Is there "redemption" for any candidates that voted for the war?

[kentuck]

Are you willing to forgive those that admit they were wrong to vote for the war? Or do you consider that a fatal flaw in their candidacy? If they admit their mistake, no matter if they were "lied to" or they simply think the Administration is running the war the "wrong way", are you willing to forgive and forget and move forward? Or do you expect something further from these candidates?

[JanusAscending]

1. Yes! /n/t

[treestar]

2. Having the courage to admit a mistake these days

Would be enough for me.

Even a repuke can be forgiven, though I don't see any of them ever admit to a mistake. (That is weakness, you know. :sarcasm: )

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Repudiating their vote vociferously would be a good start. n/t

[Az]

4. I am more angry at the system

The representitives we have are the results of the system. If the system does not allow for intelligent discussion of difficult issues then we are well and truly boned. As it stands now the way everyone comes to know anything of import has to be contained within a 15 second sound bite or the media doesn't know what to do with it. Fix the system and then we can talk about the candidates. Till then they are just representitive of the system.

[Lautremont]

5. An honest mea culpa and an attempt to explain exactly why

they voted as they did might help - with the understanding, of course, that "I was lied to and didn't bother doing any further research" won't do it.

[paulk]

6. yes

it's only at places like DU that this is still even a topic for discussion.

A discussion that helps, of course, perpetuate the right wing spin that the IWR was a vote "for the war".

[XemaSab]

7. Fatal flaw

The war was obviously stupid from the get-go. Not only that, but Bush was obviously lying from the get-go.

Not being able to recognize this stupidity disqualifies anyone from presidency, in my book.

[timtom]

24. Hear! Hear!

And THAT is the deal breaker for me, as well!

[blm]

8. An added URGENCY and focus to bring it to an end would seem appropriate.

It also seems to me that Senators have known since early this year that Iraq was in Civil War, but too many refused to acknowledge it publically when they were asked to vote on withdrawal in June. Some are still refusing to actually say CIVIL WAR, knowing full-well that a new IWR would need to be drawn up immediately by the Senate.

[hlthe2b]

9. Good question....

Somewhat of an analogy, albeit at a much lower level: I have many friends and colleagues at CDC and within the HHS upper echelons who had to oversee the National (largely very unsuccessful) smallpox vaccination campaign for health care workers. Now, most all of those with indepth knowledge of smallpox (some who had worked on smallpox eradication four decades ago)questioned the appropriateness of this, the underlying "risk" and most of all, the risk-benefit--given the potential serious complications of smallpox vaccination. Yet, the administration effectively silenced them with ominous statements regarding the intelligence that only THEY had access to. Now, these same friends/colleagues are ashamed that they went along, but in retrospect I doubt any would feel free to counter such ominous claims were it to happen again. This is the price we all pay, when our government lies to us and exploits fear for their own purposes

[xchrom]

10. it depends on what the response to the ''surge'' is.

a new build up of troops seems inevitable right now.

i can -- or i am willing to look past a lot of things -- but this war -- the lies it was based on -- the money it's costing us -- and so on -- mitigates my ''forgiveness''.

i want to see the party firmly embrace and move toward governing for the common good, the health and welfare of our country and the world.

stop the economic war on the people -- stop the real war in iraq -- see where i'm going here?

[nradisic]

11. NO

[laconicsax]

12. On one condition:

The vote for war wasn't making one mistake, it was making several decisions.

-It was deciding that the President should have the power to arbitrarily make war without congressional oversight.

-It was deciding that somehow granting those powers (past those of the Gulf of Tonkin resolution) isn't somehow supporting the decision to go to war.

-It was deciding to ignore information that was and still is available to everyone that undermined the key points of *'s case for war and claiming instead that Congress has access to special information that somehow contradicted the facts.

-It was deciding that even though the case for war was changed from nukes to biological and chemical to he's a bad person as the immediate evidence against each case mounted, * knows best because he's the Resident and on 9/11, everything changed.

-It was deciding that even though Blix's team was finding no WMDs, no evidence of them, and was asking for more time to continue the search, doing what's in *'s best interest is paramount.

