Teen Expelled From School For Turning In Found Gun

[The Straight Story]

Teen Expelled From School For Turning In Found Gun
Plainfield Student's Parents Say The Punishment Doesn't Make Sense


(CBS) PLAINFIELD, Ill. A 13-year-old Plainfield boy and his parents are stunned and outraged after the teen found a gun in school and turned it in to authorities, who then expelled him.

CBS 2's Dana Kozlov reports Ryan Morgan's parents and supporters attended the school board meeting Wednesday evening to try to fight the expulsion. They believe the punishment, and the subsequent alternative school option, are not the proper responses to a mistake made by a teenage boy.

Ryan Morgan, 13, says he pocketed a pellet gun he and a friend found in their school's bathroom to keep people safe. Morgan's mother says a short time later Morgan gave the gun to the Troy Middle School assistant principal.

"I told him maybe that wasn't the best decision, to remove that gun, but it did lead to you finding the culprit, he was arrested and to put my son in alternative school -- he has no behavior problems," Audrey Morgan, Ryan's mother, said.

The Morgans say there was no reasoning with the principal or with the school superintendent.

"He said, 'The board can give your son full two-year expulsion, I'm asking you not to go before them,'" Audrey Morgan said.

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/local_story_348001946.html

[Kagemusha]

1. Zero-tolerance for possession, right?

What a world.

[dysfunctional press]

4. he wasn't in trouble for posession of the gun...

he was in trouble for picking it up, rather than alerting the school staff to it's presence.

[zreosumgame]

11. yep he should have left it there for staff to find

in a few days when they finally clean it, meantime someone else finds it and uses it. yep zero-thought is very popular.

[dysfunctional press]

12. ummm...no-

he should have told someone in authority.

it's really not that hard to figure out...for most of us, anyway...:eyes:

[seabeyond]

14. he leaves, gun is picked up by someone.

you cant see that simple thought going thru his head?

i would think that would be almost a guaranteed thought to filter the brain. then who was irresponsible to see a gun yet lose the gun? maybe someone gets hurt then. my 11 yr old knows how to handle a gun more responsibly than i do. i dont like them. he has been taught how to handle guns for three years. i would be fearful of picking it up. he would be confident in picking it up. reality.

for you to simplify it so has me equally rolling my eyes.

[dysfunctional press]

16. he stays with the gun, or at the door of the bathroom...

and has somebody get an adult.

most 13 year-olds could figure that one out...why can't you?

[seabeyond]

19. because i understand kids at this age. because i understand perfect

they are not. because i dont think that all learning experience must come at the hands of punishment and reprimand.

[Quantess]

17. He's 13 years old! You never did anything stupid at 13?

What he did wasn't even stupid, just naive. Which is the definition of a 13 year old kid.

[dysfunctional press]

18. lots of times...

and when it resulted in punishment, i had no choice but to accept that consequence.

[ieoeja]

22. So you agree the child should be punished for this? n/t

[dysfunctional press]

31. as i have already stated in post #15-

it would depend on whether there had been prior notice to the students-

i.e. a school rule that addresses what to do if a weapon or other other dangerous item is found.

if the topic had not been covered with students, then i wouldn't have meted out punishment to the kid...but if it had been covered- he did deserve some type of 'punishment'...but NOT expulsion. perhaps detention, or a 2-day suspension(i'm just going by the types of punishment used back in "my day") or something similar.

[Quantess]

23. Do you think the kid might be lying about "finding" the gun?

That's the only rationale I see for punishing the boy so harshly. Is his behavior a threat to other public students, or not?

[dysfunctional press]

40. not at all.

but he should NOT have picked it. what if it were a real gun, and by picking it up he caused it to discharge?

[benEzra]

89. His actions led to the identification and ARREST of the culprit...

no, he wasn't to blame. He took it to an authority figure, which he apparently thought would be the right thing to do, instead of looking the other way. So he was harshly punished for trying to do the right thing. Guess he'll know better than to get involved next time, eh?

[dysfunctional press]

93. not picking it up would have resulted in the same thing...

what if it were a real gun, andin picking it up he caused it to discharge?

THAT is why he was WRONG to pick it up.

he should have gotten an adult.

[benEzra]

134. One could argue that scenario...

one could also argue the scenario that he didn't know when the person who left it would be back, whether that person had other weapons, whether the person was getting ready to use them, etc.

