If "Red America" votes Republican again, they deserve what they get

[Taverner]

Keep in mind the "heartland" of America (with the exception of free-thinking Iowa) takes the most in subsidies, benefits the most from Democratic programs, and is in the most need for jobs, SS, etc...yet they vote against their own best interests time after time.

Edwards was their man - still is. If they don't realize he's their best ally since Henry Wallace in the 30's - then they deserve everything they get...

[liberal N proud]

1. But we all suffer for their stupidity

[Raskolnik]

21. If only dumb midwesterners could be as smart as you. n/t

[rudy23]

2. I want to address this every time it comes up-- Red America is a myth

"Red America" exists all across the USA, and covers most of the territory outside of cities and college towns.

A big reason many people in the South and rural areas vote Republican against their interests, is because they don't (publicly) belittle them. I think the onus should be on Democrats to get their message out to these voters without talking down to them. If we wait until people are worthy of our message before we ask for their votes, we are guaranteeing that they won't support us.

[Taverner]

3. Good point. Let me counter (slightly)

Their votes do count more than ours in densly populated areas. Electoral college.

[mitchtv]

4. I am sick of that BS

I a am tired of comments like 'SF values", and 'Northeastern liberal'. I am sick of farmers with their outstreched hands voting Repub and complaining about welfare too, and gov't make work freeways where there is no need , while necesary repairs in populated/developed areas are deferred.
also if you are a fucking idiot who doesn't believe in science / evolution etc, don't expect people to cow tow

[Taverner]

11. Yep

I personally am damn proud of my San Francisco Values. It means I value equality, freedom and human worth. Sounds pretty damn good to me.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

18. Perfect segue to Dr. Dean...

I don't remember his exact words, but he said something about it being a sign of respect when you ask someone for their vote. Screw the 30% loony tune demographic in this country - focus on the remaining 70%. The 70% who have the same interests (jobs, education, health care, retirement, etc.) at heart. This blue/red crap is defeatist - purple is much more representative of the country as a whole.

[hughee99]

24. I take it you're not referring to Dean's comments

about how southerners need to stop basing their votes on god, gays and guns. While many may agree that Dean was right, I don't think he helped convert any voters by saying this, and I don't think anyone saw it as a sign of respect. Don't get me wrong, I like Dean and his 50 state strategy, I just don't think this comment helped the cause any.

[hughee99]

20. I agree...

Though having grown up in a small town in a very blue state, most of my family is from the rural south. They're religious enough to go to church every week, though don't spend any time talking about it (not fundies), they like watching Nascar to varying degrees, own guns and vote for Democrats. I think they get very put off by comments alluding to, or outright saying that people just like themselves (other than the way they vote), are a bunch of dumb, hick, slack-jawed, fundie, bigoted rednecks who wouldn't know the right candidate to vote for unless he showed up on a-la Jesus on beer can and told them who to vote for. (By the way, this is not my description, a friend of mine phrased it this way in front of my parents, not knowing their background, and making for quite an awkward moment).

[TheFarseer]

29. I must agree with you

Some of it is our fault and some of it is republicans doing a good job using frames, but rural voters have been alienated to a large degree. Let's face it, people in Western Nebraska were not going to vote for John Kerry. He came across as someone who would look down on us 'hicks' and wouldn't understand what we are going through. Bush did a halfway capable job of pretending.

[fujiyama]

27. .

[depakid]

5. I'm for witholdiung appropriations

from areas that consistently vote Republican.

People who support slashing government services should be the FIRST on the list for having their services cut.

Want to be a "rugged individualist?" OK- wish granted.

[mitchtv]

7. One thing they must learn

TAXES=SERVICES

[MadHound]

9. Oh, yeah, that's a good idea

And not only will you be hurting Republicans who voted in so called red states, but Democrats and leftists as well. And quite frankly, all of this red state, blue state shit is just that, shit. Hell, California gave us Reagan, and now Missouri gave us McCaskill. All states are various shades of purple, and that changes with time. Geez, the Democrats control both Houses and the govenorships, can't you ease up on this crap now?

But apparently it's still loads of fun to bash the Midwest for ancient history, never mind the present. Well, if you do decide to withhold appropriations and such, just ask yourself one thing: Where the fuck are you going to get your heirloom, organic fruits, vegetables and meat? After all, you shut one farmer down out here, you're shutting us all down, including those of us liberals out here who are quietly trying to re-invent farming.

