Who made the decision to stick Kain out there on our behalf?

[Skidmore]

Whose choice was that?

[Midlodemocrat]

1. I thought he did a good job.

I loved that he said 'cronyism'.

I am gathering that a lot of people had issues with him as a speaker, but I thought he nailed our message pretty well.

That being said, I didn't watch all of it, so...

[endarkenment]

4. So you want to stay in Iraq forever

and work with the fascists across the aisle in some fantasy of bipartisan idiocy?

[Midlodemocrat]

7. Where did I say that?

Quite a stretch don't you think?

[endarkenment]

20. "I thought he nailed our message pretty well. "

His message on Iraq: stay the course must succeed.
The rest of his message was peppered with cloying appeals to bipartisan congeniality.

[Midlodemocrat]

21. Well, frankly, I heard a lot more from him than just that.

He spoke of cronyism and lies. That was pretty good.

[endarkenment]

23. yes that was good.

Did I say that everything that came out of his mouth was wrong? it seems however that we are supposed to work and play nicely with the lying fascist cronies who stab us in the back at every opportunity, swiftboat our war hero presidential candidates, pull crying game bullshit stunts, and are in the process of establishing a permanent one party state. yeah he addressed those issues real well. You are correct. my mistake.

[linazelle]

17. He did an outstanding job. Chris Mathews' mouth was hanging open

when he was done. 'Nuff said.

[iconoclastNYC]

45. Our message should win over the GOP whores?

Is that the objective? Or is it to win over the indpendants and the nonvoters?

I'd rather make them happy and fuck Chris Matthews.

[underpants]

19. I warned them about the brow

He did a great job

[Midlodemocrat]

26. I thought so, too.

The brow doesn't bother me, but I can understand why it bothers folks. Usually, I am 'listening' rather than 'watching' TV because there is always so much to do around here.

I thought his comments on 'cronyism' and 'deceptions' were wonderful.

[blm]

2. It would have been Dem leadership - Reid and Pelosi - but, I feel quite

certain that Bill Clinton's people still run the advisory faction for DC Dems.

[endarkenment]

3. As my kid pointed out

that is one disturbing looking individual. His precise words were "Dad, what the heck is wrong with his face?" Kaine's left eyebrow is noticably higher than his right: he has facial asymmetry and it is very distrubing. Plus of course he was, to put it mildly, a boring center-right doofus.

I hate the Democratic Party leadership.

[MadHound]

8. And that right there is a huge part of our problem

People judging our politicians based on their looks, not their words, deeds and actions. How goddamn shallow is that? Geez, if we were voting on looks 145 years ago, Lincoln would have never taken office, and neither would have FDR seventy three years ago. I hope that you imparted this wisdom to your son to not judge people on their looks, but their words, deeds and actions.

[Midlodemocrat]

9. >

:thumbsup:

[endarkenment]

22. We entered the political tv age 46 years ago.

The seminal event was the Kennedy-Nixon debate. I'm am sorry that this is the way things are, but this is the way things are. Roosevelt was actually quite photogenic aside from the polio thing. Lincoln was obviously fugly and wouldn't pass tv muster.

Oh and thanks for the condescension but of course my son and I talked about the hideously misplaced center-right boring biparitsan pablum that Kaine served up.

[MadHound]

24. Again, thanks for being part of the problem, not part of the solution

Sacrificing intelligence and integrity for photogenic good looks has indeed caused harm to this country. That you and your son were discussing this is indicative of just how much a part of the problem you are. If you hadn't been so damn hung up on the man's looks, you would have probably noticed that Kaine took Bush out to the woodshed for everything from lying us into a war to the national debt, to cronyism, to cutting vetrans' programs, and everything in between. A very nice laundry list of what this misadministration has fucked up. Sure, it was done in a folksy, polite tone of voice, but hey, that's something that is appealing to red state swing voters, whom this response was primarily aimed at.

I would hope that at least the liberals and progressives had evolved beyond getting hung up on looks, but judging from you and other posts I've seen around here, we haven't. Sad, very very sad.

[endarkenment]

29. Looked bad sounded worse.

Sorry that you are so hung up on the tv presence issue. I stated quite clearly that there were two problems: appearance and message.

[MadHound]

30. I'm the one who's hung up on the TV presence issue? LOL!

Nice try friend, but you're the one nattering on about Kaine's eyebrows and how bad he looked on television. What I'm saying here is that you, and many others apparently, need to grow up and stop being so hung up on looks, to the point where it obviously detracts from your ability to comprehend what the man is saying.

If you had been paying attention to something other than Kaine's looks, you would realize that he put out a speech that was as critical of Bush and his policies as Villaraigosa's was later on in the evening. Took Bush to task for lying us into a war, for the administration's cronyistic practices, for wanting to cut taxes further in the face of a huge defecit, for abandoning senior's with the prescription drug bill fiasco, for harming our education system with NCLB, and on and on. As a serious leftist, I found it rather refreshing to hear coming from the Democratic party.

Tell you what, here is the transcript of Kaine's speech.<http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/Dems.transcript/> You can read it without being distracted by how Kaine looks:eyes: Do so, and then get back to me if you still think it was pabulum.

[endarkenment]

31. Your opinion differs from mine.

If you like center-right appeasement-monkey Democratic pablum, that is fine. I dislike it. Everytime I hear a Democratic 'leader' announcing how we have to work together with our Republican colleagues I want to throw up.

I disliked Kaine's speech and he looked like shit. You can continue to ignore the importance of image in the age of TV politics all you like, but that is not a matter of opinion, its importance is simply a fact.

[MadHound]

35. Yeah, I suppose it is a fact

That there are many many sad, shallow people who judge a person by their looks, not their words or deeds. How very sad and pathetic, even more so that they are passing such bigotry on to their children.

Let me guess, you're one of the beautiful people, eh? Immacuately coiffed, teeth straightened, tummy tucked, hair waxed, etc. etc.

I am thankful every single day that I'm not that shallow. Sad to see that so many are, supposedly thinking, intelligent, tolerant liberals. Pathetic quite frankly.

Reality is what you make of it friend. Apparently you've decided to make it about shallow, surface issues. Must suck to be you.

Cheers.

[endarkenment]

39. I'm just curious why you keep turning this into a personal attack?

Have I attacked you or your children or your appearance, or said anything as stupid and repulsive and nasty as "must suck to be you"?

I disliked the choice of the speaker for the Democratic rebuttal. You have transformed that somehow into a personal issue. Get a grip.

[MadHound]

40. The reason that I'm going after you is because it is attitudes like yours

The bigotry, the shallowness, the superficiality that has done some serious damage to this country. Routinely people are passed over for homes, jobs, political office, the presidency, all because they don't measure up to our society's unnatural standard of beauty.

And hear you are, with a rising Democratic star delivering a key speech that will win the party back a bunch of red state swing votes, which we desperately need, and you are running him down about how he fucking looks. Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick, grow the fuck up and stop passing this stupidity on to your children. Learn to value people for who they are, not what they look like. Sheesh, and you call yourself liberal? How, with that sort of low tolerance.

Yes, you disliked the choice of speaker, that's fine if you make that choice on the basis of merit or politics. But to do as you have, and dismiss him based on his looks is just assinine beyond belief.

[endarkenment]

41. And once again

Although this seems pointless, I've made it clear that his message sucked and his looks were disturbing due to a facial asymmetry. You keep ignoring the 'his message sucked part' and keep glomming onto the appearance part. You then launch into a personal attack. Are you having fun yet? Are you scoring points?

[MadHound]

47. No, I got the part about his message sucking in your opinion

I really have no problem with that. But the fact that you are slamming this man based on his looks I find to be outrageous. And the fact that you're discussing this with you child, and thus reenforcing this bigotry in your child I find to be absolutely disgusting. So the man has a facial fault of some kind, the vast majority of Americans do. Grow up and deal with it, judge the man based on his deeds, not his looks.

What would you think of somebody if they stated that one MLK's speeches sucked because, hey, he's black and his speech was too accomodating? Wouldn't you think that person was being a bit of a bigot, especially if they shared such opinions with their child? Same difference friend, same difference.

If you want to go off on how somebody's speech sucked, based on the merits of the person and that speech, great, we can go all day long and I will never personally attack you. But you start wailing on somebody because of their looks, race, sex, etc., dude, I'm going to be all over your shit like my name suggests. So either deal with it or evolve into a tolerant human being.

[endarkenment]

50. MLK had great TV presence. nt.

[MadHound]

51. Way to get the point, NOT!

:eyes:

[endarkenment]

52. It is the point.

The point you keep missing. Actually you don't miss it at all, you just transform it into misplaced anger against me. MLK had incredible TV presence which is one reason he didn't live past 38.

[MadHound]

53. No, I get it all right

For you, and many many others, in all of their shallowness, the main part of "presence" is how the person looks. Not what they say, not what their intellectual prowess is, not what they propose, but it pretty much all boils down to how they look. You gave yourself away when you stated, first and foremost "As my kid pointed out that is one disturbing looking individual. His precise words were "Dad, what the heck is wrong with his face?" Kaine's left eyebrow is noticably higher than his right: he has facial asymmetry and it is very distrubing." The rest of your critique is a mere after thought, something that you are trying to hide behind now that myself and others have caught onto your game.

But hey, like anything else, you too can change this, both in yourself and your kid. It's hard work, but it can be done.

Well, this has been real, it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun. I've got to go, and we can continue this at a later date. Remember, tolerance is a good thing.

[endarkenment]

59. "Remember, tolerance is a good thing. "

I'm sure the irony of that closing statement of yours is entirely lost on you.

[mattclearing]

16. Great...good to know you have your priorities straight.

"Why did they pick this guy? He has facial asymmetry!"

I'm so sick of posts that bash Dems before Republicans. Come back after you've bitched about President Bush for a half hour. Then I'll listen to your whining about Kaine.

:)

[MrBenchley]

32. One wonders why someone who hates Democrats

would clog up a Democratic mesage board...but some answers are obvious.

P.S.: Good job teaching your kid to focus on the superficial.

[thebigidea]

54. well, you spit venom at the "loony lefties" in the party...

what's the difference exactly?

[MrBenchley]

57. No, I just point out

how full fof shit they are.....

And since they're always claiming they don't support Democrats, they're not actually in the party.

[SaveElmer]

5. Kaine did a very good job...

An adult and mature counterpoint to the white house adolescent!

[endarkenment]

6. In some alternate universe.

Thankfully nobody was watching.

[SaveElmer]

10. We ignore Warner and Kaine's examples at our peril...

They have lit a path to victory in red states...I suggest we follow it.

[chaumont58]

12. And ignore blue states?

Fucking DLC. I am sick of them. This party is screwed until the cancer that is the DLC is excised.

[SaveElmer]

13. Well I have been on DU since 2001...

And I have to say that is just about the most useless reply I have ever received to a post...

Like it or not, half this country thinks DLC Democrats are too liberal. I know people like you have no interest in actually winning, and that it is much more satisfying to rant and rave about supposed enemies within the party. So feel free to wallow in your indignation. I just thank God saner heads are in charge of the party.

[chaumont58]

28. Well, other than that, what do you really think?

I'll say it again, fuck the DLC and the horse it rode in on. The 70s are gone. They won't be coming back, in spite of Al From and Bruce Reed.
You almost hurt my feelings. Then I realize you must be a DLCer, so you have no affect.

[Joe the Revelator]

37. Took the words right out of my mouth!!

A lot of people could care less about winning. They'd rather let the country slip further and further out of reach, all the while screaming about boogymen whose ideas match up with theirs 9 times out of 10. The anti-DLC crowd is what is killing the party, not the other way around.

[wishlist]

11. There other several other Dem governors who are more telegenic

Gov Kain was not an impressive speaker and it was distracting how his left eyebrow kept going up. I kept thinking that Pa Gov Rendell, N.C. Gov Easley or New Mexico Gov Richardson probably would have all made a better impression if they could have been pressed into service for this event.

[MadHound]

14. Amazing how shallow some folks are around here

Criticizing a man over how he looks, yet ignoring what he said. Kaine came off as polite, folksy and sincere, something that gains a lot of traction with red state swing voters. The fact that he isn't telegenic, just regular folks looking helps a lot too.

And in that polite, folksy Mr Rogers way, he absolutely blasted the Bush administration of its failures, from lying us into the Iraq war to corruption to the failure of the prescription drug bill, and much else besides.

If we had put up some fire breathing, slick haired Dem for the response, all you would be hearing about in the RW echo chamber is how the Dems proved they were divisive and partisan. With Kaine's presentation they can't do that, so they have to deal with the message.

And again, focusing on somebody's looks to the extent of not hearing what their saying is shallow, quite shallow. Get beyond the looks, and hear what the person is saying.

[MrBenchley]

34. Certainly a sign of "progressive" values on display, isn't it?

By the way, you will recall there was a lot of pissing and moaning on here from the Kool Kidz about Kaine's speech long before he ever made it.

[dsc]

55. Easley is notorious for hating political stuff

No way he would have done this. Admittedly he would have done a good job in many respects though.

[rucky]

15. Reid, Pelosi & Richardson n/t

[Strawman]

18. I don't know if he was abel enough for the task

Sorry...

[stray cat]

25. Whoever it was made a great decision

service and competence and examples of how it should be done from governors

[Midlodemocrat]

27. I agree.

He comes across very well. I think he isn't as passionate a speaker as some others, but he is very competent, and it shows.

[Pastiche423]

33. Competent to whom?

The repugs?

Btw, it was Bill DLCer Richardson that chose him tospeak for the Dems(???).

[AzDar]

36. When practically the first sentence out of his mouth was " I was a

Missionary", I threw up my hands in disgust. So effing WHAT?
As the wise Senator from Massachusetts said: "We will never get anywhere trying to be Republican-Lite" (paraphrasing, but EVER so true!). Don't try to appease these monsters...kick their ass with the fiery TRUTH!!!

[MadHound]

38. Yeah, but if you stuck around for the rest of the speech,

You would have found a critique of the Bush administration as damning as anything utter in the Senate or Congress. Sure, he mentioned his faith, he spoke in a humble, folksy, Mister Rogers sort of way. But you know what, this speech was designed to sway those red state swing voters, and this is a great tactic to do so. And frankly, I think that it was a success.

Sure, we could have put a firebreather out on the stump, but those swing voters would have turned them off and gone to bed. And today, all we would have heard in the MSM and RW echo chamber is how devisive and partisan the Democrats are. Instead, the pundits have nothing to bitch about, and thr message got through.

[AzDar]

42. Actually, I did watch the whole thing. He was far too gentle in his

criticisms...now is not the time for subtlety,IMHO.
He reminded me of a sloganeering ("There's a better way".. )Televangelist.
The fact that he has been in office only 18 days reeked of " Jeebus Christ, we-need-ourselves-a-God-lovin'-milquetoast-non-offensive-Democratic Leader..STAT..Can't find one, 'cause we all know Democrats worship Satan, and kill the Unborn...What's that? Harry Reid? Too radical..We'll have to get that new Virginia Governor, the one with the eyebrow..."

[MadHound]

49. Well, I live in a red state,

And while I'm a tree hugging, long haired back to nature verging on the border of insanity leftist, I realize that he hit just the right note with the people of my state, and probably most of the other red state swing voters also. Yes, I know, it is intensly soul satisfying to pick these people up and shake some sense into them, but if you do so, they just shut down and go vote Republican. And I know it is a pain in the ass having to pander to these peoples' sensibilities. But the party has got to do that if they want any sort of hope of retaking Congress and the Senate. There will be times and places for the firebreathing rhetoric, but I think that this was the right speaker, speech and tone for the audience. Just my opinion:shrug:

[AzDar]

56. That's cool. But remember, one person's "fire-breathing rhetoric",

is another's "plain ol' truth". Like Harry Truman said.."I don't give 'em hell; I just tell the TRUTH, and they THINK it's hell!"

[mitchum]

43. "Our" party's corporate masters

[iconoclastNYC]

44. Pelosi and Reid

Two sides of the same DLC-establishment coin.

[Justice Is Comin]

46. It should have been Murtha

he's nailed them on Iraq. That's what they want to talk about--"security"? Let's talk. It should have been John.

[iconoclastNYC]

48. He would have been better.

Also better would have been : Gore, Kerry, Kennedy, Feingold, or Dean.

But they chose to go with a DLC posterboy and plug thier "red state" gimmicks.

[paulk]

58. Kaine did a good job of reaching out

to the voters we (by that I mean Democrats, which may of may not apply to many of the members of DU), are going to need voting for us if we plan on winning back the Congress in 2006.

----------------

the negative responses to Kaine's speech which are cluttering up this website show

how far outside of political reality many, if not most, of DU's members are.


------------------

I'm glad whoever made the decision to send out Kaine isn't listening to this place.

this place is la la land.