Yes, perhaps the kid deserved a "thanks for doing the right thing, and here's what you can do next time that might be a little better." What he did NOT deserve was to be treated like HE was the one who brought the weapon to school. He found the weapon, he brought it to an administrator, which WAS a reasonable and responsible choice even if in hindsight another course of action might have been slightly better.

"Zero tolerance" policies are often an excuse for "zero thinking" by administrators, which appears to be the case here.

[davepc]

141. its not even a real gun. YOU'LL SHOOT YOUR EYE OUT KID!!!

*sigh*

idiotic over-reaction.

edit: mis-reply, meant to be response to the OP.

[Occulus]

24. You're one of those "zero thought" people, huh

As in, "zero thought for the consequences of the rules".

Let me spell in out to you in terms a 13-year-old understands:

1. I see the gun.
2. If I tell some adult, someone else might find the gun and shoot themselves or someone else.
3. *I* will take the gun and turn it in, to keep other people safe. I don't intend to shoot it or mess with it.

You are insane if you don't think someone else could have seen him find it and go away, if someone could have found it in the interim, etc. As I said before, you have zero thought for the consequences of the rules. No, to you, it's 'his fault' he got expelled. Nevermind the very mature forethought this kid exhibited. No, punish him for doing the right thing.

:eyes:

It's people like YOU who make kids afraid to talk: they're afraid they'll be punished like this kid was. My guess is, he'll think twice from now on before alerting an Authority to anything. And that's another unintended consequence you and all the other people in favor of these zero-thought policies fail miserably to understand: these policies actually function in exactly the opposite way you intend, because you fail to consider the consequences of your precious Rules.

Kudos to this kid for doing the right thing. Shame on you for supporting zero-thought over the thoughtful kid.

[dysfunctional press]

35. wow...

what a total lunkhead.

kudos to the kid for doing the right thing?

most schools teach students that if they find a dangerous object- they are NOT TO TOUCH IT, but rather to notify the adults in charge.

what if it had been a real gun, and in picking it up, the kid caused the weapon to discharge..? (it can and does happen that way).

congratulations for zero-thought on YOUR part.

[Horse with no Name]

39. Or take it another step

Say he did leave it unattended to go get someone to pick it up.
Someone in the meantime picks it up and shoots someone else with it--accidental or not.
Then this kid has to live with a lifetime of guilt that he could have prevented it.
I support what this kid did 100%.

[dysfunctional press]

42. or another step-

it's a real gun, he picks itup, and while doing so- mishandles it and causes the gun to fire, possibly wounding himself or another student.

the kid should have stayed with the gun, and sent someone to get the primcipal...if no other students were there- he could have gone to the bathroom door, and called out for somebody to get the principal. is that really so hard to figure out?

the kid did the 100% WRONG thing.

[dansolo]

140. It isn't 100% wrong

While I agree that it was a mistake to pick the gun up, he was not wrong in his intention to ensure that it was brought to the principal. 100% wrong would have been if he took the gun and kept it.

[DireStrike]

142. No, it's very easy to figure out

When you're an adult dealing with a hypothetical situation from the comfort of your own home.

You know what I would do if this situation were to happen to me today, now? I would pick up the gun with some object so that I didn't get my fingerprints on it, pocket it, and bring it to the authorities. I disagree that any other approach would be better. Here's what would probably happen if he tried to make someone else go get a teacher:

Good samaritan kid: Hey, could you go get a teacher for me?
Second kid: Haha, what, having trouble going to the bathroom? Have an accident? Hahaha!
GSK: No, it's something else. Just get a teacher please.
SK: What? What is it?
GSK: Come on, please just go get a teacher!
SK: Oh come on, just tell me!
(Repeat until gsk is worn down by sk's curiosity)
GSK: ...Here, look.
SK: Wow, cool! Tell a teacher? Hell with that, I'm keeping it.
GSK: I'll tell.
SK: Oh, shut up you baby. *Takes gun and leaves*.

I find this scenario not only plausible and possible, but probable.

Very obviously this is not a situation with a clear-cut answer, especially not to a person without a fully developed adult brain. I am an adult, and I disagree vehemently that your answer is necessarily the correct one. How is it possible to punish someone who acted with good intentions and in good faith for not following one of several possible and similarly good solutions?

