Juan Cole: "If they are leaking this sort of thing, their hair must be on fire with anxiety"

[RedEarth]

Wednesday, December 13, 2006

The New Middle East Cold War: Saudi/Israel/Lebanon versus Iran/Syria/Iraq/Hizbullah

Helene Cooper with Hassan Fattah of the NYT has the scoop that Saudi King Abdullah told US VP Dick Cheney two weeks ago that if the US withdrew precipitately from Iraq, the kingdom would have little choice but to support the Sunni Arab guerrillas. The Saudi government had pledged to the US not to do so as long as US troops were in Iraq. But it is alleged that Saudi oil millionaires privately already send money to the guerrillas. Saudis, as Wahhabi Muslims, belong to a sect that is to the right of Sunnism. But the Wahhabi tradition dislikes Shiites and in any Sunni-Shiite struggle, the Wahhabis will come in on the Sunni side.

This item is no surprise, of course, and I have brought up this likelihood a number of times myself. What is remarkable is that it is being stated by the Saudi leadership and published in the press. The Saudis are usually circumspect. If they are leaking this sort of thing, their hair must be on fire with anxiety.

Cooper also reports the abrupt and mysterious resignation of Saudi Ambassador to the US Turki al-Faisal after only 22 months in Washington. Prince Turki has been an effective diplomat and has done a lot of outreach work, addressing ordinary American audiences (a style very unlike that of Prince Bandar bin Sultan, his long-serving predecessor). Prince Turki is the only Saudi official I know of publicly to espouse Gandhian principles of non-violence for the Palestinian cause. I met him more than once and was impressed by his humanity and acumen. I'm sorry to see him leave Washington. There are rumors that he is leaving to become foreign minister of the kingdom. If that were the case, I should have thought the promotion would be announced along with his resignation, which he called a "retirement." The way this is being handled looks more to me as though he lost some big policy fight with the establishment in Riyadh. But we shall see.

The Saudis are usually important to the formulation of US policy in the Middle East. W. is now rudderless, with Rumsfeld gone and Cheney neutered by the November elections. Prince Turki's departure in addition to hysteria about a regional guerrilla war in Iraq on the part of the Saudi King are an element of instability in White House policy-making that we could have done without.

http://www.juancole.com/2006/12/new-middle-east-cold-war.html

[babylonsister]

1. Recommend. As Cole suggests, might be time to buy a bicycle. nt

[FredStembottom]

3. Oh, well - I need to lose weight, ennaways........

And now that Minnesota has become the new Missouri - with winters that just don't go below freezing or produce snow - a bicycle will do just fine.

[formercia]

9. Ice Fishing must really suck.

been spotty in Maine too.

[FredStembottom]

21. Can't even get out on the ice!

Wasn't like this when I was a kid - or 10 years ago for that matter. But hasn't been normal for about 9 years.

[formercia]

26. I've been noticing it for quite a while

I've been here for 22 years and watched the climate change even before it became a popular subject. I used to be able to drive my car out on the lake. I would not even consider it now. Trout species are being replaced with Smallmouth Bass. You have to go north to reliably catch native trout because most of what is left are stockers and they aren't worth eating.

[AndyTiedye]

10. Already Done That

[babylonsister]

11. And a fine one it is, Andy!

:thumbsup:

[mod mom]

13. Had dinner w author Edwin Black "Internal Combustion:

Internal Combustion: How Corporations and Governments Addicted the World to Oil and Derailed the Alternatives (Hardcover)
by Edwin Black
Key Phrases: electric vehicle company, hydrogen highway, internal combustion machines, New York, National City Lines, United States (more...)


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312359071/ref=pd_sl_aw_alx-jeb-9-1_book_19995061_1?tag2=amd-google-20

My husband(architect who focuses on sustainability) and I were invited to have dinner with Mr Balck and a couple other individuals when he was in town promoting his new book. He discussed how the technology is there (and has been for a long time) to move away from the combustible engine and how our need to get off oil is a national security issue. He is attempting to persuade purchasers of large fleets of vehicles to demand a change so that an immediate change can occur inavailability for the consumer. I highly recommend this book.

[faithnotgreed]

15. thank you for that mod mom. "who killed the electric car" is on dvd

and would also make a nice introduction for people since its a well made entertaining and informative film

[mike_c]

2. K&R-- damn that's an awesome article....

Juan Cole is one of the best mid-east analysts. This situation-- if he's right-- is highly unstable.

[Captain Hilts]

4. The Saudi Ambassador left town like the Baltimore Colts. Suddenly, in the dark of night.nt

[Cocoa]

5. I emailed this article to Silvestre Reyes

he wrote back, "wtf?"

[babylonsister]

8. His response was 'wtf'?

What did he write? And thanks for attempting to edumicate him! :silly:

[TahitiNut]

6. Juan Cole and me. GMTA.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2907663&mesg_id=2907714

:evilgrin:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. How Is This Different From The Iraq-Iran War?

When Egypt, Saudi Araia an the Gulf states supprted Saddam in his war with Iran and Syria and Libya supported Iran....


It makes sense those nations would be scared of an Iran-Iraq Shia hegemon...

[Chimichurri]

12. Wow. I got so much information out of that one article.

This quagmire has turned out to be a huge destabilizing force throughout that region. Hopefully we can get some adult supervision in there come January.

[Jcrowley]

14. K & R n/t

[rman]

16. Prince Turki ... to espouse Gandhian principles of non-violence for the Palestinian cause

Ain't that something.

[Straight Shooter]

17. bush and the spider's touch, like a black widow

"Saudi Arabia is equally frantic about the possibility of a nuclear Iran, and is moreover apoplectic that the US delivered Baghdad into the hands of Iraqi Shiite fundamentalists allied with Iran."

==================

I read things like that sentence, and I just wonder, What in the hell were the people thinking who propelled this imbecile into the White House and then supported his war-mongering?

:banghead:

[maxsolomon]

18. and SA vetted the invasion of Iraq

Bush doesn't sneeze without his master's permission.

[amandabeech]

20. I thought that the Saudis told Chimpy to stay out.

Just like they told his father not to topple Hussein because it would destabilize the whole region.

When did they change their tune?

[maxsolomon]

30. i just assumed

you're probably right - bush is a dumbfuck.

you know who pisses me off just as much lately? blair. if he'd said no way, i don't think we'd be in this hole now.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

23. Perpetual War for Profit?

As an answer to "What in the hell were the people thinking who propelled this imbecile into the White House and then supported his war-mongering?"

Isn't that the whole motive of this administration and the Republican agenda for decades?

ADW

[Straight Shooter]

24. Well, it was a rhetorical question, for the most part.

But, yes, war-mongering and war-profiteering seem to be the modus operandi of the Repubs.

Welcome to DU, on a troubled night here, with the sad news that Sen. Johnson is undergoing brain surgery.

[ClintonTyree]

27. I'll tell you what they're thinking....

CA-CHING! They're making money hand over fist dealing in the war trade. They're counting their heaps of cash. Money is their god and they're praying at the alter of cash, bathing in their ill-gotten gains and spurring the giggling murder monkey to further rash acts that will enrich them even more. This is exactly WHY they installed this empty suit as President and they're now reaping the benefits of their political contributions and skulduggery.
It's all about money. They think that a holocaust in the middle east won't effect them, at least not much, and they'll be positioned to buy everything that's left after the dust clears at bargain basement prices. Swine. Total swine.

[conscious evolution]

19. This line really annoys me

'......if the US withdrew precipitately from Iraq, the kingdom would have little choice but to support the Sunni Arab guerrillas........."

My first thought was "yeah? So Fucking What!!!"
BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW!!
If they want to play cold war fine just leave us the fuck out of it.

[femrap]

22. Sunni and Wahabbi vs. Shite

Can anyone tell me or direct me to a quick explanation of these religions and/or sects and why they hate each other?

I would really like to understand why they hate each other so much. Is it based on some great religious disagreement or is it just because one group oppressed another because it could?

I assume these 3 all believe in Mohammed, right? I know that Wahabbism just came into being in the 1800's (I figured it was similar to the US experiencing Mormonism in the 1800's...both being very much to the Right on the spectrum).

When did the hatred start and why? It goes back centuries, right?

I would appreciate any links or 'Guide for Dummies on Why Muslims are Fighting Amongst Themselves.'

Thx. Organized religions have caused nothing but problems, IMHO.

[Singular73]

25. The most interesting threat in this entire thing is....

Saudis are THREATENING to lower oil prices to bankrupt Iran.

Think about that.

This is something they can use to deflate the value of the dollar even MORE.

Thats the REAL Threat. Has little to do with Iran.

Thats an excuse.

VERY interesting.

By the way, I told my wife exactly this would happen a week ago.

[Toots]

28. 15 of the 19 terrorists on 9-11 were Saudi and I would bet they were Wahhabi

and not Al Qaeda....:shrug:

[bagrman]

29. and 6 of the 19 showed up alive.