If those who voted for the war are willing to admit that they made all of decisions and that those choices were wrong, then it's forgivable.

[AlienAvatar]

13. I'll hold my nose, but I can't forgive

I'd vote for any democratic candidate over any republican but with less enthusiasm than in the past.I think this Iraq "war", and all its' ramifications, is one of the worst events in this countrys history. Most, not all, democrats have been positively gutless. Toadies, bootlickers, cowards, stupid,... you name it. Most of the world, many in this country, and most on DU, clearly recognized the wrongness and insanity of this administrations run up to war. Even I saw it. Plain as day, it was wrong. Everything about it stunk! I have a real difficult time with their excuses of being "misled".

What the hell was wrong with our Democratic leaders. I wish we could replace 90% of them with real leaders. That's going to take time, and in the meantime I guess we're left with little choice but to vote for them again.

I even hate the word "misled". And all the other euphemisms they use for LIE. Politicians and mainstream press almost never use that plain word. They're afraid, and it really pisses me off in a big way.

Congress as a whole failed miserably. Sadly, I really think most of our government is corrupt or incompetent. I distrust some more than others, but there are very few I trust. I don't think we have any Paul Wellstones right now. I shouldn't say that, I guess, Kucinich comes to mind but he's not going to be President. Byrd stood up. I'm sure there are others I can't think of now, but not many. Not enough.

On edit: I had the opportunity to see Sen. Byrd when he "stood up" against the war. I remember that. I thought he was positively heroic and inspiring at that moment. He was also tragic. He knew he had little support and was fighting a lost cause. He got a whole lot of respect from me for that.

[rebel with a cause]

29. Durbin stood up and voted no.

I knew a few weeks after 9/11 that bush was planning on invading Iraq, and I was not alone. I started speaking out against it then and was threatened and told "love it or leave it." I laughed in their faces, I had been told this same thing when young and speaking out against Vietnam and now as an old woman speaking out against another unnecessary war. I live in the midwest, and if I knew just by understanding history and recognizing the way the nation and its government was being changed by the manipulation of facts, how did those in the congress not know? If I knew bush was going to take us to this war, why did they not know?

I can forgive them, but I cannot forget. And for some of them, that means I will not support them. I know others who feel the same way. And if the repug candidates are who I think they will be, the democrats will need all the support they can get.

This is a time to think deeply about who is chosen to be the democrat candidate. It is not a time to pick one because he had dimples or nice hair. It is not because he says all the right things for today, and changes his words to say the right things for tomorrow. It should not be someone who was too timid to stand their ground against the right wingers.

"Dethrone the cheerleader, save the world." 2008

[QuestionAll...]

45. if only i could recommend a particular post in a thread.

this would would get a vote from me.
I hear you so clearly.

[Kahuna]

14. I can forgive them if they admit they were wrong. I just wonder..

how they can forgive themselves. I don't know how I would live with myself knowing I was gullible enough (according to Hillary) to trust the chimp that stole the 2000 election in broad open daylight with such power.

[AlienAvatar]

16. gullible, ...sheesh!

That's another thing that gets me about these guys. We're a nation of 300,000,000 people. We have 100 senators. Hearing them say they were "gullible" is completely unacceptable as an excuse. I wasn't "gullible", and I'm just some guy with internet access. They are not allowed to be "gullible" in my opinion. If they are gullible, then they have no business being a United States Senator.

[Kahuna]

23. Not only that, but how about the millions of emails, letters and calls

they received from people like us, telling them that they couldn't trust bush as far as they could throw him? There is little excuse in my book for what they did.

[JVS]

15. Why should there be?

If I wanted stupid warmongers, I could just vote Republican.

[Pastiche423]

17. NO!

If I, a lowly citizen, and ten million people all over the war not only knew the war would be wrong, but protested months before Shock and Awe, then there is no acceptable reason why some Dems voted for it.

[QuestionAll...]

