Felonious Monk: What's The Deal With The Dalai Lama? (Mickey Z.)

[Tace]

Mickey Z. -- World News Trust

Dec. 10, 2006 -- Here's the scene: I'm in my local health food store when my eyes are drawn to the cover of the latest issue of New York Yoga magazine. Smiling at me is none other than the Dalai Lama. Inside, "His Holiness" spouts boilerplate platitudes like, "If we do love our enemies, we shall cease to have enemies, and wouldn't the world be a much happier place if we could all be friends?" Let's be honest here, the same exact line, if spoken by a ten-year-old child, might elicit a patronizing smile.

Also in this article, the Tibetan leader was asked how he was able to "deal with the Chinese who had taken so much from his people." His response was pure Dalai: "We may be different on the outside; but on the inside, we are all the same. We all seek happiness and an end to suffering."

Here's what I'm wondering: Who, exactly, designated the Dalai Lama as a conduit of wisdom... and why? And while we're at it, let's put to rest the myth that the Dalai Lama is an innocent bystander and his fellow Tibetans are all pacifists.

We can start by going way back to a Jan. 25, 1997, piece in the Chicago Tribune entitled "The CIA's secret war in Tibet." This uncommon bit of corporate media candor declared that, "Little about the CIA's skullduggery in the Himalayas is a real secret anymore except maybe to the U.S. taxpayers who bankrolled it." Make that: U.S. taxpayers and the entertainment world's financial elite who are suckered in by the Dalai Lama's little boy grin, esoteric lectures, and pacific persona.

(Side note: We can also put to the rest the myth that the public would wake up if the corporate media published the truth. It's been nearly a decade since the Tribune article and Mr. Lama is more popular than ever.)

more

http://www.worldnewstrust.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=726

[TahitiNut]

1. Cynicism is a lousy 'religion.'

:shrug:

[JVS]

2. Fuck Tibet, free Quebec!

[bluerum]

3. Way back to 1997?! Whoa,,,, the wayback machine is in high gear.

How old are you 16?

The Buddhist's have been around a while.

[MADem]

11. Uh, the CT article was written then, the relationship with the CIA goes back many, many decades

Since the fifties, actually.

And if you think it only happnes in AMERICA, there are such folks as, I kid you not, NEO-Buddhists:

http://www.friendsoftibet.org/databank/hhdlgeneral/hhdlg54.html

Gaya: With less than two weeks left for the beginning of the Kalchakra Pooja, the most important religious ritual of the Mahayana sect of traditional Buddhists, the Bodh Gaya-based Ambedkarites, better known as neo-Buddhists, have stepped up the anti-Dalai Lama campaign and printed material is being distributed against the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan government in exile led by His Holiness.

Earlier, the neo-Buddhists demanded expulsion of the Dalai Lama and Karmapa, the two Tibetan spiritual leaders enjoying Indian hospitality.

The two-page printed material in Hindi captioned "Bharat ki bhoomi par gair desh ki sarkar (alien government on Indian soil), questions the very logic behind the decision to allow Dalai Lama to run what was, according to the material being distributed in Bodh Gaya, a "CIA-sponsored show" from the Indian soil.

The Tibetan government in exile, besides receiving American aid to the tune of $107 million per annum, was also being extended financial and other assistance by the CIA in an allegedly questionable manner, said the pamphlet. More importantly, the pamphlet questioned the constitutional validity of the Tibetan government in exile being run from the Indian soil. ....

[bluerum]

13. I am sure that the CIA has had a hand in trying to corrupt everything

including moms blessed apple pie.

My sense is that the CIA could give a rats ass about Buddhism and the Dali Lama. Their beef is with China, Afghanistan and Pakistan and greater regional control.

Buddhism, in existence since around the 5th century BC, will probably be around long after the CIA evaporates.

[xchrom]

4. ...

:eyes:

[MADem]

5. That popping sound we hear is the noise an idealistic head makes when it explodes, I reckon

This is some harsh rhetoric!!!!!

....In 1959, when the Dalai Lama packed up his riches and escaped into neighboring India, the CIA set up and trained an army of Tibetan contras. Potential recruits were asked only one, rather un-Zen-like question by Air Force pilots working with the Agency: "Do you want to kill Chinese?" The guerrillas were actually trained on U.S. soil and then air-dropped into Tibet by what the Tribune calls, "American pilots who would later carry out operations in Laos and Cambodia during the Vietnam War."

Yeah, those guys.

So, how did His Holiness and His Posse manage such paradoxical behavior? Lend an ear to what Jamyang Norbu, a prominent Tibetan intellectual, informed the Tribune: "For years, the only way Tibetans could get a hearing in the world's capitals was to emphasize our spirituality and helplessness. Tibetans who pick up rifles don't fit into the romantic image we've built up in the Westerner's heads."

And it works. If you don't believe me, ask R.E.M. lead singer Michael Stipe. He believes the Tibetans have "done it peacefully, without raising swords. No matter what hardship these people were under, they would not raise a hand against the enemy."

Wilson's characterization in Workers World presents a slightly different perspective: "The prevalence of anti-communism as a near religion in the United States has made it easy to sell slave masters as humanitarians. The Dalai Lama is not much different from the former slave owners of the Confederate South."

While the Chicago Tribune claimed that the U. S. government's support for Tibet's spiritual contras ended in the 1970s, former CIA agent Ralph McGehee told Workers World that the Agency was "a prime mover behind the ... 1990s campaign promoting the cause of the Dalai Lama and Tibetan independence." McGehee cites the Dalai Lama's eldest brother, a businessman named Gyalo Thondup, as the key player in this operation.

