Home Depot's ad on "pulled over Santa" too close for comfort

[Ian David]

Home Depot's ad on "pulled over Santa" too close for comfort
By Last Night in Little Rock, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Fri Dec 15, 2006 at 05:09:28 AM EST

Home Depot is running an ad this month (click on "Pulled Over Santa") where Santa Claus is pulled over by an officer who asks for his license and registration. Santa can't find the registration, and he sits back looking resigned to the fact that something bad may be in the offing. The elf nervously waves to the officer. The officer then asks: "What's in the bag?"

So, if kids, or even the general public, see this ad, are they supposed to believe that it is legally permissible for a police officer during a traffic stop to ask "What's in the bag?"

The ad is funny on one level because it shows the reality of stops of suspicious characters. It is deathly serious on another level if the public thinks that this police conduct is de rigueur and lawful. (The ad appears to have been produced in Canada for Home Depot.)

Update: No, there is no reasonable suspicion. There is no excessive nervousness, failure to make appropriate eye contact, talkativeness, or furtive movements from Santa or the elf or overpowering smell of air fresheners or obvious modifications to the sleigh for a compartment where contraband could be hidden. Also, it appears unlikely from the video that there was any a bona fide moving violation to pull the sleigh over in the first place. There was, however, no registration in hand. That does not, however, translate into justification for the officer to ask "What's in the bag?" How many innocents are stopped and subjected to the same routine for every one that gets arrested? Without police stop statistics, we can never know.

More:
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2006/12/15/6928/7241

[RebelOne]

1. The writer is making a big stink about nothing. n/t

[Bucky]

29. Santa was obviously speeding (covers the globe in one night!). Plus all that pixie dust he uses

Furthermore, the jolly red nose does suggest he's been drinking. And I think kissing mama underneath the mistletoe probably violates some of South Carolina's "blue laws". Plus who knows what's been laced into all those cookies people leave out for him.

[Sequoia]

38. !!!

I saw that commerical for the first time last night.

[Squatch]

2. It *is* legally permissable for the cop to ask "what's in the bag"

[Gman]

3. And if Santa answers "just some old clothes"

and the cop has no probable cause (including no traffic violation), the cop has no right to look in the bag for his self.

[Squatch]

5. Unless invited to by Santa or after obtaining a warrant.

[MadHound]

6. And then the cop, if he really wants to look,

Will tell you that you have two options. The first is to open the bag, sans warrant. The second is to be further delayed until the cop calls in a K-9 unit, who then sniffs all over the outside the sleigh, and more likely than not, gives a bogus "alert" signal, thus freeing the police to toss your sleigh or other vehicle, all without a warrant. And by this time, you could bet good money that the officer has palmed a baggy, worth anything from a misdemeanor to felony, ready to plant in that bag he wanted to examine.

[Squatch]

7. Well, then Santa would have a leg to stand on in court.

Illegal search and siezure. If he can show that due process was not followed, then the evidence is not admissable.

[MadHound]

9. You obviously haven't been pulled over by a cop lately,

At least not by one with a serious asshole complex. This scenario of mine has been to court many a time(excepting the planting drugs part), and yes, this procedure has been found to be fully legal. They can force you to wait until a K-9 unit comes in to give your car the once over, and if the dog "alerts"(and a false alert can be achieved with some simple training), then the cops have every legal right to toss your car. And I use "toss" not in the metaphorical sense, I mean it literally. I have had friends of mine who've called up and asked for a ride, because their car was tossed. I will get there and found both seats out, interior panels stripped out, trunk torn up, everything like CDs, loose change, what have you dumped by the side of the road, and the car up on jacks with the four tires off and flat(after all, those tires could have coke in them:eyes:).

This is common practice, and frankly if you want to be able to drive your car away after the stop, in many cases it is better to aquiece to the demand that the cop search the vehicle. Cops take it as a personal affront when you invoke your Constitutional rights, and will take vengance if you think that you're actually a citizen of a free country. If you're lucky, you'll be left by the side of the road with a non-functioning car. If you've really pissed them off by insisting on your rights, then your car will be left unlocked by the side of the road while you are hauled off to jail, all over a mysterious baggy that you've never seen before, one that mysteriously appeared somewhere in your car.

