Hillary and Obama supporters are like an AA group

[Atman]

AA's strategy is to tell newcomers "If you don't accept that you are a drunk, it just proves that you are a drunk!" regardless of the person's actual circumstances.

Judging from the recent Hillary/Obama threads, the same principles apply...if you don't support Hillary, it proves you're misogynist; if you don't support Obama, it proves you're a racist. It doesn't seem to matter that Obama has even LESS bona fides than W did when he became president, or that Hillary is totally owned by the corporatocracy...if you diss her it is because you hate women!

Hey Hillary and Obama supporters...how about giving your fellow DUers the same credit for intellect as you want us to give you. If you truly believe we're progressives here, then you MUST believe we ALL have the ability to figure these things out for ourselves. This bullshit "If you don't support a woman/black man it proves you hate women/black men" in intellectually dishonest and divisive. It is very early in the campaign -- too early, imho -- for anyone to be taking any of these people so seriously. Let ALL of us decide based upon our experiences, our readings, our beliefs...and stop this crap now. More candidates will enter the ring and more DUers will get themselves in a tizzy. More corporate media will be thrust upon us extolling the virtues of the candidates friendly to them. Educate yourselves, and stop assuming that every democrat must think exactly alike.

If that were the case, we wouldn't be democrats...we'd be republicans.

:rant:

[Montauk6]

1. While I'm waiting for the popcorn to finish, I might as well ask...

McCain for the Republicans
Hillary or Obama for the Democrats
Ralph Nader as an Independent

Whom do you vote for?

*DING* Ah, great...

:popcorn:

[marmar]

2. Personally, I'd love to see an end to ALL speculative posts about 2008...

That election is nearly 2 years away. In the meantime, Bush continues to fuck up the world. (And I agree, there's been a bit of hypersensitivity about Clinton and Obama, and perhaps a little genuine misogyny and racism too.) But enough already. I'd love to see it all put on ice until this time next year.

[cadmium]

12. I am with you too.

The damned new congress hasn't even met yet. Applying this pressure early works to the Republicans' advantage because it will undermine their working relationships in Congress.

[BuyingThyme]

3. Hmm... I don't like Obama or Clinton at all,

but adore future president Barbara Lee.

I guess I'm a racist and a sexist, but not a racist sexist or a sexist racist.

It's all so complicated.

Can I just go back to supporting people according to their positions on the issues?

[wtmusic]

4. Nope, you're stuck in GD...

and THERE'S NO WAY OUT! :scared:

[marmar]

6. I'm with you there....

I'd quit my job to campaign for Barbara Lee for president. She rules, and is smarter and more tenacious than anybody talking about running for Prez.

[Bjorn Against]

7. Either Kucinich/Lee or Lee/Kucinich 2008

Talk about a dream ticket.

[BuyingThyme]

9. Yes. I've endorsed very few tickets, but

I think Barbara Lee was on almost every one.

I went through a Feingold/Lee phase there for a while. That might still fly with me.

[Nedsdag]

47. Barbara Lee, future president?

From your lips to God's ear. Nothing against her but reality must set it.

[WI_DEM]

5. What a bunch of balony

First, where are all the pro-Hillary threads? and second, the attacks on Obama have been over the top in some cases. There are plenty of pro-Clark, pro-Kerry, pro-Gore, pro-Kucinich threads, so why should it bother anybody if some people write a few admiring Obama threads? or even the odd admiring Hillary thread? For a progressive forum there is alot of intolerance around here, and I'm not talking about race or sex, but among supporters of candidates who can't stand it when somebody they don't support gets a positive thread or positive press.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I Missed It...

What are people saying about Obama?

Grrrrrr

[L A Woman]

10. thank you - i have been trying to make that point for ages

it's the VENOM....that is what makes it racism and sexism. you just don't see the same venom on this board for any other potential candidate. and it's just a little too coincidental...the white guys get a pass and the blacks and the feeee-males get constant bashing.

honestly, is there ANYONE...i mean ANYONE more incompetent than John Kerry, the idiot who couldn't beat the worst president who ever lived? and yet where is the venom for him? he voted for the war, too, just like Sen. Clinton.

can you imagine if Hillary Clinton had been the candidate who lost to * in 2004? if Hillary Clinton had not been able to explain the $80 billion "flip flop" question that any two-year-old could explain but John Kerry could not????? can you imagine, really, how quickly she would be strung up by DUers?

it's very clear that many DUers would sooner vote for an incompetent white male than a woman or a black man. ignore it if you wish, but it's a plain fact.

