Movement pumps up Jesus' manly side

[kurth]

December 7, 2006
Manliness is next to godliness
By Jenny Jarvie and Stephanie Simon, Times Staff Writers

NASHVILLE — The strobe lights pulse and the air vibrates to a killer rock beat. Giant screens show mayhem and gross-out pranks: a car wreck, a sucker punch, a flabby (and naked) rear end, sealed with duct tape. Brad Stine runs onstage in ripped blue jeans, his shirt untucked, his long hair shaggy. He's a stand-up comic by trade, but he's here today as an evangelist, on a mission to build up a new Christian man — one profanity at a time. "It's the wuss-ification of America that's getting us!" screeches Stine, 46. A moment later he adds a fervent: "Thank you, Lord, for our testosterone!"

It's an apt anthem for a contrarian movement gaining momentum on the fringes of Christianity. In daybreak fraternity meetings and weekend paintball wars, in wilderness retreats and X-rated chats about lust, thousands of Christian men are reaching for more forceful, more rugged expressions of their faith. Stine's daylong revival meeting, which he calls "GodMen," is cruder than most. But it's built around the same theory as the other experimental forums: Traditional church worship is emasculating. Hold hands with strangers? Sing love songs to Jesus? No wonder pews across America hold far more women than men, Stine says. Factor in the pressure to be a "Christian nice guy" — no cussing, no confrontation, in tune with the wife's emotions — and it's amazing men keep the faith at all.

"We know men are uncomfortable in church," says the Rev. Kraig Wall, 52, who pastors a small church in Franklin, Tenn. — and is at GodMen to research ways to reach the husbands of his congregation. His conclusion: "The syrup and the sticky stuff is holding us down." John Eldredge, a seminal writer for the movement, goes further in "Wild At Heart," his bestselling book. "Christianity, as it currently exists, has done some terrible things to men," he writes. Men "believe that God put them on earth to be a good boy." Cue up the GodMen house band, which opens the revival with a thrashing challenge to good boys: "Forget the yin and the yang / I'll take the boom and the bang…. / Don't need in touch with my feminine side! / All I want is my testosterone high."

The 200 men in the crowd clap stiffly. Stine races through a frenetic stand-up routine, drawing laughs with his rants against liberals, atheists and the politically correct. Then Christian radio host Paul Coughlin, author of "No More Christian Nice Guy," takes the stage. His backdrop: a series of wanted posters featuring one Jesus of Nazareth. "Jesus was a very bad Christian," Coughlin declares. After all, he says, the Son of God trashed a temple and even used profanity — or the New Testament equivalent — when he called Herod "that fox." "The idea of Jesus as meek and mild is as fictitious as anything in Dan Brown's 'Da Vinci Code,' " says Coughlin, 40...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-godmen7dec07,0,5040895.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&track=crosspromo

-----------------------------------

Yep, the only question for REAL Christian HE-MEN is: Do we invade Syria or Iran next?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. Jeez, on 'roids? awesome.

[More Than A Feeling]

2. Toxic.

Obsessing about their insecurity won't make it go away. Perceived loss of privilege is not justification for an identity movement when the privilege itself is illegitimate.

[Donnachaidh]

3. The Village People used stereotypes too

It's frightening when men buy into this *wussification* jargon. Since when did wanting peace equal castration? No one ever questioned the fact that Ghandi had *quite a set*, if you catch my drift.

[RobertDevereaux]

4. Oh the endless varieties of insanity...

...in the human species!

[undeterred]

5. Maybe they can have sniper class instead of church.

Killing is manly. :sarcasm:

[mcscajun]

8. Not too far off from some sentiments in the article...

Stine argues that the genteel facade of a Christian nice guy inhibits introspection and substitutes cliches for spiritual growth. GodMen is his attempt to encourage men to get real. His speakers admit to masturbation and adultery. A workshop called "Training the Penis" encourages men to talk openly about temptation and bond with guys who share their struggles.

Such honesty, Stine contends, molds better, more godly men than a typical Sunday service.

"We want to force you out of the safe places that have passed for spirituality," Stine says. "Maybe worship could be hanging out with a bunch of guys, admitting we like blowing crap up."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-godmen7dec07,0,5040895.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&track=crosspromo

[undeterred]

There was a young man on the CBS morning show today

who was talking about his training as a sniper. He watches people for days, sometimes with their friends and families, and then he kills them from a distance without a word. He is just doing his job, acting on orders. It doesn't occur to him to question why. He doesn't get emotionally involved.

It gave me chills.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. LOL!

[Warren DeMontague]

54. So "manly men" attend a workshop called "Training the penis" with a bunch of other guys?

Sorry, that sounds more like homoerotic S&M than anything I've ever heard of going on down in the Castro. Hey guys.... Whatever works!

[QuestionAll...]

62. multiple the fishes for the hungry? nah... new jock jesus will

multiple the missiles.

[mcscajun]

6. Ugh. Brad Stine again.

This guy annoys me no end; now, he's going to try and go nationwide with this garbage.

And take a look at the photo in the article, showing Stine in front of his "GodMen: When Faith Gets Dangerous" logo/motto:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-godmen7dec07_j81h4znc,0,5501901.photo

For anyone still unfamiliar with the self-styled "America's Conservative Comedian", read all about him here:
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/040809fa_fact

[Kerrytravelers]

51. Conservative Comedian?

Like the "comedy writers" on the new faux news take of the Daily Show- complete wit lack of humor?

[mcscajun]

55. If you have a strong stomach, and your ears haven't bled lately...

...you can catch him periodically on XM Satellite Radio's Comedy Channel 151. He doesn't give his audience a chance to breathe, much less laugh. His misogynist, libertarian-ish philosophy and his overwhelming religiosity come through loud and clear (mostly loud) in a fast-paced, non-stop harangue. How anyone with a few functioning brain cells left finds him in the least bit funny is way beyond my understanding.

[Kerrytravelers]

57. I don't think my stomach, head or ears can take it!

Thanks for sacrificing your heath to keep the rest of us informed! :)

[smirkymonkey]

7. "No More Christian Nice Guy"???

Uh...isn't that kind of the point of Christianity?

This isn't a religion, it's a hate movement.

[omega minimo]

10. Orwell 1984 "Two Minutes Hate"

[smalll]

12. Agreed.

One thing that struck me was this wacko said that Jesus "trashed a temple" and uses that to promote his idea that assholery and Christianity should go hand in hand. Um yes, Jesus "trashed a temple" -- that was the main SIN he committed in his lifetime, a sin he repented for! (As well as I can remember the Bible.)

[Kerrytravelers]

58. The actual teachings of Jesus, whether one believes him to be the Son of God,

or even whether or not one believes in God, weren't so full of hate. The actual teachings were about peace, love, forgiveness and respect.


Funny how the fundie fruitcakes don't seem to grasp that concept.

[Warpy]

9. Oh, great. Another pseudo religious guy worshipping his own dick

Just what we need, right? Now he wants the rest of us to worship it.

Didn't the Penis Keepers already do that shtik?

[krispos42]

11. Rambo Jesus

made ya look!

[Richard Steele]

27. WAWJBACI?

[krispos42]

28. "Who's ass would Jesus bust a cap in?"

I did NOT look that up, so if I'm wrong, correct me.

If I'm right, :rofl:

[Richard Steele]

31. Bingo! nm

[MadHound]

13. Iron John meets Jesus out in the 'burbs. Yeah, this is a surefire recipie for success.

Sadly, it will appeal to those men who are insecure in their manhood. The same crowd that relies on Hummers, NASCAR, wife abuse and guns to pump up their flagging manliness will eat this shit up and ask for more. This is the same crowd that pumped up the Promise Keepers a decade ago, and the same crowd who are willing to send other people over to an illegal, immoral war, but not go themselves. And sadly, this same group will pump up hate and intolerance and war, all to massage their flagging male ego. Pitiful, sad, and a damn shame. A man isn't an out of control dumbass high on testoterone and intolerance, ripping around promoting endless war and violence. It is these sorts of boys who give men a bad name.

And what's really funny is that if any of these so called men were put into a situation where the actual qualities that they celebrate, strength, courage, endurance, etc. were actually required, they would fail dismally. For it is obvious by their over compensation on this matter that do not have these qualities, hence the need to project their lack onto a man who is known as the Prince of Peace.

So instead, out of their lack, and out of their insecurity, they feel the need to project this onto their Lord, and remake him over in their fantasy image:

Sad, pathetic, and it would even be pitiful if it weren't for the fact that these fools in all their insecurtiy are a threat to the peace, stability and well being of our country.

[ulysses]

16. heh - beat me to the Rob't Bly reference.

:D

[omega minimo]

14. This is....

Forget the yin and the yang
I'll take the boom and the bang
Don't need in touch with my feminine side!
All I want is my testosterone high.


:rofl:

[DeSwiss]

17. Blessed are the peacemakers.... ah.. the Colt Peacemakers®

[ISUGRADIA]

18. great cartoon and so appropriate

[Donnachaidh]

22. give that Jesus a few years and a lot of beers

and he'll be looking like the cable guy. :sarcasm:

[Itchinjim]

19. "Godmen"?

"Thank you, Lord, for our testosterone!"?

Do I detect some unresolved sexual orientation issues here?

[mitchum]

20. Who Would Jesus Bitchslap? or "Eat me, this my body!"...

Yep, the Nazarene was just a burping, farting, ass-scratching, big belt buckle-wearing reg'lar kinda guy

[terrya]

21. I'm guessing that "Jesus hated fags" is part of this message.

:eyes:

[Gelliebeans]

46. You are so right about their warped message

I think I just threw up in my mouth.

[EstimatedProphet]

23. Are they following Jesus or Keh'less?

What part of 'Blessed are the meek' do they not get?

[mc jazz]

24. faulting their theology

I know these guys, they can be faulted even on basic theology
Jesus was not a Christian, let alone a bad one. Do they think he was not a very spiritual man?
A bad guy might trash a temple for all the wrong reasons, but the traditional view is he was standing up for a higher principle, that is worldly money making going on in the temple
That makes Jesus a 'bad man' only in the eyes of people who didn't get this, really he was a good man who acted boldly, presumably his disciples thought this made him good anyway

As for the trashing of yin and yang, it's obvious they don't want to see a balance between the sexes. This is danger ground from another theological angle. The ego is told what it wants to hear while the focus should be on 'the other', the spiritual
the sugary, honey stuff they don't like has always been understood as essential spiritual experience. In centuries past choirs and vigils, long prayers were this kind of thing
Be careful not to deny the holy spirit, GodMen

My theory is most people see this stuff and it takes no time at all to process the information and file it under 'nutty irrelevance'. I used to think this but now am more interested in how to engage these type of people, they have like many men self-worth issues. I wonder if extreme self-denial and extreme egotism lead to terrorism and fascism respectively. The middle spiritual ground, which women are gifted at, tells men they are ok as they are

'fear not the ego, nor love it. If you fear it, it will gain mastery over you. If you love it, it will swallow and paralyse you'

[omega minimo]

52. Join them in "Training the Penis"?

"I used to think this but now am more interested in how to engage these type of people, they have like many men self-worth issues."

mcscajun  Response to Reply #5
8. "A workshop called "Training the Penis" encourages men to talk openly about temptation and bond with guys who share their struggles."






"The ego is told what it wants to hear while the focus should be on 'the other', the spiritual the sugary, honey stuff they don't like has always been understood as essential spiritual experience."

Well put.

[PassingFair]

25. "Christian Radio Host Coughlin"

Now THAT sounds creepy.

Anyone heard of the "original" Father Coughlin? He built a "shrine" outside of Detroit.

He started out sane and went completely BONKERS.
HUGE Hitler sympathizer and anti-semite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin

[SharonAnn]

33. Yes, he was truly awful. Gave Catholics (and christians) reason to practice intolerance.

[applegrove]

26. They hate the female message of Jesus. LOVE & Caring

[BoneDaddy]

47. Dont turn this into masculine vs feminine

This may be an example of the negative masculine, but don't oversimplify it by painting the feminine as superior. The positive masculine is just as much about love and caring as is the positive feminine, just as the negative feminine is just as dangerous as this shit.

[omega minimo]

50. Don't bully. That's what the Jesus Jocks are doing.

The Christ spirit is arguably more Yin than Yang. If we met Jesus, he probably kicked ass the way an aikido master does, rather than a Rambo.

The Church has been called "The Bride" of Christ. These boneheads want a divorce.

:banghead: HELL YEAH!!! :headbang:

[BoneDaddy]

64. whose bullying?

I am pointing out the obvious. This gender hate is so hypocritical and plastic.

[applegrove]

61. You are correct. I generalized. But you do known that some testosterone

is responsible for most of the wars in the world. Women don't typically do this shit. One can say that if you embrace 'testosterone' you also need to pay attention to the dark side of it. Is that okay?

[BoneDaddy]

63. Puh-lease

enough of the testoterone bullshit.

[Bluebear]

29. Take charge: At his revival, Brad Stine asks men, “Are you ready to grab your sword?"

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. Jesus in a jockstrap?

The picture escapes the best efforts of my imagination.

[Giant Robot]

32. Wow...just....wow

I really have no words to give to this one. Usually I try to find something intelligent and witty to add but...I mean...wow.

Nope. Not even anything snarky is coming to mind.

Wow. Well, um, I guess I'll just end this with a question:

Anyone think that the "GodMen" have ever read a Bible?

[bloom]

35. I think that they read it

Only they read it looking for those parts that support their ideas.

Somewhere in there Jesus apparently said something about a sword - and they latch onto it and interpret it as they wish.


I listened to a couple of them once at a house party. It was so weird - I took notes.


One of the things one of them said was "The unsaved are dead already" - and that is how they justify things like the Iraq Occupation/war.

They were really big on the Jesus and sword thing. Jesus is supposedly loving people with a sword. Doesn't make any sense to me - but that's what they said.

Having groups of them who buy into this - supports their illusions.

[TangoCharlie]

34. The next revival ...

... may be Andrew Dice Clay's Million Man March?

I just hope this stays on the fringes of civilization. Very strange indeed.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

37. I wonder how they re-interpret that pesky Sermon On The Mount stuff

especially the "blessed are the meek" part.

[Porcupine]

38. What!? No Strippers!?! Still wimps for Jesus.

hell at burning man there are women walking around nude or at least painted for free. How can Xtianity compete?

You're not going to get a male, macho, christian revival until a guy can count on getting at least a handjob from a pretty lady, at church, while watching the game, on a sunday. Said pretty lady NOT being his wife. Admitidly I'm stealing the idea from Robert H. Heinlein but hey.

Love thy neighbor as thyself.
:sarcasm:-neccesary I guess.

[tavalon]

41. Next year I am going to make it back there

One year I went to The Republic of Fremont and got a passport. They wanted me to draw my picture on it - in crayon. I'm not particularly artistic so I did a simple line drawing of a blue eyed, red nosed and red lipped thing, then went back to my camp and recreated it on my body. Didn't want to not match my passport. I still have that passport. Good memories. Hmmmm, Bible Camp or Burning Man, which one to go to? Not even a question.

[WindRavenX]

39. yeah so, this is kinda terrifying to me

Goddamn.

Jesus was probably about 4'11'' 140ish and NOT WHITE.

[Initech]

40. Yikes...

[Jeffersons Ghost]

42. ...

:puke:

[nicknameless]

43. .

:puke:

[eridani]

44. Expect a redacted version of the New Testament soon

No Sermon on the Mount, obviously.

[ftr23532]

45. This is very consistent with the powerful "Fellowship Foundation"

http://www.harpers.org/JesusPlusNothing.html?pg=1">Check it out

...
To the Family, Jesus is not just a name; he is also a real man. “An awesome guy,” a Family employee named Terry told the brothers over breakfast one morning. “He excelled in every activity. He was a great teacher, sure, but he was also a real guy's guy. He would have made an excellent athlete.”
...

And here's the fun think about the Fellowship Foundation: It caters to the DC elites, and has done so, in an underground fashion, for decades. It also seems to promote a Machiavellian form of theology, including a "Hitler Concept", and and is just http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2894588">scary all around. Yay!

[Blue_Tires]

48. Jesus: Pimpin' hoes and blowin' da weed since 27 B.C.E.

:eyes:

[JohnLocke]

49. What about Matthew 5: "Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the land"?

[NMMNG]

53. Just what we need

Men with a God given right to be violent. :puke:

[DarkTirade]

56. Of course, one thing that I've always found to be ironic...

is that the religious right always portrays Jesus as a skinny white guy. When in fact, he was a middle eastern man who was a carpenter BEFORE they had power tools. I'd imagine he'd be pretty damn burly. :)
That, and he went around with long hair, a beard and sandals according to all of their representations of him. Yet they look down on people with long hair, beards and sandals.

[DrunkenMaster]

59. Homoerotic Jesus!

Awesome! With all this manly back slappin' and sweat, you KNOW there will be some hot Ted Haggard-style Xtian-man-on-Xtian-man action! Break out the lube, boys, Jesus is gonna make ya say "Amen"!

[Marr]

60. Hmm...