I admit I feel a little guilty passing up the Salvation Army Kettle

[dsc]

The Salvation Army does a lot of good. I used to ring the bell when I was in high school. I then would help deliver the food baskets they supplied to local families. The looks on people's faces when they got the baskets was so amazing. A coworker of mine has a brother who is sober thanks to the Salvation Army. I know what the gift of Sobriety is. I hate the fact that I can't support them now.

But I also know that when I needed sobriety I wouldn't have gotten it from them. I know that not only would they not help gays and lesbians they also won't hire them. They even lobby against local civil rights laws so they can continue their bigotted ways. They have a right to practice their religion but they don't have a right to spend my money to discriminate against me. That is equally true of money I volunteer to give and that which I pay in taxes.

I give now through my local church and other community funds. I still feel a little guilty passing the kettle by. Old habits die hard. When they repent of the sin of discrimination I will be among the first in line to give them money. They do so much good, too bad it is not for me.

[don954]

1. I stoped giving to them when they refused a Wiccan family in

their Fort Worth mission who were displaced due to a fire, saying they only help xians...

[dsc]

4. Our local one didn't do that

that goodness. Sadly they are equal opportunity bigots.

[grasswire]

6. I can't believe they said they only help Christians

Their whole reason for existence is evangelism -- to convert "sinners" to Christ -- and they do that by providing assistance to needy people in order to show people what Christ taught. I know they discriminate in hiring, but I don't believe they have said they only help Christians. Where did this happen?

[Cosmocat]

35. Actually ... I have heard ...

that a pretty astoundingly low percentage of the money they pull in actually gets used for charitable work ...

Somewhere in the teens, if I am correct ...

[formercia]

2. Thanks for the info

People can believe whatever they want but when it comes to the point that they actively engage in discrimination it crosses the line.

[terrya]

3. I agree with you.

The Salvation Army is supposed to be a Christian organization. When they begin to act like real Christians and not practice bigotry and discrimination, then they'll get donations from me again.

I feel sort of guilty when I pass those kettles. But I'm not going to be a hypocrite about them. Not as a gay man.

[applegrove]

5. I'm doing a kettle. I look at the list of things and know they are helping

a shitload of people. Walking the walk that some liberals will not even walk....They are down there on the ground. And yes they help gay people just as they would any other with their good works in actuality as opposed to in theory. I wouldn't join a church that hurt gay people but I'll ring a bell so that many people..all poor..get the help they need day in and day out but especially at the end of a month when the cubboard is bare. Trust me - the poor gay people don't shun the clothes shops or the turkeys. One of those silly little realities that maketh this silly little world we live in. One with unnessary hate which leads to unneccesary divisions. I refuse to be divided from people who practice a good part of what I can only preach. Helping the poor: that is where it begins and ends for me on this count.

[grasswire]

11. good for you

The good they do is undeniable. Food boxes, mentoring ex-offenders, rehab, providing emergency rent and utility assistance, even providing greyhound bus tickets to people who are stranded without funds, etc., etc., etc.

I believe the amount of misinformation circulating about the organization should be straightened out.

[applegrove]

13. I see all that as the plans of political GOP operatives who very much wanted

to separate churches from Liberals. Cause they have been such strong coalitions in the past: labour laws, temperance when men drinking starved working class families, civil rights, etc. I refuse to play along.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. You're saying prohibition was a good thing?

:crazy:

[dsc]

17. that is just a flat out lie

Sorry, but I know several gay people who were denied help by the Salvation Army. It is just an out and out lie to say they are willing to help gay people. And they sure don't hire them in any capacity.

[applegrove]

21. Sorry but that is not what I have seen. Perhaps me being in Canada

makes a difference. I don't know all the background. I just know what I have seen.

[dsc]

27. that might have to do with the fact that Canada bans such discrimination

and doesn't have a religious exemption.

[applegrove]

28. I don't have money to give this christmas. All I can do to keep busy and lend a hand

is to raise a few thousand dollars this way. This christmas it is my way. Sorry if you disagree. Last year I could donate to a worthy cause and I did. I've run into this before and I refuse to let some conservative cabal and the policies they've highlighted as wedges tell me whether I can support the local food bank and such - which happen to be Sally Ann.

[Rageneau]

26. Well said.

[Not Me]

7. Our church is part of a community based foodbank

which does not discriminate or set eligibility requirements. If someone shows up at any of the participating churches, the pantry is open to them. And it's staff completely with volunteers, so all donations go to the program.

I have no problems passing by the bellringers.

[UTUSN]

8. Neh, no guilt here. Anybody bigoted at any Dem constituent sub-group is dead to me n/t

[TaleWgnDg]

9. I not only walk by the red Christmas kettle of donations, but I also

.

