Mom shops in Neiman Marcus with dog, leaves 2 yr old in car

[The Straight Story]

CPS to check shopper’s child in car case
By Mike Sakal, Tribune
December 14, 2006

State child welfare officials said Wednesday they will investigate an incident involving a Scottsdale mother who left her 2-year-old son sleeping in the back seat of an unlocked BMW in the Neiman Marcus parking garage at Scottsdale Fashion Square while she shopped with her dog.

Liz Barker, Arizona Child Protective Services spokeswoman, confirmed the office received a report of neglect involving the child and will conduct a safety-risk assessment to determine whether the boy has a safe home.

Gardenia Zakrzewski Johansson, 39, who has taught at several Montessori schools throughout the Valley in the last few years, was arrested by Scottsdale police on suspicion of child neglect shortly after 3:30 p.m. Monday when she left the department store. Police received a call from mall security after two valets of Epic Valet told them Zakrzewski Johansson had asked them to watch her son and not to tell anybody, a police report says.

Zakrzewski Johansson returned to the garage about 30 minutes later, the police report says. She told police she was going to pick up a Christmas gift, but it wasn’t gift-wrapped or ready to take home, which is why the trip took so long.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=80584

[slackmaster]

1. Sounds like some of the self-centered, thoughtles people around here

Nouveau-riche twits who can't afford to leave the kid at home with a nanny but have to pretend to be affluent.

Except it would probably be a Hummer instead of a Beamer.

[xultar]

2. I bet she thought though she didn't want to wake him up. A barking dog in the car

would have woken him up.

[slackmaster]

4. Yes, a crying baby is a hassle to deal with

It wouldn't go with whatever shoes she was wearing.

[xultar]

12. I'm not sayin it was the right thing to do. I'm sayin I bet that is what she thought...

let the baby sleep.

[slackmaster]

14. I hope my assumptions about her mindset are wrong

Maybe all she needs is a few "parenting" (Oh how I loathe the word) lessons.

[Javaman]

42. or eaten it...

You had to have read the recent story of the pitbull puppy that gnawed off the babies toes...

[xultar]

50. EXACTLY! I read that story.

[rkc3]

3. Maybe the dog's sweater matched her handbag better than the

child's one-piece.

[slackmaster]

5. Baby as fashion accessory

You beat me by one minute.

[bumblebee1]

17. Look a the stupid twits in the entertainment media

They refer to an obviously pregnant actress as sporting a "bump." Pregnancy as a fashion accessory, not a life changing event.

[Clark2008]

66. Which is insulting to the non-aneorxic average folk.

I'm 3 and 1/2 months - right now I have a "bump." In two months, I'll have a friggin' mountain.

[Maine-ah]

110. lol, I was showing at 12 weeks.

by the time I was 6 months people were asking me if I was having twins! idiots. I'm not even 5 feet tall, I was all baby.

Congats on your pending arrival, ours is just 5 weeks old today.

[Red Zelda]

6. All hatred of the wealthy and powerful aside...

please tell me what was so wrong with what this woman did?
And, you wonderful folks who smoke/swear/drink in front of kids, please speak first.
Complete sentences if possible.

[The Straight Story]

8. Well, here is one simple take on it

If you had a million in cash would you leave it in the car while you went shopping?

Most people wouldn't I think - for fear of it being stolen. But some think nothing of leaving their kid in a car while they shop.

2 years old. Yeah, there is a LOT wrong with it.

[woodsprite]

21. My son is 6 and I won't

leave him to sleep in his booster seat even if the car is in our garage. I figure he'll wake up scared and he can't get out of his booster seat yet without me, hubby, or his sister helping (really hard buckle to push). I also won't go walk the dog after I put him to bed. I'll piddle the dog on our property then we go right back in, but won't walk the cul-de-sacs until someone else is home in the house with him. I don't think I'm that unusual or overprotective of a parent to feel that way. I would think (or hope) that most parents would be that way.

I believe there is a law on the books that sets the minimum age for leaving a child alone in the house (I think it's 13yo), so why wouldn't that apply to a car situation?

[The Straight Story]

23. I am the same way

I wouldn't leave my little girl in the car just to run something in the house if she was asleep. Seems damned crazy.

[I Have A Dream]

26. Also, the car was unlocked! I know that it says that she asked the...

valets to keep an eye on the child, but still... what if both valets were busy parking cars at the same time?

I can empathize to a point, but it really was a stupid thing to do.

[Tight_rope]

111. I believe you wrapped that up in a nutshell real nicely!...nuff said!

[Phredicles]

9. For starters, she tried to fob off responsibility for her child on the

mall security personnel, in whose job description I doubt you'll find "babysitting".

[sweetheart]

18. This was niemen Marcus, not walmart

She was in a fancy place where she surely spent a fair penny on whatever gift,
why shouldn't they cut her some slack and let her get an errand done without
dragging a slow-walking cranky in to it.

This is a non-issue, the woman didn't do anything wrong. Its only an issue for the
meddlesome branch of the democratic party that thinks it knows better than a mother
how to call the shots with her child.

The anti-smoking, drugs-warrior, child-nazi, seatbelt-nazi, meddlesome boor party
should really recognize that it is the enemy of power.

[The Straight Story]

24. Most sad post I have read here in awhile...

I don't care what store it was in. Wrong is wrong.

[Phredicles]

35. I'd about bet a nickel Sweetheart was being sarcastic.

Just my guess.

[The Straight Story]

45. You owe me a nickel :) (nt)

[verse18]

36. I agree-

the 2yo is the victim of his mother's bad judgment. I guess to some people it's okay to put a 2yo in harm's way to go shopping. Post like this one will ensure that I always have a job and unfortunately I work in child welfare.

[blondeatlast]

116. Thank you for doing a thankless job and no doubt you are overburdened.

All I want to do is scream at some of the mom's defenders--I LIVE in Arizona and grew up very close to where this happened--

WHAT IF IT WERE JULY?

[sweetheart]

37. with due respect, bullshit

You're talking like a nosey noser, and look where its got you.

My mother has left me in the car for short errands back in the 60's that
was just fucking fine; but now its a crime becuase people who are 1000+ miles
away on the internet don't realize that the place was very secure,
and leaving a kid in the car to sleep is done all over the world
except where nosey assholes fluff up a crime.

[DixieBlue]

41. Are you serious?

She did all kinds of wrong things.

The kid was TWO! I have a three year old and there's no way in hell I'd leave my kid in my car no matter where I was or who I was. She took her DOG in the store with her. Her fucking dog. Her barking, peeing, pooping dog.

This isn't about people being meddlesome, it's about making sure that kids are treated with respect and like human beings. What if that baby woke up? And his mommy was gone? What if someone tried to take off with the car while the valets were busy?

Having money does not allow you to forget your parent responsibilities. And shopping with a child is not difficult. If she wanted to shop without him she should've found a babysitter.

[sweetheart]

55. maybe its not a federal case

She just nipped in for a shop while her baby slept. Had nobody 'finked' on her,
nothing would have happened, and all this scaremongering hasn't helped her or the kid.

Her parent responsibility was to make sure nothing happened to her child... and besides
being harrassed by a bunch of noses, her biggest mistake was underestimating the
vindictiveness of our nanny culture.

It used to be normal for a mother to leave the kiddies in the car, and even take the
dog out, i can recall being 2 and my mum taking the dog out, it needed to do its buz,
and i was tired. Mom did her thing in the shop and came out, and back 1960's time,
that was ok, it was not a crime.

What happened that everyone has become so anal and rudely PC about other people,
what kind of souls have the time of day to judge others when they are so incredibly unaware themselves?

The sort of stuff is election-losing stuff... i hoope all the people who judge this woman sign
on with the republicans and do us a favour.

[DixieBlue]

61. Do you have children?

Would you leave your sleeping two year old in the car?

I don't care what moms did whenever ago. My mother did the same ... I, however, would not. My mom also smoked cigarettes and drank while pregnant with me. I did not do that when I was pregnant with my child. We're supposed to learn from the past, not keep repeating it.

What if leaving the baby in the car alone is usual practice for her? What if this wasn't some one time thing here? I hope this instance scared her out of doing that. As someone else mentioned a toddler is very capable of waking up and wondering off.

It's not scaremongering ... it's making sure children are safe. Are respected. Again, she took her dog in the store. I would think a dog in a store would've been a bigger hassle than a toddler. Cranky, or otherwise. She could've gotten the kid a snack and then shopped. She was just being selfish.

[sweetheart]

67. Past that age

My friends do it quite commonly, today, leaving kids in the car, strapped in to
their baby seats, but this is here in scotland, not scottsdale. This is not in a big
city, mind you, and no threat to kiddies is involved.

In a rural area, it is common to transport animals via vehicle, horses, cows, deer, dogs,
sheep... & humans. Each needs to be contained in a vehicle during transit, and each
can be a danger to itself it it gets out on a motorway.

But i must draw the line, with 'where is the harm'.

The woman did no harm to her child or anyone else, and provided that is the basis
of her life, the laws of man are irrelevant and wrongly focused on imaginary crimes.

[blondeatlast]

118. Being harrassed by a bunch of noses? ARIZONA, sister--if it were July, that kid would be DEAD.

We have a good samaritan law that mandates that children or animals left in vehicles MUST be freed by whatever means necessary without liability or criminal charges being brought against the good sam.

I've witnessed it with a chihuahua and reported it to the authorities and am damn glad we have the law (someone else broke into the car).

We need to--car interiors can get up to 190 degrees in virtually no time at all even with the windows open. Every year, a few children and HUNDREDS of animals die from being left in the car.

Public service campaigns, reminders in every parking lot--and still idiots leave their children and pets to literally bake to death. Not the way I want to go, and even less so were I helpless.

Scotland/Arizona--you may want to look at a climate map for comparisons.

[sweetheart]

119. "December" the OP says

I hear you, but i'm saying that that is an imagination. She did not do that,
it is december, and temperatures in that area round december can actually be
slightly cool even. The weather map says high 70, low 42.

That's a straw man that is not applicable when its cool like that.

I was specifically commenting on the op, no harm was done, none would have been,
its a bunch of nosey noses blowing it up in to something it wasn't, booga booga
terrorism, a child was left alone to no incident whatsoever in a safe place.

WOW!! mountain :: molehill ??

[Lurking Dem]

120. Are you familiar with the saying

"There but for the grace of G-d go I"?

[sweetheart]

123. is that saying self righteous and smug?

'There but for the grace of God go I' is a phrase used by the slf-righteous or smug when others are faced with disaster, disgrace or the like as a result of their actions.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/23/messages/1087.html

So says this phrase website. I don't talk like that even on bad days.

It seems so silly, that our society pisses away its goodwill on
petty noncrimes, bestially incriminating each other for exercising free will
away from the heard mentality. I'd wager that off the record, that woman would
confess her only mistake was getting caught.

Increasingly, our culture through media is being indoctrinated to treat non-crimes
as crimes. Rapes are less criminal than cannabis posession. Leaving a kid in a car
is worse than armed robbery, and on and on, as the nosey nosey people crimialize everything
that our freedom is a prison, and these authoritiarian pricks get to be our guards, just
because they talk a load of shit... worse yet, they expect to be paid for it.

Gosh, had every venal invective aimed at that woman been spent on a real criminal,
our world might actually be civil.

[Lurking Dem]

124. What a bizarre definition.

No it means that only G-d's grace has saved me from my own stupidity. It is a recognition one has done something careless or dangerous and got away with it through pure chance.

[shanti]

144. yeah, well

it's damn well ain't the 60's anymore!

[Mad_Dem_X]

103. Bingo!

"Having money does not allow you to forget your parent responsibilities. And shopping with a child is not difficult. If she wanted to shop without him she should've found a babysitter."

Well said!

[shanti]

143. EXACTLY!!

she took her goddam dog with her over her own child! there is no justfying this woman's actions, none! having children puts restrictions on you, and anyone who doesn't understand this is nuts.

oh, and what our parents did 40 years ago, is NOT the same! my parents left me and my siblings in the car while they went grocery shopping BACK IN THE 60's, but no responsible parent would do that now.

the responses of some du'ers disgust me. :(

[Javaman]

54. I'm sure your kids love you too. :) nt

[sweetheart]

70. yes they do, love the defense of liberty. :) nt

[Javaman]

84. I was being snarky, but apparently by your response, you're not.

Have fun with that second hand smoke lung cancer! :)

[mondo joe]

154. "Liberty" does not include child neglect.

Thank you.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

83. you think it should be OK to leave young children asleep in unlocked cars?

:crazy:

[Bluebear]

91. ...

agreed :crazy:

[sweetheart]

115. ..in safe places

I bet you are safer in the nieman marcus parking lot in scottsdale than
in your own home. As well, you must respect a mother's intuitive connection
to her child, knowing instantly when something's amiss, and surely this
woman felt and saw no harm come to her child... suprise, no harm did come,
and everyone is indicting the lady for terrorism,
as an example of class warfare, robbespierre will now lop off her legs and feed them to her,
and her real crime,
having the money to shop at nieman marcus where the parking lot is safer than a middle class home.

[redqueen]

134. less hyperbole, please.

no one has accused her of terrorism i'm sure.

the thing is, this assumption you have that since it's fancy schmancy neiman's, that no possibility of harm could be reasonably expected, 'cause it's 'safer than a middle class home' is just (imo) ridiculous. i don't expect you'll find many people who share that view. most people see what she did as neglecting her duties as a mom.

[rebel with a cause]

146. OMG, what are you thinking

First of all, it is not the responsibility of the valets to watch her child. She was being disrespectful to even ask them to, treating them like her own private servants.

Second, what if one of them was a pedophile, or what if they did not watch the child and someone took advantage of the situation and stold the child? She would be screaming and blaming the valets for not being responsible. There are too many people in this world who want to pass the responsibility of their children off to some one else, where they can have freedom. Well, responsibility outweighs want of freedom sometimes, and this was one of them.

