Male DUers, are you circumcised? How do you feel about it?

[skipos]

Inspired by this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2651336&mesg_id=2651336

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. Great subject line - ""How do you feel about it?"

Is it necessary to have an instruction booklet?

[cwydro]

2. Gotta ask

what is it with the circumcision threads all of a sudden?

[nam78_two]

5. I was wondering too.nt

[Captain Hilts]

9. NIH and WHO just released studies showing lower HIV infection rates among...

circumcised fellas. They don't have as many nooks and crannies to hold viruses.

[cwydro]

12. Yeah, but wasn't that study in Africa?

In areas where clean water and hygiene are perhaps the bigger issue? I don't think Europeans circumcise at birth..perhaps they should do a study there...:shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. They Have Done Studies Here And Found Basically The Same Thing...

eom

[Bucky]

70. You don't think poverty & education are variables in that?

It's not "more educated" to be circumcised, but more educated men are more likely to be missing the ol' calmari. Unless the study has some causality a little more scientific sounding than "viruses hiding in the nooks and crannies of the wee-wee" I'd suggest you look at behavioral factors more than architectural ones.

[walldude]

86. I'll third this.. and ask why?

What's the point of the thread?

[TahitiNut]

17. It looks like an outbreak (so to speak) of penis envy.

:shrug: Perhaps the Lorena Bobbitt School of Medicine is having a holiday break? :evilgrin:

[SammyWinstonJack]

31. My sons were circumcised. I didn't know it was a bad? thing too do.

I didn't know that I really had a choice. I thought it was normal. My sons are 29 and 34. :shrug: And they have never chastised me about it, either. :shrug:

[HereSince1628]

3. I suffered genital mutilation to meet the cultural expectation of my parents

who decided from their position of power to impose this on an innocent neonate.

I didn't really know how useless it was until I was an adult.

Now I'm being told it helps prevent HIV infection. Another example of the greatness of the greatest generation I suppose.

[endarkenment]

8. It is a stupid way to prevent HIV infection.

50% effective vs 90-100% effective. Surgery vs Condoms. You still think this is a good idea?

Oh and the condom studies were highly specific (infected/non-infected partners over time. 100% effective with consistent use, 90% effective with inconsistent use.)

[HereSince1628]

15. Actually, I've no opinion on its value to HIV prophylaxis

I just hold the opinion that it's been a cultural imposition so fully integrated into US culture that it generated faux medical treatises on its value in the past.

[bullwinkle428]

38. EXACTLY! All this study provides is a ridiculously false sense of security

for those unwilling to use condoms...it seems like a pathetic scare tactic designed to be used on anti-circumcision advocates.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

82. I Was Thinking About This Debate About Condom Compliance.

We know from studies that many young gay men are rejecting condoms because they are laboring under the erroneous "assumption" that there is a cure for AIDS or that having sex without them is thrilling or liberating. There's a whole genre in gay porn called "barebacking".


Then I was working out at Ballys... There's signs "everywhere" carry a towel. There were about twenty people working out.

Do you know how many have towels?


And if circumcisions reduces sensation a piece of latex surely does...

[Zookeeper]

43. Why not use both?

And for men who may not always have access to condoms, circumcision would be better than nothing.

[Kutjara]

4. Growing up in the UK, we couched the debate in...

...suitably patriotic terms. You were either a 'cavalier' or a 'roundhead.'

[Posteritatis]

That's simultaneously horrible and fantastic (n/t)

[muriel_volestrangler]

14. The civil war reference seems quite appropriate for DU

It's many years since I heard those terms. :rofl:

[UnrepentantUnitarian]

6. Thanks for asking!

Nobody has ever cared enough to ask me that before.

[endarkenment]

7. Need another choice:

'wish I was consulted, not that big a deal'.

[ContraBass Black]

10. I love myself the way I am,

And haven't been any other way to compare.

[Ian David]

11. Aside from costing me a part in Puppetry of The Penis, it works for me! n/t

[JVS]

13. I do wonder what it would be like to be "The Hooded Warrior"

[Donnachaidh]

16. Gotta ask a really stupid question --

Isn't circumcision a really drastic solution -- when the real problem is HYGIENE?

Case in point -- we decided not to circumcise our son because of a bleeding disorder. And I've gotta say, we've had MORE problems with medical people losing their mind over the fact that he wasn't cut. But we also have made it very clear to him that because he is whole he needs to be really careful to keep himself and that area clean.

[ChaoticSilly]

24. Sometimes there are other legitimate reasons

I was circumcised as a toddler because the foreskin was growing together. I don't remember much of it at all except that it was painful for a few days afterwards & I think it got me an extra serving of jello. I don't think this is very common, but it does happen occasionally (the circumcision part, not the jello part).

[Touchdown]

45. It's supposed to be fused at that age.

The foreskin doesn't separate until 8+years old. Some scalpels have to dig into the penis to separate it when infant circs are done. Most US Drs. even 25 years ago didn't know this.

[ChaoticSilly]

46. Actually I didn't know that

but when I say growing closed I mean growing completely closed making it impossible to pee.

[QuestionAll...]

34. like labias and all those folds and things to keep clean?

just like men, they just don't like to 'clean up'. ;) It's like doing the dishes or something.

[TahitiNut]

35. Labia reduction surgery is somewhat common. Do you ascribe it to sloth, too?

:eyes:

http://www.wellnesskliniek.com/E_labia.htm
http://www.labiaplastysurgeon.com/
http://www.labiadoctor.com/
http://www.poustiplasticsurgery.com/Procedures/Procedure_LabialReduction.htm

[QuestionAll...]

37. I'm not sure what your eyeroll is about...

maybe labia reduction is done, (what a stupid idea right behind butt implants and beast augmentation) but on the same scale? :rofl:

[Donnachaidh]

67. You may be on to something -- however

We have a BIL who was also not cut, and he wouldn up getting an extremely NASTY infection, mainly because he wasn't one to *clean up*. It was so bad, in fact, he wound up having to get circumcised at 60 years old! Wasn't happy about it, obviously.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. Answers

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/13/health/13cnd-hiv.html?ei=5065&en=8833323645b51227&ex=1166677200&adxnnl=1&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1166104812-zje0IoqFJgl9L/s+wKmzLA




http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/07/06/MNGANDJFVK1.DTL&type=printableL




Preventing HIV is a bit more serious than preventing smegma...

[gollygee]

18. What I think is funny

is that you specified this thread was only for how male DU'ers feel about being circumcised.

I suppose it's possible that there are circumcised women on DU but I think the term "female genital mutilation" is probably more accurate in that case.

Anyway, I'd guess most men are happy with how they are unless 1. they are circ'd and it was poorly done, causing problems; or 2. they aren't circ'd and they've dated a complete bitch who refused to perform some sexual act on them or something because she had issues.

[Zookeeper]

28. What if the "complete bitch" just found it....

unappealing? She should just get over herself, or is she allowed to have her preferences?

I've heard so many men, even on DU, complain about repulsive "fat chicks." I guess they are all pr**cks with issues.

[question everything]

30. LOL. This was an episode in "Sex and the City"

the guy did go ahead and got it cut and then did not want to stay with that woman.. he was ready to go out to the world and get as many women as he could.

[Zookeeper]

33. Oh.

Thanks for explaining.

:blush:

[Zookeeper]

42. I think I misunderstood you...

as I thought you were suggesting that the poster I responded to was making a "Sex and the City" joke.

I don't think she was, on second thought.

Circumcision must rank in the top 5 most volatile subjects on DU. Even scientific evidence of benefits is greeted with great hostility.

[question everything]

73. No, you did not

You, and the poster, were talking about uncircumcised penis being repulsive for their partners and this is exactly what the story in "Sex and the City" was. The women did talk about how "unappetizing" an uncircumcised penis is, even compared it to something - do not recall to what. So the guy did go ahead and had the operation and felt liberated.

[gollygee]

52. Well I do think men who complain about "repulsive fat chicks"

are pricks with issues, but that's another issue.

IMO, if someone gets to a level of intimacy with someone where that much clothing is removed, then the person should not be complaining about details like circumcision, or whether a woman waxes or not, etc. And yes, I think whether a man is circumcised or not is a detail.

[Zookeeper]

79. Yeah, that wasn't a good analogy...

at least as far as the wording. I hastily assumed you were a male when I responded, because of your "complete bitch with issues" comment.

I think that men who automatically reject large women are shallow. However, the general consensus is that men have the right to their preferences in that regard. Women also have a right to their preferences, whatever they are. Unfortunately, whether or not a potential lover is circumcised is not the sort of thing that is revealed until the relationship is close enough to make it appropriate to ask.

Some women don't view it as a detail if it turns them off, just like some men don't view weight, breast size or any number of superficial things as a "detail."

[gollygee]

83. It's fine to have a preference

what I meant is that men who are unhappy with themselves probably had someone make a nasty comment. Liking thin women is fine. Calling women "repulsive fat chicks" is not. Liking circumcised penises is fine. Making fun of some guy because he isn't circumcised is not.

It's fine to not find someone attractive for whatever reason, but it isn't ok to be rude and potentially make someone dislike something about himself or herself.

Sorry if I didn't explain that well.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

80. I Thought We Were The Party Of Personal Choice

Let me get this straight.

We all find certain women appealing. I like petite women. I know men who like women with "back". Am I to criticize their choice or are they to criticize mine.

[gollygee]

84. See my answer to above post

[DemocratSinceBirth]

87. I Find Certain "Things" Appealing And "Unappealing"

But I wouldn't intentionally disrespect someone...


The pro and anti circ folks have done a nice job of calling each other's genitalia ugly...

[gollygee]

89. Yes

and I think it would be rude to get to a point of intimacy where you've got that many clothes off and THEN say, "Uh, you're circumcised? Sorry, I'm not interested after all." Or, "You aren't circumcised? Ewwww." OR whatever. Just like it would be rude to get a woman naked and say, "You don't wax? Ewww I'm not interested after all." But it's fine to prefer women to wax.

[mentalsolstice]

19. I'm glad he comes to the dinner table with his cap off

I'm answering this for my husband who is a liberal Dem, but not a member of DU. I asked him what he thought of his circumcision, and he said he knows no other way...it's just like having 8 fingers and 2 thumbs (his words). Myself, I've never had experience with an uncut man, but I'm just fine with the uncapped, one-eyed monster I've come to know and love.

[JeffR]

20. Ah, cut it out

sorry...

[ComerPerro]

22. bwahahaha

[ComerPerro]

21. you missed the standard choice: "not sure / undecided"

as in, "how can i tell?"


LMAO

[ComerPerro]

23. any tips for those concerned about their circumcision?

sorry, can't help myself

[Warren DeMontague]

44. Nothing off the top of the old head

as it were. :hi:

[elocs]

25. 85% of the world's male population is not circumcised. That's a pretty huge number.

[NV1962]

26. I think circumcision is stupid butchery

I'm quite happy with my foreskin, thankyouverymuch. There are some other bits of our body that we can also do away with, even coming up with rational sounding reasons to do so.

Yet the religious background of circumcision makes me even more opposed to it.

Having said that: the responsibility to take good care of our body -- and that of our partners -- goes hand in hand with the sovereignty of (and over) our body. It's beyond me how people would "defend" circumcision based on lack of hygiene. That's, as far as I'm concerned, indirectly justifying atrocious parenting skills.

Educate the little guys to take care of their little guy, and we all will be better off.

Cut off your ears why don't you...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. Why Couldn't I Conclude

"Having said that: the responsibility to take good care of our body -- and that of our partners -- goes hand in hand with the sovereignty of (and over) our body. It's beyond me how people would "defend" circumcision based on lack of hygiene. That's, as far as I'm concerned, indirectly justifying atrocious parenting skills."


Could you please use logic to me to tell me why I can't infer from that statement that Africa's AIDS epidemic is a function of "atrocious parenting skills"?

[depakid]

78. The studies on point don't talk about hygeine

They talk about DRASTIC reductions in the rate of HIV and STD transmission- in some cases almost to the level of vaccine efficacy. It doesn't happen very often in medicine when studies have to be halted because it's no longer ethical NOT to treat the control groups. This however, is one of those cases and has the potential to save millions of lives.

[SmellsLikeDeanSpirit]

27. Glad I am.

[Generic Brad]

29. How do I feel about it?

Mostly with my right hand, if you must know.

[Ouabache]

32. wow there sure are a lot of people getting a little snippy re this

nt

[njdemocrat106]

36. I guess I'm kind of happy about it

I was cut when I was a few days old, so I don't remember it. Besides, it sounds like it prevents it from getting "nasty dirty" (best way I could describe it).

[Sparkle]

39. I have no use for foreskin.

:)

[ecstatic]

40. Frankly, you should feel grateful!

That it was done when you were a baby and not a grown adult. Plus, you probably won't have to deal with as many weird reactions when you whip it out. :rofl:

[QuestionAll...]

41. a bit of history on circum...

Magellan circumcised the world in his 40-foot clipper.


and more ideas of the same here:
http://www.leo.org/information/freizeit/fun/history.html

[chemenger]

47. Circumcision makes it look bigger

From the South park episode where Ike gets a circumcision. According to Mrs. Broflovski getting a circumcision makes it look bigger. So then they all wanted one.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

48. Aw jeez!..........

[Zookeeper]

75. ....

:spray:

No kidding. I saw the NY Times article two days ago and meant to post it myself just to watch the fireworks.

[HughBeaumont]

49. I am, and I'm glad.

Root-looking weiners creep me the hell out.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. That Makes You As "Bad" As The Anti Circumcision Folks

It's a personal parental decision and we should respect that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. I Don't Understand The "Loss Of Sensation" Argument

Let me preface my remarks by saying if you are not in a monogamous relationship and and are unsure of the STD status of your partner you should always wear a condom...

That being said, the anti-circumcision proponents say that circumcision reduces sensation and then advocate the use of condoms as if condoms don't reduce sensation....


Despite education condom compliance is not a panacea. Lots of "educated" people decline to wear one despite being informed of the benefits...


I'm pro-choice... I think parents have the right to make a decision in favor of circumcision or against after reading the literature and consulting with their physicians and conscience...

[rainy]

56. I'm not a male but have slept with two un-circumcised men in my

life, married one, and find the sex much better as the extra skin allows for freer movement.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

57. I Have Slept With Over Two Dozen Women And None Had Complaints

In fact a couple even said they saw God...

LOL...


Seriously, sex is about a lot more than coitus...

[rainy]

58. you are right but I did notice a difference.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. I'm Just Kidding....

It's a personal parental choice...

What irks me is that the debate here has been politicized...


Read this thread . You have opponents and proponents of the procedure each saying the other has "ugly" genitalia...

That's repugnant...

There are good arguments on both sides...

[rainy]

61. so true!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. I'm Trying Not To Post In It Any More

This debate is highly politicized and not just on this board.


I called out the "pro-circ" guy in a nice way for suggesting those that are uncircumcised have ugly genitalia.

But it irks me just as much to have others suggest male circumcision is akin to female circumcision and that circumcised men are somehow mutants.


It's a personal parental choice that should be made after the parents consult with their physician and conscience.


I assure you and am sure the literature in the field would bear me out that circumcision is at the bottom of male sexual problems.

Everybody else can carry on without me...

PEACE

[MrsT]

65. I found the opposite to be the case

but everyone probably has different opinions about what is better.

[BoneDaddy]

59. I am circumcised

but didn't have my sons circumcised.

[rainy]

62. I seem to lean in that direction. I'm just a naturalist. Don't fuck with

nature. I eat mostly raw food, no meat, and grow some of my own veggies. I think nature is brilliant and needs no improvements.

[BoneDaddy]

64. Agreed

all of this talk of preventing HIV as a main reason to do it is certainly concerning, but I will teach my boys hygiene, birth control and tell them they are at greater risk for it due to being uncircumcised. Whether they listen is up to them.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

66. Thank God My Parents Had Me Circumcised. Both My Sons Are As Well And I Woulda Had It No Other Way.

[Efilroft Sul]

68. I feel great, especially since my cut inspired Darth Vader's helmet.

[Renew Deal]

69. Circumcised vs. Uncircumcised. I have pictures

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

71. Hell, I didn't even know I was circumcised until I was 17.

I had no idea what the doc was talking about at the Marine Crotch physical when he told us "To peel 'em back".

I guess I don't have a foreskin in this "controversy". It gets a big shrug from me.

[GoneOffShore]

72. In light of the new study

very glad that I am. Even though my lifestyle isn't such that it makes a difference.

[election_2004]

74. I'm circumcised, and quite happy with it

I'm glad my parents made the decision for me when I was born.

I honestly wouldn't want to have to endure the recovery process of a circumcision as an adult. I wouldn't wish that on ANYONE.

The reasons I like it: I love being able to easily soap up my penis with ease and convenience. I like having a "mushroom" to play with.

That being said, I've grown to appreciate both cut and uncut penises in other men, and I'd never make fun of another guy just because his uncircumcised schlong looks different from my own circumcised schlong.

Young boys need to be encouraged to support one another as friends and brothers, despite the aesthetic differences in their genitalia. That means teaching them not to tease other boys just because theirs is "different" from your own.

SAUSAGES UNITE!!!

[sakabatou]

76. Being that I was 8 days old, how could I object?

[ulysses]

77. yes: the only time I think about it

is when it comes up on DU.

[Akoto]

81. Uncircumcised, and ...

As to how I feel about it, well, I feel as though I'm uncircumcised. :P

Never been anything special to me. Some curiosity from male friends, but that's about it.

Of course, some of the posts here at DU make me feel as though I'm the evil trouser monster. Ooga booga.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

85. That's Messed Up...

To make fun of somebody's Johnson....


But it goes both ways in this and other threads...

[Akoto]

90. Well ...

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never made fun of somebody's privates. :)

Some posters just seem to imply that, by not having that part of myself chopped off, I'm careless and irresponsible. It's quite the opposite. By practicing good hygiene, and by having half a brain when it comes to sexual practices, I've had very few (zero, actually) problems.

[election_2004]

93. No one has the right to judge you for it

One of the biggest things we need to teach young boys (to combat peer-to-peer bullying) is not to be negative about another male's penis, just because there are aesthetic differences.

However, as a circumcised male, I am often made to feel as though I'm "unnatural" by the shrill anti-circumcision activists who want to make it illegal.

[HuffleClaw]

88. kind of like asking a virgin about how they feel about sex if you ask me

unless of course one was circumsized as an adult you can't really compare the two from experience.

[ronnykmarshall]

91. I'm cut and it's no skin of my .....

well ya know.

Being a consumer of the penal products m'self, I've experienced a cross section of the items in my years. I'll have to say that my preference are the circumcised ones. But that's just my "taste" so to speak.

I never knew that this was such a hot bed issue until around 1990. Walking around the 'hood one saturday afternoon,(The Castro Dist in San Francisco) I was handed a flier by a woman that said "STOP INFANT CIRCUMCISION NOW!" ..... I looked at her and said, "Honey, it's MY dick and I like that I was cut." She looked at me like I had three heads. (well I do have two ... if ya know what I mean) I just found that to be the most reDICKulas thing ever. Here's a woman getting all up in MY face .... a gay man who loooooves him some pecker .... and talking about MY dick! Please. It would be like a man telling a woman that not to get an abortion.

[musiclawyer]

92. being uncut

is kind of cool. You feel all safe and protected from the elements and then when you gotta go into battle you toss back the cape like zorro and feel like a million bucs.

[nemo137]

94. Not sure I'd do it to my son, but it's not something to worry about for me.

Aside from the utter lack of use my member gets, it was done so early that it doesn't really matter. It's like a congenital back problem I have - always been there, always will be. Not really anything to worry about.

[donheld]

95. People make far too big of a deal about circumcision

As long as they guys penis works that's what matters. If I lost sensation when I was cut you couldn't tell my me. I've had plenty of sensation in my penis over the years. The only guys who can say there is a loss in sensation is a guy who's had it both ways. Some guys seem real bitter because they were circumcised when they were hours only, and I find that quite silly. Honey if your penis works stop whining.

[NV1962]

96. I'm uncut, and I care about keeping it so. Have a problem with that?

Honey, if you don't like a topic, skip or ignore it. :)

[donheld]

97. I absolutely do NOT have a problem with that.

As a gay man i've played with my share of both, and find both quite fun. I just get annoyed at cut guys who whine about it. Like I indicated in the other post if it works don't whine about it. Honey, who said I didn't like the topic?