So my suggestion to you is to knock off with stereotyping and broad brush attacks, realize that what you condesendingly term "flyover country" is a very diverse place, with all shades of the political spectrum. Oh, and nix the idea of collective punishment.

[depakid]

32. Perhaps you have a better solution?

I mean seriously.

Where should the money and the services go? To places like Eastern Oregon, where people constantly, continually and consistently vote against any and all efforts to help them?

I'm sorry, but folks there fuck EVERYONE over- and their representatives make make it damn near it impossible to help anyone anywhere.

Seems to me that allocating limited resources toward those who support and appreciate them makes good sense. Here in Portland, we have to raise our taxes to keep some limited access to art and science in our schools. We do that because we care about our children.

So what do the folks in Eastern Oregon do? File court cases to try to keep us from doing that- They'd prevent us from helping out our own children- much less theirs.

So I say again- not one nickel to those areas

[Raskolnik]

36. What do you think that even means?

So I say again- not one nickel to those areas

Its a cute slogan, but its absolutely meaningless.

Are you suggesting that any areas that vote for Republicans be defunded? What about areas that vote for fiscally conservative Democrats? What about areas that send a mixed representation to Congress? What about areas that send Republicans to Congress, but elect Democrats for their local representation? What about areas in which Republicans make up a majority by one person? What about areas in which Democrats are gaining momentum? Would you approve of a majority of Republicans cutting off every nickel of funding to areas that vote for Democrats?

[MadHound]

48. Wow, a mirror image

Just as intolerant, knee jerk, absolutist, black and white ideologically driven as any RW conservative, but coming from the left instead of the right. Wow, congratulations friend, you're even further into left field than I am. Either that or you have a particularly vindictive streak in you. Either way though, this sort of thought is just as damaging to this country coming from the left as it is coming from the right.

Playing little revenge games with funding and appropriations only lead to further shenanigans on the part of RWers, and around and around we go in a vicious circle, two snakes devouring each other, and nothing gets done, and the various situations get worse, and nothing is accomplished.

Yes, it sucks that Eastern Oregon is filing lawsuits against Portland over school funding. It is a waste of time and taxpayer money, but if you withhold appropriations for rural areas, all that's going to do is create an economic crisis that will drag down the state, hurt the small farmer, who actually might be more liberal than you think, remember where the progressive movements were born, and fail to hurt the corporate farmers, where the money is. And in all likelihood, they will pass appropriation withholdings against Western Oregon when they have the power, and gee, doesn't this start to sound like the old Cold War MAD? The truism back in the day is still true now, nobody wins a nuclear war, either a literal or political one.

And again, states, regions, counties aren't monolithically red or blue. We're all a shade of purple, and thus will be hurting those that are your natural allies. Do you really want to do that? Are you really willing to sacrifice those of us out here on the pyre of your vengeance? If so, then give me one good goddamn reason why I should ever support the party or your actions ever again! Quite frankly if it wasn't for the work of many good Democrats and liberals out in rural America, you wouldn't have gotten a Democratic majority in the Senate for sure, and possibly the House also. McCaskill was one of the tip over votes in the Senate, and like others she had to pull a serious bloc of voters from rural counties. Piss us off out here in the rural areas will not help motivate our help in the next election, and then you can kiss your Senate, House and Presidential aspirations good bye.

Look, this is a diverse country, and the way our political system is set up the best way to change things is through consensus building amongst a diverse group of people. It also happens to be the legal and moral way to proceed. If you start playing petty political games with government funding, you are going to open up a Pandora's box that will lead to our country's destruction. Yes, it is a slow, frustrating, agonizing process, but it's the best we've got. I understand your frustration, and the soul satisfaction you would gain from such a move, but it is for the best of the country that you don't follow through on it.

[rudy23]

54. Bravo! nt

[leftofthedial]

6. after Nixon twice, raygun twice

poppy

and king george twice

Red Murkans already got wha tthey deserve

except for the part where we round them all up and put them in concentration camps.

[ComerPerro]

8. see, threads like this are fucking bullshit and piss me off like crazy

slam the midwest all you want, but say even one thing that is slightly negative towards the south and you get shouted down and your posts get delted.