Third, children have choked on objects, or gotten injured otherwise, when left unattended under these circumstances. And even more reasonable, how would you like to be a two year old who woke up to find themselves alone in a strange place? You keep pointing out the fact that this woman was probably well to do, well then she could afford to pay someone to watch her child while she ran this errand. Also, if this store is so swanky, it probably has a center where parents can leave their children, where the child will be watched for a small fee by someone trained to do so.

[Mad_Dem_X]

102. Whoa.

That post is wrong on so many levels, my brain's about to pop. So, I'll just: :popcorn:

[alarimer]

130. That's disgusting

It was a subhuman thing for her to do. In the summer, he would have died. She's lucky he wasn't kidnapped. She deserves some kind of punishment but I can't think of anything that wouldn't stop her being a selfish twit. Poor kid has to grow up with that.

[SammyWinstonJack]

141. !!

:wow:

[ComerPerro]

73. and she tried to blame the store for taking so long, since the gift wasn't wrapped

[teenagebambam]

10. A 2 year old

is old enough to wake up, get out of the car, and wander off. That's ONE thing wrong with what she did, for starters.

[verse18]

11. Nobody's hating on the wealthy and powerful

Where did that come from? Most responders point out that she was a mother who left a defenseless child unattended in an unlocked luxury car to go shopping, but took her dog with her instead. At least a dog has a fair chance of defending itself if something bad were to go down. What could a 2yo do? She placed her child in harm's way. Anything could have happened to that child or nothing could have happened, but you have a mother taking a chance on her child's safety for a Christmas gift.

[Red Zelda]

25. Where did that come from??

In the original post Nieman Marcus is mentioned BEFORE the kid, the dog, etc.
Apparently, this is more about bashing the rich than protecting anyone.

[verse18]

27. True enough. But where does that equal

bashing the rich?

[Red Zelda]

29. If this happened at Wal-Mart or Kmart or JCPenney

it probably wouldn't have been posted here.

[Bluebear]

31. Gee, Red Zelda, do you have a problem with DU?

:shrug:

[Red Zelda]

49. No

Do you have a problem with the fact that progressive politics and liberal thought extend beyond the bounds of personal finances? Or, in your world, is wealth an automatic sign of conservative bullshit?

You can bash a woman's behavior when she leaves a child in a car if you want, but the dropping of Nieman Marcus' name gives hint of bigger prejudices. I spend good money in many upscale stores. Does that make me unwelcome in your little cyber union hall?

[Bluebear]

51. What's wrong with union labor, do tell?

>Does that make me unwelcome in your little cyber union hall?< :eyes:

The store was mentioned because she asked car valets to watch the children, which evidently you do at your stores. BTW I spend money at upscale stores too so don't throw your money around here.

[Red Zelda]

57. My tone?

It might suit all points of view if people here were a lot less judgmental of others
and not start a smackdown on someone's parental skills because of that person's questionable
behavior at an upscale store.
Our time is better spent judging the actions of Bush and his criminals.

[The Straight Story]

59. Yeah, I did that earlier in a thread about * and the Navajos...only 1 reply though

Interesting....

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

81. "if people here were a lot less judgmental"

I'm sorry, weren't you just the person who assumed we hate the rich?

Sounds pretty judgemental to me.

[The Straight Story]

52. Had they said it was wal-mart in the article I would have noted that

I did not feel a re-write was in order though.

But then I might have been labeled a wal-mart hater.

[verse18]

43. That's not true.

DU regularly discusses stories of children getting left in cars. But this is the first time I can remember that store figured so prominently in the discussion. And it shouldn't even matter.

[The Straight Story]

46. Shows how well ya know me :) (nt)

[Pithlet]

53. What utter bullshit.

I've seen enough threads here about neglected children, and plenty of them did not take place by affluent people in an affluent area.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

77. Riiiiiiight.

We're all big fans of Walmart here.

[Mad_Dem_X]

104. ?????

:spray:

[mondo joe]

158. BS. Doesn't matter what lot a small child is left in. It's negligent.

Thank you!

[xultar]

13. I bet the kid was a sleep and she didn't want to wake him. My mom has

done it with me and my brother...especially when she had issues getting us to nap.

[verse18]

22. How old were you and your brother at the time?

Because your mother did it, does it make it right? It seems to me parents who leave their children in cars to go shopping because they're sleeping or whatever, see their children as inconveniences. There is no excuse for leaving a 2yo unattended in a car whether they are sleeping or not. It's a safety issue. The child's safety not the convenience of the parent.

[xultar]

32. I'm not saying she was right...I'm just sayin it is tough to be a mom.

[verse18]

47. I understand it's tough being a mom.

But the child's safety should be the priority. Wouldn't you agree?

