They really think the Iraq fiasco is our fault

[LuckyTheDog]

Just an observation.

It is becoming apparent to me that, the worse Iraq gets, the more some people defend Bush. I am increasingly hearing on talk radio and reading on the Web stuff about how the "media turned America against the war" or that the military is "hamstrung" by rules of engagement intended to satisfy those all-powerful "liberals" (who, as we all know, always get their way, right?).

They seem to really believe that Iraq would have gone well if it weren't for the "unpatriotic liberals" who sent out bad vibes by questioning the war. The fact that GW sent troops in without a plan, and that the war was not even necessary, does not compute. Nope, it's all the fault of the liberals and the media who dared to raise questions -- and in doing that, undermined the whole effort.

They HONESTLY believe that.

Luckily, such people are becoming fewer in number. But that kind of mental disconnect from reality seems to explain why probably 25% of the American public will, no matter what, continue to approve of the job Bush is doing.

[Not_Giving_Up]

1. I was watching C-Span today...

They were taking calls asking what grade you would give the 109th Congress. Most people, regardless of party, gave them a failing grade. Every now and then, there would be a real winner on the Republican line. I heard one lady say that she gives * 100% and that anything that didn't get done was held up by the Democrats.

I sat there thinking, "Can she be serious? Things that the Dems really wanted to stop still got through."

Yes, there are some out there who still truly believe that Dubya is the best thing since sliced bread, and that if he fails to accomplish his goals, his opponents are at fault, and they are therefore evil. Of course, based on the study that was released, there is medication out there for people like her. (I'm referring to the study that shows Bush supporters tend to be mentally ill...can't seem to find that thread right now!)

[azurnoir]

2. IMHO, they do not believe it, they're payed to say it

and they are payed very well. The only exception might be for those that actually served, or 1 in a million. This excuse dates back to the '70's. Libruls are why we lost Vietnam yadda, yadda, yadda.

[Ken Burch]

3. Ah yes, the "stabbed in the back" meme...

Which actually goes back to the relentless propaganda line started by the German military against the newly established democratic government that decided to do the sensible thing and sign the Treaty of Versailles, ending World War I. The German military advised the civilians to accept the treaty, assuring them it was the best deal Germany could get. As soon as the civilian government did so, the German military immediately began screaming that the civilians had "stabbed Germany in the back" by signing the treaty rather than continuing the war. This began the era of political chaos that led to the rise of Hitler.

GOP propagandists brought it back to great effect after the Fall of Saigon.

We shoula all assume it will be used again if the Iraq situation resolves itself as it now appears likely to.

[Marr]

5. Even the ones that say it for free don't believe it.

Not really. That's why they're so angry. The things they want to believe clash with the things they see.

[ninkasi]

4. Not everybody who is seriously

psychotic is in a mental institution. These people sound like they really, really need, but are not getting, intensive therapy, and possibly some anti-psychotic meds. If not that, then their I.Q. is probably lower than room temperature.

[KT2000]

12. That's for sure

listening to callers to C-Span, one can see that the psychotics have been recruited for the repub party.

One woman said that bush was called by God to settle the mideast problems. When Brian Lamb asked how that could be, she said it was because bush is a Texan. A real cowboy because he grew up where cowboys and cowgirls live! Also - as governor he fixed the poorly performing state agencies.

Another guy said that he supported bush but that bush has not been able to express why were are fighting this war because he has a problem with speaking.!!!!

During the recruitment they must advise people to call in to national shows or something. There is no shortage of confused thinking in the US.
Foreign nations hear this too.

[boston bean]

17. laughing my ass off at this one....

"Another guy said that he supported bush but that bush has not been able to express why were are fighting this war because he has a problem with speaking.!!!!"

I can't stop laughing, it tickled my funny bone!!!

[tkmorris]

6. Hell, they think Vietnam is our fault

They think that we could have won there if we'd just tried a little harder, stayed the course a bit longer.

There is a core 25-30% that would NEVER leave Iraq. Ever. They'd stay there until every last person were dead, either the Iraqi's or our troops. Then they'd just as likely argue to nuke it on the way out.

They are insane. They cannot be reasoned with, compromised with, proven wrong, or silenced. They just keep banging those war drums and they will not stop. Like little warmongering American Terminators.

[sandnsea]

7. Nothing new

That's why the Democrats who were bamboozled by the swiftboaters were so frustrating, it was the same crew who will always believe we could have won in Vietnam if our troops weren't hamstrung, if we'd had a different battle plan, if there were no protests, bla bla bla. I could never understand any Democrat giving anything they said a moment's consideration. They're a delusional bunch and sooner or later we've got to confront them on it. We can't keep letting Republican lies become the collective memory of our history.

[Az]

8. Of course

True believers are going to look every where but in their own closets to find whats wrong. The fact that not everyone in the world was on their side is cause for them to blame. And we have been pretty vocal about our opposition. So yeah... we are going to be blamed by them. And if the Dems don't do something we can take pride in its going to stick.

[Vexatious Ape]

9. I'm hearing the same nonsense.

Just to get my "hate on" or out of boredom while at work, I tune into right wing radio. (we lost AAR here in Atlanta) A lot of the callers are comparing the Iraq War to WW2 with rants like. "Back in WW2 we didn't worry about collateral damage--we bombed them into the stone age. Now the lib's in the liberal media will start screaming bloody murder any time a civilian gets killed."

It boggles the mind. Never mind the fact that in WW2 we were fighting fascist, and imperialist aggressors--who's the fascist aggressor now? Who's the imperialist now?

There is nothing new here. During the first world war a young Adolf Hitler blamed the news media for the German defeat. And Tricky Dick Nixon blamed the media for the Vietnam quagmire.

It's amazing--they ran the White House, Congress, Senate, and the Pentagon but it was the whacked out American hating left wingers that screwed it all up.

[leftofthedial]

10. remember, half of all people are below average

half of them are WAY below average

27% support bush's war. That's the WAY below average and the aristocracy who are getting richer by the minute and for whom death and chaos are measures of income.

[Clintonista2]

11. I've noticed the term

"liberals hate america" is being used less and less nowadays. It doesnt have the same effect anymore, so the new tactic is to blame "liberal brainwashing" for shifting public support. Remember the days when "traitor" and "terrorists support democrats" actually got a response? It's now a nationwide conservative search for the flavour of the month.

[wtmusic]

13. Denial

Anything but admit they were wrong.

[pa28]

14. Can Republicans ever take ownership of their miserable failures?

I doubted the wisdom of this war before it started and, like the rest of us, I had my patriotism questioned.

Now they are actually saying it's our fault?

Despite our complaints about the conduct of the war and lack of a victory plan Bush got everything he wanted: the men, the funding, the equipment. Now, even an incredibly forgiving electorate has recognized the depth of Republican stupidity and chased them out of town.

Another point for Republicans to consider; blaming Democrats is only going to inflame the increasing groundswell for impeachment. In fact, it could put impeachment hearings "on the table" as a matter of political necessity. Do they really want to do that?

Seriously, these people need to put down the Kool-aid and take a good long look in the mirror. Scales, claws, beady black eyes and all.

[Lexingtonian]

15. The Party of Personal Responsibility manifests itself yet again!

Don't bother arguing with the True Believers. They're part of an occultism that gives their mean and pathetic little lives some grandeur, and you have to know the dogmas of the cult to understand it. They believe that killing more brown people can only lead to good. They believe in the secret omnipotence of their "willpower", i.e. desire manifested in violence, loud screams, bizarre prayers (see the FR Prayer thread), raving pledges and manifestos, and other ritual acts. And anything that screws up their "willpower"- bad news, reality, Unbelief- is to blame for their magical powers failing.

Just listen to Bush, Rummie, and Big Dick talk endlessly about "determination", "perseverance", "not losing will to fight", and so on. It's the thing they believe is the secret of their success. It's why they have never needed realistic planning and such- if the key to victory lies within your own mind then suggestions on a scrap of paper can only be distractions.

Empirical reality, however, is not kind to this approach to problems.

[no_hypocrisy]

16. The Nazi Party in Germany started as a bunch of war veterans who formed

the Freikorps who believed that the War was lost due to the betrayal of not only their leaders and certain influential people who lost their resolve. This is nothing new.

[Skidmore]

18. Freikers, eh?

That's pretty eerie.

[no_hypocrisy]

19. Freikers, freepers, what's the difference? n/t

[JVS]

21. The freikorps actually had served in a war, that's the difference

;-)

[no_hypocrisy]

22. You're right. Prussian tradition of the miltary versus U.S. chickenhawks. n/t

[maine_raptor]

20. In the words of Mr. T :

"I pity the fool"

[jarab]

23. I think the worse it gets ...

the louder the few remaining supporters scream. Their volume has simply turned up, not their numbers.
...O...