(and just as an aside, she should be addressed as Senator Clinton, not Hillary. do you address any males by their first names? it's another blatant sign of disrespect.)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. I'm Not Getting Into That Briar Patch...

But I am supporting Barack Obama...

If experience is the be all and end all why did Obama have the good sense to oppose the Iraq War Resolution as an obscure state senator in Illinois while wily senate veterans like John Kerry, Joe Biden, and Evan Bayh supported it?

[Atman]

13. What a bunch of double-baloney

I could give a rat's ass if anyone supports Hillary or Obama. Your post is just another example of what I'm talking about. You make this assumption, based upon this one post of mine, that I've never made any similar comments about any other candidates. Although I've been a Clark supporter, I've nearly been banned from DU for questioning Clark's motives. I've posted positive threads about Gore, Kerry, and just today, Kucinich. This isn't about who I am supporting. This is about the people who refuse to allow others to express their dislike of a candidate without labeling them. At one time, I couldn't stand Al Gore. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat now. I think Dennis Kucinich is one of the most brilliant minds in politics, and I'd vote for him in a quarter of a heartbeat. I've never thought Kerry was presidential material, but I supported him when he became our candidate because I had no other choice on the ballot. The "white guy" angle is pure divisive crapola. I think Obama has a LOT of what it takes to win an election...I just can't allow myself to become a hypocrite by applying a different set of standards than those I applied to George Bush -- the man has NO qualifications. I think the 22 amendment should be repealed just for Bill Clinton, but I think Hillary has become a bought and paid for corporate shill. So stop the labeling bullshit already, and give people some credit for being able to address issues and candidates at face value outside of a need for affirmation from DU supporters.

[SaveElmer]

17. I was going to post on t his bizzaro world thread...

But you summed it up very nicely...

Up is down, black is white...and pro-Hillary threads are thicker than a swarm of flies...brother!

[RetroLounge]

14. Without a comment on Hillary or Obama

You obviously don't know shit about AA.

Try a new analogy, one you actually have some knowledge about, instead of spouting bullshit that may keep someone away from recovery who needs it.

:eyes:

RL

[Atman]

15. You obviously don't know shit about ME!

Holy shit! Best post of the day, dude. Search my name, read my posts. I know a lot about AA.

Been there. Refused to do that.

.

[RetroLounge]

16. You don't matter, it's not about you.

I've been to AA for over 16 years, in multiple cities, in multiple states, 1000's of meetings, and I have never heard this or read this anywhere.

and if you ever bothered to read anything about it, you'd know all groups are autonomous and that there is no edict from on high about anything.

If AA didn't work for you, that's fine, it's not the only game in town, and never has claimed to be, but your broad brush holds no water in any reality.

I never understood why people who say it didn't work for them have to bad-mouth it. Why is that?

RL

[BuyingThyme]

18. Maybe it's like AAA.

If you don't pay your dues, you're bound to break down.

[RetroLounge]

19. AAA has a better discount program

:rofl:

RL

[Atman]

20. When the fuck did I say it never worked for me?

??????????????????????????????

[RetroLounge]

26. "Been there. Refused to do that."

If I misunderstood what this meant, my apologies...

RL

[MazeRat7]

21. So when did you last attend an AA meeting and what is your sobriety date?

My next response is proportional to your reply.

MZr7

[Atman]

23. I don't play that game.

I've been sober for nine + years. But not because of AA. But I'd guess that you, being an AA member, will now give me the "see, I told you so" dry drunk lecture. To AA people, if you don't buy the "higher power in your door knob" theory, then you're just in denial. It isn't about being sober, it is about being one of the club.

If it works for you, great. But it is statistically proven that AA is absolutely no better than any other method of recovery, be that SOS, hypnosis, or even cold turkey. AA is the only method, however, which puts the method ahead of the sobriety. AA WANTS people to fail, because it proves they are right about the whole "powerless" crap, and keep you coming back for meetings and putting money in the basket.

You really don't want to go here. Really.

.

[MazeRat7]

25. Wow... you've got some "opinions"....

First, what makes you so sure I'm in AA ? I didn't say as much, but you made that assumption... hummmmm I suspect projection is a-foot.

Second, from my extensive knowledge about substance abuse recovery, AA is the "single" most effective program as endorsed by virtually every group involved in substance abuse. This is documented, don't ask me to provide "links" go look them up yourself.

Third, you are basically a blow hard that has no clue what they are talking about.... relative to recovery or the process

Sorry... but I have to call then as I see 'em..... and you are so far off the mark that a detailed and meaningful discussion would be a waste of time...


Enjoy your delusion if it makes you feel good....


MZr7

[Atman]

27. Wait just a minute, Mr. Projectionist...

Wasn't it YOU who asked about when I last attended a meeting, and how you were just waiting for my response?

Second, do you honestly think I just made up what I said? I don't need to ask you for links, because when I decided to quit drinking, I researched A LOT. My wife is a medical practitioner, and she researched even more than I did. You are simply wrong about AA being the single most effective recovery method, although I do see you put "single" in quotes. Maybe there's a caveat there you're not willing to disclose. Like, that you're wrong. I did the research. The facts are pretty clear, except to people who make a living off of other people's "recovery"...AA is absolutely no more effective than any other method of quitting. Period. Because it is not the program, it is the person. If you want to quit, and are ready, you'll find a way to quit whether through the help of AA, SOS, hypnosis, a stick up your ass, a thumb in your eye, whatever. AA is just a another method, albeit the ONLY one to receive a steady stream of customers via the court system.

Enjoy my "delusion?" Is my sobriety a "delusion" because I refuse to buy into the religious clap-trap god in a door know AA bullshit? You underscore exactly what I said about AA people...if you don't buy into AA, it just means you don't accept "your problem." Now, go back and read my op...isn't that what I said in the very first sentence? Hmmm?

Thanks for demonstrating that I am right.

.

[MazeRat7]

37. OK... lets review....

You've not been to any AA meetings (at least none that you care to divulge)

You claim to have been dry/sober for like 9 yrs but can't tell us the exact day you quit.

Your wife is a "medical practitioner", eg not a doctor, who received, at best, one course in substance abuse for nurses, two for doctors at an accredited medial school.

You dont believe that recovery is related to "community" and that "community" is what helps others succeeded.
My comment there is very rarely do individuals stop drinking without a support group...(unless of you are the president... chimpy is that you ?)

You seem to believe alcoholism is a not disease and recovery is individual, like quiting smoking. What part of the DSM4 did you or your wife miss as it relates to alcoholism?
Alcoholism is a disease no different than diabetes, high-blood pressure, etc...each will kill you w/o treatment. While I agree that a person must want to stop... trying to make this a "personal" choice shows a serious lack of understand of the physical addiction.

AA is not funded by any outside entity (eg the court system) and there are no dues or fees required for membership. Only a "small" percentage of active members are "on paper" which is to say pushed there by the courts. Besides... had you rather chronic drunks be locked up in jails at your expense or pushed to receive treatment while out on "probation" with AA as part of the requirements for not occupying a taxpayer funded cell ?

As far as your "sobriety".... hummmm... not sure what the god angle has to do with it for you...but it certainly is not a requirement to getting sober. I recall that they only require you to believe in a "higher power"... something greater and more significant than yourself. If you really think there are living people that believe a "door" is a higher power... wow... you really take things entirely too literally.

And finally I would like to point out that "humility" and a "willingness to learn" is a key component of being sober...just like for regular folk.

Somehow I get the sense, this is not your strong suit...

MZr7

[Atman]

38. Okay, my go...

I specifically said I HAVE attended AA meetings.

My "date" was April 13, 1996.

My wife is an APRN with too many initials after the APRN that I can't remember them.

I did not say, in any way shape or form, that I don't believe recovery is related to "community." You're assuming that, based upon your own biases.

You go on to say "very rarely do individuals stop drinking without a support group...", while providing absolutely no evidence to support your observation. But let's say you're correct, just for laughs...is "very rarely" the same as "never?" Perhaps you've met one of the guys in the "very rarely" percentile, eh?

I do NOT believe at all that alcoholism is a "disease." Diseases have have causes and cures, by definition. Alcoholism does not. It is an affliction, not a disease.

