Michigan's Recent Job Loss Compares To The Great Depression

[BeatleBoot]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061117/UPDATE/611170449&SearchID=73264037744898

Michigan's recent job loss compares to the Great Depression

A highly-regarded economic forecast to be released in Ann Arbor this morning compares Michigan's massive job loss in the past six years to the Great Depression and paints a bleak picture for the next two years.

Michigan lost 336,000 jobs in the past six years and it will lose another 33,000 in the next two years -- the longest stretch of employment loss in the state since the 1929 stock market crash plunged the nation into bleak times, say University of Michigan economists Joan Crary, George Fulton and Saul Hymans. This time the pain is focused solely in Michigan because of its reliance on the auto industry.

"Michigan is being battered by one of the most tenacious economic storms ever confronted by its citizenry," the economists write in their 28-page forecast. "At no time in its history, or at least as far back as the records take us, has the state endured such a drawn-out disturbance."

<snip>

[nam78_two]

1. Kick for MI

We just moved out of Michigan and when we rented the U-haul they told us that they are running out of U-hauls because of so many people leaving and so few coming back.

[TahitiNut]

2. We have a similar issue with rental cars.

The last time I recall the state was losing population was in the 70s ... when I left. The Arab oil embargo set the gashog auto industry in a tailspin that it never actually recovered from.

[nam78_two]

17. yeah I feel sad for MI

I have been hearing for years that a biotech industry is coming up around the Ann Arbor area but don't see signs of it yet :-/

[Octafish]

25. Management.

It wasn't beauty that killed the beast, it was greed.

[amandabeech]

16. It was the same story in the early '80s.

I'd just finished grad school and was starting an internship in Texas.

The stream of vehicles leaving Michigan bound for Texas was unbelievable.

Nearest city of any consequence to where I grew up had 20%+ unemployment, and its still a shell of its former self.

[justice1]

20. That's when my family left.

We ended up in Nebraska, but several family members moved to Texas. They joked that there were so many people from Michigan in their town, they were considering renaming it Michigan City.

[amandabeech]

29. LOL!! n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

23. As it was in the late 80's. It's been a slow and steady road down for

over 25 years. My father was employed by Schlitz/Stroh's and lost his job in '89 along with over half of the beer industry.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. I've been saying we are going straight into a great depresion

kindof scenario for a while

Damn it... what will it take for Muricans to realize it?

The problem is they will blame the democrats for it, you watch

[Bozita]

4. Since that article was written, 14,000 more Ford employees getting axed

This is really scary!


http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061211/BUSINESS09/61211011/-1/BUSINESS

Article published Monday, December 11, 2006

Ford offers new buyouts to salaried work force


DEARBORN, Mich. — Ford Motor Co. plans to begin the latest wave of white-collar buyout offers today as part of its previously announced goal of cutting about 14,000 salaried jobs this year.

Employees of the nation’s second-largest automaker who get the offers will have until the week of Jan. 5 to decide whether to accept, Ford spokesman Tom Hoyt said.

Dearborn-based Ford cut 4,000 salaried positions in the first quarter of this year and in September announced it would cut the equivalent of about 10,000 additional salaried jobs through early retirement and buyout packages.

The 14,000 jobs is about one-third of its North American white-collar work force.

more...

[Lipton64]

5. It's got to do with the American auto industry's love affair with SUVs and gas-guzzling pick-ups....

Had they spent more time researching and developing hybrid and "gas-sipping" counterparts with better fuel economy instead of worrying about vehicles that only fat-ass American Republikkkan consumers and soccer moms with inferiority complexes drive then maybe they wouldn't be in the dilemma they're in now. I heard a saying once basically to the effect: if you do the right thing it will eventually pay off in the end.

They sadly ignored that common sense and are now paying for it with their jobs....

Had the "Big 3" chosen not to invest in smog-guzzlers then maybe they would be in a much better economic position at the moment, no? Move to Florida, Arizona, or Nevada, those 3 states have surging growth in various industries. In the Deep South states like South Carolina and Mississippi several car plants have been recently built by the likes of Nissan and BMW. Jobs are being created - just not by the American auto industry in the over-taxed Midwest where they only cared about making tanks to bore grooves into the road instead of making cars.

