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Is "patriotism" just one more scam used by the haves against the have nots?

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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 12:40 PM
Original message
Is "patriotism" just one more scam used by the haves against the have nots?
Edited on Mon Dec-11-06 12:46 PM by Cyrano
The core of my question is, what do we mean when we call ourselves patriots? Is a "patriot" someone who stands by his or her country, no matter what, just because it happens to be the place they were born? What if I had been born into Nazi Germany and supported all of their polices? Would that have made me a "patriot?"

Way back when, Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner had a comic routine titled, "The Two Thousand Year Old Man." Brooks was the old man and Reiner was a reporter who was interviewing him. At one point, Brooks says, "Oh, yeah. We also invented national anthems."

"What was yours?" inquired Reiner.

Brooks sang, "Hurray for cave 69. Screw everybody else."

Evidently, we haven't come very far since then. Today, our national anthem could very well be, "Hurray for the USA. Screw everyone else."

Many moons ago, I was a grunt who was gung ho enough to do whatever the leaders of our country told me to do. Is that patriotism? Or is that just what every German on trial at Nuremberg claimed? "I was only following orders."

Given Vietnam and Iraq, I've been wondering whether patriotism is nothing more than a tool used by the wealthy and powerful to get the rest of us to do whatever it is they want done.

So, again I ask, is patriotism nothing more than a matter of where you happen to have been born? I really don't have the answer to that question. Do you?





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rpgamerd00d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Short Answer: Yes
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Short answer, "yes, but", long answer, "no, if"
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. "Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels."
I think Samuel Johnson said that.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. And in BushAmerica, religion is the first. NT
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. Howard Zinn pointed out that there was no such thing as
'national security' or 'national defense' because our interests aren't the interests of the government (I think he said the government although he may have said the wealthy).

Nationalism or calls for patriotism obscure this fact pretty neatly.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. Just like they use "charity" at this time of year...
As a cover to keep the corporate profits from being shared more equally...
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Rude Horner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. You aren't alone
I used to be the same way. "Woohoo! USA!!" That was before I started thinking. Now I believe patriotism is merely one way to keep us divided. To make us feel superior to others. For awhile now, I've been bugged by the phrase "God bless the USA" because what is that saying, really? It's implying that somehow we are God's chosen people, and all others are not. I'm sure God would have a few things to say about that. But again, it's designed to make us feel superior. To foster an "us versus them" mentality. And there are people who gobble it up, hook, line and sinker.

I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with being proud of your country, but I think people need to keep it in perspective. Be proud of your country when your country does something to be proud of. But do not blindly worship.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. There's a bit more to it than that, I think...
when you get right down to it, patriotism (and its less respectable twin brother, nationalism) are nothing more than tribalism dressed up in modern clothing, and tribalism is something that's as old as human societies.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. Patriotism as like team spirit, but with guns.
Or bows and arrows, or sticks and rocks or death stars - whatever.

Understanding the gang psychology underlying it doesn't necessarily make it wrong. After all, the guys in "cave 69" survived to tell the tale.

Nations are formed to promote collective self-interest. It isn't a clever creation of the rich and powerful. It's built into us, but the rich and powerful certainly use it to promote their interests.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. "Patriotism is the most foolish of passions and the passion of fools."
- Schopenhauer
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. Quotes on patriotism.
"One of the great attractions to patriotism, it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of a nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat while feeling we're profoundly virtuous." : Aldous Huxley

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"A nation is a society united by a delusion about its ancestry and a common fear of its neighbors." : W. R. Inge

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"Patriotism is fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave, blind as a stone and as irrational as a headless hen." -Ambrose Bierce

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"Patriotism is a religion, the egg from which wars are hatched." : Guy de Maupassant

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"Patriotism is a menace to liberty.": Emma Goldman

"Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy." -George Bernard Shaw

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Patriotism is a superstition, one far more injurious, brutal and inhumane than religion." -Gustave Herve

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"Patriotism - the virtue of the vicious." -Oscar Wilde

