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Ariana Huffington on Dem response to SOTU: "MY WORST FEARS REALIZED"

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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:44 AM
Original message
Ariana Huffington on Dem response to SOTU: "MY WORST FEARS REALIZED"
It's very important to realize WHY Pelosi and Reid chose the disastrous, mealy-mouthed Kaine. According to the Wash Post (see link and longer excerpt at the end of this opening post):


Kaine, who was elected in November to become Virginia's 70th governor, is seen as a rising star in the Democratic Party. He won convincingly in a conservative state, and he campaigned as a fiscal conservative and spoke frequently about the importance of his faith.

For national Democrats, those messages are attractive as both parties head toward the midterm elections later this year.

And Adrianna tells us that Kaine has been seconding Bush's mantra, that it would be a "horrible message" to "cut and run." Showcasing a pro-Iraq War Christian conservative from a Red State choosing Kaine for the SOTU Dem responder is a disaster that extends far beyond the SOTU. It shows all too well the plans and priorities of the Dem leadership, and they must be opposed.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/the-democratic-response-_b_14888.html

The Democratic Response: My Worst Fears Realized


Arianna Huffington
1/31/06

All my worst fears about the Democratic response to the State of the Union address (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/dems-pick-kaine-for-state_b_14112.html) being given by Virginia Gov Kaine were realized tonight when he completely failed to take on the president on his greatest vulnerability -- the war in Iraq. “Second guessing is not a strategy,” Bush said -- but Kaine didn’t even bother to second-guess.

Instead, he told us “together, we can do better” (I swear he did!) and that “our greatest need is to heal our partisan wounds.” Now if I can only figure out how to heal these fresh wounds on my wrists, we’ll be fine. At least, together we’ll be fine.

While Kaine was droning on, I closed my eyes and imagined Jack Murtha giving the response, someone with the authority to do much more than second guess -- to offer an alternative strategy on Iraq and the war on terror, as opposed to Kaine’s program of “service and competent management.” And I thought “competence” had gone out of vogue with Michael Dukakis.

As for the Kaine bromide, “common sense solutions to common problems” -- who came up with that one? Fire them immediately. Please.

(snip)


And here her earlier piece - her predicted "worst fears" that came true:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/dems-pick-kaine-for-state_b_14112.html

Dems Pick Kaine for State of Union Response; What the Hell Are They Thinking?


Arianna Huffington
1-19-06

(snip)

The Democrats don't seem to know what the Republicans do know: that the GOP is losing ground on its core issue of national security. That's why Bush is planning to shift his State of the Union focus away from Iraq and onto an attack on rising health care costs. And the re-emergence of the architect of 9/11 -- promising to bring further death and destruction to our door, and touting Iraq's help as an al-Qaeda recruiting tool -- can only further weaken Bush's national security standing.

(snip)

I know I've said this before and before, but the Democrats will never become the majority party until they can prove to the American people that they have a better plan for keeping us safe. And that means having someone like Jack Murtha give the State of the Union response -- someone with the authority to make the point that, on every level, Iraq is the wrong priority. And that the hundreds of billions already spent on Iraq (and the countless billions to come) would be better spent shoring up our ports, roadways, railways, securing our nuclear installations and chemical plants, and properly supporting our first responders.

(snip)

And during Kaine's run for Governor, he adopted another Bush talking point -- that it would send "a horrible message" to "cut and run" in Iraq. Could that be any further from Murtha's message that Iraq has become a civil war -- a civil war being inflamed by our continuing presence?

Maybe you are thinking -- at least those of you who have a life and missed his inaugural speech on C-SPAN -- that Kaine is a charismatic speaker who will really wow the American people. Well, he ain't. In fact, he scored so low on the scintillating speaker meter, that today's Note suggests Democrats make it a priority to get the Guv a speech tutor before the State of the Union.

(snip - be sure to read it all!)


And here is the Washington Post article reporting on the Dems' stupid choice of Kaine for the SOTU responder:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/19/AR2006011901510.html

Democratic Leaders Turn to Kaine


Va. Governor Tapped to Give State of the Union Response for Party
By Michael D. Shear
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, January 20, 2006; Page B05

RICHMOND, Jan. 19 -- Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine has been tapped by national Democratic leaders to give his party's response to President Bush's State of the Union speech on Jan. 31, party leaders said in a statement Thursday night.

Senate Democratic Leader Harry M. Reid (Nev.) and House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) called Kaine on Thursday, and he accepted, according to the statement, also issued by Gov. Bill Richardson (N.M.), chairman of the Democratic Governors Association.

(snip)

Kaine, who was elected in November to become Virginia's 70th governor, is seen as a rising star in the Democratic Party. He won convincingly in a conservative state, and he campaigned as a fiscal conservative and spoke frequently about the importance of his faith.

For national Democrats, those messages are attractive as both parties head toward the midterm elections later this year.


