Is this demeaning to women?

[trumad]

[Warpy]

1. Only if she's forced into it.

If it's her choice, it's her problem.

[Blue-Jay]

2. yar!

[BOSSHOG]

3. Thanks

Now I'm having flashbacks to Sister Martha Marie in the 4th grade who took out her sexual tensions by slapping us little Catholic Boys around for no apparent reason. She's probably 120 now, but still "instructing."

[bryant69]

4. Feels like i missed out on an interesting discussion

but how could that be offensive to woman?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[trumad]

5. Same thing me thinks....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2909091&mesg_id=2909091

[JuniperLea]

7. How is that any different than a Burka?

Or other attire that labels and restricts women? Any woman who wants to serve God in this ultimate manner is forced to wear a habit.

[bryant69]

10. I'm not Catholic so I can't really speak for them

I don't think a woman who never wears teh habit is necessarily given a lesser place than one who does, though.

Bryant

[feduppuke]

18. It's different from a burka

in that the nun wears her habit on a voluntary basis. Most women who wore burkas in Afghanastan did so under threat of death.

[JuniperLea]

20. It's only voluntary if she wants to be a nun

If she doesn't want to be a nun, then she can voluntarily choose not to wear it.

[napi21]

6. No because the women who chose that life made it conciously

and of their own will. BTW, I don't think they wear those habits anymore. I know, I wentto a catholic school for 12 years, and all the nuns wowrd habits. none do anymore. In fact I haven't seen a nun in a full habit for many years.

[JuniperLea]

8. Plenty of nuns still wear habits

There are two convents in my neighborhood, and several Catholic schools. ALL of them wear habits. And the priests wear full robes.

[napi21]

31. I guess it must be just where I happen to be. I know I haven't seen

any nuns in habitssince I move to the South in 1987. I had a short 1 1/2 year stay in Pgh. Pa. to care for my ailing mother, andthe 3 nun cocusins I have came to her funeral in street clothes. The only diff. was one had a smallblue veil on her head. Of course, the kind of clothes they wear is pretty conspicuous too. Fairly flat shoes, always black or brown,very tailored white blouse without any trimming, and a VERY tailord skirt worn well below the knee.

Not critizing you understand. As I said, I have 3 cousins who are nuns in Pgh. I guess what they now wear is a habit of sorts since it's so different from everyone else.

[JuniperLea]

38. Maybe we are both right?

Could be the difference is working clothes vs. street clothes.

I live in Los Angeles and I see nuns in habits all the time, even in stores and driving down the street.

[trumad]

9. I think at the vatican they still wear something close to it.

I don't think nuns are forced into anything...at least the nuns that knew growing up.

[hedgehog]

11. LOL you're right - the only place to see a women in full habit any more is in a

crowd scene where an unimaginative director decides he needs to add a little color.

[NashVegas]

21. That Was Not Always the Case

At one time, the convent was not just for those who lived with religious fervor, but also for daughters who couldn't or wouldn't be married off.

[shain from kane]

35. And celibacy was foisted on priests, because their accumulated wealth was

going to the heirs, and not to the Church.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. Just as much as the hajib.

Frankly, I think the other discussion is demeaning to muslims.

[trumad]

14. So do I--hence my post....

and I'm amazed that the poll taken had about 40 percent saying it's demeaning.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. You should have been here last night.

To see the 6 imams thread.

[NashVegas]

19. Trumad, It Is

From a humanist standpoint, the covering, out of reasons for sexual fear is highly demeaning to every human being within that culture. It promotes a vision of women as basically interchangeable temptresses, it promotes a vision of men as total slaves to their sexual drives.

It promotes fear. And you betcha that's demeaning to everyone involved.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Is this man a sexist?

Does he demean women? Does he treat them as slaves? Is he part of an uncouth and barbaric culture?

Does he promote fear?

[NashVegas]

26. I Don't Know

I don't know why he is wearing that robe.

I don't know if he wears that robe every time he's out in public.

I don't know if he would point and shake his finger at a hajib-free or unveiled women, or worse.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. That's exactly my point.

[NashVegas]

28. I Think Your Point Is Bullsh*t

..

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. ?

Why?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

32. To expand on my point:

When people look at a picture of a woman wearing a hajib they say:

This woman is a victim of sexism
This woman is oppressed.
This woman has probably been raped.
This woman comes from a barbaric culture.
This woman comes from Afghanistan.

When they look at an Arabic man they say

This man is a sexist.
This man oppresses women.
This man is a barbarian.
This man comes from Saudi Arabia.

What they should say, and you gave the right answer, is "I don't know."

You don't know. Nobody knows. It's a picture of somebody you never met. What's happening here, is that people are judging other people by the way they look. And it's revealing a lot more about the viewer, than the person in the picture.

[NashVegas]

33. If The Guy In the Photo

Is part of a culture that brainwashes women into covering themselves head-to-toe and wearing a veil in the name of protection from men's evilness (and/or protects men from women's evilness) then he is as much of a victim of that society as anyone.

OTOH, I suspect that's Sufi dress.

[pennylane100]

13. I'm not sure how I feel about it being demeaning to women

but I think it looks pretty stupid. As a student of a all girls convent school, I can tell you that under all that heavy clothing, beats the heart of an evil, sexually repressed sadist.

[benddem]

16. Every single day

when I lived in Saudi Arabia and saw the first (of the day) woman in hijab...I would think nun. If you look at the way nuns cover their hair and the multiple coverings it is exactly like the hijab.

[NashVegas]

17. You See That Ruler She's Holding? Abuse Recycled Into Abuse

Nuns take oaths of obedience and are trained to accept their inferiority to their male peers in the church.

Then they turn around and scream at school kids and rap them in the knuckles and on the head.


There is still an apples and oranges aspect.


The habit is reserved for women within a specific religion, who go through special training for which they have volunteered.


The need of the burka/hajib/abayia is brainwashed into all female minds, across the board, and in some cases whole nations that set themselves up as theocracies.

No nun ever got stoned for refusing to wear the habit.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

23. Yes

The treatment of women by many religions is demeaning.

[shain from kane]

24. It's the flying nun. Mother Superior doesn't have sex, and Father has nun.

[Book Lover]

25. OK, people, the penguin suit went out years ago

If you live in a medium to big-sized city, you sit in the same subway car or bus with nuns on a regular basis and don't know it. I'm a bitter ex-catholic, yes, but this stereotype really torques me.

[Annces]

30. What is demeaning to women is the all male bishops

[mrreowwr_kittty]

34. Why the fuck is everyone so obsessed with what women wear?

Hey, I've got an idea! How about we have a big old debate over what kind of uncomfortable and impractical clothing guys should be be wearing? Let's see, shall it be burkas, to protect them from our lascivious female gazes? Or will we demand that guys shave every inch of their bodies and sashay around in hotpants and fuck-me pumps? Cuz, you know those heels make their legs look soooooo much sexier.

Then we can discuss whether or not they choooooooose to wear this thing or that. At least it would be a change from the Fashion Police being on my back all the time!

[shain from kane]

37. What about those sticks that they strapped to their privates? I think they were

South American Indian tribal warriors. To my knowledge, that practice has not been imported to the United States. Didn't exactly catch on here.

[Squatch]

36. No more demeaning than this:

[verdalaven]

39. The uniform of her chosen profession

I wear scrubs. What do you wear to work?

Nah, not demeaning. It is her choice to be a nun.

[pinto]

40. Locked.

"Copycat" threads aren't allowed in the GD forum.
The forum's just too busy to accomodate the space.

Comments/discussion on a thread should be posted in the original thread.

Thanks.