[SoCalDem]

88. I think the underlying issue is the fact that it was unnecessary

This "mom" can afford NM, so why drag a sleepy toddler around on errands..and a dog?

Got something to pick up at NM? You CALL customer service and have 'em deliver it to you..or you send the household help to pick it up..or you leave the doggie and the kiddie at home with the nanny and run errands.

Well-off people have built in advantages, and it's a good idea -for them- to use them ..

Kids get tired on shopping trips..

It may have once been safe to leave a sleepy kid in the car, but not these days..

[barb162]

147. agree; good points

I bet this woman has learned her lesson and wishes she had never done that

[cwydro]

15. Yikes!

The car was unlocked and the child was only 2. With all due respect, that seems to be enough.

[Bluebear]

30. 'Complete sentences, please.'

:crazy:

[slackmaster]

16. The unlocked state of the car for one thing

Put the baby at risk for kidnapping, or wandering off and getting lost or injured.

You're not supposed to leave small children unattended. I've read the owner's manual.

[Bluebear]

20. Gee, Red Zelda, leaving a toddler in an unlocked vehicle in this day and age?

Nothing wrong with that in the least, Red.

:crazy:

[cwydro]

40. Yes, thank you.

You said it better than I. I was still reeling from the fact that the poster saw nothing wrong in leaving an infant/toddler in an unlocked car.

[cali]

33. You can't figure out what she did wrong?

Incroyable!!!

Let me walk you through it. She asked two employess of a parking valet service to watch her baby. One rather doubts she knew them all that well. They could have kidnapped the child. Even if they were fine upstanding citizens, they are presumably busy parking cars and fulfilling their other duties. Anyone could have seen the baby in the car and snatched it. You have seen stories about children being snatched, no? Amber Alert ring a bell?

And this has nothing to do with people hating the wealthy, though I certainly hold someone who is evidently educated, older, and has financial resources to a higher standard than I would if the mother in question was a 17 year old with in the way of resources.

Oh, and yes, when my son was a baby and throughout his childhood, I frequently had a glass of wine in front of him, just as my parents did with me. Pathetic that you can't tell the difference between that and the very real danger this woman put her child in.

[TahitiNut]

34. "Complete sentences if possible."

Do you mean sentences with subjects AND predicates? Like that one? (Uh-huh. I see.) :eyes:

[Cameron27]

148. !

:spray:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

65. If you have to ask what's wrong with it, I hope you don't have children.

Was that sentence complete enough for you?

[Gold Metal Flake]

68. Welcome to DU!

Enjoy your stay!

:hi:

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Horse with no Name]

80. Oh my.

To start with...and the list could be endless but what if the car was stolen? Caught on fire? Got hit by another car? Not like any of that has ever happened in a parking lot.:eyes:
What if the child started choking? What if the child had a seizure?
What if the child was scared?
You don't leave children alone unattended.
None of that has to do with power and wealth. It simply has to do with loving and protecting your child.
I shudder to think that since you don't see anything wrong with this, that it is something you practice.

On edit: 2-year olds are very curious.

[KansDem]

86. Anything can happen...and does...

PARK CITY—A man whose son froze to death after being left in a pickup while the father went hunting was sentenced Tuesday to 30 days in jail.

Despite a prosecutor's recommendation that Paul Wayment serve no jail time, 3rd District Judge Robert K. Hilder said the father needed to understand the seriousness of his actions. He also wanted the sentence to serve as a warning to other parents.

Wayment will report to jail Wednesday. The rest of his six month sentence was suspended. He will be on probation for a year and must undergo a mental-health evaluation.

Wayment, 38, was charged in the late October death of his 28 month-old son, Gage, who wandered away from the truck. Temperatures dipped well below freezing after the boy, who was wearing only pajamas, was reported missing.

An autopsy concluded he froze to death.

The Associated Press

The father went on to commit suicide...

http://www.pulitzer.org/year/2002/feature-writing/works/">Pulitzer

[LeftyMom]

89. She left a two year old unsupervised

To put it another way: would she have left her purse in the car and went to the mall? No way. Her kid is a hell of a lot more valuable, and he could have been kidnapped, could have woke up and got out of the car only to get run over or wander off, the car could have been stolen with him in it (that happened here a few years back.)

And for what it's worth, I've never left my child alone in the car and out of my sight.

I've been known to swear in front of my kid. I'm not endangering his life or health by doing so and he's smart enough to realize there are different standards for child and adult behavior- after all, he's not allowed to drive the car no matter how many times he's seen me do it. It's not the same thing at all.

[DiverDave]

95. Your kidding, right?

Tell me you are, because if you don't see a problem, you never will.

OF COURSE what she did was wrong, and in my book, she should go to jail.

[Dastard Stepchild]

98. I won't even leave my dog out of sight!

On those occasions when we are traveling together, I am a very cautious traveler. I make my traveling partner and I go into the gas station/rest stop in shifts. When we stop for a meal, it's always a 5 minute fast-food stop (and only on very mild, pleasant days - otherwise drive-thru) and I always make sure that I am seated at a window right next to my car so that I can keep an eye on her and the car.

So much can happen in such a short period of time, it isn't worth the risk. Someone could hit my car. Someone could break in and take her. I could be unexpectedly detained in the establishment.

[OzarkDem]

114. Rule I always used

If the kids are tired, don't go shopping. Wait until you can get a babysitter. I seldom took my children shopping with me when they were small. They don't usually enjoy it, or they enjoy it too much and you end up having to reprimand them or chase them around the store. Better to leave them at home.

And if you can't find a babysitter, shop by catalogue or online. Kids will grow up before you know it and you'll have plenty of time to cruise the malls.

[SoCalDem]

122. Are you "series"?

Are you "series"?... Some people get "hughly" offended when the "childrennnn" are not cared for. If you don't believe me, call the "spocksman".:P

[Bluebear]

127. :)

[mondo joe]

157. No hatred of the wealthy or powerful - just of negligence.

Leaving a small child unattended is negligence.

[bbernardini]

7. Another candidate for my "mandatory sterilization" program.

I really better start working on that exploratory committee.

[WI_DEM]

19. And then she asks the mall security to keep an eye on him

like there aren't other cars around to keep an eye out on. It isn't their jobs to act as nannies. They acted correctly to report her. I wonder what might have happened if that child had woken up and found himself in a empty car with nobody around him.

[Red Zelda]

28. It is, of course, way, way, way too much to ask

for security people to do their jobs.
It's bad enough most of them where I shop couldn't outrun a lightpost.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

44. Hey Red Zelda, I don't what kind of world you live in but in mine

I would never leave a sleeping 2 year old child in a mall parking lot in an unlocked car.

Since when is it the "job" of security guards to perform "babysitting" duties?? :sarcasm:

BTW, I don't even have children but geez have some common sense...

ETA: sarcasm tag, so it's not lost on other posters.

[cali]

48. Are you actually suggesting

that is the job of security at a mall to babysit?? Oh, and in case you didn't notice, I explained precisely what was wrong with what this woman did in post #33. I want to add that she clearly KNEW what she was doing was wrong; she asked the valet employees not to tell.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

60. Um, cali I wasn't in the least trying to say that part of the

security guards jobs were babysitting duties.

I was being sarcastic at RZ's attitude about them. I guess irony/sarcasm is lost on people's sensibilities these days.

[cali]

64. sorry, I meant to reply to red zelda n/t

[Bunny]

72. You actually did reply to red zelda.

[DixieBlue]

56. Their job is not to watch sleeping children in cars ...

It's to monitor the area as a whole.

It's the mother's job to make sure her child is safe and secure. It's not to take little Fido into a store ... any store ... while her baby sleeps in the car.

Edited for typo.

[ComerPerro]

75. again, you're an idiot. And I really think you are in the wrong place

[WI_DEM]

90. It's there job to watch a 2-year old while mommy shops?

I don't think so.

[Mad_Dem_X]

106. Their job is not to babysit! n/t

[mondo joe]

155. Babysitting is not part of security's job.

Thank you.

[Ian David]

38. I heard she was arguing about being charged $500 for a cookie recipie. n/t

[prole_for_peace]

142. ha!!!

:spray:

[Javaman]

39. What to do, what to do? Dog or baby...hmmmm which one...

Why isn't there a test for people who want to have children?

Stupid people make my brain hurt.

Ow, there it goes again.

[TahitiNut]

62. To be fair, the dog was probably an AKC-registered purebred.

Whereas the toddler was probably a mongrel and not show-worthy. :crazy:

[Red Zelda]

69. I thought so.

[TahitiNut]

71. Sure you did.

[ComerPerro]

76. I am not suprised at all, though.

[Ezlivin]

63. Settle down folks! She left the kid a set of keys and a cellphone

He could have turned on the radio and chilled to some tunes or driven around the parking lot while chatting with friends.

Or didn't you understand that she was a teacher at a Montessori school? Obviously her son would have been advanced for his age....

[ComerPerro]

78. true, and if something went wrong, he would handle it. LOL

[bullwinkle428]

79. When did Paris Hilton give birth? I figured the tabloids would be

all over this!!

[Chimichurri]

82. If she were poor, she'd have already

had her child taken from her.