AA IS funded by an outside entity...indirectly. The courts. EVERY dui arrest results in a mandatory AA "sentence." Every one. Maybe you should look up the stats on that one. Then you go on to ask whether I'd rather those people be locked up. But I thought you just said they weren't sentenced? Do you deny that the plate is passed at every AA meeting, just as in church? Of course no one has to put a dollar in the basket. They don't have to in church, either. But they do!

As for "sobriety," hmmmm...of course you'd say the God angle has nothing to do with it. You're obviously an AA advocate. But here is the angle which generally floors you AA guys...I quit because I was able to grasp that there is nothing greater or more significant than myself. (One of the fringe benefits of atheism). I quit because I didn't want to die. If dead, I couldn't be with my family. Thus, I must believe I am significant before I can believe I matter. You want me to quit to please an invisible floating ghost. That just seems like a recipe for failure, because while one is struggling to face his own demons, he must also please a "higher power?" And I hope you just mis-typed when you claim I said people believe a "door" is their higher power. I never said any such thing. What I said was this; when the AA people are confronted with the GOD/Higher Power aspect, the response is always that this isn't religious, that "higher power" can mean anything, even a "door knob" if that is what helps you. If you want to discuss this, at least be honest.

And finally I would like to point out that "reading" and "comprehension" are key components to debate. Fuck you and your smug, holier than my door knob attitude.

Somehow I, get the, sense that punctuation is, not your, strong suit...

MZr7.2b

<snarkiness off>

[MazeRat7]

42. There is nothing greater or more significant than yourself ????

Oh that is rich... You don't seriously believe such drivel do you? That you are the center of your own universe ? Gosh, I hope to grow up some day and have all the answers too...until then, I'll just be a member of the human race eclipsed by things greater than myself....

As for the rest of your uninformed post:

Is alcoholism a disease? lets see what the National Institute of Health has to say

Is AA funded by outside entities ? No. That is against their charter and to do such would jeopardize their non-profit status.
Do they pass the "plate" ?. Yes.
What percentage of members are in forced attendance by the courts ? Don't have US stats but in our metropolitan area "card signers" are estimated at less than 10% of total membership. In my county, the community supervision requirement to attend AA for DUI/PI arrests are optional. Not mandatory.

Again, I don't know where you are getting your information but as best I can tell from this thread....its mostly all wrong.

What really amazes me is that someone will continue to cling to a "belief" when all the evidence is to the contrary. Hummmmm, how does this remind me of the current administration ????

MZr7

[Warren DeMontague]

43. Lets cut to the chase: Are you saying that for addicts and alcoholics, the 12 steps are the ONLY way

to "real" sobriety?

Are you saying that alternatives to AA -and they DO exist- don't "really" work?

Are you saying that "all the evidence" says that addicts and alcoholics HAVE TO believe in a "power greater than themselves" (one that, coincidentally enough, the vast majority end up calling "God") to get and remain sober?

'Cuz as near as I can tell, we've got 3 12 steppers in this immediate thread, only one of whom seems to fit the stereotype as to why so many of us have "issues" with AA.

You say upthread that "very rarely do individuals stop drinking without a support group". Got statistics to back that up? Because if you're familiar with the statistics, the first part of your sentence is correct: "Very rarely do individuals stop drinking". You could have ended it there. The statistical rate of long term (5 years +) sobriety for AA is nothing to write home about, and actually it's arguably no better than rates of spontaneous recovery/remission across the board. In fact, many have argued that AA's rate is worse, because AA's statistics only measure the people who stay IN the program, do the steps, go to the meetings, yadda yadda yadda. The folks who walk out the door because they came looking for support to stop drinking and found instead the Lord's Prayer aren't counted in those numbers.

That said, I know people whose lives were saved by AA. It works for some people. But not others- and it's IMPORTANT for people to KNOW that there ARE ALTERNATIVES THAT ALSO WORK. Telling someone who, I'm sorry, still doesn't believe in "God" whether you call "him" "Ralph", "Doorknob", "Group of Drunks" or merely "Power Greater than oneself", are not going to get what they need in AA. That's why secular alternatives are crucial, and they work too. And some people DO recover without meetings or "group support". RR works for some people. AVRT works for some people. Hell, just plain old quitting works for some people. I know that runs contrary to recovery dogma, but recovery dogma is grounded in many of these 12 step adages, the primary one of which is, "this is the ONLY road out".