(snip)


Arianna is right - the choice of Kaine was not only disastrous for the SOTU response, it is a chilling revelation of the Dem leadership's stupid and destructive priorities and plans.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. My take on it is that they all think they will be able to keep their
jobs this way. Well, I'm actively working to get rid of a lot of them. Opposition, my tush.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. What was that job description again? n/t
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Job description: "Official Bush Administration Doormat & Dental Floss" n/t
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
53. Not even dental floss. Butt floss. n/t
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northamericancitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Manage the changement . The transition stage. The framing game
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I thought it was attack your own strengths and applaud their weaknesses.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. It fits right in with the DLC "strategy".......
for Democrats to be "Republican-lite". :eyes: Disgusting. Arianna is correct, he was chosen for his conservative positions, a chilling harbinger of what is to come for the Democratic party this fall. If this is the direction they're taking the Democratic party is dead.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
27. Recently Mark Crispin Miller was on the Majority Report
doing an interview. I at first was a bit weary of him from his Kerry story but I've listened to him on various interviews and everything he says about the election is stuff I know from following everything since November of 2004 and he told about this "republican-lite" nonsense. He said they believe there is a swing in the elections for our country to be more conservative. They believe to win elections they have to act like the conservatives which is why you see Hillary do some silly things like the flag amendment and them bring out Kaine for example. Kaine is like this too which is why I think he really talks about his faith alot. Of course I don't live in Virginia so he might really be that way with no hidden agenda.
But in reality the people are for the real democratic party as we've always been. They just steal elections and a lot of democrats don't believe it so thus they believe the country is getting more religious etc.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #27
59. FWIW, Kaine was a missionary.
but his stance on gay rights pretty much invalidates all the good he's done in that position, IMO.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #59
133. Not that missionary work is automatically, or necessarily, good at all.
But yes, he's quite the homophobe.

Their choice tells GLBTers like myself exactly what the party thinks of us. Well, I've been an independent for years, and this is part of the reason why.

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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
113. I don't think even DLC believes this is a winning strategy--they are
backed by corporations. Their job is to take a dive and if the public gets so fed up with the GOP that they give Democrats majorities in either or both house, the DLC's marching orders are to do as little as possible to interfere with corporate America.

You only have to read their website to see this. They go on and on about health care without mentioning profiteering by insurance companies and pharma.

They have got to go.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. The DLC is a disaster for the Democratic Party
And congress is loaded with them it needs to be purged of these meely mouthed rwingers.
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
89. I want to know WHO THE HELL decided to go with this guy to deliver
the Democratic response? Cause I want to ask them - "WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING?!?!" Was the DLC behind this? What we NEEDED was someone pissed off, someone to stand up to these lying Republican scumbag bastards and tell the American people just how bad off we all really are. Now THAT would have been a real STOU address. I swear, too many more moves by the Democratic Party like this, and I'll have to start voting Green or Independent. :(

Thanks for screwing us AGAIN Dems! :mad:
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. Of course the DLC was behind it
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 01:25 PM by notsodumbhillbilly
We have a rogue administration that has lied, illegally invaded another country, violated Geneva Conventions, trashed the Constitution, etc., etc., and when I heard mealy mouth say: ""Our greatest need is to heal our partisan wounds...", I wanted to throw something through my TV. :grr:
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #89
99. According to the Wash Post article in the OP, it was Reid & Pelosi
who chose this GOP wannabe Kaine.
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #99
124. What about Murtha? Kennedy? or even Kerry?
And if not one of them, then let them pick someone who can TELL THE TRUTH about the HORRIBLE acts that Bush and the Republicans have committed, and continue to commit! I can't believe the Dems have not stood up and screamed at the top of their lungs, "LOOK, THE EMPEROR WEARS NO CLOTHES!". I mean, god damn it I've seriously about had it with the Democrats. More and more it looks like the Democrats are a creation of the Republican party used to pacify the public and create a (false) sense of choice. This is it man, I've really had it. They either address election fraud NOW, and start running actual decent candidates who are not "Republican-lite" or else I will have to go Green or Independent. Even though I know 100% that it is the Republicans who are screwing us - they never would have been able to it without the Democrats being totally useless. If the Dems are lost and don't know to fix things - let them look no further than Democratic Underground, Daily KOS, Huffington Post Blog, Common Dreams, etc where they will see groups of many different types of people gathered together, trying to make sense of all this mess, and who want to see a Greater America, and a greater world for us all. :banghead:
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. Barely anyone watches the rebuttal anyways.
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 05:57 AM by tritsofme
And the SOTU audience is largely conservative to begin with.

What good having a fiery liberal respond, when some marginal Republicans might look at Kaine and think that he and Democrats aren't that bad after all?
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northamericancitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Well said. nt
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baby_bear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. well said, yes; but pathetic
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 06:12 AM by baby_bear
We now have to take heart at hoping no one paid attention to the Democrat's response.

Where is the nearest bridge that I can jump off?

b_b
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Ah, democrats watch to see how their party responds to Bush.
And, it's insane for Democrats to ignore them.
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northamericancitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Who's them?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Little d democrats like the ones who flooded the senate with
calls last week in opposition to Scalito.

I'm very specifically not talking about DLCers. :)
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northamericancitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Its getting more and more confusing for an outsider to pinpoint
what's the real problem?

What's the most efficient way to get rid of*gang.

Keep all you intestines problem in chek and get rid of them.

Them being the extremely rich who ever and where ever they are.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
114. Imho, what we really need has little to do with party machinery.
We need a free press and clean elections. We don't have those things right now. It is a class issue.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. You're kidding, correct? Maybe some sarcasm there?
Having a fiery liberal respond was exactly what was missing from the reality challenged SOTU campaign speech. One of the Democrats few chances to respond without being talked over or having to cut to a commercial and they do what? Pick a DINO, a republican lite, from a Red state. Where was the reality in the response?
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. and a DLC "New Dem of the Week"
:puke:

New Dem Of The Week | January 26, 2006
New Dem of the Week: Tim Kaine
Governor, Virginia

After just 16 days in office, Gov. Tim Kaine will introduce himself to millions of Americans outside of Virginia when he gives the Democratic response to the president's State of the Union address next week. Gov. Bill Richardson, chairman of the Democratic Governors Association, said he and the Senate and House Democratic leaders chose Gov. Kaine because he is a leader who is "on the front lines every day working to help his fellow citizens." As lieutenant governor, Kaine worked with Gov. Mark Warner to enact budget, tax, and management reforms, and make key investments in education and economic development, earning Virginia the designation of "Best-Managed State" from Governing magazine. As Virginia's legislative session begins, Kaine is poised to make an impact on both national and state politics.

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253696&subid=116&kaid=104

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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Yes. A Bush-appeaser and conservative Christian who agrees with Bush
that to "cut and run" would be a "horrible message" on Iraq.

He's a DLC darling all right. No wonder the party has been so ineffective for years in oppposing Bush.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #23
67. Bingo
I thought it sounded DLC but had to see for myself. What is wrong with these assholes? Will Jack Murtha please go over there and kick some butt?
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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
82. the only way you will get repugs to vote dem
is to have a national depression. Of course that could happen. Think you can attract those cow pokers , you are wasting your time. Go after the disadvantaged or non voters. We should support Bush's corrupt lies just because we are cowards to spread the truth.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
134. Yeah, but his reinforcing republican lies doesn't help.
NT!

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LiberalPartisan Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
11. "Our greatest need is to heal our partisan wounds..." ??? NOT!!!
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 06:04 AM by LiberalPartisan
No - our greatest need is to realize Republicans = Fascist and Bush is a traitor. THEY've been selling that notion to their side for 30 years: 'Liberals bad'. It's time we do the same: No more 'civil debate'. It's time to go 100% partisan 100% of the time. Obstruct, lie, slander, libel, fabricate, exploit, obfuscate - say anything to highlight republican failures and corporate ownership of their party.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Agree. "Healing partisan wounds" is code for "caving to the Bushies"
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 06:14 AM by Nothing Without Hope
in this disastrous, criminal Administration. There IS no bipartisan effort, only the imperial GOP juggernaut and its enablers vs. those who dare to dissent.

The Dem leadership's choice of Kaine as party spokesperson was all too telling.
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nosferaustin Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #13
47. Healing partisan wounds...
"Healing partisan wounds" in the case of dealing with the Shrub administration is tantamount to being accessories or aiding and abetting.

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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #47
56. Pukes wound. We heal the wounds. "Heal" means bend over. n/t
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #47
68. Welcome to DU
:hi:
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
91. Holding bush accountable would go a long way toward healing
He lied coming into office. (After being appointed by Scalia, Cheney's good friend.) He made some conciliatory noises, and then went on to be a Right wing bastard, dividing not uniting.

He vacationed us into Sept 11th, and then didn't want anyone held accountable.

He lied, LIED, LIED to achieve his war in Iraq, a war crime that has resulted in the death of thousands of innocent people, and thousands more will probably be killed - more if WW III results - and adds to the disaster by bringing civil war because he wants to control the oil and he is not held accountable.

Peep. I'd like to hear one honest peep out of the media that protects him about how America cannot have honest elections if the Republicans continue to be allowed to count the votes in secret.

Partisan? PARTISAN IS A TWO-WAY STREET.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. The repukes started this divisiveness, they are gong to have to
apologize before any healing of partisan wounds even begins. I will never forgive Cheney and Rove for calling liberals names and questioning our patriotism just because we are liberal. Rush limpball, Ann the Man, and O'lielly continually attack us, threaten us and call for our destruction and we are suppose to heal our partisan wounds? Start with Rush, Ann and O'liely apologizing and go from there repukes. I'm waiting......
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #11
41. We don't need to lie or fabricate; we got enough truth to "kill" them
with. Yes, we should fight as hard as they do. But we can still be better than they are.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
85. DLC's BS mantra
The only thing worse than a neocon is a neocon enabler posing as a dem. DLC is committing treason by supporting a cabal which has eliminated our government of checks and balances.
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joanski0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
15. Our greatest need is to save our democracy.
Why oh why do the Democrats keep trying to cover up what this Administration is doing to our country? Afraid of being called a traitor? Poor excuse.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Simple, both sides in congress feed at the same trough.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
21. How quickly they forget...
what all the people who vote for Ralph Nader say..."I cant tell the difference between a democrat and a republican!" I can't either anymore, and I've been a hard left democrat for 35 years!

If we could have gotten the people who voted for Nader in 2000, to see that we were different from Repubs, Al Gore would have won so big that Bush couldn't have stolen the election.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #21
36. Unfortunately people like Kaine
simply reinforce the belief that there is no difference. I am starting to wonder if there is myself. At least with some Democrats, and with responses like this, there does not seem to be much of a difference between them.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #36
120. Exactly - it looks like there's no difference. The GOP talking point.
"So what if we're corrupt? There's no choice, the Dems are just as bad." Used to be, they'd claim the Dems were WORSE - but even the Kool-Aid drinkers can't always swallow that one any more.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #21
66. Nothing I can add to that. You nailed it!
I'm so sick of these people trying to prove (purposely or not) that we're no different from the Repugs.

Oh, and Kaine can take his "healing partisan wounds" and stuff it.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
22. Here's the DU liveblog of Kaine's sorry SOTU response:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x287329
thread title (1-31-06 GD): ************* OFFICIAL DEM RESPONSE THREAD #1 ***************

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livvy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
24. Ok...who put Mr. Rogers in a suit?
I happen to know that Mr. Rogers always preferred to speak to his children in a comfortable button front cardigan. I can't see what this impostor has on his feet, but I bet they forgot the comfy slip-ons also.
This is not what we need to set things straight. This guy is way too soft-spoken. The problems we have are not things to talk about in comforting terms.
I think even Mr. Rogers is rolling over in his grave.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Yeah, here's a photo of Kaine. He'd probably look BETTER in Mr. Rogers'
sweater, because as it is, he looks like a stuffed suit:


Mr. Rogers was known to tell kids about painful truths sometimes. Not this guy.
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Caretha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #28
64. He looks like a Republican to me
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #64
95. he gave me the creeps immediately.
He look way tooooo much like dana whorbacher for me 2 trust him.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #64
98. Yes, check out that AMERICAN FLAG PIN - GOP wannabe all the way. n/t
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #64
102. Pure white bread..........
the "Ned Flanders" type. :eyes: Gosh-diddly-darn-it!
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #64
129. nominated as silliest post in this thread
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
87. Holy shit, THAT'S Kaine?!?!
Wow.

