We need some serious prison reform

[BushOut06]

I've been watching these "documentaries" about various prisons throughout the country. I also have several family members who work in a maximum security prison in Texas, and I hear all sorts of stories from them as well.

Make no mistake, I believe that criminals should be punished. But it seems that the current prison system is designed for failure. You put people in an environment where gangs rule rampant, where the inmate-guard ratio is skewed, and brutality is quite common. It seems that instead of rehabilitating inmates, prison serves as a "university" for inmates to learn new crime techniques, and to network with other criminals. That's assuming they survive their sentence. How many inmates are killed or seriously wounded in prison? In many cases, it can be a very real "kill or be killed" environment.

One thing that would have an immediate impact would be the decriminalization of drugs, and these ridiculous "three strikes" laws. I don't know the exact statistics (maybe someone on here would), but I'd say a large percentage of people locked up in prison are there because of either drug charges or repeat offenses (and those are likely drug charges as well).

[derby378]

1. DancingBear, I hope you're reading this...

:hi:

[Hippo_Tron]

2. Yup, drug policy reform is the first step

A huge percentage of the inmate population is nonviolent durg offenders. Prisons are overcrowded because we send nonviolent drug offenders to prion and often they serve sentences that are longer than those of violent sex offenders.

Once our prisons are not overcrowded and as much of a financial burden I think that will provide an impetus for prison reform.

[BushOut06]

3. It's typical of the hypocritical Neo-con solution to prison overcrowding

They always love to say that we should "reform" education and other programs, rather than "throwing money at the problem". Yet that is exactly what they do when it comes to the problem of overcrowded prisons! Rather than address the problem itself, their only solution is to build more prisons - in which they toss even more "offenders" until those become overcrowded.

[radwriter0555]

4. Yes. Completely decriminalize all drug use and possession. Remove the people from prison

who were convicted of these offenses, remove the offenses from all criminal records and your prisons would be almost EMPTY.

People could live their lives, they could medically and psychicly treat their addictions or their problems and not spend the rest of their lives being punished by a prison record for holding 2 joints of marijuana.

But even here will raise a hue and cry over the apparent inability of humans to be trusted with their own lives when it comes to the use of alleged mind altering substances. After all, the only good drugs to be jonesing for or addicted to or dependent on are the ones the GOVERNMENT or the PHARMACEUTICAL cos approve for you.

Never mind that there are more deaths from prescribed drugs than from illegal drugs, right?

[ThomCat]

5. Agreed. And more focus on actually rehabilitating people

instead of just punishing. Many of the people in prison could be helped by rehabilitation.

[sutz12]

6. Reverse the privatization of prisons.

It was one of the biggest growth industries in the '90's. Make cell renting illegal. I'm not sure of the term, but prisioners are being shipped around the country, while some states are renting cell space from other states.

They turned incarceration into a big business.

[sandnsea]

7. As long as people think punishment works

There will be those who take 'punishment' too far and create brutal environments.

Natural consequences work and is a necessary teaching tool. But so is self-worth, competence, contribution, and inherent human value.

Punishment does nothing but make individuals condemn themselves and conclude they are hopeless and worthless. Until we see the futility of punitiveness, torture won't stop and people won't rehabilitate. It's sad that we contribute to crime with the very attitudes and behaviors that we think will stop it.

[Totallybushed]

8. I don't know.

I think if a boy (or girl) won't learn once, he won't learn twice, so three strikes is pretty lenient. However, the drug laws are in serious need of reform. They're just a variation on Prohibition, and we all know how well that worked out.

[BushOut06]

10. Pretty lenient?

Let's say you get busted once for petty theft, another time for possessing crack. The next time you get busted for a crime, no matter how minor, you should get some hugely disproportionate sentence? How many people in these states are doing serious time for minor offenses, simply because of a zero-tolerance "three strikes" policy?

The law was designed to affect those who commit serious, violent offenses like rape, armed assault, etc. Instead, we see it being applied to drug offenders, petty theft cases, etc.

[Totallybushed]

14. Well, as I

stated earlier, I think the drug laws need some serious reform. And many of these crimes are serious. What about the guy that say served time for murder, then rape, then gets caught on some petty crime? I say, get him off the streets. If he's gotten caught 3 times, odds are he's done a lot more that he hasn't gotten caught for. Besides, he commits that 3rd crime knowing the penalty if he is caught. This is a risk that he willingly assumed, and I lack sympathy for the terminally stupid.

And is it "disproportionate", really? He's not going to jail for the petty theft, but for repeated offenses.

But I agree, drug offenses without victims should not be criminal. But as long as they are, they will most likely be included in 3-strike laws.

[ieoeja]

16. But are 3-Strikes laws for repeat offenders?

I remember when California first passed theirs. Shortly thereafter a 1st time offender was released from prison and murdered someone. The NRA then sued the State for not applying the 3-Strikes law on his 1st offense.

The State then admitted that they applied the law as advertised (repeat offender) instead of as written (three eligible offenses even if all three committed simultaneously). The State began applying the law as written thereafter.

That was many years ago. I don't know if they have rewritten the law since. Nor do I know if other states were just as flawed. I do know the law was not unintentionally flawed. The NRA was bragging that they wrote the law in this fashion on purpose.


Also, studies indicate the whole repeat offender will never clean up his act meme is incorrect. The vast majority of habitual criminals give up their criminal career between 30 and 40 years of age.

Finally, if you're just going to warehouse these people instead of making some attempt at rehabilitation, e.g. force them to attend & participate in schooling (not a whole lot of HS graduates end up in prison) while incarcerated, then why would we expect them to clean up their act, especially when their prison record disqualifies them for most jobs?

[Totallybushed]

17. Well,

the criminal DID commit the three offenses, didn't he? Still, that is fixable. As for the offender, I am not unsympathetic to the hard luck stories of many of these people. Some of them couldn't catch a break. But, still, society not only has a right, but a duty to protect itself.

As to why do we expect them to clean up their act, well maybe we don't, and that's why we are willing to warehouse them. After all, it hurts them worse than it does us.

In other words, I believe that we should make some attempt to help them rehabilitate, but in the final analysis, they, and they alone, are responsible for what they do, and they must bear the consequences of their law-breaking.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. OK, some rough numbers--

Approx 2/3 of people released from prison recidivate within 3 years. Approx 80% of inmates have been in prison before. (The difference between those 2 numbers is because subsequent sentences are generally longer than first sentences.) Federal prisons have a higher percentage of drug offenders than state prisons. IIRC Federal prisons are about 50% drug offenders. Many property offenders (burglars, armed robbers, etc.) committed their crimes to support their drug addictions. Thus, decriminalization of drugs & providing diagnosed addicts with their supplies so they wouldn't have to steal would cut out a lot of crime all by itself. Almost all prison inmates have histories of alcoholism and/or drug addiction. Most are victims of wildly dysfunctional early childhoods, with histories of physical, sexual & emotional abuse. I have good reason to believe that over half of young adult offenders are victims of childhood sexual abuse.

[RethugAssKicker]

13. Think about how these mens families are ruined...

The bread winner is thrown in jail, and when he comes out, what kind of job can he get with a felony on his record... So, he resorts to selling drugs and other crimes to survive and support his family... He is put on probation, and if he fails the drug test just once, he is back in jail.

And the children of these men suffer... grow-up in poverty, fatherless and with little hope... Its a vicious cycle.

[Jackpine Radical]

15. Amen.

[RethugAssKicker]

11. Couldn't agree more... It is proven with undisputed facts....

The criminal system is in itself a crime...

It is completely bias, and affects young black men disproportiantely... It is the new way of enslaving black men... Personally, I believe it is intentional.

Keep people locked up and take away their voting rights.... a major gain for Republicans!!... Its the only way they would ever win!!

[Mythsaje]

12. I don't think our present system is at all helpful to society...

If anything, it makes everything worse.