[bleedingheart]

85. it's all about her....

doesn't matter whether she was shopping at Neiman's or if she was going into the Stop-n-Go to buy cigarettes....some people don't give a shit about anything but what they need to do.

I had a friend that would take her kids on shopping excursions for hours and then be pissed that they became fussy and unruly...the kids were toddlers and hours of shopping isn't fun for them....but to have her think of staying home...no way.

[SoCalDem]

87. Now now..doesn't everyone know by now that little dogs

are the best accessory (well next to african babies)..

being seen with a child..especially a rowdy toddler could do damage to the freewheeling jet-setter image

:sarcasm:

[Neshanic]

92. "I saw Mommy shopping from the back seat of the BMW."

Sing along gang! It's a Scottsdale classic.

[HuffleClaw]

93. sounds like a case of overreaction to me

its not like she left the kid alone, she'd asked people to watch the tot.

[Bluebear]

94. Yeah, strangers. nt

[blondeatlast]

100. Strangers working for minimum wage plus tips. I know that mall well

as I often shop there myself (I'm not in the NM league, though).

The valets get minimum wage plus tips--if they are lucky. that area is not a a hotbed of tipping nirvana by any means. I've slaved in that area myself.

Please someone convince me that Huffleclaw forgot this: :sarcasm:

Please...

[DiverDave]

97. you forgot the sarcasm thingie

or are you for real?

[Dastard Stepchild]

96. If more retail malls had babysitting services...

I wonder if people would be less likely to, you know, leave their child with the valet. Seems like a proactive way to help moms with with both their shopping and their need for temporary childcare.

[blondeatlast]

101. Think of the liability issues with this. Have you ever filled out paperwork

to put your kid in child care?

It seems the retail trade is doing quite well without this. It's a nice idea on paper, but very unlikely to happen. Even then, no way would I leave my 2 year old with a few teenagers earning minimum wage--and that's who would be running the place.

[Dastard Stepchild]

113. Yeah.... I'm not evenly remotely familiar with childcare issues...

I know that churches have babysitting services, but then, that assumes a degree of continuity that does not exist with the shopper in a shopping mall.

I realize you would not use the service, but the individual that thinks it is a good idea to leave their toddler in a car would probably do much better by the child to have that modicum of supervision offered via a babysitter. Just seems like a happy medium between the backseat of a car and shopping with the child.

But I'm not really invested in the idea. It was more of a glib comment.

[Nikia]

125. We have grocery stores with babysitting services

Festival Foods in my area of Wisconsin has a babysitting service in the store. I suppose though that a busy shopping mall could get overrun with children if such a service was provided. I think that there is supposed to be a certain adult to child ratio. If that got exceeded, they would have to turn children away.

[shanti]

145. ikea's got a great business model

with their onsite childcare.

[nam78_two]

99. DU is now neck and neck with CNN and MSNBC for "human interest" stories.nt

[blondeatlast]

105. Keep in mind this is ARIZONA--thank God it wasn't summer...

Zakrzewski-Johansson, 39, said she took longer than expected because the gift was not wrapped, she ran into a friend and she picked up eye-makeup remover, police said.

She also asked arresting officers to retrieve the present, police said.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/1214momfolo1214update.html

I used to work at this mall (Scottsdale Fashion Square--very ritzy)--it's patronized by an inordinate amount of "I'm entitled" types.

[Lurking Dem]

107. I can't believe people would defend this.

The child is TWO YEARS OLD!

You don't leave a 2 year old in a car alone. Ever.

You don't ask people whose name you don't even know to watch your child. Ever.

Did people used to leave kids in the car? Sure they did. They also let kids ride in the back of pick up trucks, not wear seat belts, and we put raw eggs in our Orange Julius.

Times are different now. We grow. We learn. We try to do things better. That's why we like Pay at the Pump gas - so we don't have to wake up our sleeping child from the car. And we don't leave him out there alone. We put guards in electrical plugs. We read food labels. We lock up poisons.

I hope this woman gets sent to some parenting classes and I hope she gets visits from CPS on a regular basis.

[blondeatlast]

108. Arizona, too--if it were a three months earlier or later, would there be

any discussion at all?

It was averaging 88 degrees here in OCTOBER, for pete's sake.

I live here, I worked at that mall--her behavior was completely neglectful (look at my link above your post).

[Lurking Dem]

112. Read the link.

She is a frickin' piece of work, that one.

[rebel with a cause]

149. Mother of the year (not)

"the dingos ate my baby" while the valets weren't watching. :banghead:

[WI_DEM]

109. some people always want to blame authority figures never the individual

and the security people are the authority figures in this case and for some twisted reason the mother is seen as the victim.

[Pithlet]

121. I know.

I'm beginning to think there's nothing too crazy that it won't be defended on internet message boards. Yikes.

[blondeatlast]

131. It isn't just DU--she has defenders on AZ Central (the Aizona Republic's site)

and all the local talk shows.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/1215sr-mom1215Z8.html

This one really got to me--yeah, sure, Child Protective Services needs MORE job security :sarcasm::
"The entire problem is CPS. CPS just wants business, business, business. 'Oh, look, another lost child! Strapped in a seatbelt mommy's car for 10 minutes! Oh no! Let's take the child and sue the mommy! Bad mommy! She's evil!' Yes, what she did was stupid, but locking her up for it isn't going to change her behavior." - Paul4896

(same poster)

"I'm not defending what she did. But do we really need to lock her up for it? If it was 115 degrees out, sure, lock her up. But it wasn't. And it was in Scottsdale. In a climate-controlled garage at a high scale, posh shopping mall. What, do you think the car is going to suddenly get pushed into Neutral and roll down the road? Or that some beggar is going to bang on the bar window, asking the toddler for change?" - Paul4896

FWIW, that garage is NOT climate controlled, just underground, and it still heats to 100 degrees in the summer.

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lurking Dem]

136. *shudder*

Unbelievable.

[Horse with no Name]

137. Oh please

Postpartum psychosis is a RECOGNIZED diagnosis with literature back to the 1800's--and usually the same result.
So you are trying to equate a perfectly sane woman who was negligent with mentally ill women who were psychotic?
I want whatever you are smoking because it sure alters reality.

[Pithlet]

140. So, then surely you support charging someone with murder

if they go into a diabetic coma while driving and kill someone. Because that makes just as much sense as charging people with murder when they have no control over their mind. Because there are people who are ignorant of mental health issues is no reason to change the law. There is a reason the insanity plea exists. Yes, there are people on a progressive board who are aware of the reasons and support that. What a shock.

[blondeatlast]

117. She needs to thank her lucky stars it was December in ARIZONA

not May, June, July, August, or September. Those who are defending her need to think about that.

We have a good samaritan law that mandates private citizens to break into a car to free a child or animal locked inside. There can be no liability whatsoever providing authorities are contacted ASAP. Every single summer, three-four children die from heat prostration from being left in a car for a few minutes and HUNDREDS of animals die every year.

There's a reason they don't sell cars with vinyl seats and no a/c here.

She out to be forever grateful that poor child is still breathing--I'm not exaggerrating in the least, either.

[alarimer]

132. Cars can get pretty hot even if it isn't summer

My guess is this was probably a covered parking lot. I wouldn't ever leave a dog in the car, much less a child.

[BlooInBloo]

126. DUers should be ok with that - they think that people are no more important than animals.

[Bluebear]

128. Say what?????????????????????????

[BlooInBloo]

129. ... as every "animal rights" thread clearly shows....

[Bluebear]

138. Oh OK glad that's "clear"

:eyes:

[lonestarnot]

133. OMG! Now there is some...Damn, for once I am speechless!

[Odin2005]

139. what a self-centered asshole.

She took her dog in but she wouldn't bring in her kid, then then she asked two gaurds to watch the kid? Idiots like her deserve to be sterilized.

[fhqwhgads]

150. you wouldn't think...

...there'd be a whole lot of disagreement on here about this.

without casting aspersions on this woman's personality, or prejudging her based on her socio-economic status...can't we all agree that you don't leave a small child unattended EVER?

what the hell planet have i landed on?

[Bluebear]

151. Oh please, read through the thread.

Some had nooooo problem leaving a child unattended in an unlocked car. :crazy:

[Nikki Stone1]

152. Depends on the age of the child/children, I think

There were 4 kids in my family and when my mom had to drop off a library book quickly and didn't want to drag all of us in (and scare the librarian), she would leave us in the car. I was the oldest (maybe 9 or 10) and looked after the others for 5 or 10 minutes until she came out. It was a safe neighborhood back then and no big deal. But there is no way my mom would have left one of the younger ones (or even both of them) out there by themselves. It all depended on one of the older ones being able to supervise.

And if you're thinking of slamming my mom, I will tell you that we didn't have much money and she couldn't afford help. She just did what she had to do while my dad worked two jobs to make sure we got fed.

In my opinion, two years old is far too young to leave anyone unattended. But had the child been 9 or 10 (and awake), I might not have the same aghast reaction that everyone else is having, except that the world is more dangerous now. Of course, with a 9 or10 year old, there wouldn't have been an issue of napping during the day.

[Bluebear]

156. 'And if you're thinking of slamming my mom'

Um, why would I? Cripes, we agree, 2 is too young.

[fhqwhgads]

153. i did read through the thread...

...and i'm convinced. leaving small children unattended was okay in the 1960s, so it must be okay now. things haven't changed much since then.

:sarcasm: