Searchers ready mass attack of Mt. Hood--(3 Missing Climbers on Mt. Hood)

[Blue_Roses]

Searchers ready mass attack of Mt. Hood
Climbers - Crews hope the weather, which has severely hindered the search, eases so they can scour the mountain
Saturday, December 16, 2006
MATTHEW PREUSCH

GOVERNMENT CAMP -- Should the wind and snow subside today, a small army of searchers will swarm the upper elevations of Mount Hood, which swallowed three climbers a week ago and has been a wintry no-go zone since.

"This is probably going to be an assault from all directions," said Capt. Chris Bernard of the 304th Rescue Squadron of the U.S. Air Force Reserve. "South side, north side and helicopter."

Searchers were only able to get to as high as 8,500 feet Tuesday to look for Kelly James, 48, and Brian Hall, 37, both of Dallas, Texas, and Jerry "Nikko" Cooke, 36, of New York City, and have been kept near the tree line by wind and rain since.

more...


http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/116624133335190.xml&coll=7


____________________________________________________________________

I have been GLUED to this story. I hope they find them alive.

[Turbineguy]

1. Hikers on pleasure bent

go to mountain in winter.

Taxpayers spend millions in rescue efforts.

I'm not suggesting they be left to die. And I'm not saying people should be barred from such activities. I'm just wondering about a sense of proportion.

[Blue_Roses]

6. this was one of the worst storms to hit in over a decade

they were only supposed to be going up for a day--two at the most. It was when one of the climbers got hurt that things turned so tragic.

These guys are very experienced. I have been reading how experienced these people who do this are here:
www.cascadeclimbers.com

I am not one who would find thrills in this adventure though. Staying by the fire at the lodge,drinking "hot toddies" would be my thrill:D

[mike_c]

10. these guys were very experienced and knew what they were doing....

Climbing conditions are better in winter on Mt. Hood. This week's storms have been a monster congruence of bad luck. These weren't just some casual "hikers on a pleasure bent." If they were, the probably would not have survived the first 48 hrs.

[hlthe2b]

15. Prepared climbers who are caught by an unusual "freak" storm

I'm not sure I equate this to the cowboy boot-wearing tourists who decide they will start climbing/hiking Colorado's "14ers" with no provisions, no equipment, no experience--or with their machismo raging, decide to ski the "out of bounds" areas with no training, no avalanche beacons, etc.

There is a difference, and I for one am willing to expend public resources on the first case, while feeling regulation,focal restrictions (as a primary prevention strategy), and required reimbursement for rescue efforts may be the better course for the others...

[northzax]

19. i like the Swiss model here

they will rescue you, but if they determine that you were at fault for needing the rescue, they will present you with a bill for services rendered.

And these three, while apparently well prepared, are not carrying avalanche beacons. That is unforgivable on Mt. Hood. You can rent a beacon at REI in Portland (where I get mine) or any other decent mountain store, for about five bucks a day. Figure three days )one for travel, two for this climb) and three beacons, and these guys are lost for want of $45. a stupid mistake that I hope doesn't cost them their lives.

As for the storm, they had plenty of time to ascend and decend before the storm hit (48 hours is plenty for the north face of Hood) if one of them wasn't injured (I figure a broken leg, at least) they would have been clear of the mountain before the storm hit. simple bad luck.

[hlthe2b]

28. Yup... I agree...

We (tax dollars) can still subsidize even the "at fault" rescues, since they give needed training/practice to teams, but when people fail to prepare or to become properly equipped and trained, there should be some $$ cost to them as a result.

[northzax]

29. Mt. Hood is actually a pretty decent place

to need a rescue, dangerous as it is. There are several volunteer groups (Portland Mountain Rescue, Crag Rats) who do this for free. Once rescued, I hope these guys quietly make out a big check to them, buy them a beer, and go back to Texas.

[kestrel91316]

18. These weren't "hikers on a pleasure bent". They were

serious climbers with a great deal of experience.

Learn the difference.

[KurtNYC]

2. I don't see why other people should put their lives at risk to find these

daredevils. They wanted to see if they could cheat death by going mountain climbing during a blizzard so I would grant them the satisfaction of knowing how that experiment with their own lives turns out.

Who pays for the rescue of these people who have a death wish? Hopefully NOT taxpayers.

[Blue_Roses]

7. you can't just leave them up there

:shrug:

[KurtNYC]

9. If their relatives and friends want to go find them or pay others to do so fine

but IMHO the National Guard should be helping people who were affected by this blizzard in their own homes.

[kenny blankenship]

13. they'll come down on their own

eventually

[hlthe2b]

16. Ever been outside a big city apartment?

Doesn't sound like it....Sorry, to be snide, but heavens to betsy! :eyes:

[Blue_Roses]

17. I know...it's not like they can just

walk outside now that the storm has passed and resume their descent down the mountain...:eyes:

[kenny blankenship]

26. Oh they'll turn up in Spring--Summer at the latest.

Everything on a mountain is eventually headed for the valley.

[BrotherBuzz]

27. Don't be so sure

My cousin was lost on Mt Hood in early 2003. Four spring searches have proved fruitless.

[KurtNYC]

31. Have YOU ever hung out with adreniline junkies? Ever been one?

I used to make my living on skis at 11,000' (so chalk up another defeat for assumptions based on stereotypes).

Please see post #30.

Surfers at the pipeline watch other guys get mauled. Racecar drivers watch each other die in car crashes. Extreme skiers know how easy it is to wind up crippled or dead. Sky-divers, etc. know the stakes because they are the ones who set them ...And yet their passion is for that sport and that risk. I think this is an unusual appetite for many people to understand.

[hlthe2b]

32. Why are you responding to my post answering #13

Perhaps, KurtNYC you meant to respond to another subthread or poster? I had not read anything that you'd posted, nor had I posted to you previously... Perhaps you meant it to be a reply to someone else who you feel misunderstood you? :shrug:

But, yes, since you ask, I have been an adrenaline junkie at times in my life and my best friend's husband made their living as professional race car drivers, including several years driving Nitro Funny Cars at 300 mph. However, I fortunately was trained early in life how to survive in the remote high country and avalanche-prone backcountry so that I would be unlikely to put OTHERS at risk trying to rescue ME. Nonetheless, I'm experienced enough to know that under the "best" of circumstances things CAN go wrong and rescues are sometimes needed.

The OP, I was responding to, obviously has had NO experience in these areas and thus is proposing that no rescue attempts are warranted--that they will just "come down" eventually. :shrug:

[KurtNYC]

33. I apologize

i have been in somewhat of a bad mood today and probably should have skipped posting altogether.

My first post in this thread was especially poor. But what came to mind when looking this story over was something like: what if during Hurricane Katrina the coast guard was sent to rescue 3 guys that were whitewater kayaking?

[hlthe2b]

34. thanks for the post

I understand your point, but the responsibility of emergency responders is to put resources where they can do the most good, not to delineate who is "deserving" and who is not...Coast Guard goes out during all major storms to look for stranded boaters, commercial and recreational alike. So, if some folks were sea kayaking in the Gulf, I'd imagine they'd at least try to grab them as well...

[mike_c]

11. it doesn't sound like you're very well informed about the climbers...

...or about the climb. Or the storm, for that matter.

[KurtNYC]

30. I used to work at a ski resort near there

I saw conditions that were: 25-below, 60mph winds and your operate on only the oxygen you can pull out air that is 11,000 feet above sea level. Saw storms come up quickly and then they could last 12 to 36 hours. I saw avalanches, I saw people come off the mountain in body bags. And I knew better than most what I and others were risking when we hike and ski at extreme altitudes.

So I have to think these guys knew how nature operates and therefor knew they were taking the ultimate risk. Nature plays for keeps.

And here is a story about some people I used to work with:

(mods please note this is a press release and labeled as such at the linked source so I am pasting all of it) edit to add link:
http://www.ia.ucsb.edu/pa/display.aspx?pkey=1431

UC Santa Barbara Researcher Dies in Mammoth Mountain Gas Vent Accident

April 7, 2006

(Santa Barbara, Calif.) – A UC Santa Barbara researcher was among three men who died at Mammoth Mountain in the eastern Sierra on Thursday, April 6, when the trio, all members of the local ski patrol, fell into a volcanic gas vent as they tried to rope off the unsafe area.

Charles Walter Rosenthal, 58, was an assistant specialist with UCSB's Institute for Computational Earth System Science. He was based at a field site in Mammoth known as the Sierra Nevada Aquatic Research Laboratory (SNARL). It is a component of the Valentine Eastern Sierra Reserve, which is a part of the UC Natural Reserve System. He also was employed seasonally as a member of the ski patrol at Mammoth Mountain. He reportedly died when he tried to rescue two colleagues who first fell into the hole, called a fumarole, near the bottom of the China Bowl run.

Rosenthal, who was known by his middle name, had worked as a researcher for the Institute for Computational Earth System Science (ICESS) since 1991. He earlier had been a teaching assistant in the Department of Geography, where he earned a master's degree. He was expecting to return to UCSB in the fall to continue work on his Ph.D. He resided in Mammoth with his wife, Lori, a printmaker in the eastern Sierra Nevada, and their 14-year-old daughter, Lily.

In a statement, UCSB Chancellor Henry T. Yang said: "Our UCSB family is deeply saddened by the tragic loss of our colleague Walter Rosenthal. He was a researcher doing important work in the field of snow hydrology. He was a highly respected guide and mentor for many, known for his spirit in helping others. Our hearts go out to his family and loved ones, who have suffered such a terrible loss. Our campus community will miss Walter, and will always remember and appreciate his many contributions. Our campus flag is lowered today in his memory."

Rosenthal was involved in snow hydrology research and remote sensing. He worked closely with geographer Jeff Dozier, the founding dean and a professor at UCSB's Bren School of Environmental Science and Management.

Said Dozier: "As our friend, colleague, guide, and teacher, Walter had an insightful intellect and an engaging enthusiasm for the study of snow. He had worked in the ski area since the early 1980s, but had always maintained an interest in research and had returned to the university in his 40s to complete his master's degree in geography in 1994."

At the time of his death, Rosenthal and Dozier had been awarded a grant from the National Science Foundation to examine sintering in snow, the process by which snow grains bond with each other and increase the stability of the snow pack.

"Having realized that four decades of sintering theory were at odds with observations and with theories for other materials, Walter was planning to enroll in the Bren School's Ph.D. program next fall," said Dozier. "His work would have changed the way the world thinks about processes within the mountain snow pack."

Daniel Dawson, the director of the Valentine Eastern Sierra Reserve of the UC Natural Reserve System, called Rosenthal "a gifted mathematician who did novel work in image processing." He noted how Rosenthal had been a ski patrol member for many years and had served as the lead avalanche forecaster for Mammoth Mountain. "Supposedly, April 1 was his last day at the mountain and he just went back in yesterday to help out, knowing they would be shorthanded after the big storm."

A memorial service for all three ski patrol members who died –­ James Juarez, Scott McAndrews, and Rosenthal – will be held Friday, April 14, at 6:30 p.m. at the old gondola station, Main Lodge, Mammoth Mountain. The memorial is open to the public.

A memorial fund to benefit Rosenthal's family has been established at the Union Bank of Mammoth Lakes. Contributions to the Walter Rosenthal Memorial Fund can be sent to Union Bank, PO Box 2729, Mammoth Lakes, CA 93546.


###

My point is: I wish those missing hikers the best. I hope they are alive in a cave and that everyone's efforts pay off without further loss of life. But in general in the bigger picture, I would also hope that the National Guard is not diverting resources that should help the biggest number of people.

[treestar]

12. IA, but expect to be flamed a lot

If living on the edge is what a person needs to be able to appreciate life, if ordinary life is not exciting enough, it just seems unfair to them even, to come in and rescue them, when they can "die doing what they love."

Sorry, but while it is not cruel, it is in fact cruel to suggest that they should not be allowed to take the risks they need to take. If they get rescued, they were not allowed to actually take that risk. The next time they go up, it won't be that dangerous, knowing they will be rescued if the risk does not pan out favorably. Won't that take all of the "zest for life" away from them?

They leave the rest of us to deal with the horror of their unecessary deaths, while they are "heroes" just for putting us in that position. They leave us with guilt that we could not save them if we are unsuccessful (and sometimes even condemnations of the more sensible individuals who made a career out of trying to save such people, because they did not do a good enough job, wherever they fail - even lawsuits).

[northzax]

20. actually,

most of the rescue costs are being absorbed by potential government contractors who want to demonstrate technology for finding people in mountain terrain. But yes, the taxpayers pay a portion, including the National Guard costs, should a helicopter be involved. For them, it is also good training. You might as well ask why the coast guard rescues boaters who get into trouble, it's what they do, that's all.

and, of course, I am sure I don't need to point it out, but they had plenty of time to complete the climb before the storm hit, except one of them got injured. These don't appear to have been a bunch of yahoos out for a pleasant hike. And even if they were, they should still be rescused.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

25. They won't "just get left there"

I don't know what's involved there, I don't live near mountains.

In my neck of the woods, we rescue even the most moronic, reckless individuals. In the spring, when the ice breaks up, some fishermen will be adrift on an ice floe, maybe with his shanty, maybe with his truck. The Coast Guard will go anywhere in the great lakes to find these folks and bring them to safety. Trucks and shanties are usually left to the fishes. Trucks might get pulled out if they're hazards to shipping.

Driving snowmobiles across thin ice or small patches of open water can also result in a Coast Guard rescue.

These are usually just funny stories, but in some rare cases, rescuers die

[wakeme2008]

3. I love the Lodge that was built by the CCC up on Hood

I was there in the early 80s....

[Blue_Roses]

5. this is the same lodge they used in the movie,"The Shining"

nt

[tammywammy]

24. Yes in the 1980 version

from IMDB:

http://imdb.com/title/tt0081505/trivia
"The Timberline Lodge on Mt. Hood in Oregon was used for the front exterior, but all the interiors as well as the back of the hotel were specially built at Elstree Studios in London, England. The management of the Timberline requested that Stanley Kubrick not use 217 for a room number (as specified in the book), fearing that nobody would want to stay in that room ever again. Kubrick changed the script to use the nonexistent room number 237."


But the television version that came out in 1997 was filmed at the Stanley Hotel

http://imdb.com/title/tt0118460/trivia
"The Stanley Hotel is not only where the movie was filmed but is also the hotel that originally inspired Stephen King to write the novel, having booked a vacation there just as the hotel was closing for the season and was nearly empty of guests and employees."

[kenny blankenship]

14. Mr. Torrance, I presume?

[Tinksrival]

35. One of my most favorite vacation pics

and one damn good looking mountain!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

4. Best wishes for the searchers

I hope the searchers all make it back safely. It's not exactly the safest place to search.

Finding the three climbers would just be gravy.

[Blue_Roses]

8. yeah, avalanche conditions --

it's going to be tough going, but I'm holding out for hope. They are very experienced...

[MOB]

21. They might all be still alive

Important detail: they've left messages / cell phone "pings" to base camp and they are all suspected to be alive.

Perhaps that's why CNN is interviewing people who were charged the full amount for their rescue efforts.

But good if they are all still alive

[seabeyond]

22. i hope they are successful. i am ot worried about money. i am more

concerned with life.

[seabeyond]

23. dupe