I'm sorry but I lost my sympathy for the American auto industry long ago. While both Asian and European car companies gleefully invested in the South and West - thus expanding the area where they provide jobs and thus providing a broader area of sympathy for their workers and for their companies instead of the stupid American car corporations who only located their factories in the Midwest.

Here's a news flash to the Big 3 and any of their apologists:

Had you invested in and built up automotive planets in the South and West where people are in desperate need for jobs and who are frequently made fun of for being poor and uneducated - maybe now that the shoe is on the other foot more of the South and West would give a shit about the Midwest's plight. But since they screwed us(I'm a proud Southerner from the Southwest Florida region) by not investing in our regions more then obviously why should we care for something that doesn't affect us at all?

Instead of building more plants in icy Michigan or freezing Indiana they should have invested more in Oklahoma and Georgia - maybe then they would have more sympathy with Middle-Americans.

[spoony]

6. Piss off.

Your post reeks of all kinds of elitist, prejudiced bullshit. Hundreds of thousands here are suffering and your compassionate response is essentially, "Boo hoo, Michigan sucks, long live the South!" That bunch of non sequitor rot is like pissing on steel workers b/c their employers didn't have factories in Vegas or some such meaningless, mean-spirited crap.

And, last time I checked, Michigan IS MIDDLE AMERICA.

[Lipton64]

8. Move to Las Vegas.....

Not trying to offend you at all, just giving my 2 cents. My cousin works for an employment agency in the Vegas metro area and she told me that after Katrina they had special job fairs for Katrina and Rita evacuees and they found over 5,000 of them good-paying jobs in various fields. And that's not what surprised me, what surprised me was that she told me there were still thousands of un-filled positions in various fields!! Move out there. It's warm and it never rains and there are jobs-coming-out-of-their-collective-dry-ass.

I mean nobody gave us any sympathy back in the day. When our economy went bust in the 60s(my grandparents came from Alabama and Mississippi and then moved to Florida) in the local mining industry nobody offered us help or heard our cries when we whined. We moved on and built up our lives elsewhere. There are plenty of jobs in Florida. It recently passed the 19 million people mark. Another 2 years and it'll be bigger than New York and will become the 3rd largest state. I'm sure they can absorb at least another half a million people from Michigan over the next 5 years given all the jobs I'm sure will be created....

[spoony]

10. No one gave you sympathy so you

"pay it forward" by not having sympathy for us? That isn't only irrational, it's merciless. This area is almost all blue collar blue staters, and we've always strived for workers' rights, everywhere. Part of that is the belief that you shouldn't have to move your family 2000 miles to make a living.

[cap]

46. yup... move to right to work states

lose the union. That's why the jobs went there. It's no reflection on the working folks in Michigan. They were victimized by poor management and then shafted by a lack of investment in MI by the auto companies.

Most of the newly employed in the South lack union protection

[Selatius]

51. None of the Nissan or BMW plants in places like Mississippi or Alabama are unionized at all.

The workers are at the mercy of management, and that opens the door for abuse of employees.

[knitter4democracy]

48. Not trying to offend? Um . . . did you re-read your post?

The OP is about how Michigan is hurting, perhaps, dying, and your only answer is to move to a "Right to Work" state where they can't even keep doctors, the malpractice rates are so high? Wow. How compassionate. :eyes:

[knitter4democracy]

47. Thank you! I was thinking the same thing.

I am also sick and tired of hearing whiny crap about our weather. We have great weather of all kinds, and housing is cheap, and we have great universities, and even middle class people can afford houses near lakes. We have an amazing state, and after living elsewhere, I am proud to be back home. I'm not leaving.

[Bozita]

12. question: If not for the UAW, what would the import mfgers be paying their US help?

I'm sure it'd be more than $5.15/hour.

After such a nice critique of the industry, I'd be interested in your thoughts.

[TahitiNut]

14. GM has had plants in Georgia, Missouri, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Tennessee and Canada for over 30 yrs

I couldn't even begin to list the assembly plants and factories all over the US for just GM alone, let alone Ford and Chrysler. The claim they didn't have plants in the south and west would be laughable if it waasn't so pitifully ill-informed.

