a few arms, doesn't it?

"There are plenty of programs, including but not limited to HH, that help meet people's needs."

Well, as I said, there's nothing for people like me.

There won't be until/unless it becomes important enough to those who could do something about it, or until poor folk all get together--all the millions of us--and raise enough hell that we aren't so easily dismissed.

I've told the clergy around here that they've been able to dismiss us because we haven't come with axes and hatchets to "dismantle" their doors and get in out of the cold.

Until then....we'll all die off silently, one by one...

[H2O Man]

83. You raise

a valid point, in terms of the programs that I am familiar with in this state being different than those in other parts of the country. It is likely that people can do the most good by doing hands-on work, and investing time and money, in their own local communities.

[bobbolink]

102. When I was working on a political campaign in 03, and Indian friend

also working on the campaign said to me, when we were discussing poverty issues, "Bobbolink, you can't be the only one to be advocating for an issue. Take it from an Indian, we know that doesn't work."

That's when I realized that political solutions weren't in the offing, because it's just not a sexy issue.

It's equally absurd to think that poor people can advocate for themselves/ourselves in the community. We're given about as much acceptance and importance as last week's garbage. As maddening as it is, we need and depend upon others to champion our cause.

Otherwise, we're spitting in the wind, and getting weaker.

THere is much that people can do, both locally and nationally, if they decide they want to. As one pastor said, "We have the means, but lack the will."

That about sums it up.

[LWolf]

20. Is HfH supposed to be THE answer?

I don't think there is one single solution to affordable housing. HfH is a private non-profit organization, not a political solution. There is room for them in the big picture. To truly guarantee affordable housing, we would need a public program, imo. I'm open to all ideas at this point.

[ulysses]

29. I have to agree.

The problems of poverty go beyond any one agency or group. We need to make this a national priority.

[cool user name]

22. I did not know about this ...

Thank you for making me aware.

[undeterred]

23. The house next door to mine is HforH

There was a single woman with 2 children who it was apparently built for. However she is actually coupled with a man who owns a couple of businesses and has quite a bit of money. I think he got her on the list for this housing but didn't marry her because she would have been disqualified. So, it seems HforH was scammed by these people. They have this house and another one too.

[Jcrowley]

24. K & R n/t

[wundermaus]

25. Looking into the eyes of the homeless...

is to stare into the mirror if my family missed a single paycheck... really... it's that close. The next medical emergency... the next automobile breakdown... the next layoff... any one of those events could be catastrophic for us...

every time I see a homeless man or woman by the side of the road with a sign saying "help me"... I gaze deep into my soul and shutter to think it is me and my family holding that sign...

We have failed to be a compassionate society... we are emotionally blinded by our cultural immaturity... we are selfish and self centered... and it shows all around us...

The tasks of caring for the needy, the homeless, the unemployed and under employed, the mentally ill or spiritually wounded is a massive and nationwide issue... but instead of a war on poverty... we have wars on terror - could there in fact be a relationship to the mis direction of efforts?

Almost fifty years ago a family could buy a home for a couple of thousand dollars... a small, modest bungalow... two bedrooms and a single bath... but those homes aren't built anymore... the entry level of home ownership and a livable minimum wage are mysteriously absent from our reality... what happened and why are we, as a nation, turning our middle class into indentured debtor slaves, homeless wanderers, and castaway mentally ill patients?

Could it be our true sense of community and family values have metathesized into a terminal case of GREED?

[thereismore]

124. Yes it is that close. I have been to the edge. nt

[truedelphi]

26. I'm usually the curmudgeon but glad you took my job

On this issue.

One of my big gripes is that the majority of homes that Habitat for Humanity builds are made from really cheap formaldehyde-releasing presswood (at least as far as the interiour framing and interior sheathing)


This is really dangerous stuff for a low income family to move into - and again, of course if that family has been living inside of a cardboard box, it's great, but if they are trading in an apartment?

I've read two accounts of young mothers who wrote in major media about their Habitat built homes - and how much they loved them, but how sad it was that they got a rare type of cancer shortly thereafter. Of course, they did not have the chemistry background to see the connection, but the cancer types they mentioned are just what you would expect.

So as a pesticide, toxic chem advocate - I wish someone would get the people at Habitat to check out the idea of Green Homes.

And I love the gripes you are posting bobolink. You shouldn't have to have kids on hand in order to enjoy a roof over your head. If you get the name of who we contact to look into changing this - please PM me.

Carol

[bobbolink]

60. I didn't know that! That certainly needs to be attended to!

THanks for that info... really, that is just absurd!

[Midlodemocrat]

115. Oh, horseshit. There is no scientific data to back up what you are saying.

And, frankly, it's irresponsible of you to say that HFH is *contributing* to cancer.

:eyes:

GTFU.

[jody]

28. Your observations and the replies are interesting. No Good Deed Shall Go Unpunished. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

133. Agree. We can't have charity for families, that apparently is bad. n/t

[jwirr]

31. My granddaughter was the recipient of a Habitat home. Her

contract reads that if she stays in the home for 20 years (most are for 10 years) then she will only have to pay $65,000 for it but if she sells the home before then she has to pay Habitat another $45,000 because she is not allowed to make a profit from it even though she has fenced the yard and planted trees and decorative bushes. It is my understanding that all Habitat contracts read this way.