"Violence is unpredictable," the Dalai Lama announced last year, before adding: "In the case of Afghanistan, perhaps there's something positive. In Iraq, it's too early to tell." He confessed to having conflicted feelings over the U.S. invasion of Iraq, before declaring, "history would decide."

Uh... hello Dalai, but most of us have already decided. ....

[Radical Activist]

16. Its no surprise that

there were Tibetans who wanted to fight against the Chinese. Do you have evidence that a young Dali Lama approved of them doing so? There is a difference, unless you argue that all Tibetans are under absolute control.

[MADem]

20. Look at the links downthread in my other posting, and look at the second link in this thread

The DL's BROTHER was running a CIA front group.

The DL makes a few comments about the nature of war, Saddam Hussein's tough job as a leader, and he's all over the map when it comes to China. Where once he was all for the CIA training troops and helping push back the commies, now he's an advocate of "autonomy" under a Chinese government. It's no wonder his followers are, shall we say, a bit flummoxed--that's a substantial difference. Of course, it could be the US purse strings are closing, and we have less interest in throwing millions at him, so he's been advised to make the deal that he CAN, not the deal he may or may not like.

I have no special insight into this issue, I do think it's a good discussion topic; we can all learn a little something.
Another interesting article:
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1979275&C=asiapac
China Accuses Dalai Lama of CIA Links
...In the name of ‘organizing armed troops to fight their way back into Tibet’, he collaborated with the Indian military and American CIA to organize the ‘Indian Tibetan special border troops’," the commentary said without elaborating.
The CIA trained up to 400 Tibetan exiles at military bases in Colorado, Okinawa and Guam after the Dalai Lama fled into exile as part of a U.S.-funded guerrilla war against China, which occupied Tibet in 1950, the Chicago Tribune reported in 1997.

The guerrillas were parachuted back into Tibet where they waged an unsuccessful campaign against the Communists. American involvement ended in 1968 before detente between the two giants.
The commentary accused the Dalai Lama, a Nobel peace laureate, of building up a rebel army in Nepal, and setting up offices and organizations abroad that have fanned separatism.
"What he pursues is a swindle and nothing stands between his ‘high-level autonomy’ and ‘Tibetan independence’," it said.

A spokesman for the Tibetan government in exile, which is headquartered in northern India, insisted the "Middle Way" remained the best policy to resolve the Tibetan issue.
"It is unfortunate that the People’s Daily has questioned the sincerity of His Holiness the Dalai Lama in proposing the Middle Way approach to resolve the vexed issue of Tibet," said spokesman Thubten Samphel......The diatribe complicates talks between Beijing and the Dalai Lama’s envoys which resumed in 2002. Shedding light on the secretive talks, a Chinese government official said in May the Dalai Lama’s envoys raised the issue of Greater Tibet which China cannot accept.....

Here's an article by a guy with gen-u-wine "progressive" credentials, and he doesn't seem to think the whole issue is so cut-n-dried either--apparently those Tibetan monks could be vicious assholes, even during the time of this 'saintly' DL:

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth


...Torture and Mutilation
In the Dalai Lama's Tibet, torture and mutilation—including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation--were favored punishments inflicted upon runaway serfs and thieves. Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsereh Wang Tuei, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a Buddhist: "When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was no good in religion."16 Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then "left to God" in the freezing night to die. "The parallels between Tibet and medieval Europe are striking," concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on Tibet.17 .....The Chinese Communists occupied Tibet in 1951, claiming suzerainty over that country. The 1951 treaty provided for ostensible self-government under the Dalai Lama's rule but gave China military control and exclusive right to conduct foreign relations. The Chinese were also granted a direct role in internal administration "to promote social reforms." At first, they moved slowly, relying mostly on persuasion in an attempt to effect change. Among the earliest reforms they wrought was to reduce usurious interest rates, and build a few hospitals and roads. "Contrary to popular belief in the West," writes one observer, the Chinese "took care to show respect for Tibetan culture and religion." No aristocratic or monastic property was confiscated, and feudal lords continued to reign over their hereditarily bound peasants.21

....In 1956-57, armed Tibetan bands ambushed convoys of the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army (PLA). The uprising received extensive assistance from the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), including military training, support camps in Nepal, and numerous airlifts.23 Meanwhile in the United States, the American Society for a Free Asia, a CIA front, energetically publicized the cause of Tibetan resistance, with the Dalai Lama's eldest brother, Thubtan Norbu, playing an active role in that group. The Dalai Lama's second-eldest brother, Gyalo Thondup, established an intelligence operation with the CIA in 1951. He later upgraded it into a CIA-trained guerrilla unit whose recruits parachuted back into Tibet.24

Many Tibetan commandos and agents whom the CIA dropped into the country were chiefs of aristocratic clans or the sons of chiefs. Ninety percent of them were never heard from again, according to a report from the CIA itself, meaning they were most likely captured and killed.25 "Many lamas and lay members of the elite and much of the Tibetan army joined the uprising, but in the main the populace did not, assuring its failure," writes Hugh Deane.26 In their book on Tibet, Ginsburg and Mathos reach a similar conclusion: "As far as can be ascertained, the great bulk of the common people of Lhasa and of the adjoining countryside failed to join in the fighting against the Chinese both when it first began and as it progressed."27 Eventually the resistance crumbled.

Enter the Communists
Whatever wrongs and new oppressions introduced by the Chinese in Tibet, after 1959 they did abolish slavery and the serfdom system of unpaid labor, and put an end to floggings, mutilations, and amputations as a form of criminal punishment. They eliminated the many crushing taxes, started work projects, and greatly reduced unemployment and beggary. They established secular education, thereby breaking the educational monopoly of the monasteries. And they constructed running water and electrical systems in Lhasa.28

Heinrich Harrer (later revealed to have been a sergeant in Hitler's SS) wrote a bestseller about his experiences in Tibet that was made into a popular Hollywood movie. He reported that the Tibetans who resisted the Chinese "were predominantly nobles, semi-nobles and lamas; they were punished by being made to perform the lowliest tasks, such as laboring on roads and bridges. They were further humiliated by being made to clean up the city before the tourists arrived." They also had to live in a camp originally reserved for beggars and vagrants.29....For the rich lamas and lords, the Communist intervention was a calamity. Most of them fled abroad, as did the Dalai Lama himself, who was assisted in his flight by the CIA. Some discovered to their horror that they would have to work for a living. However, throughout the 1960s, the Tibetan exile community was secretly pocketing $1.7 million a year from the CIA, according to documents released by the State Department in 1998. Once this fact was publicized, the Dalai Lama's organization itself issued a statement admitting that it had received millions of dollars from the CIA during the 1960s to send armed squads of exiles into Tibet to undermine the Maoist revolution. The Dalai Lama's annual payment from the CIA was $186,000. Indian intelligence also financed both him and other Tibetan exiles. He has refused to say whether he or his brothers worked for the CIA. The agency has also declined to comment.....38

That whole second article is an eye opener; well worth reading.

[Radical Activist]

26. The CIA links are nothing new

but that ended years ago when the US started to improve their relations with China. It doesn't surprise or bother me that the DL took help from where he could get it.

[MADem]

37. How about the realities of the culture? The "Friendly Feudalism" article?

You don't find that disturbing? Aside from the child rape, the slavery and the abuse that was part and parcel of the culture, this bit, to me, makes the DL look a bit like a puppet on a string--I mean, PINOCHET? Come ON:

In 1995, the News & Observer of Raleigh, North Carolina, carried a frontpage color photograph of the Dalai Lama being embraced by the reactionary Republican senator Jesse Helms, under the headline "Buddhist Captivates Hero of Religious Right."39 In April 1999, along with Margaret Thatcher, Pope John Paul II, and the first George Bush, the Dalai Lama called upon the British government to release Augusto Pinochet, the former fascist dictator of Chile and a longtime CIA client who had been apprehended while visiting England. The Dalai Lama urged that Pinochet not be forced to go to Spain where he was wanted to stand trial for crimes against humanity.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. The Dalai Lama

is, according to Tibetan Bhuddist tradtion, is a reincarnation of the previous Dalai Lamas. Once the Dalai Lama passes on, a search is begun for his successor by high Bhuddist priests. The current Dalai Lama was born in the mid 1930s, and passed many tests given to him by the priests that made them determine he was, indeed, the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama. (They included a preschooler being able to speak and understand a Tibetan dialect that was not spoken in his remote village, among other things)

Have you read the biography of the Dalai Lama? He makes no pretention about being anything other than a man, and one that can make mistakes. He speaks several languages; his English is not always perfect, and often his talks are translated by others into English. I assume Micky Z has never taken the time to listen to any of his talks, but has made up his mind about things solely on what he has read in Western magazines.

Mickey Z's words merely shows where he is at in his world viewpoint. That others listen to His Holiness and find wisdom in the words simply shows that they have a different world viewpoint.

[MADem]

7. Don't shoot the messenger--the kid is just passing on an item of interest

...and the DL's hook with the clandestine forces of the US government is fact, like it or not. The DL and the CIA are OLD friends. Make of that what you will, but it is what it is. And young Tibetans are not as thrilled with the religious trappings/servitude as they used to be in the old days....damn those internets and iPods, I guess!!!

http://www.greenleft.org.au/1996/248/13397
The Dalai Lama's hidden past

Most solidarity and environmental groups supporting the Tibetan people's cause have not questioned the Dalai Lama's role in Tibetan history or addressed what it would mean for the Tibetan people if the Dalai Lama and his coterie returned to power.

A 1995 document distributed by the Dalai Lama's Office of Tibet aggressively states that ``China tries to justify its occupation and repressive rule of Tibet by pretending that it `liberated' Tibetan society from `medieval feudal serfdom' and `slavery'. Beijing trots out this myth to counter every international pressure to review its repressive policies in Tibet.'' It then coyly concedes: ``Traditional Tibetan society was by no means perfect ... However, it was not as bad as China would have us believe.''

Was this a myth? Tibet's Buddhist monastic nobility controlled all land on behalf of the ``gods''. They monopolised the country's wealth by exacting tribute and labour services from peasants and herders. This system was similar to how the medieval Catholic Church exploited peasants in feudal Europe.

Tibetan peasants and herders had little personal freedom. Without the permission of the priests, or lamas, they could not do anything. They were considered appendages to the monastery. The peasantry lived in dire poverty while enormous wealth accumulated in the monasteries and in the Dalai Lama's palace in Lhasa.

In 1956 the Dalai Lama, fearing that the Chinese government would soon move on Lhasa, issued an appeal for gold and jewels to construct another throne for himself. This, he argued, would help rid Tibet of ``bad omens''. One hundred and twenty tons were collected. When the Dalai Lama fled to India in 1959, he was preceded by more than 60 tons of treasure.

Romantic notions about the ``peaceful'' and ``harmonious'' nature of Tibetan Buddhist monastic life should be tested against reality. The Lithang Monastery in eastern Tibet was where a major rebellion against Chinese rule erupted in 1956. Beijing tried to levy taxes on its trade and wealth. The monastery housed 5000 monks and operated 113 ``satellite'' monasteries, all supported by the labour of the peasants. ....Blakey was not the first foreigner to die suspiciously in Dharamsala this year. In March, the decomposed body of a white woman was found lying next to a bag full of clothes on the outskirts of the town. Police have yet to confirm her identity.

Two weeks ago, a German woman was attacked by two Indian men, who tried to hit her over the head with a rock. She managed to run away. A man from southern India who sold drums on the street also died in mysterious circumstances early this year. His body lay in the street for two days.

Some here attribute the rising violence against foreigners to the huge disparity of wealth between most locals and even the most frugal of Western backpackers.....



http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/tib/nytimes.htm
New York Times Interview with the Dalai Lama
Q: I understand that you were very angry during the 1990 gulf war, as
angry as you've ever been.

A: Angry? No. But one thing, when people started blaming Saddam Hussein,
then my heart went out to him.

Q: To Saddam Hussein?

A: Yes. Because this blaming everything on him -- it's unfair. He may be
a bad man, but without his army, he cannot act as aggressively as he does.
And his army, without weapons, cannot do anything. And these weapons were
not produced in Iraq itself. Who supplied them? Western nations! So one day
something happened and they blamed everything on him -- without
acknowledging their own contributions. That's wrong. The gulf crisis also
clearly demonstrated the serious implications of the arms trade. War --
without an army, killing as few people as possible -- is acceptable. But the
suffering of large numbers of people due to a military mission, that is sad.

Q: Did you say that killing sometimes is acceptable?

A: Comparatively. In human society, some people do get killed, for a
variety of reasons. However, when you have an established army, and
countries with those armies go to war, the casualties are immense. It's not
one or two casualties, it's thousands. And with nuclear weapons, it's
millions, really millions. For that reason, the arms trade is really
irresponsible. Irresponsible! Global demilitarization is essential.

Q: In Tibet, from the late 1950's until the early 1970's, one of your
brothers was involved in leading a guerrilla movement against the Chinese.
In fact, the guerrillas were supported by the C.I.A. How did you feel about
that?

A: I'm always against violence. But the Tibetan guerrillas were very
dedicated people. They were willing to sacrifice their own lives for the
Tibetan nation. And they found a way to receive help from the C.I.A. Now,
the C.I.A.'s motivation for helping was entirely political. They did not
help out of genuine sympathy, not out of support for a just cause. That was
not very healthy.

http://www.friendsoftibet.org/databank/usdefence/usd7.html
The CIA Circus: Tibet's Forgotten Army
'We had great expectations when we went to America. We thought perhaps they would even give us an atom bomb to take back,' says Tenzin Tsultrim. 'In the training period, we learned that the objective was to gain our independence,' adds another grizzled veteran. But the Americans had other ideas. 'The whole idea was to keep the Chinese occupied, keep them annoyed, keep them disturbed. Nobody wanted to go to war over Tibet...It was a nuisance operation. Basically, nothing more,' says former CIA agent Sam Halpern.

In March 1959, the CIA made a second arms drop in southern Tibet, where the resistance now controlled large areas. Back in Lhasa, the Dalai Lama was invited to the local Chinese military camp to attend a play — sans bodyguards, the invitation said. The citizens of Lhasa rose up in revolt; the Dalai Lama realised it was time to leave.

A few days later, the Dalai Lama, disguised as a soldier, escaped from his palace and headed south. The CIA-trained radio team met them en route, and asked the Americans to request Prime Minister Nehru to grant asylum to the Dalai Lama.Nehru, well aware of the situation, immediately approved. On March 31, 1959, after an arduous trek across the mountains, the Dalai Lama and his entourage entered India. This sparked off an exodus of refugees from Tibet to India — leaving behind only small pockets of resistance in southern Tibet.

Undeterred, the CIA parachuted four groups of Camp Hale trainees inside Tibet between 1959 and 1960 to contact the remaining resistance groups. But the missions resulted in the massacre of all but a few of the team members.

The CIA cooked up a fresh operation in Mustang, a remote corner of Nepal that juts into Tibet. Nearly two thousand Tibetans gathered here to continue their fight for freedom. A year later, the CIA made its first arms drop in Mustang. Organised on the lines of a modern army, the guerrillas were led by Bapa Yeshe, a former monk. ....

The image people have of the DL's little society aren't very accurate anymore. Oddly enough, there was a murder in the DL's town the other day: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20896945-2703,00.html

Outside, a couple of young Tibetan men with ponytails are chatting up two Australian girls with beads in their hair, while a cluster of Indian traders huddles around afire.

But there's an unfamiliar chill in the air of this Himalayan hill station, which has lured hundreds of thousands of Westerners since the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled leader, settled here in 1960.

Last week, a Tibetan monk found the body of Michael James Blakey, a 23-year-old British charity worker, under a pile of rocks near the Church of St John in the Wilderness, outside Upper Dharamsala. Police say Blakey was murdered with severe blows to the back of the head and to the throat, probably with rocks.

Santosh Patial, the police superintendent leading the investigation, said he had yet to make any arrests and was still following several leads.

"We're making progress, and we will definitely bring the killers to justice," he said.

In the meantime, many foreign visitors and residents say they are too scared to go out alone or to frequent the once lively restaurants, bars and tea shops of Upper Dharamsala after dark.

Greg Holland, a 23-year-old photography student from County Cork in Ireland, arrived here three weeks ago with his aunt to have an audience with the Dalai Lama. But after hearing about the murder, they moved out of the apartment they were renting and checked in to one of the better hotels in town. ....