It's not. Absolute laws are stupid. We PAY people to interpret the law in criminal and civil cases, in fact there are two or three for each case. We appoint judges and vote on them to introduce common sense and judgement into cases.

But that's ok, it's more important to place unnecessary stress and a black mark on a child's record, instead of rewarding him for his foresight, than it is to ACTUALLY CONSIDER the circumstances of the case. Right?

[seabeyond]

143. excellent point. and right on. further... if the kid tells on friend, even if

not a friend, or a popular kid, he is truly and really fucked. then the kid gets kicked out of school for two years not having got the teacher, or a lot more years being a snitch.

excellent point. talk about putting a kid in a no win situation

[BushOut06]

25. Isn't that exactly what he did?

He turned it in! I'm sorry, this really is ridiculous. How do you know there was anyone else for him to send to get an adult? Seems like his thought process was "Holy shit, there's a gun, I better turn it in so that nobody else takes it!"

[dysfunctional press]

36. and what happens if-

it were a real gun, and in picking it up he caused it to discharge...?

[VTMechEngr]

139. There is only one way to make a modern firearm discharge

You pull the trigger. Sorry man, I handle firearms all the time. Its obvious you don't.

[Kagemusha]

28. You are mistaken. He picked it up AND alerted the staff

and he's in trouble because he purposefully and wantonly came into possession of a gun. The purpose matters not.

[dysfunctional press]

38. you are mistaken. he wasn't in trouble for posessing the gun.

he was in trouble for picking it up.

what would have happened if it were a real gun, and by picking it up he caused it to discharge...?

[Kagemusha]

44. Er, I was under the impression picking it up IS possessing it

taking it into your possession purposefully.

Just for the record, adults shouldn't pick up guns either unless they know the bare minimum about what the hell they're doing, IMO. Some kids do, a lot don't, and I understand the writers of these rules not wanting to make bets on which kind of kid touches a firearm, even a pellet gun (assuming you can even tell if something fires pellets from looking at it).

[dysfunctional press]

45. but he wasn't in trouble for posessing it-

he was in trouble for NOT leaving it alone and alerting the school authority.

[Kagemusha]

46. Did you read the last para of the article?

"School board officials issued a statement Wednesday night saying due to confidentiality reasons they can't discuss the specifics of this case, but that "purposeful possession of weapons is a serious offense and deserves careful consideration by the administration and the school board."

I wouldn't have opened my mouth if I hadn't seen them use those exact words.

I'll leave it at that - this isn't a subject worthy of an argument. As another poster said, schools should have clear policies on this, and not following said clear policies should be the basis of any suspension in a case like this.

[dysfunctional press]

48. i've said pretty much the same thing-

if the school has a policy regarding what to do when a student finds a dangerous object, and if the student in question has been advised of this policy- punishment is due.
but- if the topic had not been covered prior- i wouldn't have necessarily punished him.

[Kagemusha]

64. Oops, sorry, you were the poster above I meant there.

Anyway, I think that taking the dangerous object is what they meant by wantonly taking possession (i.e. doing it on purpose not by accident). But I guess we ARE saying the same things with different words. Hope the kid comes out ok.

[dysfunctional press]

69. i hope for the best for him too...

expulsion is definitely not warranted- but some type of punishment/reprimand was in order, especially if the school has a policy regarding finding dangerous objects.

[slackmaster]

124. Your query makes a good case for GUN SAFETY TRAINING in schools

Every 13-year-old should know how to safely pick up, unload, and secure the most common types of firearms.

[dysfunctional press]

127. disagree strongly.

it makes A LOT more sense to teach kids to get an adult to handle the weapon.

[slackmaster]

138. Disagree so much it's almost unbelievable

Public safety is served best if the weapon is secured at the earliest possible moment.

Not all adults are trained and qualified to secure a weapon. If the first qualified person happens to be 13, it makes more sense for the kid to secure the gun than having an adult who is not competent to do so fucking around with it.

[zreosumgame]

7. Zero-tolerance=Zero Thought

which is why Rummy Ronny liked it so much...

[wakeme2008]

2. OK maybe the boy's skin color has NOTHING to do

with their decision.. but I do not think so

[dysfunctional press]

3. the kid shouldn't have picked up the gun...

i don't think that expulsion was the right move- but i think that the kid who picked up the gun should have gotten some type of reprimand/punishment.

[seabeyond]

6. a simple, next time.... leave it be and call an adult , will suffice

the intent was good.... nothing happened.... i can see the child preferring to take with instead of leaving to find an adult to come back to it being gone. this is not an easy decision for a child wanting to do right. as adults we should be able to recognize, use it as a learning experience, and teach the child. not ALL things kids do should resort to punishment or reprimand.

[dysfunctional press]

15. it would depend on whether there had been prior notice to the students-

i.e. a school rule that addresses what to do if a weapon or other other dangerous item is found.

if the topic had not been covered with students, then i wouldn't have meted out punishment to the kid...but if it had been covered- he did deserve some type of 'punishment'...but NOT expulsion.

[seabeyond]

20. this is reasonable. this i can accept. do you know if they

addressed this with the kids? and with clarification of pellet gun vs a real gun, because kids brains will seperate the two

[ContraBass Black]

63. I can't tell whether a gun is real or not unless it has a painted tip.

[ninkasi]

30. I have two 13 year old granddaughters

I have also raised 3 children of my own, and two younger brothers. At 13, their levels of maturity and being able to arrive at correct decisions varied. Some kids at 13 might have remained with the gun, and had his friend alert the principal.

Some, however, might have reasoned that he would be rewarded with gratitude for turning in a weapon. These kids, after all, have lived more than half of their lives under a government which condones torture and invading other countries.

I think, unless there is much, much more to the story, the decision to expel the boy was incorrect. The whole episode might have been more positively resolved by lecturing to the student body that finding a weapon should result in informing authorities, rather than picking the object up and turning it in.

I have little respect for some schools who use "zero-tolerance" in order to prevent themselves from having to apply logic and common sense themselves. It's much, much easier for them than having to think.

[Kolesar]

56. thank you. That was very well said. eom

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

137. I agree with you

The stupid kid should have received a symbolic punishment that sends a message to everyone, just in case children in the school were confused as to what to do in that situation. I would have given him 2 weeks of suspension for picking up the gun in the first place. But then I would have turned around after 2 days of that suspension and exonerated the kid, to send a message that the kid DID do the right thing after all in turning in the gun. Outright expulsion for doing the wrong thing, with not a whit of reward for also doing the right thing sends the message that kids should leave a gun, even a loaded weapon right where they find it, and not get involved.

I'm tired of the nazification and growing authoritarianism of American society. They're expelling first graders for bringing butter knives to school or hugging teachers or kissing fellow first graders. There should be zero tolerance for tight-assed nazis.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Is this the same case as the other day...

where there were two sides to the story and the other side of it was that he was playing around with the gun and threatening other kids with it until an adult confiscated it?

[The Straight Story]

8. I honestly don't know

Good question though.

[longship]

9. Stupid idiots.

Punishment for responsible behavior.

Sue the asshats.

[ninkasi]

10. That's stupid

The school board must be on crack. They feel that it would have been better to leave the weapon? Whoever hid it may have retrieved it in the time it took for the school's authorities to dither about what to do. I guess common sense is against school policy, too.

Maybe this case will garner enough publicity to change the school board's minds.

[ComerPerro]

13. teaches the kid a vaulable life lesson

doing the right thing will almost always bite you in the ass.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. Seriously.

Good lesson, especially if he ever works for the Federal Government. They do so love a whistleblower.

[purji]

26. No good deed goes unpunished. n/t

[renate]

27. so the assistant principal wouldn't have known about it...

... if the kid hadn't given the gun to him?

Sheesh!

I'm glad he has his parents' support.

[Odin2005]

29. Zero Tolerance = Infinite Stupidity

:banghead:

[Sinistrous]

34. Zero Tolerance just keeps school authorities from having to think.

Sinistrous

[ieoeja]

32. This is why I did not report my grandmother's house on fire.

I found the water on and the spring dry. Most likely the cows broke the wire securing the pump handle. They did this on more than one occasion. At any rate I was not the one to last water the cattle, so it sure as heck wasn't my fault.

Nevertheless, my father punished me for the burned out pump motor because I had the misfortune of finding it.

A few days later I saw my grandmother's burning trash catch a pile of leaves against the wall of her house on fire. I started to run for help, but saw my dad heading towards the same direction. I calculated the extra 30 seconds or so it would take him to find the fire would not do any damage, so said nothing to him as I walked past him.

When questioned later on how I could have walked by and not seen the fire, I told him I had and offered the above explanation. While my dad could have his temporary moments (the original punishment), he was usually quite reasonable. There was no punishment for the fire.

But he did enjoy telling the story about how his own foolishness caused his son to almost let his mother's house burn down!


Bottom line: I bet you won't see this kid reporting anything to the authorities in the near future.


Heck, I have an even more recent and worse similar story. My brother was arrested the Tuesday before Thanksgiving for manufacturing meth. He found a lab on the farm and called the cops. The cops then used the labs they found on my brother's farm as evidence for charging my brother!

This story is more complicated, however. To begin with my brother is married and got a blowjob on the side. And we know how Republicans feel about that.

[JacksonWest]

33. As a policy point, he should be punished.

If it was a real gun, and he mishandled it, he could have shot himself or anyone else. However, given the facts, an expulsion is the wrong way to go. But, absolutely, the kids should not handle a found gun.

The real issue here is whether or not this kid was aware of any policy. Or if he should be. I don't recall my high school having a policy on what to do if you found drugs or guns in the hall or bathroom. And we did have drugs and guns(more of the former).

I finished HS in 1995. SO times have changed. Just curious if anyone here is in HS or has a child in HS and if this is a policy in the post columbine era.

[Kolesar]

51. Let's hang Billy Bud from the yardarm one more time--rules are rules, after all

And that was such a great scene!

[JacksonWest]

81. Wow, an obscure melville reference. And it's not even three in the afternoon.

Didn't Billy kill a man? Because he was frustrated and upset?

[Kolesar]

87. Popped Claggert in the temple and killed him without intending to

Captain Veer had to hang him as a matter of principle. Peter Ustinov was an excellent Captain Veer.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=melville++billy+budd+Killed

[JacksonWest]

102. Right.

That takes me back. Billy was Christ like in the end..and the whole issue was Veer had ordered the jury to follow the letter of the law-which didn't make a whole lot of sense.

Good compaison. Perhaps I'll use an Aldous Huxley reference in a future comment to you.

[seabeyond]

52. without policy... i would not handle a gun, would be afraid. BUT

my oldest son, i can see him feeling it more safe to take a gun to an adult than to leave it behind for another less experienced kid to find it. he has been around guns and taught gun safety and has confidence for years in the handling of gun. so it even depends on the particular child. my youngest... wouldnt touch the gun. as uncomfotable as an adult may be with the idea of a kid handling a gun, i personally would prefer son to handle it than myself cause even as an adult, i dont like them, i dont touch them and he probably would be the better person.

[pnb]

37. What a load of horseshit

Zero tolerance? Now it results in punishing kids for doing the right thing.

No wonder this country is going to hell.

[MadHound]

41. No good deed goes unpunished

Poor kid, he did nothing wrong, in fact he was trying to do the right thing and now is getting the shaft. A lot of kids in rural and semi-rural Midwest know how to safely handle guns at that age. I was typical, I got my first gun and safety lessons when I was ten. This kid decided to remove a threat and turn it in to the proper authorities, and now these self same authorities are going to punish him for it. Frankly, if I were the parents I would sue the district for such a stupid policy, to the tune of a private school tuition.

Sorry, but this is neither wrong nor naive on the part of this kid, he was taking the right and responsible action. No, the stupid and wrong action is being taken by the school district by expelling and punishing a decent, responsible student.

[hvn_nbr_2]

43. The lesson learned: Adults are idiots. nt

[Rex]

47. Stupid stupid stupid.

He turned in the gun, and then the 'adults' went apeshit. I smell a lawsuit a mile away.

[dysfunctional press]

49. a lawsuit for what...?

what if it had been a real gun, and when he picked it up it had discharged?

THAT'S why kids are taught NOT to touch a found gun.

[jobycom]

53. And what if he'd left it there to go get an adult

and before he got back someone picked it up and shot someone with it?

So, maybe the kid made a mistake picking up the gun. Explusion for that? That's as wrong as the world can get.

[dysfunctional press]

57. he stays with the gun and sends a friend for help.

if nobody else is there, he goes to the bathroom door and calls out for help.

is it REALLY that hard to understand?

what if it's a real gun, and in picking it up he causes it to disgcharge?

there ids absolutely NO DEFENSE for the kid picking up the gun in that situation.

however- i don't think that he should have been expelled.

[jobycom]

61. We're basically in agreement, then

A thirteen year old kid makes a decision you'd expect a thirteen year old kid to make. He gets wrongly expelled for it, rather than being educated on what he should have done.

Except that I think he should sue. There is no cause for expulsion. That's just wrong, and the school district needs to pay for the harm they have done to this kid and his family.

[Rex]

54. What if won't go over in a courtroom.

It was a BB gun and was handled accordingly IMO. My mom is on the local school board and I've taught at the local high school, they've been sued over far less things than what happen to this young man.

[dysfunctional press]

60. did he know it was a pellet gun before he handled it?

kids shouldn't be picking up found guns. period.

[Rex]

65. There was an threat to the school, he picked up the threat and

gave it to the proper authorities. I agree, kids should not pick up a weapon found in a bathroom or wherever, but he did the right thing IMO. To leave it there is negligent and 'what if' his friend decided to pick it up while he went to get help - and shot himself.

IMO the kid did the right thing and the LAST thing they needed to do is expel him. I'm sure the admin is just following the law. I'm not hoping for a lawsuit - far from it, they should just let the kid back into school. I'm just saying from experience that this will get nasty and there is no need for it to.

[dysfunctional press]

70. i don't think he should be expelled...

but i also don't think that he did the right thing by picking up the gun.

[Rex]

72. Then we disagree.

I will say that I think most kids can tell the difference between a BB gun and a high caliber weapon. If it had been an assault rifle, then what? Leave it there and hope your friend doesn't pick it up and do something stupid?

The young man was put in a very difficult situation. Thank goodness no one was hurt.

[dysfunctional press]

78. if he had a friend with him who he feared for if he left him with the gun...

then he sends the friend to get the principal, and stays with the gun.

for him to pick up the gun is 110% indefensible.

[Rex]

88. LOL @ 110%

You're wrong and I'm right, 110% of the time! So there! :P

[dysfunctional press]

75. so...if the "threat to the school" were a ticking time bomb-

should the kid pick it up and take it to the principal's office as well?

[seabeyond]

76. it has simply got to be all or nothing with you huh?

i am not that kind of thinker. i dont much value thaqt thinking either. i find it lazy

[Rex]

77. No

Because a ticking time bomb and a handgun are to different situations. And you know this.

[dysfunctional press]

79. not really.

a kid who doesn't know how to handle a handgun could easily discharge the weapon in the act of picking it up.

[Rex]

82. I agree, it was a very dangerous situation, quite different then a bomb.

So let us say he left the gun on the ground, then what? Trust his friend not to pick it up (possibly like you said, discharging the weapon) or take it out in the hall?

It was a command decision that a teen had to make and he did. Right or wrong.

[dysfunctional press]

85. why do you keep mentioning a friend picking it up...?

if he's with a friend in that situation, he stays with the gun, and sends the friend to get the principal...if he's alone in the bathroom, he goes to the door and calls out for help, while keeping other students from entering.

not really all that difficult to figure out.

[Rex]

86. If only it worked that way.

What if the other kid said no? What if he didn't want to turn it in. You keep arguing a lost point. I disagree with you, but go ahead and keep arguing if it makes you feel better. :hi:

[dysfunctional press]

91. i'm sorry- but the kid picking up the gun is the lost point.

his doing so is completely indefensible.

pity people like you can't understand that...i suppose you probably have a lot of trouble seeing the forest for the trees as well.

:hi: backatcha'

[Rex]

95. Haha! Very nice.

Yes I bump into those trees quite a bit. Seems like the majority of people on this thread do. Must be nice to be right (110%) all the time. :hi:

[dysfunctional press]

101. i never said i was right all the time.

but in this case, i definitely am.

[Rex]

104. Well okay, as long as you know you're right.

But you're wrong.

[dysfunctional press]

if i'm wrong...

then why did the kid get in trouble?

[Rex]

107. Because he didn't follow school procedure.

People do the right thing and get in trouble all the time.

[dysfunctional press]

110. and the procedure is there to protect the kids.

what if it were a real gun and in picking it up he caused it to discharge and shoot himself or another student...?

would you then be saying that it was a tragic thing, but that he was right in picking it up in the first place?

THAT'S why schools have rules that tell students not to TOUCH a dangerous object if they find it...

i mean really- how difficult is that to understand?

[Rex]

112. If if if

I guess you will never get it.

[dysfunctional press]

115. apparently YOU'RE the one that doesn't "get it"...

if if if is why the rules are there in the first place.

[Rex]

120. No you are saying if if if.

It was a BB gun and he did the right thing.

[dysfunctional press]

123. it turned out to be a pellet gun...

and he did the WRONG thing.
hence the punishment.
albeit an overly severe punishment IMO.

[seabeyond]

96. pity people like you can't understand that.... funny you.

you realize you are the ONLY one supporting your clearly right answer, while everyone EVERYONE else is wrong and cant see the forest for the trees. i think this is kncredibly ironic the words you chose. seems self desciptive. universe works that way

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

105. yes you are. what is this with the smart ass remarks about me being on my period

is this any of your business. is this any way to talk to aother person. do you thik you are being cute. this just further shows what an ass you are. and lack of maturity.

[dysfunctional press]

106. did you read post #33 by jacksonwest...?

oops...:hi:

[seabeyond]

108. 1 kinda sorta your way with condition it was a known policy.

ya... there is your reinforcement. no comment on your assine comments about me being on period? dont you think that was pretty stupid and immature way of handling a conversation.

[Rex]

111. Yes that was stupid.

I would say you are taking it quite well. I know a few ladies who would be out for his skin. Just for starters.

[seabeyond]

114. universe rocks. another example of the arrogant getting knocked upside the head

this person insists on the right decision from a child with no consideration for why the child did what they did, or could have seen it as a good decision. that there is no grace for mistake, error or stupid. yet.... as an adult, i see this very same person making their own poor, stupid choice..... and, not being able to own it.

[Rex]

118. The boy saw the threat and removed it from the situation.

A BB gun! We are all flawed creatures; I'm just happy nobody was hurt.

[dysfunctional press]

122. it wasn't his place to do so.

and it's a good time to teach him that sometimes you can be wrong, even if you think you're doing the right thing, and have good intentions.

[dysfunctional press]

113. policy or not-

kids should be taught NOT to handle a found weapon- and YES there ARE pellet guns that look EXTREMELY real.

what if it were a real gun, and in picking it up it were to discharge and injure the kid or another one- would you still be saying that picking up the gun was the correct thing?

[Rex]

116. So you can use the 'if' rule, but I can't.

Hmm...

[dysfunctional press]

117. self delete

[dysfunctional press]

119. and what is your "if"...

that makes it okay for a kid to grab a gun he finds lying on the ground?

[Rex]

121. To make sure no one else does; with the possibility of hurting themselves.

Duh.

[dysfunctional press]

125. alerting an adult gets the SAME result.

and with NO punishment...:hi:

[Rex]

126. And also draws unwanted attention from other kids.

With who knows what kind of results. :hi:

[dysfunctional press]

128. most likely expulsion.

if they're stupid enough to handle a found weapon.

[Rex]

129. Or remove it as a threat to others.

nt

[dysfunctional press]

130. which is absolutely NOT their responsibilty.

which is what most responsible schools teach the students.

[Rex]

131. They had to make a decision, responsible or not and they made

the right one and got in trouble for it. Oh well.

[dysfunctional press]

132. they?

i was referring to the one student who made the wrong decision, and against the rules picked up a loose gun, thereby rightfully incurring punishment for his incorrect choice.

imo however, the punishment was too severe.

[Rex]

135. The teen and his friend that walked into the bathroom.

'Picked up a loose gun'. :rofl:

[seabeyond]

66. my son knows the difference between a real gun and a pellet

my son has been taught safety and handling of a weapon. he is confident and knowledge on guns. as uncomfortable that may make adults, it is a reality many children have been taught and know how to handle guns in a responsible manner, as much so as adults and more so than an adult like myself who refuses all contact with guns.

[dysfunctional press]

71. you can't always tell just by casually looking at it.

i've had pellet pistols that looked extremely real.

[seabeyond]

74. we have them too. pellet and real. and yes you can tell the difference

maybe someone like me would have a harder time, but i can even tell. someone like my son or husband who are experienced can easily tell.

[dysfunctional press]

80. maybe with the ones you have...

but believe me, there are plenty of pellet guns that look plenty real, and without handling them it can be difficult to tell the difference.