If you're actually interested, try looking for once: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:General_Motors_factories

Here's just ONE example ...

Arlington Assembly is a General Motors automobile factory in Arlington, Texas. The plant has operated for more than 50 years, and today manufactures large SUVs based on GM's GMT900 platform:

* Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon
* Chevrolet Suburban/GMC Yukon XL
* Cadillac Escalade

The Arlington plant was opened in 1954 to assemble both automobiles and aircraft, but has focused on the former use for most of its history. The factory was the site of assembly for many large GM cars, including the 1980s Chevrolet Monte Carlo, 1990s Chevrolet Impala, and late-model Chevrolet Silverado pickup trucks. The plant occupies 250 acres (1,000,000 square meters). Arlington Assembly was the last GM B-body manufacturing facility prior to the conversion for SUV production.

So much for where the gas-guzzlers are made. Happy? :eyes:

[amandabeech]

18. Do you actually think that there are no Middle-Americans living

in Michigan?

I'm from there and I can guarantee that the place is full of them and they aren't any different than the Middle Americans anywhere else in the country, including Florida, a place that I have visited. Have you ever been to Michigan?

Why blame the folks who work in the plant for the idiotic decisions made by management?

My uncle worked on the line for GM for over 25 years. Believe me, no one asked him what he thought about what product he should be assembling five years in the future.

You chose a cross as your avatar. I don't recognize much Christian charity in your post, just a mean bitterness that would wound the heart of your Savior.

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. The wife of a supplier and daughter of an industry foreman thanks

you. :hi: :applause:

[amandabeech]

30. You are very welcome!

From the daughter of an autobody repairman, who bumped out a lot of bad designs in his time.

[Vitruvius]

45. MANAGEMENT fouled up, and the auto WORKERS lost their jobs --

which is why I have total sympathy for unemployed autoworkers and just wish that there were some way to throw the bosses in prison for their venal stupidity.

[Selatius]

50. Why the fuck are you blaming workers for the stupidity and greed of management???

If you ever wanted to win the vote of Democrats, you just lost a shitload of votes from the Northeast by bashing northern workers.

[Hidden Stillness]

7. Disaster Caused by the Industry Itself

The entire problem has been caused by the management of the automobile corporations, and their greedy, short-term-planning on every issue. Their entire attitude, from trying to kill the efforts of Ralph Nader and the other consumer and safety advocates, to trying to take back everything unions ever won or negotiated, to refusing to change with the times and give people the newer features they were starting to ask for and not find in American vehicles, their whole attitude, has been to beat down everyone else's voice, and keep market share cornered for themselves, even as the world changed around them.

As long ago as the '70s and '80s, they were working these deals with the State, where they would cheat their way out of most or all of their corporate texes, if they promised to stay here for some long-term number of years, and over and over again violated the deal, with no consequences. Over the past several years, Gov. Granholm has tried to negotiate very favorable deals with them, with the same tax-dodges, etc., and they no longer, (since NAFTA), even work. Now, the taxes being removed is no longer even good enough--they want slave labor, no pollution laws, no safety laws, no benefits for workers, and salaries worked down to Third World levels. This is all a structural problem, caused by the endless greed and stupidity of the capitalists themselves, and not by any up-or-down of the economy itself. These bastards brought this whole thing on.

[Bozita]

9. NOT the industry, it's the management! NOT the UAW, NOT the workers!

The fucking management.

And take a look at who's paying?

Everyone BUT management.

Ford Motor will still have a luxury box at the upcoming Superbowl.

What me, worry?

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. But that is the Murican way, not kidding here

[TahitiNut]

13. Canard. Maybe there're a few things you haven't considered.

The greatest 'hit' to the American automotive industry was from Japan and Germany.

(1) Much of the industrial production facilities of Japan and Germany were destroyed during WW2. With the assistance of the US, that capacity was rebuilt - with NEWER, more modern, and more cost-effective technologies and processes, particularly steel. The US steel industry OWNERSHIP was far more interested in running it into the ground and extracting the profits than in making upgrade investments, despite tax incentives to do so.

(2) Both Japan and Germany have far more 'socialized' medical care and pension systems - lowering the direct corporate labor costs. On top of that, the Japanese exporters were subsidized and they erected protective barriers to (US) imports.

(3) Both Japan and Germany exist with long-established public infrastructures which make smaller vehicles far more popular with their consumers. Driving distances are shorter and both countries have ALWAYS been oil importers. The American consumer STILL loves his SUV and V-8 and that niche is both totally monopolized by the US industry and relatively unique in the world - thus, there's little overseas market for such vehicles.

(4) Japanese (and German) management is compensated, on average, a maximum of 10-15 times the amount that the average employee is compensated. An American CEO collects compensation that HUNDREDS of times the compensation of the average employee - and that obscenely high compensation is mirrored across the executive ranks of the company, not just the CEO.


The issues are far more complex than the simplistic "blame the workers" sound bites that have flown fast and furious for over 30 years. Capital has been crossing borders freely for decades, but products have not. The international system has favored capital over labor for decades.

[Hidden Stillness]

15. I Think You Misunderstood My Message

I thought I understood your post until the very end. Your phrase "blame the workers" makes no sense to me--just to be clear, do you think I was blaming the employees of these corporations? That would be insane. I thought I made it clear during the message several times--"management," "the capitalists," etc. I blame management, and stated it during the message. Blaming the workers would be ridiculous; they made the profits--there would be nothing if not for them.

[leftofthedial]

19. the loss of middle class wealth

over the past five years probably exceeds the Great Depression

[ScreamingMeemie]

22. After months of seeing posts like this drop... it's good to see people

paying attention. Too bad it's too late for those of us who used to be middle class in MI.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=234120

It's been going on for some time.

[faithnotgreed]

52. thank you for posting that link mrs g - as with many others i am

incredibly sorry for all the people you mention which of course makes up our communities, and creates - or destroys - the future of countless numbers of families

my sorrow is of no use to the devastated but those who care so much - like you - who live and work amidst those deeply affected are an essential part of continuing and preserving humanity
it is sometimes tough to come by as you well know, and all the more important to keep the issue alive and in front of anyone who might listen

thank you so much for your humanity
you have consistently shown yourself to represent the best of who we need to be and i wish you and your family all continued happiness
and of course much love for those who are so deeply hurt by all the policies and people who have let them down in such a tragic way


and if i may ask i would like to send along a special hello to progmom and family
hope all is well .....

[onenote]

24. eye-catching but ultimately misleading headline

According to the story the unemployment level in Michigan is 6.6% (compared to 4.4% nationally). During the peak of the Great Depression, unemployment in the country topped 25% and, while the impact of the Great Depression was felt more strongly in rural than urban areas, unemployment in cities like Ann Arbor and Detroit topped 15%.

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. Do you know how rates were counted then...vs. now.

For instance, my mother in law (64) lost her job 3 years ago, her unemployment 2 years ago...and yet is still unemployed basically. She is not counted among MI's unemployed. It's a number's game. The state is suffering. I invite anyone to come up here, drive down Groesbeck, Gratiot or Woodward and gaze upon the number of empty shops.

[onenote]

27. I agree the state is suffering

I just think drawing comparisons to the Great Depression is inapt.

[ScreamingMeemie]

28. I don't. I am a real estate appraiser. In an average week of 20

appraisals, at least 5-8 are foreclosures. On my street alone there are 9 houses for sale, 4 are foreclosures. It's very real. And, on edit, at least 3-5 of the others are cash-out refi's for those hoping to "ride it out" and still keep their heads above water. People need to pay attention.

[Yavin4]

31. At The End of the Day, All MFG Jobs Will Be In China

The only reason why Japanese auto makers locate plants in the U.S. is to get around the import quotas. Without those quotas, those cars would be made in China as well. Every conceivable consumer product, except for perishables, can be and will be made in China. The only mfg left in the U.S. will be boutique mfg, like custom cars or motorcycles.

What's worse, there's really nothing that the politicians can do about it because China holds our debt as well.

[etherealtruth]

32. I consider myself lucky to be working here

I am working as a consultant ... no bennies, no security. Yet, as a Michigan resident, i consider myself lucky to have a (read any) job.

[sarcasmo]

33. If I can make it here I can make it anywhere.

This doesn't even come close to the real number. If you added in all the people who have had unemployment run dry and are no longer in the system it would be at least fifteen percent. Kick and Nom from someone living through this nightmare.

[ScreamingMeemie]

40. If you factored in the ridiculous Ford and American Axle buyouts...

People taking a $50,000 buyout at the age of 38-40 with no real prospects for the future. I shudder to think.

[Chulanowa]

34. According to the other board I frequent...

This depression is entirely the cause of taxes. The rich are never bad or greedy unless they get elected.

[Ksec]

35. Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, PA, all depression era economies.

My township here in eastern Ohio has the second highest unemployment rate in the entire US. We used to be one of the best economies in the country, with good wages, bennies etc. and are victims to corporate greed, outsourcing and such.

[tom_paine]

36. This is bad. A tragedy for tens of thousands of families

Bushevik numbers are lies. Absolutely 100% Soviet folderol and hogwash.

"Full employment" my ass!

Remember during Clinton, you could damned near have a new job in a week, if you really wanted one. And that was true, I think for at least two-thirds of job fields. THAT was full employment and all boats WERE rising (although the gap between rich and poor continued to widen, albeit slowly, during the Age of Clinton).

[thingfisher]

38. The Michigan auto industry

should have seen the writing on the wall and adapted to changing times in order to compete with Honda, Toyota, etc. Rather than do that they continued to produce the gas guzzlers that had a high profit margin and sold to the well off consumer.
Suppose Americans were able to buy high quality, high gas mileage autos like Honda has been producing, only from Detroit instead? What they gave us were k-cars and such instead.
The ruin of the industry must ultimately rest at the feet of short sighted greedy for short term profit management.

[blues90]

37. I think it's horrid stuff

So many people who worked hard for many years are now made into nothing for corporate mistakes and greed .

It is happening everywhere because one states fall spreads out everywhere .

People try to just make a fair living and are stepped on as if they do not matter and they are the ones who made it all possible for these huge pig corps to get to where they are now . All off the backs of the blue collar worker . This is what you get for trying to make an honest living .

[w4rma]

39. The results of 'free' trade policies. (nt)

[Strawman]

41. And pretty soon the severance pay will run out for even more people

It's bad. There has to be a solution on the table besides free college. What about the 50 year person who played by the rules and worked hard for 30 years and doesn't want to go back to college. How is that person going to keep their home and pay their bills?

We need wage insurance.

[gollygee]

42. Oh man are people having a hard time selling houses

we've had so many friends and neighbors move away :( And we have many many more who are seriously worried that they will be losing their jobs soon.

[ScreamingMeemie]

43. We had ours on the market for "looksee" for about 6 months.

You really can't compete against a 5% and above foreclosure rate. My father works for a major supplier that just offered the union buyout. They lost 150 employees in 2 hours... for $50,000. :(

[Javaman]

44. This could be termed, "the quiet depression"...

we live in a society that lauds the rich and condemns the poor.

That rewards outsourcing and criticizes the jobless.

we get these various overspun employment numbers that show jobs created but at the same time, unemployment goes up.

There are whole areas of this country experiencing depression like conditions, but the average person will never hear about it, because according to moron* or the MSM, the economy is going well.

We live in such a critical time in our nations history. The very society that we live in is crumbling at the edges but the only thing we are told to look at is the middle.

As the gap between the have mores and the have even less continues to expand, these quiet depressions through out our nation will become more and more common place, until one day, it will be the accepted norm.

That day may not be as far away at all.

[knitter4democracy]

49. I've been saying this for a couple of years now.

Here we have one of the best places to live on earth, but we can't get the jobs to stay. Gov. Granholm is doing her best, every city and county is doing their best, and many of us are doing our best to keep people and jobs here, but it's really hard when the main manufacturers lay off or fire people by the thousands.

Honestly, though, I wouldn't live anywhere else. I've lived in Ohio, and I've travelled over most of this country (as well as to other countries). None of them compared to Michigan. Ours is an amazing state with wonderful people. Don't like the weather? Just wait--it'll change soon. We have so many lakes and rivers and creeks that even the middle class can afford to live on water, should anyone choose. We have good hunting and fishing, great boating and swimming, awesome cultural offerings, and two Big Ten universities. It's a wonderful state, and we're constantly sold short. It's time to turn that around.