This is bullshit

[Taverner]

10. I'm not just slamming the midwest, I'm slamming all "red states"

...speficially for electing Bush I, II and Raygun

[ComerPerro]

12. which must be why you said this:

Keep in mind the "heartland" of America (with the exception of free-thinking Iowa) takes the most in subsidies, benefits the most from Democratic programs, and is in the most need for jobs, SS, etc...yet they vote against their own best interests time after time.


By the way, I wouldn't be too quick to judge if I were you. I may live in Kansas, but at least we weren't stupid enough to vote for a second-rate actor as our Governor. Twice.

[Taverner]

13. Well yeah, I consider the heartland to be pretty much all of red america

South, Mountain States, the South, etc...

Basically the assholes who voted for Bush twice just so boys couldn't kiss.

I just thought the term Cornhole, USA might bother some people.

[RC Quake]

22. Free thinking Iowa elected...

Fred Grandy, Gopher from The Love Boat before his election in 1986 to the United States House of Representatives from the state of Iowa.

Hmmmmmmm...

[Selatius]

14. Hey, I live in Mississippi. You can denigrate my fellow citizens all you want.

I'm not the one who voted for Bush...twice.

I'm not the one who voted to amend the state constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman only.

I'm not the one who voted for a Big Business lobbyist to be the governor of Mississippi, Haley Barbour, and because of that, I don't think anybody but Barbour should get the blame for the over 200 dead bodies on the Mississippi coast after Katrina.

[Left Is Write]

44. You do realize it was a midwestern state - Minnesota - that soundly

rejected Reagan in 1984 when all other states gave their electoral votes to him.

The only non-Reagan areas were Minnesota and Washington, DC.

Minnesota also rejected the Bushes.

[rudy23]

15. Maybe we should leave the broad generalizations to the Repukes

Part of the appeal of the Democratic party is that they understand nuance and complexity. So any type of stereotyping, whether it be Wal-Mart shopping, Nascar watching Southerners, farmers in the heartland, east coast elites, or west coast fruitcakes, is wrong.

[Left Is Write]

52. We're supposed to understand nuance and complexity, yes...

but I see an awful lot of black-and-white, good-vs-bad thinking around DU.

I live in a so-called red state. I consistently vote for Democrats, and I have since I turned 18 more than 22 years ago. I volunteered for the local party and I support Democratic causes. There are more and more people like me coming out of the woodwork in my area, but we won't gain any ground by broad-brush slamming and insulting those whom we wish to win over.

[rudy23]

16. And let's not forget, much of "Blue America" went 40-49% for Bush nt

[ComerPerro]

19. very true. And even Caw-ee-fawn-ee-yah has Ahhnold as Gov

[Pyrzqxgl]

30. and those of us in San Diego are stuck with Duncan Hunter & Braying Bilbray!

[JacksonWest]

17. Who was the last Democrat President" from a "blue state"?

Clinton is from Arkansas. Red, last time I checked.
Gore(since he won the popular vote) was from Tennessee(which he didn't carry when he ran)
Carter was from Georgia.
Ike was from Texas.
Which brings us to Kennedy.

Odd, that the so called "red states" produce so many Democrat leaders. Also, with your asinine sentiments, how can you possibly hope to convince "red states" that they are voting against their interests? Your callous disregard and faction creating nation view makes it evident that the only people whose interests you care about are those that agree with you.

What this nation needs, and always has, and always will, is a leader that cares about all americans. If you cater only to your base, you create the current political climate. All great Americans have striven to help all americans. They strive to convince people to join them. Your statement is infuriating and immature.

[fhqwhgads]

25. i think you meant democrat-IC

don't understand why i still see the word "democrat" used as an adjective on du.

that aside, it's become so easy for people to label democrats from traditionally "blue" areas as northeastern libs, san francisco libs, liberal elites, etc. that our hand's been forced. the only nationally electable democrats have to come from red states. i don't like it, but that's the way it seems to be.

[JacksonWest]

26. Why don't you like it?

Who cares where someone is from? If you think that the liberal label is why Kerry lost the last election, you're wrong. Not standing up for yourself or being able to articulate clear positions seems to be a bigger problem then origin.

[fhqwhgads]

50. i meant...

...that i don't like that nationally electable democrats seem to have come from red states. it shouldn't matter where they're from (in other words, you and i agree, jacksonwest).

on the other point, i agree that there were numerous reasons why kerry lost. but it does seem like northeasterners in particular are portrayed as somehow out-of-touch with "real" or "mainstream" america. not sure why...i'm a northeasterner through-and-through and i really don't see why i'm so different from people in the so-called heartland, but that's how we're thought of.

[VOX]

35. Ike was Republican. And it's **DEMOCRATIC** leaders, NOT Democrat!

Please don't fall for that right-wing trick of dropping the "ic" from the adjective "Democratic." We have Democratic leaders, you vote Democratic, you belong to the Democratic Party. You are a Democrat, but you vote for Democratic candidates. Using the "Democrat" bit is a slur -- it comes from mouths of Rush and the like. They think it has a more negative sound to it. (The "rat" business.) Even Reagan had the courtesy to use "Democratic" propery when speaking about opposition party.

It would be like calling a Republican a "Republic." It doesn't even make any sense. The "Republic Party." How about those "Republic leaders?"

See the difference?

And Ike was a Republican, not a Democrat. He happened to be a moderate, who warned all citizens about the threat of the military-industrial complex. Rather prophetic.

[Raskolnik]

23. What does California "deserve" for giving us Nixon & Reagan?

After all, if you hicks in California were a little more sophisticated, the rest of the nation wouldn't have had to suffer under those fools, right?

[mitchtv]

33. take more money from our tax dollars

to support the 'welfare states' or should I say receiver states. after all, those Hollywood values and all. teachin' that 'science' in Berkeley and Stanford

[Raskolnik]

34. Huh?

Are you trying to agree with the OP, or are you trying to make your own point?

[mitchtv]

37. shouldv'e added

:sarcasm: with apolopgies to Sens, Byrd, Lott, Stevens, et al..

[Raskolnik]

39. That does nothing to clarify your point

What are you trying to say?

[mitchtv]

43. you asked what penalty Calif should pay

I told you.

[Raskolnik]

46. I never said California should be penalized. I asked what the OP thought...

California deserved for voting for Nixon and Reagan. If the OP genuinely feels that geographic areas should be punished for voting for candidates he finds distasteful, then I would think that would also extend to areas such as California.

Do you agree with the OP?

Personally, I think that such a proposition is ludicrous. The OP's point is ridiculous, absolutely unrealistic, and comes with the added bonus of being incredibly condescending as well. Quite a trifecta, really.

[cboy4]

38. Oh stop. If you're unhappy with the OP generalizing, why do you

turn around and play the same game?

California did not give the country Nixon and Reagan. It was sorta a country-wide effort electing those nitwits. No?

I realize you're probably being sarcastic in your tone, but like everyone else who's defensive about where they live, so am I.

As you know, California hands over a MASSIVE chunk of electoral votes to the Democrats just about every four years, so when it comes to presidential politics, you can't blame this blue state for too much.

[Raskolnik]

41. My apologies, I should have been more clear:

I was trying to make a point that the OP's kind of generalizations are, at best, worthless. For every dope that's come out of the red states, there's an equally significant dope that's emerged from a blue state.

Of course I don't think California should be punished for producing Nixon & Reagan--that would be as stupid as...well...punishing midwestern states for voting for Republicans more often that would be wise.

Sorry if I gave offense.

[cboy4]

42. No problem. I agree with what you say about the generalizations.

They are worthless and I can see how they're also offensive.

[mitchtv]

47. Of course a case can be made that certain Dem states are routinely

punished by locally important cuts in programs, like bases and DHS services to protect flea markets and doll museums

[TheFarseer]

28. My native 3rd district constantly votes for a Rep

that has their own crazy agenda which is often in direct conflict with the interests of the district. Too bad.

[Odin2005]

31. The red-state/blue-state divide is a myth invented by the MSM

It's all a bunch of bullshit.

[cboy4]

40. Yup, I can see how this would be offensive to progressives who

live in red states.

[Left Is Write]

45. It is.

[Amonester]

49. and this is a somber image of what they get:

The morans deserve it!

The tragic part is the world gets it too but does not deserve it. :cry:

[Doctor_J]

51. How many times can you say this?

we should immediately use our congressional power to CUT THE RED STATES OFF FROM ALL OF THEIR GOVERNMENT MONEY. The blue states subsidize the red states while the red states whine incessantly about big, intrusive government. CUT THEM OFF NOW! They have voted for "small government conservatism" 6 straight times now, so let's give it to them.

[Raskolnik]

53. You're not serious, are you?

*Please* tell me you're not actually serious.

[rudy23]

55. Oh, he's dead serious. And you wonder why "Red Staters" accuse liberals of talking down to them nt