It's not.

[Atman]

44. Thank you. Stated much more eloquently than I was able to

And I LOVE the way Mazerat went to the full "ridicule" extreme about my comment that "nothing is more important than myself" comment. Was an ass...I didn't say I was more important to everyone else in the universe, as his ridicule implies (I guess that is part of the "support" his group gives out), I was making the point that I stopped because I realized my life was more important to me than a program, a promise, a coin, a door knob, whatever. "My life" includes my relationships, my job, etc.

Anyway, again...great post. Thanks.

.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

28. Clearly, you have some issues with AA, but it's great that you are sober...

I've also been to tons of AA meetings, and while there are indeed some people who believe it's the only way (those FEW that would indeed call you a "dry drunk"), the majority of people I've met there are Just People. Alcoholics and drug addicts, but Just People. Some are assholes, but most I've met are just people struggling -- together, that's the key -- to get and stay sober and learn how to live without the crutch that they've had all their lives. And in later sobriety, to learn how to deal with the usual life issues that everyone faces, in spite of their own fucked up history of dealing with life.

You are painting a whole lot of people with a very broad brush. Sort of like you are accusing others of doing here.

Sorry you had a bad experience at AA, but glad you found a different way to get and stay sober.

And just like in AA or any other group, there are people at DU who are judgemental, in this case about Hillary and Obama. Whatever. There are judgemental people in every group.

[Atman]

30. Being an atheist, I have a lot of issues with AA

Every AA group says AA isn't about religion, but there is simply nothing non-religious about standing around holding hands saying the lord's prayer and giving yourself to a higher power...often (usually) under order of the state. State sponsored religion. That is what AA is. Some people like it, some hate; some need it, some don't.

I am painting no one with a broad brush. The brutal irony is that posts such as yours only serve to point up the accuracy of my initial post; deny us, and you only prove you have a problem. That was the point of the original post, NOT my personal history, NOT anyone's love or hate of AA.

.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

33. Ah, there we go, proving your point again...

I love it when OPs use that weapon: "Your response just proves my point!" :)

BTW, I do think you are painting AA members with a broad brush. Yes there is the Lord's Prayer and Higher Power and all that, and maybe it doesn't bother me because I was raised Catholic (though I'm lapsed, not a church-goer). I also don't find where I live that most people are there by order of the state. In fact, in the groups I've attended, I would say the "mandatory" attendees are a small percentage.

"Deny us, and you only prove you have a problem." When did I say that? I am only stating the obvious fact that you have a problem with AA; that's based on your own words and the somewhat defensive anger coming through in your posts. No big deal, lots of people don't like AA, in particular atheists, and I totally understand that. I'm not an atheist, so I can't relate to what it must be like. As I said, I am never bothered by the religious aspect of AA because I come from a Catholic upbringing, but I also witnessed a lot of people who don't believe in a traditional God work through the steps and get sober through AA. And of course as you've pointed out there are other ways to get and stay sober.

[THUNDER HANDS]

22. all i'll say on this stupid topic (not post)

is that if the GOP had two candidates like Clinton or Obama on their bench, they'd be thanking god for their good fortune, not trying to tear them (or their supporters) down.

[Atman]

24. So you're in the "completely missing the point" group, too, eh?

Did you even read the fucking post? It isn't about how great or how bad either candidate is! Jesus H. Christ! I made no endorsements nor did I say either of them sucked, per se. The entire post was about how so many on DU have taken to calling others "women haters" if the say anything negative about Hillary, or "racists" if the don't support Obama. What the fuck, people? Have we all forgotten how to read?

.

[RetroLounge]

31. Wow, kinda crispy, huh?

:eyes:

RL

[Atman]

32. Hey, forgive me. For some reason I don't like being attacked

by people who don't know me or anything about me.

I made a post about the attacks on those who won't sign on the Hillary or Obama campaigns two years before the election, and the thread turns into one about my own sobriety. Granted, I used the AA metaphor...because I am quite familiar with AA and consider it an apt metaphor. If that's crispy, so be it. I'll take mine extra crispy.

.

[RetroLounge]

34. I think the problem is a faulty metaphor

and thus, your basic tenet about the candidates is lost, right or wrong.

RL

[Atman]

35. Oh well...it gave the folks at Certifiable Underground some laughs!

Hi kids! Mom let you have an extra hour on the peecee before bed? Say hi to Library Lady for me! I've got a big thick "reference volume" waiting for her to check out!

.

[jefferson_dem]

29. Um...interesting claim. When exactly did someone get called a racist for not supporting Obama...

when they didn't deserve to wear the label?

Furthermore, which of the following do you think is more common here?
1. A poster gets called a racist for not supporting Obama.
2. A poster says Obama can't win *because* he's not white.

[havocmom]

36. Personally, I'm still having trouble with: You can love America and hate bushco

but if you have problems with Lukid, you are an anti-semite and hate Israel.

Really, HUH?

The dislike Hill = misogyny or Not crazy for Obama = racist is just as fucked up.

Billy Joel's song Shades of Grey comes to mind.

Some things were perfectly clear, seen with the vision of youth
No doubts and nothing to fear, I claimed the corner on truth
These days it's harder to say I know what I'm fighting for
My faith is falling away
I'm not that sure anymore

Shades of grey wherever I go
The more I find out the less that I know
Black and white is how it should be
But shades of grey are the colors I see

Once there were trenches and walls and one point of every view
Fight 'til the other man falls - kill him before he kills you
These days the edges are blurred, I'm old and tired of war
I hear the other man's words
I'm not that sure anymore

Shades of grey are all that I find
When I look to the enemy line
Black and white was so easy for me
But shades of grey are the colors I see

Now with the wisdom of years, I try to reason things out
And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts
Save us all from arrogant men, and all the causes they're for
I won't be righteous again
I'm not that sure anymore

Shades of grey are all that I find
When I look to the enemy line
Ain't no rainbows shining on me
Shades of grey are the colors I see

Shades of grey wherever I go
The more I find out the less that I know
Ain't no rainbows shining on me
Shades of grey are the colors I see

Yes, those who never have doubts worry me too. Dogma left or right, fundamentalism of any ilk, well, it does seem to prevent a lot of good work and intellectual jam sessions.

[HardRocker05]

39. nobody is saying that. strawman. nt

[Atman]

40. Well, yes, in fact, they are.

That is why I posted the thread. I didn't post it just to be beat up upon by AA members.

.

[AtomicKitten]

41. one of us

"We accept you. One of us.
Gooble-gobble, gooble-gobble.
We accept you. One of us!"

[ProfessorGAC]

45. One Nit To Pick

You said Obama has less bona fides than Silverspoon. You sure about that? As an Illinoisan, i'm quite certain he has been an elected legislator longer than Silverspoon was, and instead of being installed at the top of his party's leadership, he worked his way up over a period of about 10 years.
The Professor

[Atman]

46. I didn't know that, Prof

Hey, personally I like his style. I'm not opposed to voting for him. But, as I stated, I was among the many who decried Bush's lack of experience, and it seems a bit hypocritical to apply a different standard to Barrack. Also, he hasn't really proven himself to be a leader in the Senate, just a stunningly good, charismatic speaker.

Of course, charisma means a lot to Americans (or people in general). But if Obama has the chops and can back it up, I'd vote for him. But it's still pretty early in the game. I don't want to fall into the same trap of being forced to take whomever is the latest media darling, instead of a real leader.

What BO has going for him over virtually every other candidate is perhaps more important right now than anything else...he's a relative unknown. Like Clinton was. People are sick and tired of dynasties and the same old same old candidates resurfacing every year, like mold that wont go away. We need new and fresh. I think anybody unknown with the charisma, charm and intellect of OB would have as good as shot right now. Remember, the best president we've had in decades came out of nowhere -- Arkansas.

.

[ProfessorGAC]

49. Sick Of Dynasties!

You said it brother. The very idea of voting for someone because his daddy was president escapes me completely. In fact, unless he had the track record of Winston Churchill, i would NOT vote for someone BECAUSE HIS DAD WAS PREZ!

We aren't supposed to have royal lineage 'round these parts.
The Professor

[Connie_Corleone]

48. You're painting a broad brush there.

I'm sure there are plenty of Obama supporters (and some Clinton supporters) who have NEVER done what you're accusing us of doing.

Yeah, there are going to be a few posts that are outrageous, but to direct your rant to ALL of us is unfair.