Overheard a conversation today about environmentalist being responsible for beetle damage to trees..

[Target_For_Exterm]

I live in red state Utah. I overheard a conversation today between a guy who was losing a tree to beetle damage and a county official. Something along the lines of environmentalists not letting them log beetle infested trees when the infestation first started as the reason why the beetles were out of control. Secondly, the environmentalists were to blame for a beetle infestation down south because they wouldn't let downed trees be logged, and the beetles moved in.

I'm not sure how they figure two small incidents such as these could lead to the widespread damage the beetles have been causing. The standard scientific explanation is that global warming is preventing the cold temperatures that kill off the beetles.

It's interesting that environmentalists get blamed for things like global warming. The man I overheard was pretty angry about it, too.

What do you think of this?

[NMDemDist2]

1. i think bark beetles are an invasive species who attach drought stressed trees

killing the trees won't stop bark beetles is that is the beetle that is doing the damage

it may slow them down, but not much

http://cals.arizona.edu/extension/fh/bb_faq.html#16

[mike_c]

5. there are some introduced bark beetles in North America, but...

...the most destructive ones are native.

[A HERETIC I AM]

2. I lived in SoCal from '01 through '04 and the Bark Beetle infestation grew steadily worse....

There are hundreds of square miles of dead trees from the infestation and the reason given was prolonged drought. The rains came but weren't long enough and soaking enough to keep the trees healthy and full of sap. The beetles bore into a healthy tree and the sap essentially keeps them from boring too far in. A tree suffering from drought has diminished sap flows and the beetles are able to bore further into the tree, thus causing more damage and eventually killing the tree.

Every Forester i ever heard on the media in LA said essentially the same thing. The trees are dying because Southern California has had lower annual rainfall over the last decade than it has had for centuries. This adds to the wildfires we have all heard about and seen on the news in the last few years.

[JDPriestly]

3. BARK BEETLES

A few years ago, we drove to Idyllwild. On the way, we noticed what appeared to be many dead trees. Not too long after that forest fires hit the area. I read a newspaper article at the time that blamed the fires on the many dead trees. The article said the dead trees were due to bark beetles. I read recently that the bark beetles are infesting large areas of forest in several western states because it takes one week of very cold weather to reduce the bark beetle population. Apparently, forests are being killed due to the slight increase in the temperature.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/03/national/main...

[mike_c]

4. I'm a forest entomologist and ecologist...

...and that is almost certainly BS. First, the beetles that killed his tree are likely not the same beetles that invade downed trees that aren't salvaged. I presume it was a conifer-- if not, the names will change somewhat. Most conifers are killed by Dendroctonous bark beetles of one type or another. Dendroctonus beetles must colonize living trees in order to build their populations. Not dead trees. There are several genera of related beetles (in the Scolytidae) that colonize recently killed trees, but they rarely kill the trees themselves.

I don't know where you're located, but there are a number of factors that influence bark beetle outbreaks.

One is normal beetle population cycles.

Another is replacement of resistant tree species with susceptible species-- this is particularly true on the southeastern coastal plain, where longleaf pine was largely replaced by loblolly pine about 100 years ago. This was done because loblolly grows to commercial volume faster. Ironically, loblolly pine is the preferred host of the southern pine beetle, D. frontalis.

Another culprit is fire suppression. Fire exclusion leads to dense forests where lots of spindly trees compete with one another for light and moisture, resulting in physiological stress that greatly increases susceptiblity to beetle attack. This is often exacerbated by root rot disease on wetter sites that again is influenced by forest density and tree stress. Prolonged drought can have a similar effect, but again, this is greatly aggravated by high density due to fire suppression.

At any rate, most sound environmental advice will not increase bark beetle problems UNLESS an infestation is already underway and out of control, in which case the point is rather moot. Fire is probably the best answer in that case, rather than salvage logging.

[Cleita]

7. Fire, yes I forgot that element in my post right beneath yours.

Your post though carries authority. My post is about what I heard.

[Target_For_Exterm]

8. People around here are off-their-rocker Republican.

A standard response to global warming is "I don't believe in that." So since global warming can't possibly be causing the bark beetle damage, they make something up. In this case, they kill two birds with one stone - they blame the environmentalists for the environmental damage.

These people are crazy. I've also heard things like "I don't believe PTSD is real" and "Social Security is welfare" and "disabled people should work no matter what" although they conveniently don't enforce the ADA or offer any support that would allow the disabled to work.

I wish more progressives would move here because sometimes I'm seriously tempted to do an injury, although I've successfully restrained myself thus far. I didn't say anything about the bark beetle conversation I overheard because I know exactly how the conversation would go. Rabid Republicanism spouted regardless of facts or scientific data that proves the opposite.

It's just one of those moments where you go :banghead:.

[Cleita]

9. I used to feel the same way when I lived in Idaho.

It was the lakes and forests that attracted me there, but the attitudes towards conservation were maddening.

:hug:

[Cleita]

6. If it's the bark beetle they are talking about, it's because of

the lack of diversity of the trees. Trees that have been logged, replanted and logged again over and over again don't speciate like they should when Mother Nature plants the forest. So the tree plantations as they are called lack a diversity of genes that would make some of the trees not very good to the beetles. Anyway that's how a Forest Ranger/biologist once explained it to me. So actually, the environmentalists aren't responsible but the logging industry.

[Kutjara]

10. Well, it makes a refreshing change from blaming...

...Clinton.

[LoZoccolo]

11. Score one for Oasis. n/t