I not only walk by the red Christmas kettle of donations, but I also inform the bell-ringer as to why I refuse to donate to The Salvation Army.

I do so politely and in civil tones.

I tell the bell ringer that The Salvation Army is a religion that discriminates against GLBTs. I also tell them that our constitution indicates a separation of church and state, meaning that The Salvation Army should not be receiving my federal or state tax dollar to further its discriminate against GLBTs. I inform that person that I will uphold their right to discriminate against GLBTs since they may do so in law u/ our first amendment, but not w/ my money either my private money or my tax (public) money. George W. Bush's "faith-based initiatives" policy is wrong and will be proved wrong in the future.

I've been somewhat surprised that many Salvation Army bell-ringers are unaware of these facts.

.

[Maat]

29. This is what I do.

It is based upon my experiences as a social worker (in SoCal, 1993-2000). Even back then, they were discriminating against my GLBT clients, taking public money (our county's experiment - supposedly with a SECULAR arm of the charity), AND attempting to convert every client who went there for services.

So, I walk by, and I tell them why I won't be donating TO THEM.

[Brazenly Liberal]

10. I don't feel the least bit guilty passing them up.

I give what I can to organizations that don't foster bigotry.

Sobriety is a wonderful thing, but when it comes with the strings SA puts on it, it's not a gift.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

12. I always give & then feel guilty for giving.

But they do do a lot of good. In my defense, I stopped giving large amounts (100 dollars) after they started their anti-gay agenda. Now I just give 5 bucks or so.

[Glorfindel]

14. Not me...to hell with them, I say. They do more harm than good

as far as I'm concerned. I pass by PLENTY of other "worthwhile" organizations, too, including the VFW. There are charitable organizations worthy of my consideration, and they get it, but I won't support bigots in any way, shape, or form.

[Crowdance]

15. charitynavigator.org lists many alternatives

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm

They research the charities they list so that you can choose one that meets your own criteria. Myself, I like to ensure that the largest portion possible of my dollar is going to programs and not administrative expense. Religious charities, like the Salvation Army, are not transparent, so they're not listed here. But there are plenty of relief and food charities on the list that don't discriminate against others for who they are or what religion they practice.

[karlrschneider]

16. I pass it without guilt...both for the reasons you mentioned and because

I see how the high-ranking "Majors" and such live in very expensive homes, drive luxury cars, etc.

[Mugu]

36. Are you sure that you haven't confused the SA with the United Way?

I remember the scandals at the UW several years ago and the outrageous salaries that they paid. But my understanding was that even the top guy at the SA made less than $20K a year.


Regards,

Mugu

[karlrschneider]

37. I don't know how much they're paid in cash but I know about the one I

mentioned...he lives 4 doors from my mom in a $200,000+ house and has a new Caddy every year.

[no_hypocrisy]

18. Share your fortune in another way.

I go to the supermarket and buy a complete Christmas dinner include dessert and donate it to Eva's Kitchen (in Paterson, NJ) so at least one other family can celebrate a Christmas meal.

Or volunteer at a kitchen on Christmas morning and day for the homeless.

Salvation Army don't own the franchise of charity at Christmas.

[driver8]

22. That is a great idea.

My wife has declared that she will never give the Salvation Army one more red cent.

I'm sure our donations will be happily accepted elsewhere.

[AlCzervik]

19. i don't, i donate to the local food pantry and twice a month i dial for dollars

for them. The food pantry is not interested in what god you worship or don't and what your sexuality is.

[dogday]

20. There is no salvation in turning away poor and hungry

because they don't conform to your beliefs... What would Jesus do? I will never again donate to them unless they change their policy... All people must be accepted.....

[Katzenjammer]

23. I used to put at least a dollar into every kettle I passed, season-long. No more.

When I realised how bigoted they are under the veneer, that was the end. Now I pass them by without a qualm.

I note with interest that the bell ringers and musicians used to be SA staff...now they're merely casual labor. One wonders whether their volunteer staff disappeared because they couldn't stomach the bigotry either.

[mondo joe]

24. I only feel bad because I have not been asked directly to give. I'd LOVE to explain

- in a very polite way - why I won't support them.

[Annces]

25. I was surprised to hear they discriminate

Very sad.

[Jawja]

30. I pass the kettle by and don't

feel guilty one bit.

[Zhade]

31. I don't. At all.

And I'm the type of guy who gives and hates people knowing (I don't do it for show).

[skipos]

32. There are other charities that deserve the money more, as they aren't bigots like SA.

nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. I don't feel guilty about not donating. It's their fault I don't donate... Not mine.

I sometimes want to stop and explain why I won't donate, but I don't because the bell ringer probably doesn't even know the SA discriminates against Gays or cares. I use to NEVER pass up a bucket, but I will not donate to any organization that discriminates.