Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Chain Reaction the movie, now a reality..... coming to a

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 08:08 AM
Original message
Chain Reaction the movie, now a reality..... coming to a
small town near you....

http://hytechapps.com/
“I always believed that water held the solution to the world's energy problems. I have made it my life's work and our company's mission to solve that problem.”
Denny Klein

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. Explanation? A chain reaction invoving Water? ....n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Well, perhaps the movie was a little overboard with the
title...... however, the idea that we can derive a usable fuel from water at a reasonable price, (using electrolysis not fission of fusion) appears to have become a reality. Please view the video and you will have a thorough understanding as to what is up with this concept.

http://hytechapps.com/video/hta05.mov
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Thanks for the brief explanation! I hope to view it. Have you
seen An Inconvenient Truth? I haven't yet, but I think it would make a great Christmas present for some friends and relatives...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. No, I haven't had the pleasure of seeing President Gore's
fine effort, but it is on my list. There are several other videos at the site that will help you understand what this guy has developed, I hope it is as "real" as the global warming that it may help reduce
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Thanks again! ....n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. Scam.
--IMM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Which is why the Pentagon is interested in having a Hummer
set up with this system and Congress had the man come to D.C. Pretty solid scam, must be. Makes me think of another scam, someday they are going to sell water in bottles and people are going to pay a couple of bucks for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. The Pentagon will spend money on a scam? I'm shocked!
Edited on Sun Dec-10-06 09:44 AM by IMModerate
A cursory knowledge of physics will instruct you that there is no free energy. To seperate the hydrogen from the oxygen in the water molecule takes at least as much energy as it gives back. Where does that energy come from? We'll have to burn oil or coal or use nuclear energy to boil water to run a turbine to create the electricity to electrolyze the water. In a more enlightened scheme, we could use wind or solar, or some other renewable energy, but the fact remains, we have to put at least as much energy into the system as we hope to get out of it.

The only advantage of this is that electricity cannot be easily stored, so this is a way of storing the energy, but keep in mind that both oxygen and hydrogen gasses are extremely corrosive, and prospects for long term safe storage introduce an expensive limitation.

Don't be fooled by the fact that the Pentagon is in on it. They spent millions studying use of psychics in warfare.

The water fuel gas is not even a new scam. It's reintroduced every few years. Here are some of the recent discussions at James Randi's site of this particular version. The energy from water and other free energy scams have been with us for more than a century. You'd think that one of them would pan out.

FIRE WATER
Incredible! We are apparently immersed in a scientifically-ignorant culture in which the media can’t figure out the simplest of what would have been a grade-school science project for my generation. Go to www.randi.org/media/WaterFuel.wmv and be appalled at what “inventor” Denny Klein is selling to FOX26 News in Clearwater, Florida, via their excited reporter Craig Patrick, as a system that will run a car for 100 miles “fueled” solely by four ounces of water! In the video, a hydrogen torch using “HHO technology” that Klein demonstrates, is described by ridiculous expressions such as, “hotter than the surface of the Sun,” and we’re told that it takes “only seconds to literally burn a hole through charcoal.” Duh! Charcoal burns, dummy!


The FOX video shows Klein holding the tip of the welder between his fingers, which, they marvel, “remains cool to the touch.” Duh! again. Any of this sort of torch acts the same. The tip is cool because the compressed gas, as it decompresses and exits, makes the metal tip cold. It’s only when the mixed gases – hydrogen and oxygen, in this case – burn, that heat is produced, and that happens just beyond the tip. WHERE’S THE MIRACLE HERE? Clearwater’s FOX TV tells us, “No other gas will do this." Wrong, juvenile, and naïve. Add, stupid.

We’re told, in the FOX video, that “people still have trouble believing him” when Klein tells them that his fuel is water. Small wonder. That water has to first be broken down into hydrogen and oxygen through a method known as electrolysis. That process was discovered back in the 1800s, and it uses more energy than can be gained from it by burning the two components – that’s called the Conservation of Energy law, and it hasn’t yet been repealed. Cars that run “on water” have been re-invented every few years. Recently there was Steven Horvath in Australia, who sold a lot of stock to losers, Henry Garrett in Texas – in 1935 – and Stanley Meyer, who was convicted of fraud in 1996. Andrija Puharich – who also “discovered” Uri Geller! – Archie Blue, Bob Boyce, Carl Cella, Charles H. Garrett, Daniel Dingel, Hector Pierre Vaes, Nakamatsu Yoshiro, Sam Leslie Leach, Stanley Meyer, and scores of others, all came up with this same insane idea, and all fell on their collective nose.
http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-05/052606action.html#i3


So what appears to be new from “inventor” Denny Klein, was already done back in 1966, by a Dr. William A. Rhodes and it received US patent #3,262,872…

But, it turns out that there was an Australian named Yull Brown who in 1973 "invented" what he called, “Brown's Gas” which is obtained by simply electrolyzing water and mixing together the two parts of hydrogen and one part of oxygen that are the result, rather than conducting the two gases to separate tanks for compression and storage, as is usually done. That is just what Klein is doing. No known difference exists between the many claimed varieties of this mixture, which is used in regular 2-tank oxy-hydrogen torches to attain very high temperatures. The already-mixed gas is also known by various trade names such as Aquygen, Di-Hydroxy, Green Gas, HHO gas (as we’ve seen), Hydroxy, Klein gas (named for Dennis Klein), and Watergas.
http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-06/060906just.html#i3


So, are you planning to be one of Klein's investors? :shrug:

--IMM

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Nope.... since HHO is entirely different from Brown's gas, I
plan to build my own unit.


http://www.waterfuelconverters.com/
An Introduction to the Gases

In General, What is Brown's Gas?

In General, What is Rhodes Gas?

In General, What is Oxy-Hydrogen?

In General, What is HHO?

Properties

Brown's Gas

Rhodes Gas

Oxy-Hydrogen

HHO: For More Information See (1) How is Brown's Gas and HHO Related?, and (2) Properties Brown's Gas


http://www.waterfuelconverters.com/WhatisHHO.html
What is HHO?

HHO is a conceptual framework dealing with hydrogen and oxygen bonding in a mixed and pressurized gaseous state. Pressurized hydrogen and oxygen mixtures orignionate with Yull Brown and his invention of Brown's Gas. HHO is a new concept whereas Brown's Gas has long been considered to contain varying isomers and allotropes of hydrogen and oxygen. The origional notion proposed by Yull Brown was that a gaseous mixture of pressurized hydrogen and oxygen contains 36 varying isomers and allotropes. HHO proposes a novel concept of a "magnecular bond", which is different than a "molecular bond". A "magnecule" is consistent with the definition of an isomer.

How is Brown's Gas and HHO Practically Related?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. And your point?
If you are just doing this as a put on, I apologize for not seeing the gag.

From the site you linked:
In no way can electrolysis be used to produce energy. During any conversion of energy, there is a loss of energy. The production of Brown's Gas, Rhodes Gas, Oxy-Hydrogen, and HHO is done via electrolysis therefore the energy contained within each gas is less than the energy used to create it.
http://www.waterfuelconverters.com/ElectrolysisisNotanEnergySource.html


If you're serious you must be put to the ultimate test. Here it is:


--IMM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I'm sure your posts and attitude will greatly impede the progress
Edited on Sun Dec-10-06 03:57 PM by 4MoronicYears
being made in this area.... not.

http://www.waterfuelconverters.com/AQuickBreakdownofAutomotiveFuelEnhancementSystems.html
A maximum gas mileage improvement is not directly related to the quantity of Brown's Gas used! An Increases in MPG is directly related to the decrease in the quantity of fuel injected into the cylinders. This is specifically why air/fuel compensation circuitry is required to offset a vehicles oxygen sensors, which is the best method of decreasing fuel consumption. In consideration of this approximately 12 liters of Brown's Gas per hour is more than enough to change the point of optimal stoichiometry allowing for a significant decrease in quantity of fuel consumed per revolution of the IC engine.