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"Patriotism is a survival from barbarous times which must not only be evoked and educated but which must be eradicated by all means - by preaching, persuasion, contempt and ridicule." -Leo Tolstoy

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"You'll never have a quiet world until you knock the patriotism out of the human race." -George Bernard Shaw

"A patriot sets himself apart in his own country under his own flag, sneers at other nations and keeps an army of uniformed assassins on hand at heavy expense to grab slices of other people's countries and keep them from grabbing slices of his. In the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for 'the universal brotherhood of man' - with his mouth." : Mark Twain, The Lowest Animal

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"This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism on command, senseless violence and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism." : Albert Einstein

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"Patriotism means advocating plunder in the interests of the privileged class of your particular country. The time will soon come when calling someone a patriot will be the deepest insult." -Ernest. B. Bax

"Politically speaking, tribal nationalism always insists that its own people are surrounded by 'a world of enemies' - 'one against all' - and that a fundamental difference exists between this people and all others. It claims its people to be unique, individual, incompatible with all others, and denies theoretically the very possibility of a common mankind long before it is used to destroy the humanity of man." -Hannah Arendt, The Origins Of Totalitarianism p.227

===
"Seas of blood have been shed for the sake of patriotism. One would expect the harm and irrationality of patriotism to be self-evident to everyone. But the surprising fact is that cultured and learned people not only do not notice the harm and stupidity of patriotism, they resist every unveiling of it with the greatest obstinacy and passion (with no rational grounds), and continue to praise it as beneficent and elevating." : Leo Tolstoy

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"Blind patriotism has been kept intact by rewriting history to provide people with moral consolation and a psychological basis for denial." -William H. Boyer

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"Patriotism is a superstition artificially created and maintained through a web of lies and falsehoods, robbing us of our dignity and increasing our arrogance and conceit." : Emma Goldman



"What no one seemed to notice. . . was the ever widening gap. . .between the government and the people. . . And it became always wider. . . the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting, it provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway . . . (it) gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about . . .and kept us so busy with continuous changes and 'crises' and so fascinated . . . by the machinations of the 'national enemies,' without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. . .

Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted,' that unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures'. . . must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. . . .Each act. . . is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join you in resisting somehow.

You don't want to act, or even talk, alone. . . you don't want to 'go out of your way to make trouble.' . . .But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves, when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. . . .You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things your father. . . could never have imagined." :

From Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free, The Germans, 1938-45 (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1955)
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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Thank you, vickiss. You've posted some very profound thoughts on the subject.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. You are most welcome Cyrano. Glad to contribute. n/t
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
12. Your Nazi comparison is right on target.
Hermann Goering told a reporter, while he was waiting to be tried in Nuremberg, that this was what the Nazis did to get the Germans to go along with Nazi atrocities. They would call them unpatriotic to change their minds if they were hesitant to accept all Nazi policies.
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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Thanks for that, Cleita. It sounds like something Bush/Cheney/Rove would have said.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. heck yes
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
16. The typical neocon call for patriotism is a call for
1) Abandoning Common Sense
2) Favoring the wealthy and privileged, especially the members of
corporations like the Carlyle Group Over the interests of the Working Class
3) Has no regard for the environment and often implies that "tree-huggers" et al are
not good for the country (remember Rummy wanted to include environmentalists in his list of terrorists!)
4) Purports that war, even eternal war, is good and that peace is cowardly and bad
5) As an offshoot of 4, states that diplomacy is unneeded - if you are for your country -
you are for using all the military might the country has to offer
6) Considers the economy only in terms of the "producers" and not in terms of the labor
needed
7) Uses the influence of neocons to infiltrate the church pulpits, so that should we
attend church we are told that private sins like homosexuality are a scandal before the eyes of the Lord - but that again, endless violence and war are desirable and good
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. Disraeli is a hero of the neocons. He was a conservative who came up
with the idea of using "patriotism" to get a large block of poor people to vote against their own best interests and with the conservatives in Britain.
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