I am a big believer in a person'a face and eyes telling a lot about them.

Any what I see there gives me the creeps -- BIG time.

He has what I call "pig eyes" -- small eyes that mask something very icky going on behind them. Put your hand over the lower part of his face and look at his eyes alone -- would you trust this man? Not as far as I could throw him. In my experience, men with these kinds of eyes tend to have a very secretive "kink" factor going on (hello Bill O'Rielly!) in their sexual lives.

Oh, blech. This is the best our party can do?
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. That's what I said. He reminded me of Mr. Rogers. What a
milquetoast. Obviously, the Dems STILL don't get it.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
100. They get it, they just don't want to do anything about it. They're the
Vichy Democrats, "leadership" by appeasement.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #100
117. Only it's not appeasement. They are FOR fascism.
They have no problem at all with the Bush agenda. It is not something to resist, it is something to support. By all means possible. They believe in corporate rule over the unwashed masses. And hell, if we don't fuss too much about being enslaved to them, they might even let a few gay folks get married every now and then. Resistance is now futile until this leadership is purged.

Heads on pikes!!!
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
25. They are trying to reach out to
swing voters who may be unhappy with things Bush are doing. I got from watching him that he's trying to appeal to them the most with people who are fed up with scandals and target them with simple things. He did pound that democrats have been doing all the heavy lifting, but when he talked about Virginia he made it specific to point out they worked well with republicans and made it work. I think if they were to get a southern democratic governor they should've got Phil Bredesen of Tennessee. He is the type of democrat who all types of people like, he has a nice voice for radio addresses and he is NOT DLC (I know, I was shocked but pleased too). He is up for re-election in 2006. Will he get it? :shrug: Only thing I think people have been displeased with is the health care deal. He had a very high raiting this time last year (70%) and was even being tossed around for a presidential run. You can see his sites here:

http://www.bredesen.com/ (Re-election site)

http://www.tn.gov/governor/ (Tennessee site)

He's got an impressive resume to boot and he was mayor of Nashville twice.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
26. I'm just listening to Kaine's response.
What was that all about. First, I don't need a missionary to address the issues of governance. This was so DLC. I don't need someone to be all meally mouthed about "bipartisanship"--whatever the hell that bastardized term means now. I want the public faces in this party to TAKE A GODDAMNED STAND FOR SOMETHING.
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foreverdem Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #26
35. It was so lame
That was one of the worst responses I have ever heard to a SOTU. What was all this droning on and on about Repubs and Dems working together to solve problems? The Repubs have made it clear that they have no intention of working with Dems on anything. More like we have to take them on rather than work with them.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
30. all i can tell you is
kaine put me to sleep.
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northamericancitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. If I was an American, he would give me nightmares.
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557188 Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #31
44. The eyebrow gave me nightmares
I have no clue what Kaine said. I was to focused on the eyebrow. Seriously...WTF?
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janetle Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #44
58. Bad Botox on one side??
I do not mean to be petty. I did not watch it but my husband did. My husband tends to be more conservative than me because of his staunch republican upbringing but I have managed to bring him along the left bank.

My husband could not stand it and told me this morning that the eyebrow drove him nuts. Everytime Kaine got a little excited, the eyebrow would move further up his forehead. My husband said it looked like he'd had botox and it worked more on one side than the other. That is all he could focus on, too.

And he made the comment that we have got to somehow package our punches better to KO the republicans.
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SeattleRob Donating Member (893 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #44
69. He has Milhouse Van Houten Eyebrows !
Could you imagine the difference if we had Murtha giving the rebuttal???

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Loge23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
33. An organized opposition is urgently needed
Forget the Democratic party if they cannot get it together.
An organized opposition is urgently needed!!
We are losing our freedom, losing our liberty.
Our country has been hijacked by a criminal enterprise.
We need a massive, organized, non-violent opposition movement NOW!!

We must stop this madness. We must bring these thugs to whatever justice we have left.
The domestic spying cases will eventually go to the Supreme Republican Court. What happens when this court sanctions this activity?
We're all screwed!
Resist, organize, demand real leadership. It's our only hope at this point.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
96. LEADERSHIP
this country id screaming for leadership. All we have is mediocrity in abundance. How did we become a nation of such stunning mediocrity?
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
34. kick n/t
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Taliesihne Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
37. How do I say this?
We need to play for keeps folks.

Playing to the middle, playing to values, and toning down the rhetoric are keys to winning the country back. Whether or not it's completely in line with our ideology is inconsequential - we have to be elected before we can see a realization of our ideals. We will NOT win the country back by being seen as whiners, like it or not. The approach that Arianna is suggesting will embolden hard line democrats, but will do nothing to swing the church going, gay hating, war mongering idiots who put George Bush in office to begin with - these are the folks that the Dem party needs to win over, and they are only going to be able to do it with moderate Dems like Kaine and\or Warner. We have to reach out to the other side to win.

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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. I'm not sure about that.
A lot of those people aren't going to be moved. I think Kaine means well, and I also think we need to challenge the basis for the War while acknowledging we have a responsibility to try to stabilize the situation over there.