18. No

too serious a matter.
many knew the Iraq war was based on lies, millions demonstrated, hundreds, thousands wrote articles and screamed at their televisions...

those candidates had to be so out of it and stupid to make such an error or

personally or professionally gained by the war,

both are unforgiveable.

no second chance for even a second, imho. fire the bastards. drag them thru the streets naked.

[AlienAvatar]

Now we're talking

"drag them through the streets naked". I like that a lot! They fully deserve this and more. Many, many, lives have been lost or ruined because of their cowardice. They could have tried to do their job and they didn't. Cowards.

I can only think of 3 reasons for their inaction. They were lazy, they were cowards, or they were stupid. It's pathetic that one or more of these words can be applied to almost all of our present "leaders".

[TahitiNut]

19. I'd say repentance needs to be accompanied by penance.

It's not enough to say "I was wrong." The person would have to show, by their actions, that they were working to correct the abysmal conditions created by such an atrocity. Lip service ain't enough ... nor is superficial, pro forma behavior to oppose it.

[rebel with a cause]

30. And penance (taken action) should not be

Saying the right thing so they can run for president.

Gee, I just accidently allowed someone to kill a lot of people. If I act like I'm sorry, could I please be promoted.:sarcasm:

[leftofthedial]

20. I will not support a candidate in the primaries who supported the war

I think the Democrats can and should do better.

But I will vote for whomever the Democrats nominate.

[lakeguy]

21. nope. to me it seemed that many votes were cast in favor

because they were afraid of being seen as "weak" on terror and feared re-election trouble (same with the patriot act). i'm not saying everyone who voted for war is in this boat, but the ones that are, i can never forgive.

[Marr]

22. Politicians are empty suits. They can "redeem" themselves, sure-

as much as any self-serving careerist can. They simply need to display a loyalty to the public interest over their corporate interests for an extended period of time. It needs to be sharp and, I'd say, pointedly aggressive towards their former masters.

If, for instance, Hillary Clinton was willing to make it her number one priority to end all corporate profits from military activity- not a song and dance now- I mean taking actual concrete steps to pass such legislation- that would go some ways toward redemption.

She'd never have my *trust*, but no politician ever gets that from me.

[Solly Mack]

25. Iraq was and remains criminal

Any mea culpa that expresses less than that isn't worth my time hearing.

I contemptuously snarl at the framing of Iraq in terms of "mistakes" made...and I'm doubting that will ever change.

As a family directly affected by the lies and the crimes of my government regarding Iraq, it's going to take a lot more than "I made a mistake"...a lot more. In fact, "I made a mistake" isn't even acceptable.

[AlienAvatar]

39. You're absolutely right

This whole endeavor was and is criminal. Morally and legally criminal.

In a perfect world Bush and his handlers should be charged and convicted of capital crimes and spend the rest of their hateful lives in maximum security. Just like any other mass murderer.
Congress was absolutely complicit in the crime and should face the same or similar charges. I know that sounds ridiculously radical to some, but, in my heart of hearts this is what I believe should happen. Of course it will never happen. Not even close.

Their excuse was they were misled, and or, made a "mistake". I don't believe either for a second. These people are not dumb. They made no mistakes. They knew exactly what was going on and what they were doing. They were looking out for their own self interests and absolutely nothing else. And like I said earlier, tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of lives have been lost or ruined because of what they ALLOWED to happen. If there is such a thing as mortal sin, these people have a huge mortal sin on their souls.

[blues90]

26. Absolutely no

I'll tell you why .
If the people knew that this attack was the wrong thing to do well before this attack and got out in great numbers to protest it in 2003 then it stands to reason that the politicians had to know as well , if they did not know they they were not paying attention or ignored the will of the people , at least half of the people .

I feel they should have waited and investigated all the info that was there to tell them Iraq did not have WMD's .

This leaves me to believe they voted yes on this attack that they called a war and did not even ask about or care about the said 9/11 leader Bin . So they voted for strictly political reasons for their own interests .

This is one reason more than ever before I have no faith in any politician , they are in diconnect with the reality of the world as we the citizen know it and are in a bubble of their own . Many politicians have made a fortune in the last 6 years and many have a past now of shady deals and we still have not found out everything .

I am a democrat and I cannot understand for the life of me why even though in the minority why even dems voted for this war . Kerry with his I voted but did not know , well he should have known and I voted for Kerry in 2004 .

[niyad]

27. I would have to hold my nose and vote for a "d" before any "r"--but the ultimate deal breaker for me

is the torture bill. NOBODY who voted for the torture bill, as my dem senator did, would get a dollar, a moment of my time, or my vote, EVER. I told my idiot that, told him that WHOEVER the dems ran in the primary against him would get my vote, that he is a total disgrace.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. The problem is, their votes weren't a "mistake".

However much they may bleat about being lied to, and complain about the "failed policies", now that it's fashionable and politically acceptable to be against the war, they voted for it with full knowledge of what it entailed at a time when it was politically risky to not vote for it.

Or, if they cling to excuse that they "didn't know" that Bush intended to go to war and that he was lying through his smirk, then they are too stupid to hold public office of any kind.

[HardRocker05]

47. Correct; they knew exactly what they were doing. that's the problem. nt

[NoPasaran]

31. Yes

But only if they buy me a pony.

[LWolf]

32. That depends.

Forgive, move forward? Sure. Forget? No. "Forgetting" a politician's record is rank folly, imo. Vote to put them in the WH? No way.

I can forgive someone's error or stupidity without choosing to trust them again with power. I can move forward and work with them again, hoping that the stupidity or error doesn't occur again without putting them in a position to make that mistake again.

[NNN0LHI]

33. I forgive easily. I don't forget so easily though n/t

[rebel with a cause]

34. I am known as being

as stubborn as a donkey and having the memory of an elephant. B-)

[NNN0LHI]

36. Bad combination...

...for somebody.

:o

Don

[eridani]

35. Yes, but not to the extent of being first choice in a primary n/t

[Individualist]

37. No excuse for ignorance or complicity

As to the former, the truth was out there for anyone who wanted to know about it prior to the invasion.

[Odin2005]

38. I care more about what they plan on doing NOW.

A hell of a lot has changed since '03. If I had to choose between a Progressive who originally voted for the war and a centrist who voted against against it I'll take the progressive canidate.

[Zodiak]

43. Was there a centrist that voted against it?

I doubt it.

[Kickin_Donkey]

40. It's a non-issue ...

Kerry voted for the 2002 Iraq War Resolution. He won the Democratic nomination for president in 2004 and the vast majority of us on DU, presumably, voted for him.

So what's your point?

[FreeStateDemocrat]

41. Too huge a lapse in basic judgment to be put in the ultimate position of critical decision making.

At the time even I really didn't think they would be dumb enough to actually begin an invasion, I mistakenly believed it was only a bluff to whip Saddam into total compliance with UN resolutions.

[LynnTheDem]

42. No.

HELL NO.

I knew. I bothered to take the fucking time to find the facts. BEFORE bush illegally waged his supreme crime hitleresque war of aggression against the nation of Iraq.

If *I* could do that -and I could and did- then the goddamn government officials of the United States of America bloody damn well could. And many did.

Those who didn't, didn't bother to spend 1 fucking day looking into the FACTS before agreeing to send Americans to kill & die for bullshit.

That is unforgiveable.

Period.

[Beelzebud]

44. Yes. All they have to do is admit they're wrong, and push for an immediate pull out.

[HardRocker05]

46. 'fraid not. IWR was The Test; they failed. nt

[bklyncowgirl]

48. Voting for the IWR indicates to me a lack of judgement and/or courage

That puts a big black mark against a candidate's name as far as I am concerned but almost any black mark can be overcome by the candidate provided that he or she has admitted his or her mistake and has been working to get us out of this mess. A little sincerity with the admission would go a long way as well as a history of generally sound judgement.

Yes, it's unfair. Some politicians didn't have to actually vote--too bad--others voted against this war. Too bad, voting on tough decisions is what they get paid for. People who were candidates at the time e.g. Obama, Dean voiced strong opposition despite the risk of being seen as soft.