I think people here misunderstand why they threw Cindy out.

[rockymountaindem]

This is probably going to be unpopular, but here goes...

First of all, I understand that she just came from a protest and didn't have time to change her shirt. If that's the situation it's totally understandable, and on the face of it there's nothing wrong with that.

I don't know how many of you have ever sat in the House or Senate viewing gallery, but the rules are very strict. The one time I was there, I sat down in the Senate gallery after taking a long look at the list of rules, I was allowed to go to a seat of my choosing. One of these rules states that reading is not permitted. After watching the procedures for 5 minutes (there was nothing happening, only 4 Senators were on the floor and one was just reading stuff into the record), I decided to take out a map to figure out how to get to my next destination. Within seconds of opening the folder where I had my map, the young lady who let me in came quickly down the stairs and sternly told me "There is no reading in the gallery. If you want to do that you'll have to leave". Now, being 14 at the time (this was only a few years ago) I was taken by surprise that I couldn't even look at a one-page map but I felt bad about violating the rules. I stayed another 10 minutes and left.

So, evidently they are very, very strict about what you can do in the viewing gallery. It seems that you can't do anything except sit there quietly and look straight ahead. I can understand that; I'm sure they don't want people just going up there and reading a book or something.

Now, back to Cindy. Considering all the rules, I'm willing to bet that wearing a political T-shirt is against one of them. You can't unfold a banner or hold a sign up there, so t-shirts like Cindy's were probably already against the rules. The officer couldn't let her put the jacket back on, because there would be no guarantee Cindy wouldn't take it back off during the speech, forcing the police to either remove here then and make a big scene, or let someone sit there, violating the rules, probably on camera.

With this in mind, I'm not surprised the wanted to get Cindy out of there, and considering the rules (which apply to everybody) it makes perfect sense.

Why they felt it necessary to arrest her and take her down to the police station in handcuffs, though, I can't explain.

[FreedomAngel82]

1. Last night on Mike Malloy's show

he read the rules and NO WHERE did it talk about tshirts. There was no purpose in arresting her.

[Mr.Green93]

11. NO one has ever been arrested for a shirt before

so why was she the first? She was arrested because of who she is and nothing more.

[WahooJunkie]

18. I don't know if it's because of who she is.

If you read her statement, someone had to tell the officer who she was AFTER he rushed her up the stairs.

I think it's because of WHAT the shirt said, and they are used to people ripping of clothes, and unveiling anti-war messages (Medea Benjamin and Code Pink do it often) and so they immediately grabbed her when she opened her jacked.

[Matariki]

45. The officer isn't the one who decided - he was called by someone

who undoubtedly knew who she was.

[johnaries]

79. Actually, yes they have. At other Bush speeches.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0715-07.htm

CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- Trespassing charges against two people who wore anti-Bush T-shirts to the president’s July 4 rally at the West Virginia Capitol were dropped Thursday because a city ordinance did not cover trespassing on Statehouse grounds….

…“We certainly did not expect to be arrested for expressing our freedom of expression," Jeff Rank said.

He said they were not protesting in any other way than simply wearing the shirts and did not said anything.

Law enforcement officers told the couple to take the shirts off, cover them or get out. When they refused and sat down, they were arrested. They then stood and accompanied the police, said Charleston Mayor Danny Jones….

…. Andrew Schneider, executive director of the ACLU’s West Virginia chapter, said the organization has been monitoring a pattern of similar cases in other states. The ACLU in September filed a federal lawsuit against the Secret Service, seeking an injunction against the Bush administration for segregating protesters at his public appearances.

The Secret Service agreed to stop the practice, ACLU attorney Witold Walczak told The Charleston Gazette.

[liberal N proud]

2. What would they have done if someone walked in wearing a t-shirt

that said Support our Troops?

If they would have thrown that person out, then I agree. But I suspect that person would have been allowed to stay. That is called hypocrisy

[rockymountaindem]

5. That's a tough call

I can't answer that one but you make a good point.

[cantstandbush]

75. Where can we buy a T-shirt like Cindy wore and was arrested in?

The numbers should be a very powerful statement to America. What we need is for the Dems in Congress to purchase a T-shirt and wear it to every session.

[thinkingwoman]

8. Yes, and they did...

The wife of a Repuke was removed for wearing a Support Our Troops t-shirt.

See this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2078712

[liberal N proud]

10. That is the report this AM

What's to say that isn't fabricated to piss on the fire they created?

[FreedomAngel82]

24. Why was this not mentioned last night with Sheehan?

[thinkingwoman]

34. Think the "liberal media"

would notice? :eyes:

I'm not taking the report as gospel, but as of this moment there is no evidence that it is a lie.

[papau]

25. But the GOPer was not arrested. n/t

n/t

[thinkingwoman]

32. yes, I know

Not surprised by that part, are you?

[papau]

62. sadly there are few surprises these days. :-(

:-(

[WinkyDink]

65. No, because that would leave an actual record of proof that the episode

occurred.
I don't buy it for a minute.
That Republican dame would've been dressed to the nines.

[July]

47. Removed but not arrested or jailed.

Even though, by her own report, Beverly Young swore at the police and called an officer an idiot. She and her husband also implied that the police would be in trouble for ejecting her.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/01/news_pf/Worldandnation/T_shirt_earns_exit_fr.shtml

And, as another poster suggests, this may have been an attempt by the police to appear "even-handed."

[thinkingwoman]

80. I think this is great

especially if it was an attempt to appear "even-handed" since it so obviously resulted in vastly unequal treatment.

[OKNancy]

9. Rep Young's wife said she was asked to leave

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060201/APX/602010641

Sounds fishy, and she wasn't arrested...and there seems to be a conflicting story, but...

[liberal N proud]

16. Rejected but not arrested

IF that is even true!

[KoKo]

22. Fla Congressman's wife was asked to leave for Support the Troops T-Shirt

Fla. Congressman Bill Young was ranting on C-Span about it. His wife was asked to leave while Cindy was arrested. Think about that....

[rockymountaindem]

27. All I said was

I understand why they would ask her to leave. Arresting her and charging her with a misdemeanor is overboard, I agree.

[woodsprite]

55. They did - except they asked her to leave. Sen. Young's wife. (R-FL) n/t

[jsamuel]

3. last line + and charge her with a crime with the penalty of 1 year in jail

[WahooJunkie]

4. How about instead of....

...being "willing to bet" that one of the rules covers T-shirts, you actually find the rules and post the one here that says you can't wear T-shirts bearing the number of dead soldiers.

[sabra]

6. what are the rules for painting your finger purple and waiving it in the

air?

[maxrandb]

28. and What are the rules

about bursting out in "spontaneous" applause every time the "Plati-Bush" recites another sycophantic platitude??

Plati-Bush: A creature that spews forth nonsensical platitudes and worthless pandering sound-bites, often passing them off as intelligent debate. See also; Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and Bill O'Reily. The Plati-Bush has the ears of a chimpanzee, the eyes of a weasel, and the brain of a bird. A REALLY SMALL BIRD!!

[sabra]

33. LOL - you should copyright that one :-)

[thinkingwoman]

36. this is great except

that birds are smart.

How about a small worm brain? :evilgrin:

[maxrandb]

58. Ok

don't want to offend the bird lovers. :evilgrin:

I wish I had some artistic or photo-shopping talent. I'd put the chimperor's face on a Platypus and call is the "Duck-billed Platy-Bush".

When you get right down to it, God must have been "tripping" when he made the platypus. A semi-aquatic, web-footed egg-laying mammal, with a broad flat tail and a snout resembling a duck's bill.

[thinkingwoman]

72. thanks!

I am a bird fan.

About the Platy-Bush...I'm down with that. And yes, I agree that God was tripping. Good for her! :evilgrin:

[SillyGoose]

7. Fair enough assessment, but the outrage lies in the fact that she

was handcuffed and arrested. If she was simply removed from the Chamber, that's one thing, but to arrest her and charge her with unlawful conduct is what angers and frightens me.

[WahooJunkie]

12. How is it a fair enough assessment?

He just speculated that the rules barred T-shirts like Cindy's without actually citing one.

That's like MSM's "Some say..." rhetoric.

[CottonBear]

19. Mrs. Sheehan's T-shirt stated a FACT not an opinion. That's the point. nt

[SillyGoose]

41. After reading further I realize now that there is some controversy about

the rules about t-shirts. I didn't know that when I posted. I'm not defending what the police did at all.

[Midlodemocrat]

17. How about asking her to put her jacket back on?

From reading what she posted at MichaelMoore.com, it appears that she didn't intend to use that shirt as a 'message'. She had been wearing it all day.

If they found it so offensive, why not ask her to put her jacket back on rather than hauling her out like a criminal?

[SillyGoose]

39. I agree 100%, and I'm not defending the police actions in an way.

They absolutely should not have arrested her and it would have been the smart thing to ask her remove the shirt or put the jacket back on. On further reading I see that there is some controversy about the dress code rules which I didn't know about. I just felt that the OP gave an interesting personal viewpoint about his experiences with these rules when he read a map in the Chamber.

[July]

50. Cindy's report of the incident says that they did not ask her to cover up.

I think the police say they did. At any rate, the Reuters photo shows her zipped up.

[July]

Yes, is this one of the freedoms that "they" hate us for?

It looks like "they" are winning.

[rucky]

13. I don't think anybody expected her to behave...

and nobody's surprised she got booted out (including Cindy), but it's the "arrested" part that's chilling for any of us nonviolent protestors.

[Pacifist Patriot]

44. I agree.

I'm not surprised she was asked to leave...BUT

If her presence was cause for concern she should have been prohibited entrance rather than taken out after reaching her seat.

If her t-shirt was against the rules they should have asked her to put on her jacket.

If that wasn't an option they should have simply asked her to leave.

The arrest, particularly in light of Young's wife's situation, is extremely chilling.

That having been said, even though I can understand concern about her potential behavior, someone legitimately invited by a member of Congress being barred entry would bother me as well. It isn't as if she snuck in. A member of Congress gave her a ticket. Whoa!

[July]

51. If they asked her to leave before she disrupted, what is that?

Pre-emptive arrest?

[rucky]

59. Don't get me wrong....it's total bullshit.

but not unexpected bullshit.

[pitohui]

14. i have sat in the viewing gallery, nope, nobody checking T-shirts

i was there under the auspices of a congressman, true, but there was no reading of the rules, check of wardrobe or presumption that i as an american citizen was automatically going to misbehave

the nature of the site being what it is, a LOT of us will have been in the viewing gallery, so i would be interested to hear if your experience is the more common -- or if mine was

yeah, i guess i don't understand

to me it was purely a political ploy to keep the camera to switching to her face to get her reaction shot when * said anything stupid abt the war

if you can still have generosity of heart for these fascists, you're a better man than i, they've killed all ability to understand in me

i have never seen a photo of cindy nicely dressed by my snotty standards, so what, they knew that she runs around in t-shirt and shorts when they issued the invitation

[shrdlu]

15. Support Troops teeshirt booted...

Rep. Bill Young of Florida was just on the house floor
moaning about his wife being removed for wearing a "Support Our
Troops" teeshirt.

[KoKo]

31. This is GOOD! Shows that Repugs have lost their freedoms along with

Democrats. The House and Senate Buildings belong to WE THE PEOPLE! We should have access to them no matter what clothing we wear. That's the point.

When the Bushies can convince people that the buildings, streets, sidewalks and all areas of Public Taxpayer funded buildings and grounds are only available to those who wear clothing they approve of...then our Democracy is lost forever.

And, they are slowly convincing folks that the "VIP's" security is more important than OUR OWN SECURITY from their Fascist/Totalitarian ideas.

We own our country! Not George Bush and his Crime family.

[stepnw1f]

48. Bingo!!!!

We need to use this.

[txindy]

43. And we've only his 'word' on it, too.

As if that counts for something.

[July]

52. But only "booted," not arrested. nt

[Marr]

60. I don't believe it, sorry.

I think he's lying to counter the Sheehan thing. They lie all the time.

[rpgamerd00d]

69. Confirmed by Capitol Police Sgt Kimberly Schnieder

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060201/APX/602010641

[txindy]

71. No, it was not confirmed by her, at all. She refused comment.

All the spokesperson said was that Mrs. Young was not ejected and left on her own. Well, so did everyone else in the gallery except Cindy! That doesn't mean they were all asked to leave!

You keep pointing to that article and it still says absolutely nothing. It's all about Mrs. Young's statements. No corroboration. No photos. Nothing. Yet you keep pushing this story.

[Marr]

76. If anything, that article backs me up.

Since the Sgt. said the woman left on her own, and clearly was not arrested. The source for the story is... Ms. Young herself. Smells like PR.

[pitohui]

66. ok so it happened twice instead of once in a billion gallery visits

i remain unconvinced of the need or the regular implementation of this

freeps go all the way back to the 90s to find one dude kicked out w. a t-shirt

so in 200-plus yrs of congress we've had 3 such cases

nope it is not excused as business as usual in my little black book of their evil deeds and evil souls

[Spazito]

20. According to Jonathan Turley on CNN, the rule for 'appropriate

dress' is written to refer to those attending from Congress rather than a more expansive rule that includes everyone including those in the gallery. I hope Cindy is able to take this to court.

[pitohui]

68. yes, because it's TOURISTS coming all the time

the american tourist is notorious for showing up anywhere anytime in tee shirt and shorts, we are smiled at the world over for our silly dress

if they can only find 3 people, two of them women, in 200 years, kicked out for wearing a tee shirt, i'm gonna call bullshit on the idea that anyone can even argue that there is any justification for this

tee shirts are BETTER than full business suits, less place for the disgruntled postal worker to conceal her weapons or the bitter retired CIA man to conceal his anthrax powders

[txindy]

21. Sorry, but t-shirts are exempt from the rules.

"Believing that the Capitol Police needed guidance in determining what behavior constitutes a demonstration,” the United States Capitol Police Board issued a regulation that interprets “demonstration activity” to include: parading, picketing, speechmaking, holding vigils, sit-ins, or other expressive conduct that conveys a message supporting or opposing a point of view or has the intent, effect or propensity to attract a crowd of onlookers, but does not include merely wearing Tee shirts, buttons or other similar articles of apparel that convey a message.”

http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/97-1337c.pdf

[WahooJunkie]

23. Thank you

Now you've refuted his original "I'm willing to bet" there are rules against T-shirts.

Post is now Moot.

[SillyGoose]

49. Thank you for posting this.

When I responded to the OP, I was under the assumption that there were rules which prohibited the wearing of shirts with messages of some sort, not that it would warrant an arrest but that it could warrant a removal. I now see that's not the case as t-shirts are exempt.

[tuvor]

26. Okay, so why didn't they check her BEFORE she was ALLOWED in?

Like you said, "considering the rules..."

Or does that Keystone Kops type of behaviour represent the best the USA has to offer?

[goodhue]

29. you should read Cindy's account . . .

http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/index.php?id=594

[WahooJunkie]

30. Exactly.

So now we can sum up:

1) The officer DID NOT know who she was until AFTER she was forced up the stairs.
2) There is NO rule against T-shirts bearing political messages

She was not arrested for who she was. Yes, the rules apply to everyone, but it does not make "perfect sense" that Cindy OR the repuke were asked to leave.

Both should have been allowed to sit quietly expressing their beliefs by wearing their respective T-shirts.

[Midlodemocrat]

35. OT - wahoojunkie are you at UVA?

edit for stupid typo

[WahooJunkie]

37. yes, CLAS 2003 n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

40. Great!

I'm in VA, too. You can probably guess where.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

38. They threw her out because they were afraid she would call out

or that the news would pan in on her and embarass BB Brain...It had Nothing to do with any rule. Newsweek said that some dems were in the back reading and using their blackberries. they didn't get thrown out...

[exlrrp]

42. SUE THE BASTARDS!!

This is my first post on DU
I hope that Cindy Sheehan sues the bastards for depriving her f her rights. Ameicans should be able to watch their government in action at every phase and this one sure was no top secret.
Sheehan was invited there by a Congresswoman!! What did Woolsey have to say about THAT?
Its time for the ACLU to step in and sue the White House for illegally restricting accesss to public property

[bloom]

56. Welcome to DU!

And I agree.

I understand - from her post on KOS - that a lawsuit is in the works. As it should be.

[hang a left]

63. Glad to have you aboard.

[Pacifist Patriot]

46. It must depend on the guard because when I sat in the House gallery...

I was wearing a "Virginia is for Lovers" sweatshirt and read some pamphlets during a lull and the guards didn't say boo to me. There are too many discrepancies and inconsistencies in this story for my comfort.

[txindy]

53. This is the main point, though, right here.

The courts and the Capitol police, themselves, say that a t-shirt is exempt from the rules barring protests. So, your "Virginia is for Lovers" shirt was safe from security, although you might've been jumped by a rabid fundie. :rofl:

"Believing that the Capitol Police needed guidance in determining what behavior constitutes a demonstration,” the United States Capitol Police Board issued a regulation that interprets “demonstration activity” to include: parading, picketing, speechmaking, holding vigils, sit-ins, or other expressive conduct that conveys a message supporting or opposing a point of view or has the intent, effect or propensity to attract a crowd of onlookers, but does not include merely wearing Tee shirts, buttons or other similar articles of apparel that convey a message.”

http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/97-1337c.pdf

[Bridget Burke]

54. Aren't there rules against animals on the floor?

Guide dogs might be allowed, but the beautiful German Shepherd was retired military.

Some rules can be bent.

[Marr]

57. Purple fingers.

No, they won't arrest you for just making a political statement. They arrest you for making a political statement they disagree with.

[951-Riverside]

61. Excelent point Marr I hope your post gets alot of attention

...Also what about the non-service German shepard they allowed to attend yesterday?

[Marr]

77. There you go, yep. More of the same.

You can do anything you like, so long as you support the GOP.

[Not_So_Right_Wing]

64. She was wearing a T-shirt...

how the hell did that justify her being removed...?

[mtnester]

67. So TELL me...how DID she get past TWO security checkpoints without

anyone checking? I thought (what with all the spectacular Code Pink triumphs) that a simple "Please remove your jacket missy" would have occurred? Or how about THIS....allow her to remove her Tshirt in the Bathroom and put her jacket back on..it covered her up just fine...hand out the t-shirt young lady...

Or how about asking her to come with them without the manhandling? The arrest?

OR HOW ABOUT FUCKING LETTING HER SIT THERE WITH THE SHIRT ON?!?!?! If W REALLY believes he is doing a heckuva job, how could he POSSIBLY be threatened by a FACT he helped create and stands by EVERY EFFIN DAY!

Bye bye Constitution - we hardly knew ye.

[raysr]

70. This will evolve as

not just against "libruls" but anyone. There will be some very disillustioned "Bushies" as their being dragged off to jail WITH their "Hail Bush" shirt on!

[BiggJawn]

73. Just one key point of difference in your stories...

I missed the part where YOU were bums-rushed out of the gallery with your arms pinned behind you, rushed downstairs into a waiting paddywagon, and hauled to the Polizie Stationne...

[senaca]

74. You're right they are very strict.

I got kicked out because my daughter fell asleep in my lap. There are rules against sleeping in the gallery. I must have a weird sense of humor but I found it humorous. The rest of the family stayed and it has become one of those family stories we visit from time to time when we remember trips we have taken. It would be interesting to find out the history of the rules for the gallery and the events that caused them. It might even make an interesting book.

[Maat]

78. The U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights trump both ..

their rules and their concerns.


Although regulation of time, place, and manner of expression may be regulated, if the rule/policy/law is not content neutral (it was not here), there has to be a compelling interest to have it, with no less restrictive means available. That req. is also not met.

I can't wait to donate to the legal fund on this case that Cindy is filing.