The fact is that Bush has not made an effort to stabilize the situation. It's really telling that such high numbers of Iraqis sympathize with the insurgency after being under the rule of Saddam Hussein. If the insurgency is doing better PR than our troops, then we really must be doing a horrible job over there.

I think it would have been completely possible for the Iraq War to have been cleaned up if Kerry had won. General Clark had a lot of good ideas about how to inject some goodwill into the process by internationalizing the reconstruction and presenting coalition troops as peacekeepers rather than simply occupiers.

But those people you mentioned are not interested in that. These people are easily manipulated by hyperbole and flag waving. We can win without them, so long as we prove that we are willing to fight for sensible people. Our Democrats have done a good job of making their points, but until we have media that are willing to give them a chance to make their points and give our agenda credit for existing, we will continue to have problems convincing people that we are serious.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #37
48. stop making sense, this thread was really on a roll.
Seriously, I hope some of your logic sinks in around here.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #37
55. There's not anything that's going to swing that type of voter,
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 10:13 AM by Lars39
except maybe their missing $$$, due to some type of hardship.
The true base is the disenfranchised, the working poor, etc.
All you have to do to get their vote is to make sure their votes count and to work towards helping them,
'cause their numbers are growing and it's damn sure the republicans do not want to help them.
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Taliesihne Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #55
63. You do realize?
That with a few exceptions, plans to cater to as yet unregistered voters fail? Vote mobilization is a good way to bolster your base, but counting on it as a key to success is folly.

Basically, what I'm saying here is that you are correct, but surmounting the political apathy that grips the disenfranchised is not an easy task nor a certainity.

We need to deal in reality, and the reality is that the DNC has to find a way to get portions of the conservative vote if it wants to win. The way to do that is to appeal to their values, not try to convince them to change them.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. Nope, reality has always been getting people to the polls.
Bush's base, the conservative voters won't change the way they vote, 'cause most of them are bat-shit crazy.
They've spent the last few years demonizing Dems, they're not crossing over unless their particular ox has been gored.

Going after the true Democratic base shouldn't be about votes, it should be about doing right by them, ie fighting for their civil rights, trying to end poverty, ending the war, supporting families, etc.
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Taliesihne Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #65
72. And the only way to do that
Is to woo voters in the middle. I'm not talking about eroding Bush's base, I'm talking about getting moderates to swing democratic, which the DNC failed to do en masse in the last election. The littany of problems involved in getting the disenfranchised to vote, then having that vote actually be counted is longer then my arm. The path of least resistance is to get the middle to swing left in 06 and 08. Once power is secured, then you work on advancing the ideology - but you have to win first.
I happen to agree with the tactic - being hardline anti-Bush and anti-conservative has not worked - it's time to try something different. I think presenting the conservative side of the Democratic party will have greater appeal to Americans on both sides of the aisle. Arianna is suggesting that the DNC continues to marginalize itself. If you need to secure the votes of the whole country to win, and not just your base, you have to be willing to give a little in your ideology - the DNC should a willingness to do this last night. Until the neo cons hijacked Washington, politics was all about compromise. We need to get back to that and quit playing into the republican's plans to divide and conquer.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. These magical people in the middle swing on their own.
People are fed up with conservatives right now. It's been the DLC goal to swing the party to the right, that is the divide and conquer, and it has resulted in friendly fascism.
Give a little in ideology my ass; that's all we've been doing for years. :grr:
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Taliesihne Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #73
78. We haven't given anything
It was stolen from us.

All I'm saying is appearing more moderate is a safer play, and I respect that. The DNC needs to be solidifying their image as the blue collar party - I think Kaine does a good job of that.

It's easier to swing the nation to the left once you have power, not before. Americans may be sick of conservatives, but they are even more sick of perceived intellectual elitism and anti-religion. Like it or not, that's what the right wing noise machine has painted us as. We will have to overcompensate because of it.

Regardless, thanks for the civil discussion. Dissention among the ranks is a good thing :)
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #78
81. You're better
at this than me. :)
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Taliesihne Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Thanks
And thank you for the general welcome as well. I'm new here, obviously. I look forward to many future discussions :patriot:
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #78
93. Kaine doesn't stick up for human rights...he's against gay marriage.
I don't know his track record on women, but if he doesn't believe in right to privacy, right to choose, he's toast.
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Taliesihne Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #93
101. Then it's a good thing
That he is a messenger and not a candidate :evilgrin:
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. His being chosen sent an unfavorable message to the GLBT community
and the rest of us who care about human rights.
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Taliesihne Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #104
105. Don't shoot the messenger because of the message
As a pagan, it bothers me personally to see the DNC invoking Christianity, but I'm able to set aside my personal objections because
Kaine brought a message that needed to be spoken, and because it's what's I believe is best for the entire nation. Just because Tim Kaine brought the message does not mean that the DNC endorses everything he personally stands for. If and when he becomes a candidate, that is the time to nit pick his convictions.

I would agree that the DNC needs to come out in favor of gay rights, but there is a larger issue at stake here.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #104
106. I don't believe you make progress on those
issues by making the Democractic Party weaker. Make the National Party stronger and then you have a much better chance of making progress. Example: Clinton in 92. He had the congress he needed to make some changes that were pro GLBT if I am not mistaken. In any event, you certainly will not make progress when the Democratic party loses seats. And you can forget a third party. The only way to effectively start a third party is get the party in power and then defect. Oops I shouldn't have told you that, heh.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. You either stand for everyone's rights, or you stand for nothing.
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Taliesihne Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #106
108. One of our biggest issues
Is the inability to set aside differences of opinios and organize to reach a common goal like the conservatives have. We have to get over this factionalization of our party and start working together.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #73
79. choosing to disconnect from the "magical people"
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 11:59 AM by Jim4Wes
The magical people are the ones that vote, correct? In the states we do not have correct? So lets see, we are in the minority and we are choosing not to agressively campaign for the group that always votes in the states we always loose.

Like I said in another response this is not rocket science.

In order to regain a majority in congress we must change our strategy. How much evidence do you need to see that? The Clinton strategy winning twice doesn't mean anything to you?
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #79
94. The core fundy conservative base will not vote for a Dem.
We're just shy of being the devil to them. :) Changing the strategy *would be* going after those who don't vote.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #94
109. Who voted for
Mark Warner
Tim Kaine
Bill Clinton
and all the other traitor Dems /sarcasm.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #37
70. Welcome to DU
:hi:

Ain't nothing we can do to win over the Bible thumpers, and "moving toward the middle," which actually means moving somewhere to the right of Richard Nixon, does nothing but make us look like Republican wannabees.

No one is asking a Dem to whine. Republicans whine whenever someone is MEEEEEN to one of them. We're asking for people to stand up for the principles this country was founded on. That's not whining.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
88. Fuck the "church going....
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 12:26 PM by Hell Hath No Fury
gay hating, war mongering idiots" -- and shame on you for even SUGGESTING we need to reach out to these neanderthals to win! How about reaching out to Greens and Libertarians??? You know, sane people we might have a chance at getting without SELLING OUR FUCKING SOULS?????
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #37
125. there are two americas now-- the middle must choose sides...
...and so must we.
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #37
127. Nah, that's not how you play for keeps...
That's the same old Republican-lite bullshit strategy that has already failed repeatedly. I can't believe anyone still buys into that tired old crap. Screw that! You play for keeps by:

-- ruthlessly obliterating the neocon brand
-- trashing the reputations of their spokespersons
-- vigorously attacking and defeating Dems who enable the RW agenda
-- embracing the needs of the common person vs. the plutocracy - declare class warfare and take it to them with a vengeance

"Playing to the middle, playing to values, and toning down the rhetoric" is the exactly the opposite of what we should be doing. And screw values! Politics is about having a place at the table and dividing up the pie - period. Values are personal. Interjecting issues pertaining to personal values into politics is a con-game played by sleazebags without consciences. And we need to call them on it - not try to play the same game. It's all about money and it always has been.

We could take this country back with a strategy based on truth, backbone, and the common good. But it can't be sold by the pussies we have at the helm now, and we'll never win with DLC sellouts who can't even appeal to their base - they have no base! They are the ultimate panderers. They stand for nothing and disgust both sides. With ruthlessness and truth we could bury the RW.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
39. I'm Glad Arianna Feels This Way
and apparently so do a lot of other people. I thought Kaine was the perfect choice -- for Republicans. He was a lightweight and clearly out of his league. He castrated himself every time he opened his mouth. It was especially bad because he replaced Murtha, who would have brought some stature and credibility to the podium.

The political fallout is minor. Two months from now everyone will have forgotten this. But it disappoints me that Reid and Pelosi were responsible for this travesty. I just hope that NEXT TIME somebody up there gets a clue!
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selmo7 Donating Member (275 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
40. Horrible HORRIBLE Dem Response
Nothing at all challenging the illegal eavesdropping on American citizens. Truly WTF????
I couldn't believe THIS was the Dem response -
And wasn't it odd to watch - how his left eyebrow kept arching and raising???
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
42. It's called Appeasement, and it doesn't work

"My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time."
--Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, Sept. 1938
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #42
61. Appeasement works if your * and have the reigns in your hand
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 10:50 AM by nolabels
As long as people pull the yoke it will work for him. The reality is the reality needs to be changed. It's getting ugly but it probably will have to get a lot more ugly before things change the minds of his steadfast supporters in this corporatized brainwashed society we call the U.S.

On edit: rational thought, good syntax and anger do not go together :shrug:
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
43. Luckily, Bush's speech was so lackluster that the milquetoast's
response probably won't do much to drag our side down.

But I tend to agree with Arianna (on many things, actually). One can fight for what's right without being overtly partisan.

I do find it strange how so many Democratic personalities seem to want to capitulate before the fight has even begun.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
45. You people are the anti-win wing of the party huh? n/t
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Mugsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
46. Anyone have Mayor Villaraigosa's translated response?
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 09:47 AM by Mugsy
ABC News said that Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa gave the Spanish language Democratic response to President Bush, where he actually spoke of "the culture of corruption" and (I think) Bush's illegal misdeeds (wiretapping, indictment of Libby and DeLay, etc)... the response that the rest of us SHOULD HAVE heard.

:mad:

(PS: found it on the LA Times.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
49. Does anyone know who chose Kaine and why Murtha didn't appear?
Who is responsible for choosing the Democratic SOTU responder? Is it some leadership committee - who's on it?
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ColonelTom Donating Member (415 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. This has DLC fingerprints all over it
Kaine's the New Democrat of the Week on the DLC website.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #49
103. The Washington Post (see OP) says Reid & Pelosi picked him.
I don't see why they didn't just choose an ACTUAL Republican, since the Republican wannabe they DID choose pleased no one at all and accomplished nothing. :sarcasm:

Kaine is about as DINO as you can get. What a disaster and what a revealing choice by the Dem leadership. We must let them know in no uncertain terms that this is NOT ACCEPTABLE, and their playing around with GOP appeasement as a "strategy" in this as in so much else has contributed the disastrous situation in which we now find ourselves.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
50. I think that the Dems did the right thing, and Kaine hit the right notes
In a quiet, polite folksy manner, one that connects with red state swing voters, Kaine took Bush to task for lying us into this war, cutting vetrans benefits, government corruption, not helping the Gulf Course, leaving our seniors out in the cold with the prescription drug bill, and much more.

I realize that it would have been immensely gratifying for us if the Dems had put up a fire breather to take Bush to task, but that would have just been fodder for the RW echo chamber, and the only message that would have resulted was how hateful, devisive and partisan the Dems are. But with Kaine, they're left high and dry, with nothing to latch onto in his style, and thus the message comes through loud and clear.

I applaud the Dems for this choice, one of the very few things they've done right lately.
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ColonelTom Donating Member (415 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
51. Kaine on Iraq - reinforced BushCo memes
Excerpt from Kaine's speech:

The President called again tonight for our commitment to win the war on terror and to support our troops. Every American embraces those goals. We can - we must - defeat those who attack and kill innocent people. While the images of the World Trade Center are seared in the minds of all Americans, so too are the memories of those who died on sacred ground in Virginia in the attack on the Pentagon. Our commitment to winning the war on terrorism compels us to ask this question: Are the President’s policies the best way to win this war?

We now know that the American people were given inaccurate information about reasons for invading Iraq. We now know that our troops in Iraq were not given the best body armor or the best intelligence. We now know the Administration wants to cut tens of thousands of troops from the Army Reserves and National Guard at the very time that we’re facing new and dangerous threats. And we now know the Administration wants to further reduce military and veterans’ benefits.

There’s a better way. Working together, we have to give our troops the tools they need to win the war on terror. And we can do it without sacrificing the liberty that we have sent our troops abroad to defend. Our support has to begin at home. That’s why we in Virginia – Democrats and Republicans – have reformed and enhanced our Department of Veterans Services to help our veterans and their family members access the federal benefits that they have earned. And, we are working to provide state re-enlistment bonuses to honor Virginians who stay in service to Commonwealth and Country.

Once again, the Democratic response uses the same terminology as BushCo. We're fighting a war on terror. Let's talk about the World Trade Center images some more! Great idea. And the closest we can get to talking about wiretaps and domestic spying is a vague phrase about "sacrificing the liberty that we have sent our troops abroad to defend" - once again, reinforcing the BushCo meme that our troops are in Iraq to defend liberty.

Somewhere, George Lakoff is weeping.
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samhsarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
54. Ugh....
And he's a homophobe, too. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2426804&mesg_id=2426804

Great. yeah that's what the Dems stand for. More war on Iraq, bring it on. Gays get married? Not on our watch. Jesus, this is pathetic. Just pathetic. If the voting public in this country is that twisted that we need to appease them by promising them endless war and gay hating just to get elected, I want a new country.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
57. for the most part, i felt he did all right
but he really dropped the ball with his take on the iraq war
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RedOnce Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
60. An unpopular President running an unpopular war while wiretapping
American citizens and “our greatest need is to heal our partisan wounds”???

Someone convience me that we still have a two party system!
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
62. Dems to world: we're normal, Rs are extremists.
That's how I read Kaine's response.
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DirtyDawg Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
71. Who the hell put the DLC in charge?
For the first time I took the time to look over the DLC website in an effort to get a sense of 'who died and made them king?' Still don't know. When it started years ago - before geedubya bush and dickless cheney and karl 'therovemeister' took over and declared open warfare that a petulant newt gingrich started because he couldn't ride in the front of the plane - it very well might have represented a nice list of principles and policies that would serve a leader well while trying to run a country. In fact, when you look back over their 'Hyde Park Declaration' from 2000, there's nothing there about 'First, you gotta win something'...and as near as I can tell, Democrats haven't won shit since this bunch was handed the mantle from the Clintons. These, so called 'centrist' Demos can attempt to lay claim to the strategies and policies of the success of the Clinton administration all they want, but the only reason he, Bill, served those eight years was because he was a great candidate - articulate and attractive (to enough) to win.

The fact is, the DLC's been offering a 'can't we all just get along' strategy while Repigs, as reflected by delay/rove/bush/cheney/etc., etc., were 'killin' 'em and buryin' 'em in the desert'. This 'let's get along' crap has cost dems two presidential elections, the leadership in Congress and has been responsible for the perception that we aren't tough on terrorism - if you won't stand up and fight a repig, then why should I think you'll fight a suicide bomber?

I just hope that Howard is working toward overturning this apple-cart and taking the lead in this battle to win something. And while I don't necessarily think that a 'good cop/bad cop' strategy is a winner, I'm willing to accept anything that will give us more people that'll spit in the eye of every republican out there...as well as to never again answer a lame-ass question from a numb-nut news person (and that includes the distaff-side) without challenging them for their own opinion - 'the real question Tim, is how in blazes you, and others in the media, can stand by and allow the deceit and failures of this administration go un-challenged?

Take the reins Howard, we're with you. But do it soon, before it's too late.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #71
74. RW think tanks.
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primative1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #74
76. BULLSH*T ALERT
I have been hearing a new spin angle a lot the past few days on the news (both local and national) and didnt think much of it until I heard EL Chimpo echo the line last night ...

"in deficit due to Katrina"

They are trying to spin the whole damn deficit off as being an act of God out of their control. Yell long and loud everytime you hear this line or else our corporate media will re-write this history as well
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. Did you mean to direct this post to me?
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primative1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. Hmm ...
I just hit reply to the last post ... which wound up being yours :)
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #80
86. I can't access my DLC folder, but here's a list of RW think tanks to googl
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
75. Someone left a great comment:
I'd rather lose with integrity in another Party...than to continue losing with pandering Democratic assholes.