[seabeyond]

90. well... reason goes beyond. you refuse to listen to MANY adults

that are just as capable of you at intepreting and coming to conclusions in this scenerio, yet..... you hold your ground formally that your perspective is the ONLY one and EVERYONE else cant see the clearly obvious way this should have been handled by a child. giving no grace

now we are even gonna argue if one can tell a difference between a pellet and a real gun. it simply MUST be that i have the phoney looking ones were as you have access to the ones that look just like guns.

i will be comforted in my knowing that that strong majority (all but one person on this thread) feels this was an absurd position for the school to take.

[Rex]

92. Well his name IS questionall.

:evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

98. all INCLUDES self, wink n/t

[Rex]

100. LOL

Nice one! :winkemo:

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

99. i beg your pardon? n/t

[Swamp Rat]

144. Maybe you should be expelled from DU for making such offensive, sexist remarks.

You are presumably an adult and know DU policy, shouldn't you receive due punishment for your mistakes?

[Kolesar]

68. "You'll shoot your eye out kid"

It's obvious. We have to make BB guns illegal because they can lead to situations like this. As for real guns--well that's too controversial to discuss here. :sarcasm:

I think you have it right, btw, I am just kind of wired today.

[Kolesar]

55. I know--guns should have labels that say "HEY KID, DON'T PICK ME UP, CALL AN ADULT"

Manufacturers could put a cute, little animated dog-guy on it to get their attention. McScoot, the gun-wise schnauzer says "kids, get away from this here gun". "Guns are bad". "Call your mommy and every thing will be okay!" :think:

[dysfunctional press]

58. that's a pretty stupid idea.

why don't schools just have rules about what students should do when they find a dangerous object? oh wait... a lot of them already do!

[Kolesar]

59. Of course it's stupid

I was being sarcastic

[dysfunctional press]

62. and making a pretty stupid point...

what was your point, anyway?

[Kolesar]

73. I suppose someone at the school could maintain that the boy was trained in BB gun procedure

...and that he made a mistake and should be expelled for two years. But consider the scale of the problem. It was a BB gun/pellet gun. He turned it in to responsible authority and nobody was hurt. Maybe the boy did not remember policy. That is going to happen occasionally. Can society be expected to handle every permutation of fate and not have a few foul ups once in a while? I mean, the sun is still going to come up tomorrow morning. This didn't cause the stock market to crash and it wasn't like somebody shot the Archduke Fernidad!

edit--I forgot to add, this poster put it graciously: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2917972&mesg_id=2918424

[dysfunctional press]

84. like i've already said- i don't think that he should have been expelled...

but he was DEFINITELY WRONG to pick up the gun. and IF the school has a policy regarding the finding of dangerous objects by students, and IF the student violated such policy- he should be punished accordingly.

[Kolesar]

94. Send him to alternative school with all the toughs

Or if his parents get pushy and take it to the board, they threaten to retaliate with a two year expulsion because he/they would make the principle lose face. Maybe you know better than I do. One reason I did not want to be a parent was that I did not want to deal with this stuff. That, and overpopulation.

[jobycom]

50. If there's a fund to pay for this kid's private schooling, I'd like to invest.

More kids like this might just be the antidote to the idiots running his school district.

[Norquist Nemesis]

109. The district has to pay for his education

From what I'm hearing on the local news here (just to the north of Plainfield), he will be homeschooled and the District is paying for it. Don't have the details if that was a result of negotiations/settlement of some sort or not. It's quite possible the parents threatened to sue...that's often enough to get a SB motivated to come to some sort of 'mutual agreement'.

[BuyingThyme]

67. Being that the kid is much smarter than the people running the school,

why don't they keep the kid and fire the people running the school?

BTW: I'm betting it's also against the rules, if not illegal, for the people running the school to engage in "purposeful possession of weapons" while on the job. String 'em up!

[Rosemary2205]

83. It's time that dumb kid learns a hard lesson

no good deed goes unpunished.

[warrens]

133. Es stupido

He should have picked it up so some nimrod didn't grab it before authorities could get there. This is a HORRIBLE decision.

[aikoaiko]

136. The child will take solice in knowing he's smarter than the school admins.

Home school is looking better and better for my little boy.

[Mugu]

145. It would be interesting to know exactly what the school rules say.

I'll bet that the principle isn't allowed to possess a weapon on school property either. Once the kid gave the gun to the principle, the principle was in possession of a weapon on school property. If the student isn't allowed to argue intent why should the principle be held to a lesser standard?

Regards, Mugu