Why do people do these things? I have a moral dilemma involving a dog.

[jilln]

A few weeks ago I started seeing a Benji-type dog out on the streets when I walked mine. He's much smaller though, about 10 pounds, and has shorter hair. He's wearing a collar but has no tags. And he's not fixed.

Anyway, whenever he saw us he would follow us on our walk. Eventually he started showing up on my porch at walk time, then throughout the day. Of course I ended up letting him in to play with my dogs, and after a while he would scratch the door to be let out and I hoped he would go home.

Then when i would put him out at night he would sit on the porch and still be there in the morning, so of course when it got really cold I ended up keeping him inside overnight. He's now been at my house fulltime for about 3 days. He plays nonstop with my 65-pound dog and is very smart, playful and affectionate (for the first couple days he wouldn't let me touch him). There have been no signs up around the neighborhood looking for him.

I've been asking all the neighbors if they knew where he belonged, and finally today someone told me. So this evening I went over to his house:

Me: Do you have a little tan dog?

Woman who was in the living room watching TV: I don't know.

Me: What do you mean, you don't know?

Woman: I don't live here.

Me: Well is someone who lives here home?

Another woman comes to the door.

Me: Do you have a little tan dog?

New Woman: Um.... well... ummm.... ummmm.... welll........ yeeeeeeeees.

Me: Is he here right now?

New Woman: No, he left about 3 days ago.

Me: Well he comes over to my house sometimes.

New Woman: He's not really mine, he belongs to my brother and I can't keep him in the yard. He digs out under the fence. I don't want to get a ticket. Do you know you can get a ticket for that?

Me: I can sympathize. One of mine does that. But yours doesn't have any tags or I would have brought him back days ago. And he's not fixed. He's probably creating stray puppies all over the place.

New Woman: I keep telling my brother to take him to his apartment and keep him in there.

Me: Well, if I catch him again, do you want me to bring him back?

Woman: Yes.

So now what do I do? They didn't bother to get him a tag, they didn't bother to fix him, he's been away from home for 3 days and they haven't put up signs, and the woman seemed more concerned about getting a ticket than about the dog's safety. She never asked if he was OK.

On the other hand, maybe his tags fell off and the brother is going through a rough time and they really did try to keep him in the yard. However, if the dog keeps escaping maybe you keep him in the house!!! He's way too small to be running around the streets in the cold.

I don't know if I should just take him to a nonkill shelter or if I should bring him back to their house, knowing he will be back at my house later that same day and will again be my responsibility. Or maybe I should fix him and then take him back. Or give him back, but call animal control so they'll go over and talk to the people? The risk with that is they could "give him up" to animal control, who will kill him immediately.

What do you guys think? Any alternatives I'm not thinking of?

[Richard Steele]

1. The dog has already decided that he lives with you.

You could respect his opinion.

[jilln]

12. I already have 3, which is one more than I can really handle sometimes.

The last dog I took in was here for 3 months before I finally found her a place.

[karlrschneider]

25. I know exactly what you mean. We have 3 doggies and a cat,

and we won't keep a pet without having them doctored & fixed which as you well know is darn expensive.
All of ours have been 'accidents', we live in an area where pet dumping is endemic, nearly everyone
around here has taken in at least 1 - and many who can't handle more will shoot strays. I know that sounds cruel but it's no worse than starvation or roadkill both of which are sadly common.

So I don't have an easy answer for you, I just wanted to thank you for being such a good person wanting to do the right thing.

[undeterred]

2. Keep him until you find a good home for him

if you can.

[Suich]

3. That's a tough one.

I'd probably try to talk to the brother.

Good luck! :hi:

[Solly Mack]

4. With the exception of 1, all the animals that have lived with me

I got because other people no longer wanted them, someone was mistreating them ,or they were strays.

So, I'd keep Benji....but that's just me.

[warrior1]

5. Sounds like he found you

Keep him. I'll bet it will be worth in the long run.

[angel823]

6. Ugh

Do you want to keep the dog? If so, just keep him. They know you have the dog. If they want him back, they will come and get him, right?

If not, then I would take him to a no kill shelter. If they show up and want him, tell them where he is.

Just my 2 cents.

[jilln]

15. They actually don't know I have him.

I told her he was NOT at my house right now so I could think more about what to do. Plus it's gonna be really cold tonight and he doesn't need to be plunked back out into their yard.

[flvegan]

44. Wait a minute...

you mean that you LIED to protect this animal? You mean to tell me that you put the welfare and concerns of this animal before the wants and desires of his alleged owners?

You...you...dog thief! Many would toss you to the domestic terrorism ranks, you know.

Others would welcome you to the fold. So...what's his name?

BTW, if there was a BIG FAT FUCKING APPLAUSE SMILIE, I'd be all about posting him/her here.

[jilln]

45. Of course.

And I don't consider myself a thief. He came here of his own free will. When he scratched to go out I let him out. He doesn't scratch to go out anymore.

Oh and the lady did actually tell me his name... as his final indignity, they call him FEO. That's "Ugly" in Spanish. I have a photo of him but no graphics program to make it smaller and post it. But he's not ugly.

[flvegan]

47. Let me ask again...

What's his name? I don't think that his old name matters. What is the endearing name that beckons him when called by you?

Others will consider you a thief, sadly. Fuck them. Send 'em to me if you don't want to have to justify the good that you've done.

Seems that dog needs you. Seems that dog found a way into your heart.

His final indignity would be sending him back to the people that forgot to care about him. Seems that there's someone standing in the way of that, thankfully.

[jilln]

50. Well today I started calling him "Little Guy"

because my dog he plays the most with is Guy, so I can call them into the house at once ;-)

(Big) Guy got his name the same way, obviously!

[flvegan]

54. "Little Guy" sounds like a good fit for the family.

Guy (the big one) sounds like he/she likes the newbie.

Regardless of what happens and how this plays out...big, big applause to you for taking this little fella in. All too many folks would turn a blind eye, for whatever reason. Also, big ups to Guy for embracing Little Guy as part of the pack.

If you decide to keep this Little Guy and you need help with food or vet care, please drop me a PM. I'd love to see what we could do to help you folks out.

[Gloria]

57. If you do take him to the no kill shelter, I would NOT tell them where he is!!

Give the dog a break! He'll either be back with you or he will suffer at their hands. They don't have a clue!

[flvegan]

7. Keep him.

Get him fixed and keep him if you can, if he gets along, if you can afford it, if you want to (lots of "if" questions).

Screw them wanting this dog, this "possession" back. They're not taking care of him. Does he have his shots? Heartworm preventative? Just running the streets, possibly creating unwanted litters. Soon to be hit by a car.

Fuck them. Dog's yours.

[MuseRider]

8. I would keep him

He likes it with you obviously and you take care of him, something he did not get before. He has a doggie friend at your house and that is always nice. It seems that if they can't take any better care of him at the house he will not fare well in an apartment. I know it is probably wrong but I would keep him but I would have him neutered real soon just in case the owner shows up to take him back.

I have been busted here for neutering the 60 or so cats that my neighbor had running all around the countryside so I am leaving and will not be back until very late. If anyone wants to have at me, have fun. :)

This dog is happy with you, enjoy him, you are both blessed.

[LaurenG]

9. You need to talk to flvegan

if he doesn't show up pm him. He'll help you to decide and not feel one bit guilty about it.


edit: Well he showed up as I was tying this. lol

[Sugar Smack]

24. You KNOW it, sweet OB!!!!!!!!

He's the one I'd run to for counsel first!! What a great pooch-lover in that man! :pals: :yourock:

[LaurenG]

30. Yay flvegan!!

and ...:yourock: :pals:

[flvegan]

37. Awww...you and Suge make me blush...

Good to know I'm good for something...

[Sugar Smack]

52. We all NEED someone just like you...

We need someone to look out for the animals. I was involved with Sea Shepherd for 4 years. They did me a world of good. I will never forget those years.

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. Keep the diggy dog. He needs you.

[Uben]

11. A no brainer

...take him to the shelter. If you do not want him, maybe someone else will. These people are not responsible enough to own a dog. I got my dog from a no kill shelter. He is a great companion and very smart.

[jilln]

23. Maybe I should have mentioned...

I live in the city with the 3rd highest euthanasia rate in the country, there is only one decent no-kill shelter around and it's nearly impossible to get a dog in. I think this one has a good chance because he's small and cute and that's what gets adopted most easily.

But they may not take him right now, and being right before Xmas and trips and all, it's a crummy time to have an extra dog around. My office and friends are literally saturated with dogs I found in my neighborhood, so there's virtually no chance of me finding a home for him on my own.

[Gloria]

58. I was in the same boat with Slick--he basically adopted me then I

fed him for 2 weeks and was able to catch him. No room at the no kill shelter. So, he's been my baby now for 4 years.

Have you tried a RESCUE organization???? If you can figure out what kind of dog he is, there is a rescue group for nearly every breed...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. My idiot neighbors in my apartment building were mistreating their cat.

They'd toss him outside in midwinter, in subzero cold, because he meowed too much (he just wanted attention). He kept showing up at my door, so I kept him. When one of these dumbass girls finally asked if I'd seen him lately (I don't think she'd been looking very hard), I lied and said I hadn't -- no way was I going to let that poor thing go back to those nitwits for more neglect. He had ear mites and worms; we took him to the vet, got him cleaned up and neutered. This was in 1974. He lived with me, happily, I'm sure, until 1995.

You already know what to do.

[jilln]

18. That's basically how I got one of my dogs

and it was the best decision and best theft of my life ;-)

But I'm not keeping this one. I have an ample supply of dogs already.

[sam sarrha]

53. yea.. we faced the same delima.. found a website to advertize pets for new homes..

[Divernan]

49. I "liberated" a neglected neighbor's kitten from Florida to PA back in the 60's

The trashy neighbors' outdoor/carport cat had kittens and this one little black one kept wandering over to our house looking for food and attention. When we moved, we just brought her along and she was our beloved pet for many years. These neighbors were such creeps that if I'd asked their permission they would have either said no or demanded money.

[flvegan]

56. You fucking thief...

Liberation? Is that what you call it? Most might call it stealing.

*sarcasm off*

Bless you. 'Tis a true liberation. Big respect.

[williesgirl]

14. I would get him fixed and keep him. Seems to fit well in your family.

Bet they'll never look for him. If they wanted him, they'd have put up signs and at least asked about his well being.

[allalone]

16. it seems they are trying to ditch the dog

ask the lady to write a paper for you giving you the dog. He has picked you to be his person.
save him.

[MichiganVote]

17. Sounds like a great pet for kids. Keep him, clean him up and find a good home

with kids. The dog is running away from these people. Probably not being fed. If the brother really wanted the pet or could have him, he'd have done something.

Might as well take care of the dog and find a good home. You'll be bothered forever if you give the dog back to people who obviously don't want him.

[fairfaxvadem]

19. If he adjusted to you that quickly, and you like the little fella...

Keep him. I just would not bring him back to that house. They clearly do not care about the dog.

An old roommate of mine brought a cat home from the humane society one weekend without telling me, saying she could find him a home. It's very hard to place adult cats, and sure enough, she didn't. But she was a kook and the cat figured that out in a short time, found my bedroom and never went near her again. I had him for over 12 years.

Sometimes these things just happen.

Good luck! You'll do the right thing, whatever it turns out to be.

[jumpoffdaplanet]

20. My neighbor's dog adopted me a few years ago

And this is a good home. She was well taken care of and loved.

Now she hates to get into a car, and my neighbor does lots of dog events (obedience, agility).

So I'd take care of this dog and after a while, the dog didn't want to leave.

Finally when she chews through a gate to get back here, the neighbor and I realized the dog had made a choice.

Now of course this was decided mutally that I'd keep the dog.

The thing is, sometimes a dog decides and if you are lucky it works out.

I'd see if the brother would let you adopt the dog. Offer $50. I bet he takes it.

[shadowknows69]

21. Not in upstate NY by any chance are you?

My wife and I are looking. Particularly for a cast away doggie that needs a loving home.

[jilln]

26. Aw, I wish...

I'm sure you'll find one. Are you near the Lollypop Farm shelter?

[EFerrari]

22. Maybe give yourself some time to think it all the way through.

Can't hurt and in the mean time, you know he's safe. :)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

27. Maybe you should talk to the brother? In such a litigious society I would not fix

him without permission of the dog's owner. You might have a lawsuit on your hands. After you talk to the brother, I think you would also have a better take on the situation.

[FooFootheSnoo]

28. That's hard

I can understand how hard it is to take in additional animals when you already have your hands full. If you can, get the animal fixed and it's shots. Also get the county tags for the animal. Save the receipts. If the neighbors show up wanting the dog back, show them the receipts for the tags and veterinary work and state that the dog is yours. I'm sure they won't give you much trouble after that. Maybe you can find a good home, but it may take several months.

[redacted]

29. Don't give him back. He is telling you he does not want to be there.

It's a bad situation for him -- otherwise he wouldn't be with you.

He KNOWS how to get back "home". Dogs naturally have an impeccable sense of direction.

Small dogs are much easier to adopt out than large ones. Try calling your local humane society or small dog rescue. Our local humane society has a waiting list for small dogs.

And whatever you do, when you surrender him -- LIE. Say some guy sold him to you for 10 bucks or something. Don't say he's a foundling -- they might try to find the original owners.

[Bigmack]

31. Is there a hair dye safe for dogs?

If you ditch the tags, and if this dog was neutered and had a dye job, you could keep it or give it to a good home, and the morans who neglected him won't get him back.

Your moral reservations are reasonable, but how would you feel if you don't act, and then find the dog dead alongside a road somewhere?

[jumpoffdaplanet]

55. Yep

Try this link, second answer:

http://www.faqs.org/qa/qa-3951.html

[some guy]

32. In your case,

I would take the dog to the vet, get him nuetered, up-to-date on shots, etc. and then try to find him a good home.

I think he's adopted you, and like some of the other posters here, I'd vote for keeping him, except you don't really want to do that, so finding him a good home is the second best choice.

:hug: for you for caring.

[allalone]

33. small dogs go fast

at shelters. and benji type dogs are very popular. so if you have to take him to a nokill shelter,
don't worry. The hardest to get adopted are big black dogs. I feel bad for them.

[Clark2008]

75. I'm a good girl, then.

I adopted a big black dog from the pound!

Here she is at eight months or so with her human (my son - who actually picked her out):

[lonestarnot]

34. Keep the dog and tell God and the woman he died. You saw him last as

a sail dog on 5th and Brown.

[PsN2Wind]

35. My wife and I volunteer at an animal adoption facility.

We are required by law in Pima County AZ to keep an animal for 3 days and then we can assume the owner has relinquished rights to the animal. That is also the period the animal control keeps strays before they are euthanized.
I would take him to the no-kill facility and see if they will take him in. Small dogs are usually quite easy to place. If they can't take him in, maybe they have a foster program, as our organization does, where volunteers keep the animals off-site until an adoption can be arranged.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[sweetheart]

36. clear up the legals, if you're gonna steal the dog

I don't care what 'doggie' loves, somebody owns that dog, and you
do have a score to settle in the property rights world, perhaps
offering to pay some money for 'just walk away'.

Sometimes, when you think someone's looking after your dog,
in a possible future where life pressures take you away for a while,
would you want someone to 'keep' him.

I would write up a formal letter to the dog's owner asking formal
permission to keep the dog, to pay for the dog, or asking that a tag
and fencing be adequate. Nothing worse than a ticket for your dog
getting out the gate, its what dogs do by their nature, and its a
crime in our society. Anybody can wrap a dog, they're generally
very bored with the hard hearted monkey race, and a sympathetic
one is such a difference.

There could be another side to this story, is all i'm saying, and
that other side could be really not pleased if it found about
a dog thief... or that side will be pleased as shit the dog has a
happy safe home since its unwanted... no harm in clarity.

[jilln]

39. Yeah, I hear ya, and the poster above who said similar...

But in the past I've had really bad experiences trying that. One dog who was chained up behind a garage for YEARS, skin and bones, no food on weekends and probably literally out of her mind, pacing back and forth all day, and when I offered to buy the dog all of a sudden they "loved" her and took her away to chain her up somewhere I couldn't find her.

Another neighbor kept an awesome dog in a tiny pen and never cleaned out the poop. He knew I liked the dog and saw me several times petting him through the fence, etc. I called animal control and told them and had them put in the report that I wanted the dog if the man gave him up. Animal control went and the man said HE would take the dog into the shelter, and animal control didn't call me. When I called to find out the result, the dog had already been killed at the shelter.

I'm leaning towards trying to talk to the brother, and then maybe saying that "if" I find him again I kinda want to keep him and see what they say. If they say yes problem solved, he goes to the shelter. If they say no, I'll decide what to do at that point.

And while I see what you mean, animals are not property to me and I don't consider them to be his "owners".

[flvegan]

40. Dog thief? Owns?

Shut up, would ya?

Property rights my ass. The poster has gone above and beyond to determine the proper place for this dog.

I do agree with you that possibly, in the last scenario, for legality, to ask for a "receipt" for the dog is a good idea.

But then...I ain't one to ask, nor do I give a shit about a receipt.

"Dog Thief" checking in...

[DemoDemoCratCrat]

41. Yes, you are vulnerable

I don't know how it is in other states but here (AZ) it's a serious crime (at least a Class 6 felony) to keep a found dog. All dogs are assumed to be the property of someone. Basically, you have 48 hours to notify the authorities.

So a bill of sale, even a poorly written one, would be a good idea.

[Warpy]

38. I'd respect the dog's wishes

unless they sued, and I sincerely doubt a bunch of space cadets like that would sue. They're probably relieved the dog is gone. Dogs need care, you know, and it's obvious they weren't interested beyond putting a collar on him so they could grab him if need be.

If the guy who owns the dog comes to your house, have a talk with him. The dog won't be there, of course. Then follow your conscience about a no kill shelter versus letting him go back to what is neglect, at best. If the owner comes by looking for the dog, maybe the neglect isn't as bad as you think it is. Maybe if he knows you're watching, the neglect won't continue. In any case, it sounds like the owner is living in a "no pets" apartment and his sister really doesn't want the dog.

If there were kids involved, it might be a different story. Kids can be educated.

[MadMaddie]

42. Do you like him? He seems to have adopted the real family

he wants.

My Maddie was spirited away from some bad owners....and she is our baby.

They obviously don't want to take the precautions to keep him in the yard, he probably wasn't getting much attention...so he said I am leaving...he did...he found you....and he likes you and his potential pack...

Good Luck!!

[suston96]

43. ...your heart will tell you what to do.

You have already done so much. You made me cry. I'm a big help....

[roody]

46. The dog should be neutered immediately.

Is there a low cost spay and neuter program in your city?

[jilln]

48. Yes, but that's kind of another problem

It takes 2-3 weeks to get an appointment, which means I have to keep him all that time, make arrangements over Xmas, etc., and the best chances to get him into the no-kill shelter are on weekend afternoons so I was hoping to try this weekend.

[Samantha]

51. It appears this dog has already adopted you

so you have no decision to make.

This doggie obviously has excellent judgment in choice of owners.

[michaz]

59. Obviously the dog is

smarter than the humans involved with his care! It appears he knows a dog lover when he sees one. Do yourself and the dog a favor, keep the little fellow. You will feel good about it and so will he. Good luck to you and your new addition.

[jilln]

60. UPDATE

I went back to the dog's house this morning and asked if they would be willing to give up the dog to a good home. The woman agreed immediately, and said her son (now apparently it's her son's dog, not her brother's) would agree.

So in a few minutes I'm gonna head out to the no-kill shelter with him and hope they take him. Send all your thoughts of good luck my way... I REALLY need them to take him.

[sweetheart]

73. what a happy ending

Your love for that dog was a miracle; what a gift.

[judaspriestess]

61. best wishes on getting lil guy in to the shelter

if not, sounds like big guy has found a friend. Shouldn't his feelings come into play? If my dogs said, momma, can we keep him? I coulnd't say no to my babies. :)

Good luck and may your angels be with you every step of the way.

[StarTurtle]

62. If the shelter can't take him, try Petfinder.com.

As I remember, they take ads from individuals as well as shelters. My dog was posted there, and I was on my way to get her before the all-volunteer humane society who put her info up had completely pried her from the hands of the psychos who were "taking care" of her. (Not exactly on topic, but today is our third anniversary.)

I know you'll help Benji find a loving home. You're one of the people who gives human beings a good name. :hug:

[jilln]

64. Well, they said they will take him... but three weeks from now

They had a dog with distemper so they can't allow any dogs in who haven't had their shots for at least 3 weeks. The lady did suggest I try petfinder, I'm just a little nervous about screening the people myself.

In any case, now I just have to figure out what to do with him over the holidays until they take him!

[riderinthestorm]

69. I'm a farm owner in the Midwest. I'll take him if you are nearby

I only have one dog at the moment - I just lost my 18 year old Jack Russell and wouldn't mind getting another. PM me if you are close.

Regardless I'd be happy to help you out with the cost of neutering and vaccinating Little Guy if you decide to keep him as well.

You are an angel for what you have done, are doing for him! O8)

[Habibi]

70. Well, that's great news!

Most of the "no-kill" shelters in my area aren't formal shelters but a network of foster homes. Are you able to care for Little Guy over the holidays? (Psst, it seems like there are one or two folks on this thread who would be interested in him!)

[FlaGranny]

63. If I were able to take care of him

I'd take him to the shelter, and put a hold on him. If the owners don't show up to bail him out and pay their fine, and no one else adopts him, then they'll call you and you'll save him. I did that with a cat I found once, and after the cat was kept for the number of days required and spayed, they called me and I went in an adopted her.

Edit: Oh, and another thought, if you decide to do it the way I suggested, you don't have to pay for his shots and neutering, just the regular adoption fee.

[michaz]

65. Where are you located?

I guess you are not in NYS. Where are you?

[jilln]

72. Texas (nt)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

66. Edited: I Just Saw Your Update.

Thank you for doing the right thing and asking their approval first. To not have done so would've been criminal. I'm ashamed and disgusted with the many falsely morally superior suggestions that you just simply keep the dog or bring it to a shelter without the owner's consent that I've found in this thread.

But I'm quite pleased you did the right thing. You are on your way to finding the dog a better home and didn't have to screw somebody in the process. It worked out well for everyone and I'm proud of you for your follow through.

[FlaGranny]

71. I'm sorry, but taking him

to a shelter is the RIGHT thing to do. The owners obviously were letting the dog run loose day and night. Illegal in most places and showing a total lack of care. If owners lose an animal they care about, the first thing they will do is contact all the shelters in the area. Then they could have picked the animal up with a well-deserved fine. Or, he could report the owners to the SPCA and then they COULD be fined and/or have the animal taken away from them. The OP was under no obligation to track down or contact the owners in the first place. It's a no-brainer that any dog you see running free constantly is not cared for and is in danger from being hit by a car and fights with other animals, not to mention being a nuisance to the neighborhood.

[Lisa0825]

74. I agree.

If a dog gets lost and the owner makes NO attempts to find him (putting up signs, knocking on doors, ad in the paper, etc), then they have no claim to the dog.

If you left your jacket in the airport and never checked with the lost and found to see if it was there, would you press charges when you found someone wearing it? Furthermore, this is a living being, and if they didn't give a shit enough to frantically search for their "beloved pet," then the pet deserves a much better home.

[judaspriestess]

67. forget that

get the dog fixed, thats what the no kill shelter will do. and don't give him back to those ignorant undeserving poor excuses of human beings, like they even give a shit. They would probably rather see the dog dead.

[michaz]

68. If you can find someone that wants him and you approve

of the person or family, we can get a transport set up to get the dog to the people or person. It is done frequently and there are groups that do this. It is done in legs of so many miles per person. They just keep meeting up and switching the dog over until he gets to where he is going.