[Squatch]

12. I've been pulled over too many times, accounting for my higher insurance

but that's beside the point. I've been asked for consent to search on two occasions and I've declined on both. I was released without any delay more than what it took to write me speeding tickets.

Methinks you've watched Miami Vice a few times too many.

[MadHound]

16. No, I hate Miami Vice, I prefer to deal in reality, what I see with my eyes, OK.

I do not lie, I don't bullshit on such issues. If you really want me to, I can contact my friend and have him send me the pictures of his car after his friendly little police encounter:eyes: Look, just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean such actions don't occur on a regular basis. Here's a link, which is just but one example. Within this court brief you will find the case law examples that are the basis of this practice. Notice the language stating that a K-9 search around the perimeter of the vehicle isn't even considered a search under the rubric of the fourth amendment:wow: <http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/99/06/982770P.pdf>

I also have family in various police units, and they tell me the same thing, that K-9 units are used on a routine basis during traffic stops, just to see what they'll find. And yes, despite your rosy view of cops, they do plant shit on people that they want a bust on, for whatever reason.

Sorry, but the days of the friendly cop on the beat who considered himself a public servant are long gone. Instead, they now consider themselves to be guards at an outdoor insane asylum, and will do whatever is both necessary, and what they can get away with, in order to maintain order. And since the advent of asset forfeiture laws, police departments have a personal stake in making drug bust, since they get X percentage of the assets seized kicked back to them.

This is the way law enforcement is these days. Granted, you may live in one of the few remaining pockets of good police practice, but that is no longer the norm, but rather the shrinking exception.

[uncle ray]

46. it happens, believe it!

it's happened to me many times.

good for you, maybe you look like a good law abiding citizen, but for many of us, just our appearance apparantly is enough to warrant a vehicle search without cause.

at least you did the right thing and said NO. people that consent to searches are not helping one bit.

[Odin2005]

36. Our whole justuce system is rigged to make it impossible to actuallty assert ones rights.

When I was a little kid I used to look up to police officers, Now I see them for what they are: fascist thugs.

[Gman]

14. And you spend a ton of money on an attorney and lost time off the job

just to get the ruling and not even a "Sorry!" from anyone.

I'm 52 now and knew about "probable cause" when I was 16 and just got my license. So did all my friends. We had good reason to know, as people do now. I smiled real big at the cop when I would say, "No, you can't look around in my car." when I was pulled over for simply having long hair and driving a Volkswagen.

I had to educate my wife about cops (we've been married 10 years). She thought all cops were great and wonderful and have the purest of intentions. One morning not long after we were married, my wife told me how she was working in the yard while I was at work and this "very nice cop" stopped to ask her if everything was OK and to chat a bit. I said, "That sorry SOB! He was hitting on you!" She was shocked I would say that. I proceeded to tell her how cops are the biggest whore dogs you will ever find. Later, my friends of many, many years told her the stories like my being pulled over in my VW for no reason and other unethical as well as immoral experiences with cops. What convinced her was that the president of the PTA was a cop and she was Vice President. She was telling me what a nice guy he was. I told her to watch him like a hawk because he can't be trusted because he's a cop and has no loyalties. She was shocked for the last time when he politically turned on her and a lot of his other "friends". Now she knows.

[MadHound]

18. I lived in Springfield Missouri for four years twenty years ago

And was pulled over eight times, either walking or riding my bike, all for the standard hassle, what are you doing, where are you going, etc. Absolute bullshit, but hey, at the time I didn't have the financial resources to take it all to court on the principle of the matter. And yes, I had long hair.

Sad thing is that the area has not changed one iota in that twenty years. Given that this is Ashcroft country though, it isn't suprising. What is suprising is that more and more police divisions are becoming ever more like the one in Springfield, hostile, possibly violent, and not giving one single damn about civil rights and civil liberties.