However I do agree with you regarding the treatment of single persons living in poverty conditions. Homelessness is a bitch.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. kick

[Cleita]

35. Well, this is why I dislike the concept of alms or charity.

Yes, it's better than nothing. But in this, the twenty first century, we need our governments to have programs that take care of the least of us, so that we aren't left behind the more popular needy person.

Charity is popular with conservatives because it makes the appearance of it being voluntary and that tax break doesn't hurt. However, I envision charity to be for things that poor people can't afford, not for necessities.

Necessities like health care, decent housing and basic needs of food and clothing should be met by our governments. Charity perhaps, since it's selective anyway, could do toys at Christmas for less privileged children and things like that.

[mondo joe]

36. I think niche charities are a good thing. The more focused the misssion, the

more likely they are to achieve that, and avoid "mission drift".

There are a LOT of non profits. And that means there's the non profit out there that speaks to the donor and staff and need.

[JerseygirlCT]

37. That says nothing bad about Habitat. It just says you wish their

mission were different.

There's need enough in the world. Your priorities, based on your situation, differ from theirs, but that doesn't make theirs wrong.

I'm very sorry that you find yourself in the situation you're in. And I would hope that more would be done about the problem. There are many, many charities out there, serving many, many different needs. It's easy to pick any one of them apart for not doing it all.

But honestly, a good non-profit has a strong focus. If one tried to be everything to everyone, they'd be very ineffective.

[mondo joe]

38. I agree. No one non profit is supposed to address every need.

And no successful non profit tries to address every need.

[bobbolink]

71. How......... comforting........

How many of us have to die before OUR needs are attended to????

Oh yeah, that's right... we're not a big enough voting block to matter....

[mondo joe]

76. There ARE non profits that address issues of homelessness.

Talk about kicking someone when they're down - Habitat does a wonderful thing.

Want to bash the American Heart Association for not working on housing too?

[bobbolink]

80. I'm not going to respond to silliness.

You obviously can't find any compassion within you, so ...

Adios.

[Dorian Gray]

166. You have a beef with Habitat for Humanity

which I don't quite understand. I do understand that you've suffered circumstances and are having trouble finding a hand to help you out of them, which is terrible. But, the vitriol posed at H4H is a little disturbing. They do the job that is important and that provides housing for many families. It may not be an organization that will help you, and I am sorry about that, but they help a lot of people who would have no other place to turn. And it makes me uncomfortable that they would be criticized for that.

[TAPat]

163. Who's kicking whom, I wonder?

If I didn't have real, meaningful work going on here I'd have some choice words...

But I do, so I don't.

[fudge stripe cookays]

169. Attended to?

Why is it exactly that you can't attend to your own needs? Every single post I've read of yours bashes something or someone for the fact that you are poor.

I hate to sound like our friends over at the other board, but how far exactly does our responsiblity need to extend before you would be happy?

[JerseygirlCT]

39. As to no groups

("There is NO GROUP working for those of us who aren't served by Habitat! We're throw-aways, who can just fade away and....die.")


a quick google search at Charity Watch shows an "A" rated charity called the National Alliance to End Homelessness.

I'm quite certain there are many, many other organizations working on the issue, as it's a very important one.

Habitat does refer to "families" in their information about who they serve. They do have requirements about becoming involved in building, about ability to pay the mortgage, etc. They are geared toward the working poor, oftentimes. But I doubt that being single limits one. I don't know how they deal with a disabled person -- perhaps requiring that friends chip in the work?

Again, I'm very sorry for your situation. But I don't think Habitat is the enemy. The conditions out there that allow anyone in this country to be homeless aren't Habitat's fault. In a way, they're all of our faults -- and that's something we ought to change.

[Sapphire Blue]

40. kick

:kick:

[ismnotwasm]

46. Good points

I live in a high poverty working class area close to the city limits. We have HH homes not far away as well as low income housing. I recently found out that some of the rebuilt low income housing designed to attract diverse incomes, you can own the house, but not the land itself. Not good. A lot of what we do to help the poor seems to have some odd mismanagement at times. IMO

We have a couple of successful homeless shelters, one of them a converted hotel, that continues to work with homeless as well as the issues that come along with homelessness. Needless to say, when the proposal to convert the hotel to a homeless shelter was first proposed, the "community" fought it tooth and nail. I'm happy to report none of the dire predictions came true as a result of the shelter and it continues to help people from all walks of life.

[bobbolink]

54. "A lot of what we do to help the poor seems to have some odd mismanagement at times. "

You have said a mouthful right there, and summed it up quite well!!

This is an area where there is so much need for citizen involvement! What we've done in this country is left it to the "experts", and they have their own agendas, and it isn't always in the best interests of those they purport to serve. One big example of that is the current fad of "tough love", which has no love in it at all. It's bullying in sheep's clothing, and damaging to those of us who are hurting.

While I appreciate your efforts at shelter, it's really important to remember that what we need are homes and good places to live, not shelter. I'm almost 61, and bouncing from shelter to shelter isn't doing me any good. THat's how people deteriorate. Not to mention the health problems. Did you know that homeless people in shelters are getting TB at alarming rates? And, it's resistant to treatment. I know that I don't need that, and I can't imagine that it would be "character building" to other homeless people.

Thank you for your efforts, and please help us bring more awareness to DU about poverty issues!! :hi:

[Lurking Dem]

48. Habitat is not about housing the homeless.

It's about home ownership for families that otherwise would not be able to own.

There are responsibilities with ownership that include things like insurance and taxes. Very specific criteria need to be met because they don't want the people who get these homes to be in over their heads.

[Sapphire Blue]

55. Ah, yes, the great American Dream... owning a home. And the great American Nightmare...Homelessness.

IMO, putting a roof over everyone's head is more important than the relatively select few owning those roofs.

[bobbolink]

63. And the deaths of homeless people are just fine, eh?

[mondo joe]

64. What makes you think any one charity is supposed to do everything for everyone?

There are charities that address healthcare. Some address civil rights. Some address education. Some address homelessness. And some address home-ownership.

What's your problem with that?

[bobbolink]

72. "MY PROBLEM" is that, if you actually READ the posts here,

there is NOTHING for single women!!!

Care to help, and show some concern, or just want to kick someone who is already down????

If you actually READ, rather than just post to bash, you'll find that what you have said has been covered.

What is your problem with not being able to have compassion?

See, your snark can come back at ya.

Now, either grow a heart and care, or ....leave us alone in the cold.

[mondo joe]

73. That's not true. There ARE non profits whose mission is to adress homelessness.

I can name 6 off the bat just in my city alone - and I know there are more than that.

There's no reason to put down Habitat, which has a DIFFERENT mission - but a completely worthwhile one.

You might as well bash the Susan G. Komen Foundation because it only cares about breast cancer and not testicular cancer.

[bobbolink]

77. I don't need SHELTER, I need a home!!! THere's nothing for that.

Goddamn it, I'm almost 61, and I'm supposed to deteriorate in some damned shelter, and be required to sing for my supper, and be forced into "alcohol counseling" even though I'm certainly not an alkie, just because "everyone knows" all homeless people are alkies???

If you read that I "bashed" Habitat, then you're having reading comprehension problems.

Someone else posted about my "bravery" for talking about something that I'm vulnerable about. I replied that's why I haven't posted this stuff before, because it's so goddamned popular on DU to flame those of us who dare to reveal ourselves, and our pain. Thank you for proving my point.

Now, if you want to continue to flame me, go ahead, but I won't be reading. It is destructive, and certainly not helpful to those of us who are hurting.

Or, maybe you're one of those who take pleasure in the pain of others..?

[mondo joe]

79. I didn't say SHELTER.

And pointing out your errors or your bashing of habitat isn't flaming you.

[Lurking Dem]

87. welcome to ignore

[bobbolink]

103. Back atcha, sweetie.

[shanine]

59. Excellent brave post, bobbolink I only wish that more

people could actually "hear" what you are trying to describe (not just here, but out there too). Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't read that you were putting HH down, more like pointing out the more "dire, immediate needs" of people. I am not in your shoes but that does not mean I might not ever be.

[bobbolink]

65. Thank you--yes, it was hard to reveal myself. THere is so much flaming here

that it's scary to expose one's vulnerabilities. Seems like not much is respected anymore.

I would say more about my situation, and, indeed, have come close a couple of times, but... I just can't take people shitting on my pain.

No, nothing I said was really against Habitat per se, but ... it's a sacred cow, and people would rather jump on me than to hear the pain of not being included anywhere, and having No PLace To Be.

I sure hope you aren't ever "in my shoes", it's a killer. But, yes, it could happen to just about anyone.

Thanks so much for understanding, and taking the time to let me know. The isolation of poverty is a real killer, and we all need people like you to reach out and let us know our pain matters.

Thank you. :pals:

[AbbyR]

113. You are so right

about all of us being much closer than we know to homelessness. My husband died, and left me with nothing - no insurance, no way to keep the house. I am barely hanging on, can't afford to heat the place, but I WILL hang on as long as I can. The day I can't is the day that I, too, am homeless. I am one illness, one more disaster, away from being 56 years old and on the streets.

BTW - where do you live? House sharing is always an option.

[mondo joe]

69. Is there a particular charity dealing with homelessness that you'd prefer we support?

There certainly are many.

[bobbolink]

74. There aren't any actually working to get homes.

People my age don't need to end our days in shelters-- it's not healthy, and we just need decent homes.

One thing you could do is to actually get behind some lobbying effort with Dems. There are so many "causes" here on DU that people get behind and organize writing campaigns for, but when we ask for that for poverty issues.... crickets.

We recognize we don't count, and that, itself, hurts.

How 'bout organizing some support here on DU to get the Medicaid cuts of last year restored? Do you see that mentioned as a priority on any of these lists of what we want when Dems take over? Nope... just not on people's minds.

Why is that?

[mondo joe]

75. Are you saying there is not one charity in the United States that addresses

ending homelessness?

[bobbolink]

78. silly.

Try actually READING.

[mondo joe]

81. You wrote "there aren't any actually working to get homes."

So I'm asking you to confirm: in the united states there are no non profits with a mission to get homeless individuals into housing (other than shelters)?

Is that what you're saying?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

88. There are too few, far too few

And the ones that do exist have to struggle with dwindling resources brought on by apathy.

Most of the charities that address the issue provide at best transitional or emergency housing programs. These help to an extent but more often than not the people will once again become homeless when their aid expires. What is needed in mass is permanent housing solutions. Which is what bobbolink has been trying to draw attention to. In order for this to actually become a reality it will require a collective outreach from Americans and our governmental leaders. Instead, homeless face the fact that homelessness across the United States has increasingly become a criminal offense.

Ask yourself this question: If there's sufficient resources then why are the number of homeless raising at such an alarming rate in the US? For many it would appear the answer is because they're not dying fast enough.

[mondo joe]

94. There aren't sufficient resources for almost any non profit.

My point is that some - the OP included - are acting as if people only care about Habitat for families but don't care if single homeless people die in the streets.

That's simply not true. There ARE agencies concerned with this issue. There's no reason to complain about Habitat.

[Lurking Dem]

96. Here in Nashville we have

Housing Within Reach for those diagnosed with metal illness or a co-occurring disorder

Nashville Homeless Power Project advocates for housing programs for the homeless with private funding and lobbying for municipal funding.

The Homelessness Commission has a 10 year plan to end chronic homelessness in Nashville through a Housing First program.

That's just a few that are geared toward actual housing of the homeless here.

The Samaritan Housing Initiative is a federal program working in all 50 states.

Now is there enough funding? Hell, no! A lot more needs to be done. But people ARE trying to do something and I will not stand by and be accused of wanting to see homeless dead in the streets because I also support other charities with different directives.

I have both lupus and type 1 diabetes. I don't bitch because the American Diabetes Association isn't funding lupus research.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

97. Perhaps I read it differently

I saw the OP as pointing out that Habitat is only for those with children and that they don't address the needs of the homeless. Which I agree with, but I also agree with the fact that that's due to the type of charity they are. I missed the fact that they don't care if "single homeless people die in the streets" part. I agree that we can't blame HH for that, and I think that HH does fine with the work they do. However, since I've not lost any friends to death by homelessness recently, I don't think I can relate to the level of despair that the OP is actually feeling. As such, I'll not be throwing stones, but rather attempting to expand the conversation.

I strongly believe that housing is a basic human right and not something that should be left up to charities to provide. If I have any argument here it's that we should be slapping our legislators upside their heads with that message, rather than assuming it's a charity's responsibility.

When you speak of agencies do you mean governmental? Whose great plan it is to build more shelters and hide all the homeless, not provide them with permanent housing option's. Or do you mean such as the National Coalition for the Homeless? The NCH is greatly involved in all facets in homelessness reform but they aren't really making any headway. I blame their ineffectiveness on apathy from Americans. Beyond that it begins to breakdown and it's up to the states and communities, or not, as they see fit. Most don't deal with providing permanent housing, however, not if you're devoid of children. On that fact the OP is correct.

I'm sure I've said much more than you were interested in reading by this point. I apologize for going on so, I just feel for those who have fallen and feel they keep getting slapped by the hands that should be helping them back up.

[mondo joe]

114. Well, there's post #63, #71, #44.

Would you like me to go on?

For that matter, there's the very title of the thread.

The OP might as well criticize AIDS charities for not addressing cancer.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

140. You've obviously taken on the mission of beating the poster over the head

With your perception of their point, rather than attempt to explore the point they were attempting to make.

To each their own, but I fail to see what good you hope to produce. :shrug:

[mondo joe]

141. Truth and accuracy are good and wortwhile.

Beating up on a very good charity like Habitat is neither.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

143. Fair enough, but how is what you're doing worthwhile?

Honestly, I'm at a loss as to what you're hoping to accomplish.

Are you simply championing Habitat? If so, I can understand that. And yet there are more eloquent and productive ways to do so than repeatedly attacking this OP's opinion, which has been tainted by their personal misfortune.

[mondo joe]

161. Correcting false and misleading statements about Habitat

is its own accomplishment.

Defending Habitat is its own accomplishment. Sorry my eloquence is not to your liking - I can only do what I can.

[shanine]

85. I guess if there was an alternative to the shelters

like an apartment or studio, or room . .that's where you'd be living, right? Would you say, bobbolink, that yes, there's
help for you and others like you, and that there are many, many helpful organizations aiding with this homelessness crisis right now?
:sarcasm:

Or are you hurting and trying to maintain your dignity and tired of having to debate your existence to those that would rather twist your words and meaning? :pals:

[mondo joe]

86. Funny - when I asked if there are other non profits that DO address homelessness

and try to get individuals into housing, the answer SEEMED to be no - though I'm pretty certain that's not the case.

If anyone would like DU to support a charity other than Habitat, it would be reasonable to suggest one.

[bobbolink]

100. You're right, shanine, there are so many ooodles of choices of

dwellings that I'm just overcome with the vapors, and need help in deciding. After all, everyone knows old women can make decisions, yeah?

:rofl:

Thanks for understanding!! I don't get why there is so much obfuscation about this. :shrug: It's just not sexy, like missing votes, or something.

Yes, I'm tired of fighting. Something tells me you've been in this place, yourself. :pals:

It really stinks, does it not?

REally, it should be a simple concept to realize that we all need to come together on this, and see to it that everyone has good and decent living conditions! I mean, how exotic is that concept?

:toast:

[dogday]

84. You bring up valid points that I think should be addressed

As with any organization, sometimes a big shake-up is in order... Write to them with your suggestions and see if you get a response... If you do, I hope you will share with us....

[Giant Robot]

93. More people need to speak up in such human terms

There is a growing awareness of the need of aid to the homeless population and money is starting to come with that, for programs such as shelters, transitional living, and low income residences. But this is a starting point and certainly not any where near a cure for the problem. I suspect if more voices were heard that this could change for the better. This is just a suspicion, and we are far from getting anything going to make a major impact. Yet.

What I want to say now, is more about how the message was delivered. Habitat does a lot of good work, and some crappy work, like most human service agencies. That's the reality of it. They get fleeced and swindled; they have to set strange and authoritarian rules to utilize their minimal resources; they have to pick as best they can who gets what from them. But I do not think setting your tragic situation up against them almost decrying how they have failed you is appropriate either. No they obviously have not helped you at all for the reasons I just mentioned. But they have defined their role in human services and sadly you are not fitting into their definition of a target population. I am sorry for that, but that does not mean they are bad or wrong or that we should withhold support from them. Certainly if anyone wants to withhold support that is clearly their right, but in this case, it would be the same as withholding support from the Humane Society for not helping you as well. It's not what they were created to do.

I will do what I can for you. I will work with the system to change and improve the lives of those I can. And I will send my best wishes out into the universe for you, for what ever that may be worth.

[dysfunctional press]

95. what is it that keeps you from being able to get an aprtment or a roomate?

i'm just curious as to what it is that prevents you from being able to work, and then pay rent on even a studio apartment, or go in as roomates with another person or persons in order to afford said housing?
if an organization existed that was able to place you into an apartment, how much would you expect to have to pay yourself, on a monthly basis- for being able to have a roof over your head?

[truedelphi]

111. People with disabilities sometimes are really hard-pressed

To deal with 1) the high cost of even an apartment in some areas
2) Compatability issues.

LOL I have stayed with my husband partly because having Multiple Chemical Sensitivites - I have feared being homeless if not with him. My body cannot tolerate continual fumes from things like fabric softeners and from verious detergents - so if I ever had to have a roommmate - i'd probably be sunk.

It's a vicious cycle - your disability can keep you from full time employment Your low income keeps you out of thehousing market.

The only GOOD news (AND here I am being ironic) is that mOre and more people are getting Multiple Chemical Sensitivies - so maybe soon the "tipping point" will be reached and air fresheners, fabric softeners, Glade, Lysol etc will be looked on with the same disdain as cigarettes - since they are far more deadly

[dysfunctional press]

112. i'm on permanent & total disability due to a spinal condition...

it went undiagnosed for a number of years, and at age 38 i had to "retire". i had no disability insurance, and my SS disability payment is based on less than 20 full years in the workforce- one company i worked for that would have constituted 12-14% of my SS monies NEVER PAID INTO SOCIAL SECURITY the money that they deducted from my paycheck- they are long gone and bankrupt, and i am SOL as far as that money goes.

but my point is this- i don't think that anybody should expect to be just given a house/apartment just for themselves, for no cost- and i'm not saying that is what the OP wanted- i was just trying to gauge what she expects, and for what cost...

[truedelphi]

118. Sorry to hear about the downside of your life

Yech! And spinal difficulties are among the worst.

"no one should expect to be given"

Why? In Red China - that awful totalitarian place, people are given apartments for the equivalent of $ 80 a month (adjusted to Chinese wages)

Young struggling people are allowed to live in dormitories - even if not students.

We now have chronic homelessness - and I grew up in Chcioago where in the '50 s, 60's and early 70's, a mere 75 cents would get you a cheap hotel room (overnight) for the type of person who is considered the archetypical homeless - the winos, and hobos and such.

Now we have low income people sleeping in their vans and back seats of sedans because even working full time they cannot afford a place.

I had a roommate for awhile (1993) who was from Red China - and even though she owned her own condo in a great neighborhood, held a professional job, had alimony from a well-off husband, fretted about her life here.

"I heard it would be good. No one said it would be hard."

I found considerable irony in that one remark

[dysfunctional press]

122. "given apartments for the eqivalent of $80 a month"

$80 a month is not free- that's what i was getting at- that nobody should expect totally free housing.

in chicago, the cha apartments in places like cabrini green and the robert taylor homes that are now being torn down, i think the public housing apartments, iirc were under $100 month, depending on income level...?

when i was younger, and not making enough to afford a place of my own, i had roomates in order to afford a roof over my head that wasn't my parents'.

[Sapphire Blue]

121. Article 25, Universal Declaration of Human Rights...

Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Article 25:

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

[dysfunctional press]

123. and what does that mean?

the terms are very vague- what exactly is meant by "housing"? are you saying that every person has a right to their own apartment rent free? or does it mean that they are entitled to fair access to housing in accordance to what they can afford?

[MacGregor]

130. I can think of two things.

i'm just curious as to what it is that prevents you from being able to work, and then pay rent on even a studio apartment, or go in as roomates with another person or persons in order to afford said housing?

1. I've been scouring roommates-wanted listings myself, but where I am, no one -- and I mean no one -- is champing at the bit for single women age 30+ as a roommate. I'm 33, and it was nothing short of AMAZING that since I hit 30, unmarried and childless, I practically evaporated like so many red-shirted Star Trek yeomen being beamed down to the planet Certain Doom. And the world wasn't exactly my frickin' oyster before, so I can relate some to how bobbolink is feeling, and by the sounds of it, I have it actually quite good.

I'm still borderline as to whether I can afford to live on my own (but my salary won't go up as rapidly as local rents seem to be), so I least still live at home with my parents. But it sucks severely to feel like you're being punished, like you will lever catch any breaks (societal, governmental, fiscal) because you have the utter nerve -- by good luck/bad luck/personal choice -- to be single, much less a single woman. </personal pity party>

2. In most cases I have encountered, if you want to enter into a roommate situation, rental agreements/applications require that each roommate has income sufficient to cover the rent as if they were renting the unit alone. Which, ahhhh, kinda defeats the purpose of going in on roommate-dom, y'know?

(Of course, failing that, they may give you the option to get a co-signer, but again, if you're a single adult otherwise alone in the world, you're fairly screwed: who do you go to?)

[Dorian Gray]

167. That's a shame....

here in NYC, I have many single 30+ year old friends who share apartments still. People get married later here, and it's somewhat normal to be in an apartment share here. Hell, my friend shares a four bedroom apartment with three other girls, and all of them are between the ages of 31 and 37.

It's somewhat normal here, with apartment prices so high. They each pay $900 a month, which is high, but that beats the $1500 a month they'd have to pay for a studio. And they get two bathrooms, a living room, and a back yard for bbqs on their charcoal grill in the summer!

[MacGregor]

170. Don't I know it.

I'd move to New York in a heartbeat (I swear, I'm a New Yorker trapped in a Southerner's body), part of it for that reason.

My budget for Richmond would probably require roommating with, like, VCU undergrads, and that shit wouldn't fly in both directions: me too old and them too young (and in need of a smack upside the head... and to get off my lawn... and, for the love of all that's holy, turn the damn music down! :P). Unfortunately I'm not confident in my ability to just up and leave Richmond and secure work in NYC that would even allow me to enter a roommate situation. I kinda would like to secure the work first and then move, but that's the Catch-22. Can't afford to stay, can't afford to leave. :(

[Dorian Gray]

171. I hear you!

Good luck with finding out what it is you want to do. I know how blessed in many ways I am living where I do. I also know that it isn't the same everywhere else. And, if it makes you feel better, I'm a 35 year old married woman living in NYC. Most of my married friends moved to the suburbs, so in that way, I'm now the minority. I wouldn't want to raise my kids anywhere else, though! :)

[uppityperson]

99. WRONG! on several things here

Single people in my town get HFH houses. People in my town can volunteer hours at local HFH thrift store also, do not have to be healthy enough to do construction. People have gotten Hfh houses that do NOT have a place to live beyond camping out with someone else, some other family. HFH always needs people and donations to continue to build homes. They are building homes for people in MS that became homeless after Katrina, though, to be absolutely fair, those people may have homes in that they are living in tents or FEMA trailers, but that is not much of a place to live longterm.

Not sure why you say what you say, though I do agree that HFH is not the endall answer for all, but they are a really good group to support.

[Midlodemocrat]

105. HFH is a client of mine and I know their inner workings intimately.

I can't disagree with you strongly enough. I'm sorry for your situation, I truly, truly am, but HFH is almost the anti-welfare organization. Individuals who are selected must put in sweat equity and be able to pay a minimal amount of mortgage in order to get them self-sufficient.

The organization is about giving people back their pride. I don't know off the top of my head and my info on HFH is on another computer, but very few of those selected face eviction or foreclosure. Not that those who are homeless *wouldn't* put the same effort towards these things, I'm not saying that at all, but statistically, a lot of homeless are unemployed and wouldn't be able to pay the mortgage.

No flames from me to you, and as I said, I'm deeply sorry you are currently homeless.

[Bluebear]

106. You live in your car? How horrible for you.

Where do you have internet access, like a library or something?

On another point, isn't HFH more about getting people to be homeOWNERS? I never thought of the organization as being engaged in homeless relief, more in giving people a leg up by letting them own their own homes? Maybe I was mistaken?

[Midlodemocrat]

116. Thank you, Bluebear. You said it better than I did.

Bashing HFH takes the fucking cake. :eyes:

[uppityperson]

109. No organization can do everything. What HFH does is good.

I am sorry that you are homeless. I have been there myself and know that it really sucks. However, saying HFH is wrong for doing the good they do, and much of what you state as HFH fact is just plain wrong also.

I have a friend who is in a HFH home which is quite small and modest, and she is a single woman without kids. Our local HFH allows people to put in hours in their thrift shop if they cannot do carpentry. People who get HFH homes do NOT have "a place to live, just not a big enough place," such as you insinuate. Yes, they may have a place to live but that place may be a tent, or a car, or a couch in someone's apartment or trailer.

Yes, there needs to be more help for homeless, but bashing HFH for doing the good they do is not any help.

[nam78_two]

110. K&R

Thanks for posting. I never knew this aspect of HFH.

I have mostly just worked with local shelters unaffiliated with any larger National org.

[DemReadingDU]

117. thank you for the info

[hedgehog]

119. I read down through the tread, then went back to re-read the OP

I think the OP is trying to point out that HfH doesn't solve everyone's housing problems, which is true. It is dedicated to helping people willing and able to work to get a leg up and own their own home. However, the OP also knocks HfH with phrases such as "the other side of HfH" which imply that HfH is a fraud. I think the OP is correct in pointing out that it is up to us to insist that all people be given decent housing. Starting out by knocking HfH for addressing just one aspect of the problem isn't a good way to win friends and influence people, though. HfH does a good job in meeting its limited mission. We just need more awareness and response to the rest of the problem.

[Stuckinthebush]

120. I just looked at the HFH webpage in my area

There is a requirement that you have the ability to repay a zero percent interest mortgage, and they give guidelines based on family size. The first family size listed is "One". So at least in the Birmingham, AL HFH, being single is allowed.



Here are the selection requirements:

Apply for a Home
A family selection committee made up of volunteers in the community evaluate prospective homeowners using three criteria:
Need for quality, affordable housing
Willingness to partner with Habitat Birmingham
(minimum 300 sweat equity hours and 15 education classes about homeownership)
Ability to repay a zero percent interest mortgage (please see guidelines based on family size and income)

If you think you may qualify please schedule to attend an Application Orientation Workshop. Applications are only distributed at Application Orientation Workshops. You must register for a workshop prior to attending.

There are two ways to register for a workshop:
Call Habitat Birmingham at 205-780-1234, ext. 315
Fill out an "Interest Form" on our website

Someone from Habitat Birmingham will contact you to confirm your registration request. Do not assume that you are automatically registered for a class because you filled out the form - you must receive a confirmation number from Habitat Birmingham.


Year 2005 Guidelines Based on Family Size and Income
Family Size of Minimum Amount of Income Maximum Amount of Income
One $9,850 $23,640
Two $11,250 $27,000
Three $12,650 $30,360
Four $14,075 $33,780
Five $15,200 $36,480
Six $16,325 $39,180
Seven $17,450 $41,880
Eight $18,575 $44,580

[sniffa]

125. and the other, more obvious side of HFH

it's a front to support terrorism.

[yellowcanine]

126. This is like criticizing a fitness trainer for not doing heart bypasses.

If it weren't for Habitat, there would be even MORE homeless people. The best way to deal with homelessness is prevention of it in the first place.

[Sapphire Blue]

127. It's more like the fitness trainer turning away clients who aren't already in good shape.

What exactly is Habitat doing to prevent homelessness? I thought it was a program to help relatively financially secure people to buy homes. What does it do for people who are homeless or one step away from being homeless?

[bobbolink]

128. That, and why aren't there organizations PROVIDING housing for much poorer

folks??

Habitat is the be-all and end-all, and the general public thinks it takes care of people like me, and then blame me because I can't get any place to rent.

But, saying it how it is is the equivalent to some of goring their sacred cow, and they get all defensive.

Your article from the Universal Declaration says it all--everyone deserves to live in a decent place, and to have safety and be free from want.

Simple concept.

So, it's time for LIBERALS to see what's missing, and start going about filling that need.

Simple concept.

[Name removed]

131. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sapphire Blue]

136. There IS an organization; a GOV'T organization. It's called HUD. Problem is it's been gutted.

CORRELATION BETWEEN HISTORIC CUTS TO FEDERAL HOUSING PROGRAMS AND CONTEMPORARY MASS HOMELESSNESS: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2886016


God Bless America
:sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[bobbolink]

139. Thanks for your caring. And understanding.

I won't post here anymore.

The hatred is just too much.

They win.

[QuestionAll...]

144. I've been following this thread and I don't see much hatred...

what I see is you being factually challenged on your OP statements and you don't seem to like that much.

if you consider being challenged as hatred, well, I don't know what else to say.

[Sapphire Blue]

145. One must open one's eyes to see what is right in front of one's face.

[Giant Robot]

146. I don't see how it is wrong to challenge the OP on her

way of presenting her argument or her facts. That seems to be the sentiment I am reading from this. I certainly disagree with how she presented her frustrations with Habitat and being homeless. Habitat is not set up to help her circumstance, and even if they were, they have limited resources to work with. Railing on that agency is pointless for not having enough or not doing what is within their mission.

I don't think anyone on this board is saying they do not think she should have access to adequate housing, or that she should die on the street. I am probably a paycheck away from being homeless myself, and I am too scared to think what that would be like. What I see is the OP being an expression of frustration, fear and anger at the system that brought this all about. Which is where all those emotions and energy should go, to changing the system that brought this about, or at the very least plugging any holes or gaps in resources out there.

But again raging on Habitat is probably not going to accomplish what she wants or needs right now. That is all I really am saying.

[QuestionAll...]

147. abject poverty and homelessness in America is a total disgrace.

I absolutely agree a thousand times over, for all the land of freedom and opportunity talk spouted by the Haves - who continue to suck the life out of the have-nots. It makes me sick.

But as been pointed out in many responses here, should Habitat take the full brunt of that? There may be legititmate reasons to question Habitat's integrity, but the opening poster is a bit off the mark, imho.

[Midlodemocrat]

149. I agree. I don't see any at all. Just challenges to the OP.

which in my experience in dealing with HfH is flat out wrong.

Non profits are established based on the founder's passion. There are 122 foundations listed with the IRS that support housing/shelter initiatives, including HfH.

[mondo joe]

159. We live in a time when dissent is called betrayl. Small wonder that

calling a post in question is deemed hatred.

[yellowcanine]

155. My observation is that the most uncivil responses were yours. So this is a case of

pot kettle black, imo. It is not hatred to disagree with the OP. That is called debate. Heat, kitchens, etc.

[Dorian Gray]

168. What hatred?

a defense of H4H is not hatred for you. People can disagree with your opinion on H4H and not hate you or wish you to suffer. I personally think that your gripe is wrong, but I only wish you the best.

[QuestionAll...]

151. I ask this with no sarcasm...

and what has Habitat got to do with the gutting of HUD? Is there any connection we should know about?

[Giant Robot]

152. Well....

I suppose the gutting of HUD was part of the inspiration shall we say for the creation of Habitat, but that's really about it that I know of.

[QuestionAll...]

153. I don't understand what you mean...

that Habitat was waiting in the wings like a vulture and had something to do with the gutting of HUD, so it could.... what?

[Giant Robot]

154. Um no what I was trying to say was

That since HUD was gutted, or started on a downward trend, that Habitat was created in response to that so that people could have access to affordable homes that would no longer get help from HUD. A lot of non-profits will be created out of a need that exists, is not being addressed, or used to be addressed and now is not by some other entity. My belief is that Habitat was created as a response to the downward spiral of HUD. I hope that was more understandable.

[QuestionAll...]

157. so I still believe Habitat is a good thing.

filling in whatever spot they have to offer for bad letdown things happening in the general social safety net.

so we agree, I think. but the general criticism of Habitat doesn't fit in at all with what you said....

[Giant Robot]

158. I guess I am not sure what you are saying right now

I am speaking about HUD and how non-profits will be created to fill a void they see usually. I made the correlation between HUD's gutting and the creation of Habitat. It would be great if the government could do this, but that is not in the cards right now. Habitat filled a niche for helping people become homeowners, which was once a big part of HUD, and now is a barely funded program. Habitat is not trying to become HUD and help the homeless population or prevent homelessness. Habitat picked a niche that HUD used to do and is filling that void now.

I am not sure what you are saying when you speak of the general criticism of Habitat not fitting with what I am saying.

[QuestionAll...]

160. sorry, I made an error and thought I was responding

to Saph.

btw, I agree with what you are saying here.

[Giant Robot]

162. No worries

:toast:

[Xithras]

164. Um, Habitat has been around since the 1970's.

And they're an international organization, building homes in Asia, Africa, and anywhere that poverty is common. Your suggestion that they were created to counter the decline of HUD is a bit off, in my opinion.

[Giant Robot]

165. They were started in1976 here in the U.S.

So the fact that they are international now has no bearing on their creation, which certainly may have been in relation to changes in HUD. And yes I may certainly be wrong about it's creation in relation to HUD, as I said, it was just my best guess at the time.

[Gormy Cuss]

156. No, the reduction in new housing production created the niche for HfH

In a better world, HUD would be charged with production of sufficient housing from single room occupancy rentals through assisted home ownership programs to assure that everyone had access to safe, affordable shelter. The problem is that HUD does not have the funding nor the current mission statement to do that. Thus, there is unmet need and private organizations like Habitat attempt to address some small portion of that need.

[Midlodemocrat]

150. There are 9,778 organizations listed on Guidestar that support

homelessness as an initiative. Look it up the next time you have a moment. I'm sure there is one there which would help address YOUR needs.

Rather than bashing a group that does good works, how about doing a little homework for yourself?

[mondo joe]

137. Homelessness isn't Habitat's mission, just like AIDS isn't the mission of the

American Heart Association.

They have a particular mission - that's what they're about, and that's what people give to them to support.

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yellowcanine]

148. Anything which helps people own a home helps prevent homelessness, imo.

What HFH essentially does is provide relatively low income people the opportunity to earn equity and obtain a low interest loan. No it does not help the poorest of the poor, but there are many relatively low income people who are one paycheck away from homelessness because of the cost of rental housing. A Habitat house not only is usually more affordable than rent, it also gives low income people equity that they could not get any other way. I do not understand the need of some here to denigrate HFH because they aren't helping everyone who needs help. What single program does?

[Javaman]

129. How about starting an organization to deal with your complaints?

Just a suggestion.

:shrug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

132. There may be local groups that are off the radar

This past month, the group of people from my church who usually volunteer for Habitat instead volunteered for a local (Minneapolis) group called Central City Housing Concern. I'd never heard of them, but they were founded about 25 years ago when a lot of low-income housing was torn down to make way for the Metrodome.

We helped do some interior painting in a building that was being remodeled as single-occupancy apartments.

[mondo joe]

138. The OP has made several factually incorrect statements - that there are NO

organizations addressing homelessness is among them.

[lumberjack_jeff]

135. How about rebuilding together?

http://www.rebuildingtogether.org/main-pages.php?page_id=main/about/mission.php