I think I'm ready to admit that I'm now

[cboy4]

okay with those red light traffic cameras.

I was initially opposed to them, but I just had a scary call after some A-hole blew a light at an unbelievable rate of speed.

I know the whole idea is big "brother'ish," but I have to admit.....even I no longer risk blowing red lights at intersections where I know there are cameras. I'm much more cautious and that's a good thing.

I couldn't live with myself if I wiped out a family just because I wanted to save one minute waiting at a light.

[derby378]

1. But must we embrace a culture of surveillance?

I understand your viewpoint, but I can never allow myself to get too comfortable with the idea of being watched. It's that whole Big Brother thing, you know.

[cboy4]

4. Well, I can tell you I don't like those downtown street cameras

which some cities have installed to supposedly help deter crime.

That goes too far.

And I don't like the freeway cameras in Scottsdale, Arizona that catch people speeding.

I don't care if people drive 75mph in a 65mph zone.

But I have major problems with people blowing red lights.

[MADem]

2. I don't have a problem with surveillance so long as it's posted

If you know, you have the choice to avoid the area if you don't want to be surveilled.

Fair warning, and community support, and there ya go. If the community opposes it, then don't put it in.

As far as traffic goes, though, I think it's helpful. One of the reasons that traffic runs so well at rush hour is because the guys monitoring traffic cams can see when some poor bozo breaks down and can send help.

[tridim]

3. Just wait until you get nailed for something you didn't do,

then try to convince the judge of your innocence.

After you're found guilty and pay your hefty fine (because "electronic cameras are never wrong"), come back here and post again.

[cboy4]

5. I would offer the solution is to slow down at a yellow instead

of speeding up to make it close.

I mean think about it....it's not the end of the world waiting at a red light.

How long will your journey be delayed? A couple minutes at the max?

Big deal.

[maxsolomon]

6. when the petroleum runs out, we won't have this problem

but i feel ya

[Der Blaue Engel]

7. It makes me sad that people need cameras to come to the conclusion

that running a red light isn't worth it. :(

There is no excuse for running a red light, ever. Who could possibly need to save a minute that badly? I've never understood this. I don't believe I've ever missed out on anything by sitting for a minute or two at a stoplight.

I had a boyfriend once who not only ran the lights as they turned red (it's only a "little" red, after all), but pushed the greens, as in jumping the gun as he saw the light on the cross traffic signal turning red. I finally got him to stop by pointing out that he would one day meet himself in the intersection.

[cboy4]

8. I agree. I know if I'm first at a red light, I always check both

ways now before I go on green.

People who run red light are usually driving very fast, because they've sped up to try to make the yellow.

[LSK]

9. I must disagree

The thought of blowing a red light never crossed my mind. A camera has nothing to do with me having common sense.

There are always going to be drunks and bad drivers and cameras do not prevent them from blowing these lights.

I would rather not live in a big brother world to marginally solve a problem.

[cboy4]

18. Never crossed your mind? Wow. You have to be one of the few

people on earth whose never continued past the limit line after the yellow has turned to red.

That's technically blowing a red light you know?

[LSK]

20. oh, you are talking about yellows???

I didnt know thats what we were talking about.

In that case, you cant generalize. The circumstances will always be different as to how fast you are going, when the light changes, whos right on your ass tailgating, how much traffic is around.

Cameras still have no influence on how I treat those situations.

[seabeyond]

21. i agree with you lsk

[novalib]

10. Good Boy! It's FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, You Know!

Outstanding, cboy4!

You have learned well.

Those cameras are, after all, for your own good.

It's asking too much for you and others simply to stop on red lights, I guess.

[immoderate]

11. I'm OK with the red light cameras.

I don't like the speeding cameras though. Speed limits are often inappropriate.

--IMM

[cboy4]

14. Me too. Hate the speeding cameras! :)

[Warpy]

12. The only problem is those left turns

People who enter the intersection and wait for the light to turn yellow so they can complete the turn will be nabbed for blowing through red lights (it's happened here), and that is an unfortunate and expensive flaw in the system.

Eventually they may compensate by either reaiming those cameras so they only show people who haven't entered the intersection making illegal turns or by using separate cameras for the left turn lane. Until then, a lot of us have modified our behavior or learned expensive lessons about the flaws in the system.

[cboy4]

15. Yea, that's unfortunate about getting nabbed in the middle of the

intersection, just because you can't get stuck.

I don't understand why they just don't throw those out.

It seems they should be able to distinguish between drivers who run red lights near the limit line, and those who get stuck in the middle.

[Warpy]

25. The problem is that if you're in the intersection

with another car on your back bumper, you have no choice. Plus, since you're going from a dead stop, you're exiting slowly and that camera WILL catch you, even if you've nearly completed the turn when the cameras flash.

I know quite a few people who have gotten nailed like that. The court is not amused and the tickets were upheld.

[cboy4]

27. I understand. I made a mistake responding to your first post....

I said:

Yea, that's unfortunate about getting nabbed in the middle of the intersection, just because you can't get stuck.

(when I should have said)

Yea, that's unfortunate about getting nabbed in the middle of the intersection, just because you get stuck.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. Cameras I'm okay with...

Onstar, which is really just another way to track people, I'm not. Our new-ish (bought from my parents) car has it and we cancelled the service and are now looking into disabling the mechanism. Any techies out there?

[cboy4]

22. MrsG, I found this website about disabling Onstar:

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/onstardisable/index.html

Maybe the service department of a car dealership can steer you in the right direction??

[ScreamingMeemie]

23. Thank you so much, cboy!

:loveya:

I'm going to ask around. My BIL works for Chrysler and can't help us with a GMC...I'm on it. Thanks for looking that up. :hug:

[cboy4]

24. Of course!!

:hug:

[seabeyond]

16. i dont need a camera for conscience to kick in that i not run a red light

if i thought they were not going ot go over board, or continue with surveillance at every chance, not abuse or desensitization to being watched i would not care. but i am not willing to allow the continue slide of freedom from big brother cause of the risk in red light

not only do i hold myself responsible for not running a red lite, before going into an intersection that is green for me, i look both ways, insuring myself the best i can to safety, not dependent on a camera

[sweetpotato]

17. I can remember it used to be jaw dropping to see someone run a red light

Not too long ago, I remember when it was a jaw dropping experience to see a car go through a red light. It almost NEVER happened.

I remember that when it was considered the appropriate thing to do if you were approaching an intersection, and the light was yellow, and there someone in the opposing lane waiting in the intersection to turn left, to STOP and let the person make their left turn BEFORE the light turned red. I remember the first time I encountered that this rule had changed. It was in the early 1990s and I was trying to make a left turn on my way to work. I was in the intersection, waiting to make my left turn, the light turned yellow and a car was approaching, so I started to turn, but had to slam on brakes as the driver blew through the light giving me a nasty look and a one fingered salute.

I was stunned.

Not too long ago, I watched as seven cars went through the red light at a very busy intersection. the police in this city don't seem to care. I have even seen drivers stop at a red light and then proceed through the intersection as if there is a new "proceed on red" law that has gone into effect and I know nothing about it.

If you don't like the cameras, come on down to SC. The police have to actually see you commit a driving offense with their own eyes before they can cite you for it - cameras don't count.

[treestar]

19. Amazing how it is always assumed to be a purposeful act

The most dangerous people are the ones who just "know" they never run a red light because they haven't done it on purpose and assume that they are never ever guilty of inattention. Anyone can be.

Slow down for the yellow and be very careful of following a truck through - they can have the yellow and be long enough and going slow enough that if you are behind them and not seeing the light, you have the red.

Also don't go on green, wait a second, the red light runner is going to do it most likely in the first second when the light turns red (Calif. is great for having an all-red second).

Also, a stale green - slow down, because it may turn yellow too soon and you are going too fast too stop without slamming on the brakes.

[EnviroBat]

26. I can't understand why the rest of the country can't get with that..

The "all red second" is one of the most accident reducing measures a traffic department can adopt. I was almost killed 20 years ago by someone who ran a red light on a two-lane divided highway. Was a drunk kid, so he would have run it anyway, but if that light hadn't turned green, I wouldn't have pulled out in front of him to begin with.

[blues90]

28. I don't agree at all

I got one of those tickets and I was well past the intersection and did not run the red , it was a 1.5 second yellow light . I LA calif if you slam on the breakes you will get rear ended , no question .

This ticket was $350 , when I went to court to fight it the judge told me my stop watch was useless , it is measured in nano seconds . the actual ticket is $85 , where does the other $265 go ? Now today I was at the same intersection and saw at least 2 cars make a left and they were both caught in the red . Here the only way you can make a left is on yellow but 1.5 seconds kills this and here a left on yellow has been the norm for years . You cannot win the ticet in court , if you want to try you deal with a tech , not a cop, a tech and timed photo's .

I have never been in a accident and had a perfect record and I don;t run red lights , as I said the catch is the yellow 1.5 second bleep .

So they can shove these big brother cameras , perhaps if the large amount of fines went to new orleans victims then at least I would feel better about being shafted for $350 that I had to do without alot to pay .

[benEzra]

29. It's a revenue-generation issue...

ensuring yellow lights are long enough so fewer people get caught in can't-stop/can't-go limbo has IIRC been shown to reduce red-light running more than cameras--and, unlike cameras, doesn't result in a 50% increase in rear-end collisions as people slam on brakes the instant they see yellow.

The reason extending yellows isn't front-and-center on the agenda is that (1) it doesn't result in increased revenue, and (2) there aren't dozens of companies with immense financial interests in the outcome pushing yellow extension.

Red light cameras, on the other hand, (1) result in loads of revenue, and (2) offer immense financial incentives to their manufacturers to push them on as many cities as possible. (A lot of these contracts are set up so that the camera manufacturer/contractor gets a cut of the ticket revenue they generate.)

I agree with some posters above that speed-limit cameras are worse, though.