[sandnsea]

39. They stand for the 2nd Amendment

Therefore, THEY'RE the keepers of the Consitution, doncha' know. If it weren't for that Amendment, there wouldn't be anything in the Constitution the right wingers would defend. It's almost as if the whole gun issue was created because somebody on the right realized they were against more of the Consitution than they were for, and were afraid somebody would wake up to that fact.

[Gman]

49. I've always said that cops are

criminals with a badge. The badge gives them license to do "legally" what they could not do otherwise.

And to be fair, there are some very excellent and good people who also happen to be in law enforcement. Unfortunately, I can only say "some". I've drank too much beer with too many cops.

And, I love to make comments to the youngster-20-something cops about things cops do. They look at me without smiling with that "wall of silence" look, like I'm not supposed to know and they damn sure aren't going to acknowledge anything. I'll just laugh and say, "You must be new!"

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. ROFLMAO!!!!!

"And by this time, you could bet good money that the officer has palmed a baggy, worth anything from a misdemeanor to felony, ready to plant in that bag he wanted to examine."

Methinks you are watching too much tv.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[MadHound]

24. No, I actually watch very little television, I prefer to deal in reality

Here's a dose of that self same reality: <http://www.econ.uconn.edu/working/2003-37.pdf>, ooo, and they do it for "training exercises" to(wink, wink, nudge, nudge)<http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2006/041206evidence.htm> <http://www.authorbarbaradavis.com/media/media-002.php> <http://www.policetalk.com/officers_convicted.html> <http://www.sptimes.com/2004/04/26/Northpinellas/FDLE_investigation_na.shtml> <http://www.ndsn.org/oct95/philly.html> "According to one former Los Angeles County sheriff's officer, corrupt policemen in his department stole as much as $15 million in forfeited property by planting drugs on innocent people and falsifying police reports."<http://www.fff.org/freedom/0795l.asp> <http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/426/thisweek1.shtml> And yes, they do routinely tear a car apart<http://www.erowid.org/freedom/law/forfeiture/forfeiture_media2.shtml> One of the more famous cases of planting evidence<http://www.soc.umn.edu/~samaha/cases/slobogin,%20testilying.htm>

There are literally thousands and thousands of case of police planting drugs and other evidence. That you refuse to believe in such a possiblity is more a statement on your disconnect with reality than anything else.

[Squatch]

28. You and I think alike, MindCrime

You'd think that from reading his responses that the police were nothing but jackbooted thugs who want to (magnanimously) raise funds for their departments through underhanded plantings of drug evidence on speeders.

:eyes:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

30. It's Called Being Rational.

And I'm glad you're a fellow member. :)

[uncle ray]

47. they don't need to plant something for the search to be illegal.

i was recently illegaly searched because the trooper thought a deccidant air filter sitting on my passenger seat was drug paraphanelia. the cop didn't have a fuckin clue what he was looking at, he asked me to consent to a search, i said NO. he did anyway. afterward when i called him on the illegal search, in front of a backup officer from a different department, he "defended" the illegal search by saying the item "looked like a keg tapper". first he thought it was paraphanelia, now a LEGAL keg tapper. just because i was breaking no law and was released without any charges or tickets, does not make it okay.

[High Plains]

33. "Officer, am I free to go?"

That's the key phrase. The traffic stop is over, the ticket has been written, and now the cop wants to search. That's when you ask, "Officer, am I free to go?"

How long the cops can legally make you sit on the side of the road waiting for a drug dog to arrive is unclear. Different courts have arrived at different arbitrary times, but if they make you wait too long, you will be able to get it thrown out.

[Egalitariat]

13. Maybe that will be in the ad's sequel. Home Depot is obviously chipping away

at our rights here.

[maine_raptor]

4. That ad is priceless!!!!!!!!!!!

The look on the elf's face when he waves has me rolling on the floor. Man, you can just feel his awkwardness.

Ok, on the OP er's points:

If you can catch the very beginning of the ad, you'll see a wide shot showing Santa, Sleigh, and a Police Helicopter. Now I'm assuming that among the reindeer is Rudolph. Flying with only one running light on at night is a big FAA no-no. So the cop had cause to stop Mr. Nicklaus. His having no license or registration, then gives the cop the right to ask about the bag.

Moral of the story: Don't give them the opening to stop ya, and you'll be fine.

[Katzenjammer]

8. "Flying with only one running light on at night is a big FAA no-no. So the cop had cause"

Cops have no jurisdiction to enforce FAA regs. You can lose your license to fly, but afaik it's always an admin matter, not a criminal one.

[maine_raptor]

10. True, but..........

If you are flying at night with only ONE LIGHT, be grateful that someone made you land!

[notadmblnd]

11. here's a video I made my son watch

this should be distributed far and wide. It was posted here a few weeks ago, but I don't think enough people have seen it.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NmC5wHfCdM

[silverlib]

17. Thanks - this is VERY good! n/t

[burythehatchet]

23. thank you smrtblnd

excellent public service vid

[Buzz Clik]

35. I saw the ad and laughed. I saw this thread and rolled my eyes.

It's an ad, not a statement of rights or Constitutionality or anything else.

[tammywammy]

41. I had the same reaction

The elf's little wave was just perfect.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

42. Hmmm

"Many, many years ago, a couple of "acquaintenances" were pulled over. They handled it the only way they could... And rolled merrily down the road, leaving behind two assholes who would not be hassling motorists in the future."

I can make up stories too, Tony Montana.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

19. This Is One Of The Silliest Outrages I've Seen Here. And The Cop Absolutely Has The Right To Ask.

So many people are ignorant to the laws and even if they were in fact hiding something, would without hesitation oblige and allow the officer to search the bag. That's why officers use tactics like that, because they know many people will give them what they want. Pretty good strategy actually. But of course, the occupant has every right to not consent to a search or answer the question at all. Either way, I found this thread's premise to be quite humorous and silly in its outrage.

[MadHound]

21. Cop has the right to ask, you have the right to refuse,

But then does the cop have the right to further detain you while he calls in the canine unit? Does the K-9 handler have the right to get the dog to do a "fake" alert in order to provide the police with an excuse to toss your car? Do the police have the right to literally tear your car apart in a search, whether they find anything or not? And finally, do cops have the right to pull you over, even though you have broken no law?

Sorry, but these are abuses that occur all the time, some of which are actually codiefied into law(see my link above for the notion that a once over by a K-9 unit isn't even considered a "search" as covered by the Fourth Amendment.

Tell you what OMC, let your hair and beard grow for awhile, change the color of your skin, go out and do a bit of a weave *in your lane*(this is legal to do. Watch how fast you get pulled over. Then, as you're sitting by the pile of rubble that was your car, you can post to us some more about how cops are all sweetness and light:eyes:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

22. Maybe You Shouldn't Have Had Drugs In Your Car. Yeah, Self-Responsibility. How Annoying.

And when you say it happens all the time, you mean it happens less than a fraction of a percent of the time.

And your little smugly yet ignorantly assumptive notion that you ended your post with about growing my hair blah blah blah, was quite humorous to me. I would wager I was a victim of police harassment 10 times more than you have ever been or ever will be. So your notion that I have no exposure to such things is laughable in its ignorance.

[MadHound]

25. Who said I had drugs in my car? What the fuck are you talking about?

Meanwhile, upthread I've provided some links about police planting evidence, I suggest you peruse them. And if you will read some of the legal articles I linked to, you will find that this isn't a "fraction of a percent" type of deal, it is a serious, persistent problem in law enforcement. One of the driving forces behind such abuses is the forfeiture laws enacted over a decade ago. Now local law enforcement has a direct financial stake in bringing in as much money via siezures as possible. I have a cousin, ranking up pretty damn high in a large Missouri city, and he is frankly appalled by the number of such cases of planting evidence that goes on, not just in his city, this state, but across the country.

Oh, and you've been pulled over eighty times, either walking or riding a bike, just for the simple cop hassle? You've been beaten bloody ten times by various cops just for exercising free speech? Wow, all of this "experience" and you're still a rah rah police supporter? No reasoning with a masochist I suppose:shrug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. The 'You' Was A Generic 'You'.

"Oh, and you've been pulled over eighty times, either walking or riding a bike, just for the simple cop hassle? You've been beaten bloody ten times by various cops"

Been pulled over far more than eighty. Have been beaten for doing nothing (not even protesting anything), and have had spotlights shining in my bedroom at all hours of the night. I still support officers because I'm objective enough and not ignorant enough to think that the handful of bad ones define the exponentially higher ratio of good ones.

Furthermore, I always find it laughable when someone presents links or argument as if it is some majority ratio when in fact the incidents are a minute percentage of officer stops. An absolutely minute percentage.

[Lost4words]

32. Sorry OMC my experience driving all across the US tells me otherwise.

I could fill a number of posts regarding the State of Texas alone.

I would prefer the police concentrate on violent crime but its too cushie to just pull over people and look for contraband. After all a call to a domestic disturbance could cost the officer his or her life. Highway drug busts are relatively safe.

And even though each time I was stopped, I was clean, the stress from the ordeal is awful, The lack of respect, the being treated as a criminal is a total f-ing insult. I have lived an honest mostly legal lifestyle +/-. But being harassed for no reason by some wife beating trooper who may in fact be braking more laws than I ever have in my life makes my blood biol. Even when I try to understand or justify the stop, my heart still beats in my mouth.

Buy the way, every pull over in Texas,.... I was doing the limit staying in my own lane.
And I dont look like a druggie I am in my 50's and clean cut, I AM EVEN STINKING WHITE!

So I can imagine what they come up with my darker countrymen.


BTW, there have been police in my life who at an early age made a great difference and hepled shape my future. I will be the first to say that there many Truly Good police officers out there and respect is what I show any and every officer initially.

But some are less that righteous and some are down right cowards, crooks, lier's, rapists, you name it. And you never know who they are and/or how they will use their authority against you or me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. Hmm, right.

The old "if you're not doing anything wrong you've got nothing to hide" argument for illegal searches.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

44. Nope.

It's the old "if you are doing something wrong and get caught, maybe start by pointing the finger at yourself" argument.

[sandnsea]

37. Which is the entire point of the blog post

People willingly give up their Constitutional rights because it's been muddied up on so many fronts, and in many instances by powerful groups who like keeping the masses ignorant and intimidated.

It also isn't a good idea for officers to use tactics like that, because that's how people get 'off on technicalities' - which is just another phrase for a country that abides by the Constitution, which is what we are supposed to be striving for, after all.

[Bucky]

27. Driving While Jolly

Fat man so busted.

[Lost4words]

31. I didnt like it either, I'm shocked the cop doesn't ask to search for drugs.

They are showing us that authority is paramount to all.

[Maiden England]

34. I say he does have probable cause.

Lets see dude dressed up as Santa, flying in the dark with minimal lighting, bag of toys, with the MO of breaking and entering houses of small children to 'give them toys'. I'm telling you thats a seriously dodgy individual.
Now consider also the fact, that on behalf of home depot, they are also implying he had a bag full of chainsaws, drills, saws and hammers, he's going to give the impression hes a whacked out psycho pedophillic slasher of some kind.

All highly suspicious. Probably why I never believed in Santa either.


(PS visualize a tongue-in-cheek emoticon here)

[JacksonWest]

40. I am angry at clouds!!!!!!!

They hang there-in the sky-mocking me. Forming images that capture my imagination-when I'm trying to work. Kids watching these clouds will think it's legally permissible to pantomine at all hours of the day!!!!!

[spoony]

45. And they're bloody racist. Only "bad" clouds are dark, pfft! n/t

[AZBlue]

48. This country has gone to hell in a hand-basket!

That was a funny and effective ad - and someone needs to remember it was a TV ad and that Santa isn't real. What a moron.

[Raine]

50. I saw that ad last night

I thought it was funny. :shrug: