Why are we kissing their asses?

[Cleetus]

I don't understand Pelosi and Conyers, and the Democratic Majority so determined to extend an olive branch to the wingnuts. They snubbed us for years, silenced us, ignored us, did whatever the fuck they wanted to.

I'm not saying we should do the same thing, we're better than them. What I am saying is that if war crimes were committed we owe it to our brave men and women who paid the ultimate price to bring to justice those who are responsible for their pointless deaths.

So maybe our majority isn't big enough to push articles of impeachment through, but that shouldn't mean that impeachment and investigation of alleged war crimes should become a non-issue. Conyers was right. He was right about the DSM. I signed his fucking petition. I was behind him.

What changed?

Ethics violations should be thoroughly investigated. Allegations stemming from the DSM should be thoroughly investigated. Allegations of war crimes should be investigated as well.

I'm so disgusted.

[HughMoran]

1. Maybe they are giving them a chance to cooperate

...before the Dems are sworn in in Jan. Then they will say "hey, we offered you a better way and YOU refused - get ready for a rough ride folks"

[wtmusic]

2. I'm willing to wait to January before passing judgement

but I find the comments about anything being off the table disturbing.

[Cleetus]

3. "Off the table" comments...

How can Pelosi and Conyers make a determination such as "off the table" before they are in possession of the facts. If the bastard deserves to be impeached then that's what we should do. We don't owe junior a damn thing.

[wtmusic]

4. With you 100%

and I'm bookmarking the threads where a select few are blindly accepting that Pelosi and Conyers will do the right thing come January, and gotten really nasty with those who aren't so sure.

[Erika]

5. W will be impeached

We just have to wait for the rest of the Americans to wake up.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

10. And we need to keep the caffeine flowing to them

[IWantPeace]

7. Conyers is in possession of the facts

unless he wasn't paying attention in his own hearings...

Jonathan Turley at Conyers’ NSA Hearing: Bush Committed a Crime
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2894394

great post!K&R

[Nay]

21. I also am willing to wait until January, but then, all bets are off. If I

hear anything more about stuff being "off the table" Pelosi and the rest of them are going to get letter after letter, march after march, and email after email to change their minds. Our country has been POISONED by these bastards for the past 6 years, and we cannot ignore it.

[Mythsaje]

6. That's EXACTLY why I wrote THIS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2891200&mesg_id=2891200

[question everything]

8. The war is not the only issue for Congress

It is pretty much agreed that the 109th was the worst Congress in doing nothing. And one reason was the polarized stand that they took, shutting us off committees and deliberations and - what a legislative body is expected to do - compromises.

Many in DU, disagree, but I respect the decision by Pelosi and others to put economic issues on the front burner that will get cooperation and will pass. Poor people who would benefit fron an increase in the minimum wage cannot wait until after we finish articles of impeachment and other Iraq related issues.

Besides, we have a very slim majority in the Senate so we will need their cooperation to pass laws.

[southerncrone]

11. Unfortunately I must agree w/you

I share Cletus's frustration, too. I think we are so exhausted by these last 6 years of grief from this &hit-for-brains administration, that we are overly eager to get rid of these bums! :mad:

However, we do have projects we want to pass, & unfortunately we must have their cooperation to get those very important bills passed, & quickly. Minimum wage in particular. :patriot:

It's almost like waiting for Santa. Your not exactly sure he's going to come, but you can't contain your excitement over the possiblity & your can hardly stand the wait! :P

[puebloknot]

18. Just like Santa...

...the Congress has a lot of elves that they can delegate tasks to.

People keep saying we can't pass the minimum wage *and* see to expelling criminal elements from our government.

Does anyone really think they'll honor the minimum wage, any more than they've honored No Child Left Behind?

We can't build a new government on the sifting sands of a criminal administration that has tentacles in every corner.

(Just saw "Alien" again, so that imagery of "tentacles" is still in my head. I'm afraid to go to sleep, perhaps to dream!) :)

We're "grownups," and we can't afford to wait for Santa. We send him a bunch of faxes to let him know the chimney is ready and waiting: "Be there or be square!"

[IWantPeace]

12. People are dying everyday in Iraq- 1 billion spent everyday

We cannot move foward on any issue until we stop the killing and looting.

Imagine how much money we would have for more important domestic issues if we stopped the looting. The illegal immoral unending waste of money in Iraq is draining everything we have. The are looting the nation, everything, even social security. We should not be creating more disabled veterans when we do not have the money to take care of them when they come home.

We must cut the funding for Iraq- Impeach Bush and apologize to the world, then take a look at our own country and focus on our problems here.

[puebloknot]

19. Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! And so on, and so on, and so on!

It's so elegant on paper. We just have to get people to read that paper!

Peace is possible!

[IndyOp]

30. Strongly Agreed: Priority 1 - Out of Iraq Now!! (n/t)

:hi:

[Porcupine]

9. Climate Change, Peak Oil, Debt Crisis, Trade Balance or.......

the next active hurricane season. In a few short years the human race as a whole will be fighting for it's life. We are dependent upon systems that are massively unsustainable and subject to rapid collapse. Ask the citizens of New Orleans how quick that can happen.

There is quite a lot that congress has to do just to break even on some of these issues much less make progress. Compared to some of these the war is silly little boys pissing in the wind.

Maybe they have bigger fish to fry.

[bananas]

13. Impeachment? How about war crimes and treason?

If there's no punishment, there's no reason for them not to try again in the future.

[CK_John]

14. Just maybe, * called their bluff. Something like "piss me off and

I'll push this here red button". Reality is Congress is just in recess until Jan, and people who understand that nothing is real until after Jan and a new Congress take their oaths and their actions and statements become official. Anything said now has about the same weight as a used car dealer.

[Vidar]

15. My thoughts exactly. Highly recommended.

[ClayZ]

16. Perhaps we should send Re Minders!

Like: http://www.panoramas.dk/fullscreen5/f4_iraq.html


click and drag your mouse in any direction!

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

The need for impeachment will be shown once the oversight starts

Bring out the proof to the people. Let them call for it (and trust me, they will). Don't give the right any chance to change the subject ahead of time by saying "This is what we are going to do" before you even are in office.

If the Democrats play this right, he'll not only get impeached, he'll actually have to resign.

[puebloknot]

20. I have a dream.

Actually, about a year ago, I *had* a dream that woke me out of a sound sleep:

"George Bush is resigning. It's being announced now."

Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but it's delicious. It's also scary. Who comes next?

[OneBlueSky]

17. that's what politicians DO (with few exception a la Kucinich) . . .

it's ingrained in them . . . to be involved in electoral politics is to have your lips puckered and your knee pads on at all times . . . comes with the territory . . .

[unblock]

22. same reason THEY professed bipartisanship when THEY took power

no one benefits by coming off as partisan hacks from the get-go.

it simply works much better if they say they're not looking for impeachment, perhaps that they don't even want investigations, and then later say they are shocked, SHOCKED that these horrible matters and evidence have come to their attention and cannot be ignored. gee, we never realized the DEPTHS of their depravity. you get the idea.

[Warren Stupidity]

29. They didn't.

They claimed mandates. They wailed on about new eras and doing everything different and they acted immediately to cut the Democrats completely out of power, to abolish all bipartisan institutions. They mentioned bipartisanship only after they got clobbered last November. They threatened to go nukular at a hint of opposition from our party to their agenda. Remember?

[unblock]

32. they mentioned bipartisanship the minute we objected

they used it as a cudgel to shut us up. any objection we raised was characterized as us ruining the wonderful spirit of bipartisanship under which they would ram their partisan agenda down our collective throats.

[Philosoraptor]

23. Good question.

After six years of being total assholes, why should we kow tow to them? Why should we play nice even now?

Those people in D.C. don't think like us. Any one of us would be screaming bloody murder from the floor every day. You can't play nice with sons of bitches.

[rock]

24. Now you say you love me,

Well just to prove it's true,
Cry Me a River,
Cry Me a River,
I cried a river over you.

They can kiss my ass.

[sendero]

25. You know...

.... there is a difference between actually cooperating and acting like you are cooperating.

I have a strong suspicion that the "olive branch" being handed out now is of the variety of "you are welcome to come aboard but we're piloting this ship".

Let's wait and see what happens before we get miffed. Personally, there is more than one flavor of "my way or the highway", and George's was the least palatable to anyone. Pelosi can do better.

[Warren Stupidity]

26. Democratic disease.

Hopefully concurrent with olive branch waving fair-playing idiocy will be some real work, some dirty work, digging up the bodies buried around the planet, getting at the truth of the last eight years.

[Red Zelda]

27. Because Pelosi is a fool?

[KharmaTrain]

28. We Still Haven 't Seen The Damage...

First...the Democrats need to return some civility to the Congress. This is restoring oversight and rules that have been wiped away in 12 years of Repugnican misadministration. Some are as simple as making sure a 15 minute vote is a 15 minute vote...not a 3 hour one while arms were being twisted. It means allowing the minority to speak unlike we were able to...since this is still a Representative Democracy and all members should have some say...and that we need to move away from the autocratic rule of the past 12 years.

So many want vengenence for this wrong or that...and I would like to see ALL criminiality of this regime to be investigated and prosecuted. But I want it primarily in the criminal, not the political arena. The criminal will be ongoing and wide reaching in a way the political can't. The only use of the political is to frame the Repugnicans into a box with all these crimes and lack of responsibility. This is done in open hearings and the slow drip, drip, drip of scandal after scandal...abuse after abuse...fraud after fraud...and there's more than enough to fill the headlines for the next two years.

People elected Democrats last November for a change, but, as Bill Clinton has said, it's not a mandate, it's a chance. That middle 10-15% that voted with us in that last election did it more out of disgust with the Repugnicans than it was for any "love" for Democrats. We have the chance to earn their respect and for being the "middle" or mainstream and push the right wingers into a long hibernation. The election was the first part of this process...the '08 elections are the next, big step where Democrats can build on the past gains and re-take the Executive. Showing "the adults" are back in charge will do this a lot more than going out and looking for heads to hang...especially Democrats who don't have the same fervor for the political circus many here do.

There's a ton of debris this regime and 12 years of one party rule on Capitol Hill have done...we still haven't even touched the surface, yet know the extent of the corruption. People are demanding action now as if Pelosi not only is Speaker already but has a veto-proof majority. She isn't, she doesn't and there's a lot of messes that need to be cleaned up. For example, 7 out of 9 spending bills this do-nothing Congress didn't pass that could shut the government down early next year.

Play the game smart and Repugnicans can be banished to minority status for years to come. Play for vengence and whatever short-term gains may be acconmplished will be wiped out by voters who will reject a heavy swing to the left like they finally did to the right.

[Buzz Clik]

31. August 1, 2000 (on another discussion board)

From:Luna, Queen of the Moth People

To: Her Loyal Subjects.

Subject: Dear Subjects, Seek the Dim Light

For the sake of self preservation, we, the Moth People, must change our quest. Pursuing the brightest light has brought centuries of tragedy, and we must preserve ourselves for the sake of future generations.

Last evening, I was attracted to the flickering of a television, and I have found the safest of glows. The man they call Dubya is attractive, yet his bulb is quite dim. We will never fear singeing our wings, even in his close proximity.

So I implore you, my subjects, follow the dimness. Never before has a light burned so softly as that emanating from the man called Dubya.

EDIT: (Actually, the entire discussion was prophetic. http://jinnycj.home.mindspring.com/netcellboard/Archived/1962.html )