And the DL has essentially 'sold out' the idea of a FREE TIBET in exchange for a Tibet where the Chinese don't fuck with them TOO much:
http://www.unpo.org/article.php?id=5973
Tibet: Envoy Fears When Dalai Lama Dies

BEIJING, (Dec 5) - The Dalai Lama's top envoy, in rare remarks on a dialogue process with China, has warned of potential instability unless the issue of Tibet is resolved within the lifetime of the 71-year-old spiritual leader.

Lodi Gyari also stressed the Dalai Lama's commitment to greater autonomy within China, rather than independence, but said that in return the Chinese government should redraw provincial borders to unite ethnic Tibetans in one region.....Some Tibetans in exile, particularly in the Tibetan Youth Congress, have expressed frustration with the Dalai Lama's "Middle Way", and call for a harder line....

And at the end of the day, it is all about the MONEY:

http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?article=Beijing+steps+up+movement+to+integrate+Tibet&id=14952

In reality, the culture Zhang wants to preserve risks disappearing beneath a surge of Chinese investment, migration and tourism. Beijing is accelerating its 5½-decade campaign to bring Tibet to heel. It is spurring high-growth economic policies and crushing political dissent in a drive to integrate the separatist-minded region into the rest of China.

Tibetan exiles say political repression is on the rise. In recent months, Chinese authorities have jailed several Tibetans, including monks, for possessing or distributing pro-independence leaflets, posters or photographs of the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled spiritual leader.

In September, Chinese border guards fired on an unarmed group of about 80 Tibetans fleeing to Nepal through a Himalayan pass. One of those fleeing, a Buddhist nun, was killed. A Romanian mountaineer filmed the attack.

"The killing of Tibetans by Chinese authorities is a matter of common practice," the Dalai Lama told Asahi Shimbun, a Japanese newspaper, last month.

Since May, Chinese officials have directed "an unprecedented wave of criticism" at the Dalai Lama, says his brother Gyalo Dhondup. "This is a major shift in their attitude, unprecedented in the past 27 years of contact with Chinese officials," Dhondup told Radio Free Asia last month.

Economic initiatives

Beijing's political crackdown has coincided with major economic initiatives that have brought:

•Tourism. In July, China completed construction of the 2,500-mile Beijing-Lhasa rail line, which carries the world's highest-elevation passenger train. Since then, tourist arrivals — mainly of ethnic Chinese — have soared. In July and August, 913,000 travelers surged into the sparsely populated region, a 54% increase over the same two-month period a year ago, says Lhaba Phuntsok, a Tibetan who heads the official China Tibetology Research Center in Beijing.....
•Migration. Figures on the number of ethnic Chinese living in Tibet remain highly sensitive. At a news conference for foreign journalists in July, Tibet's Beijing-appointed governor, Champa Phuntsok, declined to break down the current population of Lhasa....
•Jobs and investment. Beijing has poured money into giant infrastructure projects, and private investment has followed. But opportunities created by a boom in construction, retail and services have gone disproportionately to Chinese newcomers.....

http://www.studentsforafreetibet.org/article.php?id=561

Youth signal to Dalai Lama


Shimla - The security breach at the Indian Institute of Science during Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao's visit is a signal to the Dalai Lama that Tibetan youths are against his "middle way approach" towards China.

Tibetan Youth Congress vice-president Lobsang Yeshi has said the point of
the protest was "to send a clear message to the Dalai Lama and his
government-in-exile that the younger generation is not pleased with the
Tibet policy being pursued by him". ....The policy followed by the Dalai Lama - which Tibetan dissenters term the
China "appeasement" policy - derives from a resolution passed by the Tibetan
government-in-exile in March 10, 2004. ..... 'Tibetan youth living in exile will continue to struggle for the
independence of Tibet, instead of accepting the more diluted middle way
approach of the Dalai Lama," he said.

"Our moves will neither harm the policy of the Tibetan administration nor
hurt the Indian government."

Asked if the protests would not be seen as open defiance of the Dalai Lama,
Yeshi said the Tibetans were a democratic people and there was no doubt in
anyone's mind that the objective of the Tibetan Youth Congress was to
emancipate Tibet from China.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. I believe I was responding to the author of the article posted

If I got that wrong, I'm sorry. But I still stand by what I said about world views.

[MADem]

9. Well, sure you were....but Jeez, the kid puts up an article without commentary

and you assumed he had a point of view that he didn't voice.

I think it's an interesting article, worthy of discussion. By slamming the kid for his alleged view of the DL, his un-PC-ness, as it were, well, that stifles any discussion.

The facts of the matter are this--the younger Tibetans aren't so thrilled nowadays with the old man. They don't go for the traditional bullshit so much anymore, and they are pissed that he is sending his brother off to broker a deal with the Red Chinese for AUTONOMY rather than the independence. They think, some of them, that they've been sold down the river.

It ain't all Happy Families up in the DL's home in exile, nowadays...and all the while, the Tibetans living under the Chinese are having their culture stripped away like old paint.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. Who is slamming the poster?

I made a point of making sure I was responding to the article's author, for heaven's sake! And to say it "stifles discussion"--interesting, since I know that I gave information as to how the Dalai Lama was selected. I thought this information was needed.

[MADem]

21. Sorry, your post was unclear...when you asked "Have you read the bio" it looked as if you were

criticizing the OP, not the author of the piece. If I misunderstood your intent, I do apologize.

[Arazi]

15. Words vs actions. So the DL can spout wisdom but can his actions withstand scrutiny?

If he proposes to be "his holiness", his deeds must match. In the case of the Dalai Lama, clearly they don't and I'm not sure why you would insinuate that a person has some kind of flawed (in my interpretation of your post)"world viewpoint" if they point out the DL's troubling aspects.

Believing that the Dalai Lama should be mythologized without critique is as naive as believing that Mother Theresa was really a saint.

I don't find their words to be "wisdom" when their dirty laundry gets exposed, it's usually called hypocrisy.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. You put judgement into something

I was very hard trying to make non-judgemental, and also trying to not start an argument. Obviously I failed.

[H2O Man]

24. No, you didn't.

Who owns the problem? In the case of the chip in question, it is not on your shoulder.

[nam78_two]

28. You did not fail.nt

[Arazi]

29. Your last two sentences implied a judgement imho

Speaking of "his holiness" and finding his "wisdom" vs. one's world view came off as negatively judgemental to me. I apologize if I misinterpreted your post.

What did you mean then? Can you clarify? Are you somehow seeing some kind of continuum of enlightment that influences perception of the world, wisdom and the Dalai Lama notwithstanding his religions' structure, and the Dalai Lama's role in old Tibet?

[SpiralHawk]

10. What is the sound of propaganda being catapulted into DU?

[MADem]

12. Explain. What's propagandistic about the article?

What are the falsehoods?

[bluerum]

14. I believe a reference to the sound of one hand clapping is in order. nt

[MADem]

23. Way to answer the question---not. How profoundly...LAME...of you.

I don't know a shitload about this matter, frankly, but I find it interesting. I always ask myself 'cui bono' when I look at the world and alliances.

Here we have the DL trying to rapproach with China and get autonomy...NOW. After all these years of exile. When he said for eons all he wanted was his independent Tibet back. When he was uninterested in coming to ANY terms with the Commies.

So, why the change? Why aren't the Chinese cuddling up to him? They're marginalizing him, and going forward with modernizing his lands. The upper caste people are being crapped on by the commies, and the former serfs are being raised up.

Is the war in Eye-rack cutting into the cash flow that used to go to the DL? Is the US cutting him loose because we owe China a shitload of money?

These are the questions I think are important, that merit serious discussion.

You babble rather immaturely about one hand clapping.

Ooops, someone DARES, not even criticize, just QUESTION, the activities of a leader of a feudal system that has rape of small children, slavery, and denigration of women in its very recent history. That won't "do" at all, it's not "progressive." No questioning of the man in the bedsheet permitted, eh?

Whatever.

[bluerum]

30. Sooooorrrry. I saw it as an alleghory. That's all. I am interested

in this too. But I do see a Buddhist reference in the posters question and I don't think it was intended to be profound. Surely you have heard the question - What is the sound of one hand clapping?


Why aren't the Chinese cuddling up to the DL? Historically they are enemies. His heir has been imprisoned in China. Tibet wants national autonomy, China wants to absorb them. And I don't think GW gives a rats ass about Tibet. Any neo-Buddhist groups are probably fronted by the Chinese in one way or another.

[MADem]

35. To further the discussion

Re: the Chinese--it's in their interest to turn Tibet into Disney World; if DL's little town in India can make money hand over fist, imagine what a well-produced Shangri-La could rake in. They aren't evergoing to give the DL autonomy, likely due to his cozying up to the CIA all those years. Surely they want at least as much control over him and his followers as they do the Roman Catholic Church in China.

I found where someone had archived that originally referenced CT article; it is well worth reading: http://www.timbomb.net/buddha/archive/msg00087.html

"The idea was to make Tibet very expensive for China," said the former agent,
who now lives in the eastern U.S. "The Chinese had these long, vulnerable supply
lines. The guerrillas were supposed to harass them, tie up troops, generally
make life miserable. And for a while, they actually succeeded."
Yet from the very beginning, the agent said, planners at CIA headquarters
in Langley, Va., had few illusions about pushing well-equipped Chinese
divisions out of the kingdom. "Did we tell the Tibetans that? Of course
not," he said. "But if we used the Tibetans for our own ends, then they
also used the Cold War to get support for sovereignty. I feel no guilt
whatsoever over the operation, especially given what the Chinese have done
in Tibet since." ...

Despite growing protests from both Nepal and China, hundreds of warriors
held out with Indian and Taiwanese support until 1974, two years after
President Richard Nixon normalized U.S. relations with China. The death
knell, when it finally came, arrived via audiotape. "His Holiness urged
them to put down their weapons," Lobsang said of a recording of the Dalai
Lama that was hand-carried from camp to camp in the dusty, lunar mountains
of northwestern Nepal. "Most of them gave up and were relocated to small
farms. A few committed suicide. Some tried to escape to India and were
ambushed by the Chinese and the Nepalis, who were embarrassed by the
operation." The final shots of the secret war, fired by Nepalese Ghurka
soldiers, killed the last U.S.-trained guerrilla leader at a remote
18,000-foot pass near the Indian border.

The CIA quietly paid to resettle the survivors. The Tibetans have eschewed
organized violence ever since. "Now all we do is wait, and the Chinese will
beat us at this too," said Lobsang, who noted that his grown daughter,
raised in Nepal, visited Tibet for the first time last year and felt "like
an alien." Other aging veterans voice similar laments--less that their
past struggle, however brave, has sunk into oblivion, but that their future
is heading for the same fate. Nawang refuses to revisit his homeland
despite repeated Chinese offers of fence-mending. The capital he defended
on horseback 37 years ago now boasts more than 300 Chinese discos. "They
require us to register as `overseas Chinese,' to get in," said Nawang. He
said he is a Tibetan and will never be a Chinese. He said that he will
probably die in Katmandu.

I still wonder if the DL is a victim of Iraq War austerity measures--could his hundred million plus budget, paid for by the US of A to keep him living well and in comfort, be getting cut? Or is the whole 'Tibet thing' being used as a card on the table with the Chinese for some purpose?

We're able to look the other way on matters of freedom and democracy when it is in our national interest to so do, could this be another one of those instances?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. Well, for one thing, it does not cite sources for its information

Before I make a harsh judgement on someone, I do like to see a source cited for the information given. As far as I could tell from reading this article, the person is merely giving opinions, not backed by any other source or facts. I am willing to study and decide what I think, but I am not going to take what some person says on a webpage as the truth without proof.

[Disturbed]

22. Most "organized" relgions have an element of

scam within them. It seems that this one is not an exception to my view.

[MADem]

25. He is commenting on a Chicago Times article that talks about the CIA link

I've posted a load of links here to aid discussion. This one, written by a progressive writer, is a frigging EYE opener, and it is heavily, heavily sourced--footnotes a plenty. I recommend the entire article: http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

Elites, Émigrés, and the CIA

For the rich lamas and lords, the Communist intervention was a calamity. Most of them fled abroad, as did the Dalai Lama himself, who was assisted in his flight by the CIA. Some discovered to their horror that they would have to work for a living. However, throughout the 1960s, the Tibetan exile community was secretly pocketing $1.7 million a year from the CIA, according to documents released by the State Department in 1998. Once this fact was publicized, the Dalai Lama's organization itself issued a statement admitting that it had received millions of dollars from the CIA during the 1960s to send armed squads of exiles into Tibet to undermine the Maoist revolution. The Dalai Lama's annual payment from the CIA was $186,000. Indian intelligence also financed both him and other Tibetan exiles. He has refused to say whether he or his brothers worked for the CIA. The agency has also declined to comment.38


In 1995, the News & Observer of Raleigh, North Carolina, carried a frontpage color photograph of the Dalai Lama being embraced by the reactionary Republican senator Jesse Helms, under the headline "Buddhist Captivates Hero of Religious Right."39 In April 1999, along with Margaret Thatcher, Pope John Paul II, and the first George Bush, the Dalai Lama called upon the British government to release Augusto Pinochet, the former fascist dictator of Chile and a longtime CIA client who had been apprehended while visiting England. The Dalai Lama urged that Pinochet not be forced to go to Spain where he was wanted to stand trial for crimes against humanity.


Today, mostly through the National Endowment for Democracy and other conduits that are more respectable-sounding than the CIA, the US Congress continues to allocate an annual $2 million to Tibetans in India, with additional millions for "democracy activities" within the Tibetan exile community. The Dalai Lama also gets money from financier George Soros, who now runs the CIA-created Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty and other institutes.40....Many ordinary Tibetans want the Dalai Lama back in their country, but it appears that relatively few want a return to the social order he represented. A 1999 story in the Washington Post notes that he continues to be revered in Tibet, but

. . . few Tibetans would welcome a return of the corrupt aristocratic clans that fled with him in 1959 and that comprise the bulk of his advisers. Many Tibetan farmers, for example, have no interest in surrendering the land they gained during China's land reform to the clans. Tibet's former slaves say they, too, don't want their former masters to return to power.
"I've already lived that life once before," said Wangchuk, a 67-year-old former slave who was wearing his best clothes for his yearly pilgrimage to Shigatse, one of the holiest sites of Tibetan Buddhism. He said he worshipped the Dalai Lama, but added, "I may not be free under Chinese communism, but I am better off than when I was a slave."42

Kim Lewis, who studied healing methods with a Buddhist monk in Berkeley, California, had occasion to talk at length with more than a dozen Tibetan women who lived in the monk's building. When she asked how they felt about returning to their homeland, the sentiment was unanimously negative. At first, Lewis thought their reluctance had to do with the Chinese occupation, but they quickly informed her otherwise. They said they were extremely grateful "not to have to marry 4 or 5 men, be pregnant almost all the time," or deal with sexually transmitted diseases contacted from a straying husband. The younger women "were delighted to be getting an education, wanted absolutely nothing to do with any religion, and wondered why Americans were so naive." They recounted stories of their grandmothers' ordeals with monks who used them as "wisdom consorts," telling them "how much merit they were gaining by providing the 'means to enlightenment'-- after all, the Buddha had to be with a woman to reach enlightenment." .......

[Radical Activist]

32. The Dali Lama has acknowledged

the faults of Tibetan society before the Chinese invasion. I don't find what happened in the past to be a good reason to stop supporting the most visible advocate for Tibetan freedom.

[MADem]

33. No one is suggesting that you should. That's up to you entirely.

However, I do think the myths need to be separated from the realities. This piece from the elsewhere cited "Friendly Feudalism" article is salient to your remarks:

To support the Chinese overthrow of the old feudal theocracy is not to applaud everything about Chinese rule in Tibet. This point is seldom understood by today's Shangri-La adherents in the West.

The converse is also true. To denounce the Chinese occupation does not mean we have to romanticize the former feudal régime. One common complaint among Buddhist followers in the West is that Tibet's religious culture is being undermined by the occupation. Indeed this seems to be the case. Many of the monasteries are closed, and the theocracy has passed into history. What I am questioning here is the supposedly admirable and pristinely spiritual nature of that pre-invasion culture. In short, we can advocate religious freedom and independence for Tibet without having to embrace the mythology of a Paradise Lost.

Finally, it should be noted that the criticism posed herein is not intended as a personal attack on the Dalai Lama. Whatever his past associations with the CIA and various reactionaries, he speaks often of peace, love, and nonviolence. And he himself really cannot be blamed for the abuses of the ancien régime, having been but 15 years old when he fled into exile. In 1994, in an interview with Melvyn Goldstein, he went on record as favoring since his youth the building of schools, "machines," and roads in his country. He claims that he thought the corvée (forced unpaid serf labor for the lord's benefit) and certain taxes imposed on the peasants were "extremely bad." And he disliked the way people were saddled with old debts sometimes passed down from generation to generation.45 Furthermore, he now proposes democracy for Tibet, featuring a written constitution, a representative assembly, and other democratic essentials.46

In 1996, the Dalai Lama issued a statement that must have had an unsettling effect on the exile community. It reads in part as follows:

Of all the modern economic theories, the economic system of Marxism is founded on moral principles, while capitalism is concerned only with gain and profitability. Marxism is concerned with the distribution of wealth on an equal basis and the equitable utilization of the means of production. It is also concerned with the fate of the working classes-that is the majority—as well as with the fate of those who are underprivileged and in need, and Marxism cares about the victims of minority-imposed exploitation. For those reasons the system appeals to me, and it seems fair. . . I think of myself as half-Marxist, half-Buddhist.47

And more recently in 2001, while visiting California, he remarked that "Tibet, materially, is very, very backward. Spiritually it is quite rich. But spirituality can't fill our stomachs."48 ....

[nam78_two]

27. Whatever

:eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Yeah. Fuckin' Dalai Lama. What a jerk.

:eyes:

If you don't like what he has to say, don't listen to the guy. At least he's not ordering people to kill over cartoons or egging governments on to ban birth control.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. That reads like...

Kurt Vonnegut's "List of Liberal Shit I Don't Want to Hear Anymore."

Only I don't think he's being sarcastic.

[MADem]

36. Actually, after doing a load of reading, it all sounds more like an Anatomy of a Con Job

to some extent. The original newspaper article that the commentor references that talks about the CIA's support for the Tibetan rebels is very interesting (link just slightly upthread). The history of the Tibetans is a bit stomach-churning--slavery, child rape, abuse, and a feudal society were the order of the day.

Of course, it was in the interests of the CIA to minimize the 'feudal' aspect and maximize the Vonnegutian 'liberal shit' you note--the peace/love/understanding bits--in order to get the softhearted American population behind these "freedom loving peoples" who were actually a bunch of pissed-off lords, angered because they'd lost control of their serfdoms.

It's all pretty surprising, these details, and the cleverness of the CIA to use the 'kindness of strangers' quality that American people have to further their goals vis a vis China. The comments of those Tibetan women in the 'Friendly Fuedalism' article, who were thrilled to be the hell out of there and never wanted to go back, are rather telling.

[riderinthestorm]

38. It's interesting to see the resistance to MADem's information

on this thread. Why does the Dalai Lama get some kind of pass when it comes to criticism (or even scrutiny?)

I'm not invested in the Dalai Lama one way or another, and I'd never heard of the Tibetan cultural, religious or social problems before this thread, so I don't have any kind of pre-conceived notions one way or another but it's undeniable that the Dalai Lama IS supposed to be their leader. He shouldn't get some kind of shield.

Especially when there's a game afoot here that's being played with China, it bears some objective dissection.

[MADem]

39. Jeez, thanks for chiming in--I am in the very same boat as you!!!!

I don't KNOW much about the DL, didn't care too much one way or another, have absolutely no investment in raising the guy up or grinding him down, but when I read that article, it piqued my interest so I did a little digging. And what I read REALLY bothered me. It made me wonder exactly how much of the DL's swell, "peace, man" hippie-dippie PR came straight out of Langley, to be honest. Who knows, maybe Richard the Gerbil Gere is a CIA operative!!!

Christ, I guess I touched a nerve, eh? Can't say anything bad about a guy who, despite his kind words and gentle nature in front of the camera or the microphone, came from and for a period of time oversaw a feudal society that had slaves, torture, rape and child molestation as central features! To say nothing of a whole cadre of guys who, having lost their elite lifestyle, palacial homes and lands, were doing a lot more than just waving swords, they were a small and secret army in the pay of the USA...

Sacred cows...some folk just don't want to tackle the tough ones! It's unfortunate, the questioning usually improves understanding...at least that's my view!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. "how much of the DL's swell, "peace, man" hippie-dippie PR..."

"came straight out of Langely."

It came out of 2,600 years of Buddhist thought.

Again, the similiarities with Vonnegut's piece.

[MADem]

41. Oh HORSESHIT!!!!! I rather doubt the "purpose" of Buddhism was to put the fucking DL

on the front page of the paper HUGGING Jesse fucking Helms.

Are you having a problem understanding what 'PR' is?????

I'm not TALKING about his "religious philosophies" or even the necessity in the minds of his followers to screw women against their will to achieve enlightenment.

I am speaking strictly about how this guy was promoted here in the US and elsewhere, and turned into a MEDIA figure. PR--public relations....capisce?

But oops, can't question the "agenda!" Get into lockstep, or else! No questions!!!!!! No open discussion!!! It cuts against the grain, eh?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. hugging Jesse fucking Helms...

is just the sort of thing Lord Buddha would do.

Why so defensive?

[MADem]

43. Riiiiiiiiiiight........

I'm not defensive at all. You are being, as they say, "deliberately obtuse."

Enjoy yourself.