Posted by: daveh on February 01, 2006 at 01:58am


I'm a yellow-dog Dem and it breaks my heart to see the party I love kiss corporate ass.
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
84. Arianna is correct. What the fuck were they thinking?
I mean really.. How much more bullshit from our own damn party to we have to endure?
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #84
130. If she is right on a matter of political strategy, it would be a first
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2431213&mesg_id=2431320

Bottom line: the facts are that Ariana Huffington couldn't get elected to a statewide office in a state that leans solidly Democratic, while Tim Kaine won the governorship of a state that leans red most of the time. So, if the goal is to appeal to swing voters in states that tip red, but might go blue, I think I'll pay more attention to Tim Kaine than to Ariana Huffington. Chasing after losers is not the road to success.

onenote
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neuvocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
92. She is both right and wrong on this.
She is right with regards to the Dem response. There are hundreds of better choices for speakers and the guy they had last night wasn't among them. This whole thing reeks of DLC control.

She is wrong in that Bush is unwilling to cut and run. The only reason that we went to Iraq in the first place is the oil. We can't get that oil anymore. There's no more incentive to stay there because its entirely too expensive. The U.S. will raise a new army and police force but it won't stay very long to do it.

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whododayis Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
97. tim kaine (R/DLC) VA
if they think that this type of approach will draw repub. voters, i got news for you. a repub. voter will instinctively never vote for anyone with a (D) next to their name. quit trying. instead, try acting like a democrat, and you'll have democrats, independants, and people tired of crooks, liars, and the usual assortment of career profiteers lined up in droves to contribute, organize, work with, and vote for you.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
110. The only thing wrong with this party is that...
they listen to repugs tell them what is wrong with them and then start critizing each other. Doesn't any one see by now Pelosi and Reid are to weak and always respond to the repugs. Dems need to speak out and quit back tracking on their words.

They need to go look back at how nasty and hateful those hypocrites were in the 90's.Repugs made a big deal out of little things that weren't important and called Dems liars and didn't back down. Everytime the Dems seem like they get it they say something and someone in the background does something and they apologize.WEAK, WIMPY and AFRAID OF LOSING ELECTIONS.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
111. who do we have to call to get Dems to fire DLC?
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
112. I just watched the C-SPAN archived video. she is so right on this.
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 03:28 PM by jonnyblitz
it was awful. I couldn't finish watching it.
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janetle Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
115. Why oh why didn't they pick MT Gov. Schweitzer????
That would have been fun and interesting. He is a real rancher and a real cowboy. He says what he means, he hates dishonesty, he is a breath of fresh air and he has some interesting ideas on energy resources. And he is Gov. of a state that went for Bush.
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captain disgruntled Donating Member (153 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
116. *MAN*--where were all you people when poor Tim was
running for governor??? Holy crap.
I worked on his campaign, and I've seen him once; he's capable of coming across as a very accessible, easy-going, earnest and pleasant person. I agree that he was out of his element last night--excessively scripted and stiff. I was surprised when I heard that he was scheduled to deliver the rebuttal--he's only just been elected to his first term as governor, and none of his prior experience is on a very geographically wide scale--I'm sure that a good 60% of the viewing nation was scratching their heads going "Tim WHO??"
That said, I thought he did a fair job of painting Dems as a viable alternative, and subtly expressing disagreement and disapproval of the way things IS going...
Though, yeah, I would rather have heard Jack Murtha roll over the *.
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RazzleDazzle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #116
121. Fair job wasn't what was needed.
Glad you're fond of him -- but that's not what was needed.
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Diogian Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
118. Agreed

The dum-dem response inspires an intense desire to dig a hole, shoot myself, and let the dog cover me up...
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. Yeah, well, in spite of all that, welcome to DU, Diogian!
Let's have a toast while we wait for the dog.
:toast:
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Diogian Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #119
123. And they want me to send in 'more' money!?!
Thanks for the welcome, I've been here in the past years but I am a diogian even in my posting habits.
A bit of a question for anyone who might happen to want to answer (I can't start threads, bummer)
I'm looking at this little credit card sized piece of plastic from the DNC. A "MEMBER" card -ooh how exciting.
It's supposed to make me feel like I belong to some club that is looking out for my interests.
I know you're rolling on the floor laughing at me right now for my naivete (sp), admittedly I feel like the butt of the joke.
But, my question is what is the diff between the DLC and the DNC. Seems to me that the DLC is damned determined to make the democrats as republican lite. Is my money supporting the republicanification of the democratic party? Should I ever send them another dime? Most of all - Why won't they fight back? They appear as weak, limp, gutless, bushco doormats.
Sorry, I got caught up in my anger and drug this post out.
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whathappened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
122. tuned in
on the speech on and off tell the dem respone came on , and what did i see , some dam lilly littled clone from who no,s trying to ack like he is on our side , i,m about as pissed as one could get right now , i had in mind we should had been kicking w right in the balls and calling him what he is , a lieing sack of shit , these dam people need to get a diff life , we need so hard ass people in there saying what needs to be said
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
126. The Democratic leaders have so obviously surrendered
that I'm actually feeling calm about it. It's over. There is nothing more to fight. The fight isn't going to be in the halls of congress, or in the voting booth. Unless some thundering hero appears magically over the hills with ten billion dollars and his own army-who-a Kennedy type well anyway-the sixties part two is coming-and this time it will really be on acid.

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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
128. SHE IS RIGHT
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womanofthehills Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
131. Young Turks were so grossed out by him
I was on a road trip with my daughter and at least enjoyed the Young Turks reacting to his response. The guy had no emotion and what a monotone speaker. I kept saying "Who the hell picked him?"
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
132. My only regret is that it's too late to recommend this thread.
I can kick it, though, stunned as I am that the Dems would pick a guy who lies about iraq's part in the "war on terror" insanity.

THIS is who they picked - an anti-gay conservative Christian who drops rightwing lies into his response?

Fuck him, and them.

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