And if that isn't enough... the Europeans seem to have a handle on it, but they might need your BS meter as well.


http://www.citymayors.com/made4cities/hydrogen_bus.html
In seven of the participating cities, the hydrogen will be produced at the filling stations themselves. In Madrid and Stuttgart, two steam reformers are being installed. Once complete, they will produce hydrogen from natural gas. In five other cities, filling stations are being outfitted with electrolysis equipment. The equipment will primarily use ‘green’ electricity from sources of renewable energy in order to produce the necessary amounts of hydrogen by splitting water into its component elements.

Reykjavik in Iceland provides the perfect location for this system: Because of the island’s geology, the citizens of Iceland already produce nearly all of their electricity at hydroelectric and geothermal power plants. The hydrogen produced by electrolysis will allow them to end their dependence on imported oil to fuel their vehicles in the future.

Water power will also be the source of energy used to produce hydrogen through electrolysis in Stockholm. The electricity for ‘Hamburg hydrogen’ will be produced by wind power plants that take advantage of the strong winds blowing through coastal regions. Barcelona will use solar energy, and Amsterdam will turn to an incineration plant to produce the electricity required by the electrolysis.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Hydrogen from renewable resources makes sense.
Edited on Sun Dec-10-06 08:39 PM by IMModerate
I'm not sure what benefits there are to carrying around the oxygen, since that is freely available. Burning less carbon is also a benefit to the environment, so I'm for that.

My main concern here is that people might think of water as a fuel. It's not. I still don't think there are any efficiencies added by using the Brown's gas. In the long run I am for using hydrogen as a fuel, as the technical limitations are overcome.

On edit:
There is nothing new in these pages. The water fuel makes some unsupported claims for the H and O gasses that says there are allotropic and isometric forms. They say it is "theorized." What could they be? Atomic oxygen is very energetic but extremely corrosive and dangerous. And then there is ozone, O3, which may have a slight energy advantage, remembering that the energy must added to the system.

The other page talks about Mercedes vehicles that use fuel cells, a technology that goes back over 150 years, but due to technological limitations has found limited practical use. I'm all for technological progress, but I don't see anything new here. I just don't want people getting the idea that water is an energy source.

--IMM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Porcupine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. The whole "hydrogen economy" meme is a scam
designed to distract people from actual solutions while profits are made. As long as we are waiting for technological miracles in 1)hydrogen storage 2)hydrogen production 3)fuel cell cost 4)infrastructure replacement 5)whatever else I'm missing. We are not implementing solutions that are practicable.

We should be replacing private vehicles with public transit systems and parcel delivery improvements. We should be insulating and rebuilding every house in the industrial world for conservation and efficiency. We should be producing diesel cars & all light trucks and vans should be diesel so we can run them on biodiesel in an emergency. We should be producing mass quantities of hybrids that could be used for taxis.

Instead we dick around with hydrogen which costs more to produce, store and use than any other solution. A solution that is deliberately NOT implementable.

:rant:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
7. This guy was on my local news channel.
Certainly would like to see more of this and other means of energies applied to our products other than oil, oil, oil. Then our sons and daughters wouldn't have to die for a lie.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. A relative of mine.... said that he saw a (I think) a Mercedez
commercial that intimated the likelyhood (sp) that our grandchildren may drive cars that use water as a fuel. There seems to be something afoot here, and this gas that this man has developed, Hygyagen, HHO, certainly has some unreal characteristics....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Hygyagen -- another scam. See my post #10.
"There's a sucker born every minute." -P.T. Barnum

--IMM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 12th 2024, 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC